Genesis Correlates With Science

[Michelle420]

"sceince"?

You mean a spiritualist meeting to receive spirit communications?

Where you speak to relatives who have passed on?

Sounds neat.

Like this:

Hillary Clinton says imaginary talks just ‘intellectual exercise’, The Providence Journal Bulletin, Tuesday, 6/25/96, p. A3. “Hillary Rodham Clinton said yesterday her imaginary conversations with Eleanor Roosevelt were merely an ‘intellectual exercise’ … Trying to douse what she called ‘sensational’ speculation, the first lady rejected inferences that psychic researcher Jean Houston, who led her in several White House sessions, was her ‘spiritual adviser’.”

“In a written statement, Mrs. Clinton was firm in her denial that there were any psychic or religious overtones to the sessions. ‘The bottom line is: I have no spiritual advisers or any other alternatives to my deeply held Methodist faith and traditions upon which I have relied since childhood.’ ”

“Mrs. Clinton met with Houston several times from late 1994 until March of this year, according to a new book [by Bob Woodward, 'The Choice'] that says Houston led the first lady through imaginary conversations with her hero, Mrs. Roosevelt and Indian leader … Ghandi … Mrs. Clinton said she engaged in hours of ‘freewheeling discussions’ with Houston.”
Say Anything Hillary Clinton Held Seances In The White House » Say Anything



Heck...if it's good enough for you, and for Hill....maybe I should try it!

Wouldn't that be séance?

(Psstttt....I'm funnin' with Ms. Truthy! Shhhh.....)

Yeah I caught that, I was just making light of it to, a little humor

 

[PoliticalChic]

....nor of the success of socialism...but you buy that like it was on sale.

True?

you dont get to say what I believe.

there is no proof god exsists.


I am not a socialist Im a capitalist

It all depends on what a person os saying "God" is.

Since there are so many religions and spiritual beliefs, it is entirely possible for one of those persons or factions to believe in God as Love or some other expression that is powerful but not incarnate.

There is proof that religion exists and some people worship religion as God.

When we get into semantics and deeper beliefs behind some specific religious beliefs about God from some religions or people then you will get some stories that have no proof and no way of validating it.

"...no proof and no way of validating it."

Oh, yeah????


Well, then....how do you explain this, smarty pant????


a. Susan Sarandon: ”He is a community organizer like Jesus was, and now we’re a community and he can organize us.” The Hill, January 21, 2009

b. David Cordero, 24, made the sculpture for his senior show after noticing all the attention Obama has received: "All of this is a response to what I've been witnessing and hearing, this idea that Barack is sort of a potential savior that might come and absolve the country of all its sins," Cordero said. Sculpture of Obama as Jesus causes stir - politics - Decision '08 - Barack Obama News - msnbc.com

c. Obama told the estimated crowd of 450 people that her husband is "the kind of president this country deserves. "
Obama closed by asking the crowd three times: "Are you in?"
She responded to her own question by saying: "Because I am so in."

"We have an amazing story to tell," she said. "This president has brought us out of the dark and into the light."
Source: Michelle Obama, Campaign rally. April 17, 2012.

d. In its November 22, 2010 issue, Obama has been shown by Newsweek on its cover page with multiple arms balancing several policy issues while raising his left leg mimicking the cosmic dance of the Hindu deity; considered a manifestation of Lord Shiva.
... Newsweek has named Obama "god of all things" on its cover.
SOURCE: Times of India (November 20, 2010).


e. . The White House released a photo of Obama with a halo around his head:
Photostream: Business and Pleasure in August | The White House
Photostream: Business and Pleasure in August | The White House


Take that.....

...now bend at the knees.

 

[Michelle420]

you dont get to say what I believe.

there is no proof god exsists.


I am not a socialist Im a capitalist

It all depends on what a person os saying "God" is.

Since there are so many religions and spiritual beliefs, it is entirely possible for one of those persons or factions to believe in God as Love or some other expression that is powerful but not incarnate.

There is proof that religion exists and some people worship religion as God.

When we get into semantics and deeper beliefs behind some specific religious beliefs about God from some religions or people then you will get some stories that have no proof and no way of validating it.

"...no proof and no way of validating it."

Oh, yeah????


Well, then....how do you explain this, smarty pant????


a. Susan Sarandon: ”He is a community organizer like Jesus was, and now we’re a community and he can organize us.” The Hill, January 21, 2009

b. David Cordero, 24, made the sculpture for his senior show after noticing all the attention Obama has received: "All of this is a response to what I've been witnessing and hearing, this idea that Barack is sort of a potential savior that might come and absolve the country of all its sins," Cordero said. Sculpture of Obama as Jesus causes stir - politics - Decision '08 - Barack Obama News - msnbc.com

c. Obama told the estimated crowd of 450 people that her husband is "the kind of president this country deserves. "
Obama closed by asking the crowd three times: "Are you in?"
She responded to her own question by saying: "Because I am so in."

"We have an amazing story to tell," she said. "This president has brought us out of the dark and into the light."
Source: Michelle Obama, Campaign rally. April 17, 2012.

d. In its November 22, 2010 issue, Obama has been shown by Newsweek on its cover page with multiple arms balancing several policy issues while raising his left leg mimicking the cosmic dance of the Hindu deity; considered a manifestation of Lord Shiva.
... Newsweek has named Obama "god of all things" on its cover.
SOURCE: Times of India (November 20, 2010).


e. . The White House released a photo of Obama with a halo around his head:
Photostream: Business and Pleasure in August | The White House
Photostream: Business and Pleasure in August | The White House


Take that.....

...now bend at the knees.

Clarify what it is you are asking and I will do my best to answer you with my point of view.

 

[NYcarbineer]

According to Genesis, God created Day and Night on the first day.

Day and Night are a function of the earth's rotation relative to the sun,

so according to Genesis God created the earth and sun on the first day...

...even if Genesis shortly thereafter may seem to contradict that.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/science-and-technology/277621-light-sun-and-the-eye-in-genesis.html

Creation myths tend to follow a common sequence of events because that sequence of events made the most sense to the primitive mind.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I thought most antagonists against the Genesis criticise its measurement of time, like in days, as opposed to years and longer. The order of events may have been accepted.

I have a theory, that if you take the Genesis age of the universe and compare it with the Big Bang age of the universe, then you can resolve this descrepancy by applying the Doppler shift factor or Einstein's relativistic factor (sqrt(1-v^2/c^2)), or a linear combination of them, and tweak their velocity parameters to obtain a match.

Then we can ask the question, what physical meaning this distortion of time means.

Or you could recognize that Genesis was written by men of relatively primitive scientific knowledge for whom the notion of a billions year old planet was well beyond their grasp.

 

[Jimmy_Jam]

As much as I may disagree with PC on some issues, I actually can go along with this last post, although perhaps not for the same exact reasons.

I've always been an admirer of Carl Jung. Jung asserted that humans have a natural religious drive, and that reverence of the state replaces reverence of a deity. Replacement of God with the state in mass society causes a dislocation of the religious drive, resulting in the same level of fanaticism associated with the Church-States of the Dark Ages. The more the state is worshiped, the more freedom and morality are suppressed, leaving the individual increasingly marginalized.

I understand that there are liberals who do no exhibit the kind of state-worship that Jung refers to. I am trying to avoid sweeping generalizations. Jung saw the rise of the Nazi Party first-hand, and therefore probably has a more extreme view of state-worship. It is an astute position nonetheless.

Sources:
Jung, Carl (1960). Psychology and Religion. The Vail-Ballou Press ic.
Jung, Carl (2006). The Undiscovered Self: The Problem of the Individual in Modern Society. New American Library.

 

[Michelle420]

Capitalism is not a religious belief. Socialism on the other hand believes in the faith that the government is a substitute for God.

It has nothing to do with being for or against religion.

It is a Political economic theory that is anti capitalism.

There are different types of socialism as well.

You can be a religious or spiritual person and still support a form of socialism.

As much as I may disagree with PC on some issues, I actually can go along with this last post, although perhaps not for the same exact reasons.

I've always been an admirer of Carl Jung. Jung asserted that humans have a natural religious drive, and that reverence of the state replaces reverence of a deity. Replacement of God with the state in mass society causes a dislocation of the religious drive, resulting in the same level of fanaticism associated with the Church-States of the Dark Ages. The more the state is worshiped, the more freedom and morality are suppressed, leaving the individual increasingly marginalized.

I understand that there are liberals who do no exhibit the kind of state-worship that Jung refers to. I am trying to avoid sweeping generalizations. Jung saw the rise of the Nazi Party first-hand, and therefore probably has a more extreme view of state-worship. It is an astute position nonetheless.

Sources:
Jung, Carl (1960). Psychology and Religion. The Vail-Ballou Press ic.
Jung, Carl (2006). The Undiscovered Self: The Problem of the Individual in Modern Society. New American Library.

While anyone of any politicial leaning can make an idol or God of anything material or incarnate, it does not mean it IS the case that socialism is anti-God, anti-religion or spirituality.

Socialism is a political economical theory people can be religious or non religious and support it

Capitalism is also economical political and so people can support it and be religious or non religious.

 

[PoliticalChic]

It all depends on what a person os saying "God" is.

Since there are so many religions and spiritual beliefs, it is entirely possible for one of those persons or factions to believe in God as Love or some other expression that is powerful but not incarnate.

There is proof that religion exists and some people worship religion as God.

When we get into semantics and deeper beliefs behind some specific religious beliefs about God from some religions or people then you will get some stories that have no proof and no way of validating it.

"...no proof and no way of validating it."

Oh, yeah????


Well, then....how do you explain this, smarty pant????


a. Susan Sarandon: ”He is a community organizer like Jesus was, and now we’re a community and he can organize us.” The Hill, January 21, 2009

b. David Cordero, 24, made the sculpture for his senior show after noticing all the attention Obama has received: "All of this is a response to what I've been witnessing and hearing, this idea that Barack is sort of a potential savior that might come and absolve the country of all its sins," Cordero said. Sculpture of Obama as Jesus causes stir - politics - Decision '08 - Barack Obama News - msnbc.com

c. Obama told the estimated crowd of 450 people that her husband is "the kind of president this country deserves. "
Obama closed by asking the crowd three times: "Are you in?"
She responded to her own question by saying: "Because I am so in."

"We have an amazing story to tell," she said. "This president has brought us out of the dark and into the light."
Source: Michelle Obama, Campaign rally. April 17, 2012.

d. In its November 22, 2010 issue, Obama has been shown by Newsweek on its cover page with multiple arms balancing several policy issues while raising his left leg mimicking the cosmic dance of the Hindu deity; considered a manifestation of Lord Shiva.
... Newsweek has named Obama "god of all things" on its cover.
SOURCE: Times of India (November 20, 2010).


e. . The White House released a photo of Obama with a halo around his head:
Photostream: Business and Pleasure in August | The White House
Photostream: Business and Pleasure in August | The White House


Take that.....

...now bend at the knees.

Clarify what it is you are asking and I will do my best to answer you with my point of view.

To the Left, Obama is God
It's tongue-in-cheek, drift.....

 

[dblack]

Might be good fun to do a similar analysis of "The Three Little Pigs". Prolly correlates with science a good deal as well.

 

[Jimmy_Jam]

Capitalism is not a religious belief. Socialism on the other hand believes in the faith that the government is a substitute for God.

It has nothing to do with being for or against religion.

It is a Political economic theory that is anti capitalism.

There are different types of socialism as well.

You can be a religious or spiritual person and still support a form of socialism.

As much as I may disagree with PC on some issues, I actually can go along with this last post, although perhaps not for the same exact reasons.

I've always been an admirer of Carl Jung. Jung asserted that humans have a natural religious drive, and that reverence of the state replaces reverence of a deity. Replacement of God with the state in mass society causes a dislocation of the religious drive, resulting in the same level of fanaticism associated with the Church-States of the Dark Ages. The more the state is worshiped, the more freedom and morality are suppressed, leaving the individual increasingly marginalized.

I understand that there are liberals who do no exhibit the kind of state-worship that Jung refers to. I am trying to avoid sweeping generalizations. Jung saw the rise of the Nazi Party first-hand, and therefore probably has a more extreme view of state-worship. It is an astute position nonetheless.

Sources:
Jung, Carl (1960). Psychology and Religion. The Vail-Ballou Press ic.
Jung, Carl (2006). The Undiscovered Self: The Problem of the Individual in Modern Society. New American Library.

While anyone of any politicial leaning can make an idol or God of anything material or incarnate, it does not mean it IS the case that socialism is anti-God, anti-religion or spirituality.

Socialism is a political economical theory people can be religious or non religious and support it

Capitalism is also economical political and so people can support it and be religious or non religious.

I didn't even mention socialism.

 

[Michelle420]

"...no proof and no way of validating it."

Oh, yeah????


Well, then....how do you explain this, smarty pant????


a. Susan Sarandon: ”He is a community organizer like Jesus was, and now we’re a community and he can organize us.” The Hill, January 21, 2009

b. David Cordero, 24, made the sculpture for his senior show after noticing all the attention Obama has received: "All of this is a response to what I've been witnessing and hearing, this idea that Barack is sort of a potential savior that might come and absolve the country of all its sins," Cordero said. Sculpture of Obama as Jesus causes stir - politics - Decision '08 - Barack Obama News - msnbc.com

c. Obama told the estimated crowd of 450 people that her husband is "the kind of president this country deserves. "
Obama closed by asking the crowd three times: "Are you in?"
She responded to her own question by saying: "Because I am so in."

"We have an amazing story to tell," she said. "This president has brought us out of the dark and into the light."
Source: Michelle Obama, Campaign rally. April 17, 2012.

d. In its November 22, 2010 issue, Obama has been shown by Newsweek on its cover page with multiple arms balancing several policy issues while raising his left leg mimicking the cosmic dance of the Hindu deity; considered a manifestation of Lord Shiva.
... Newsweek has named Obama "god of all things" on its cover.
SOURCE: Times of India (November 20, 2010).


e. . The White House released a photo of Obama with a halo around his head:
Photostream: Business and Pleasure in August | The White House
Photostream: Business and Pleasure in August | The White House


Take that.....

...now bend at the knees.

Clarify what it is you are asking and I will do my best to answer you with my point of view.

To the Left, Obama is God
It's tongue-in-cheek, drift.....

Ahh I got ya, my apologies.

 

[Michelle420]

It has nothing to do with being for or against religion.

It is a Political economic theory that is anti capitalism.

There are different types of socialism as well.

You can be a religious or spiritual person and still support a form of socialism.

As much as I may disagree with PC on some issues, I actually can go along with this last post, although perhaps not for the same exact reasons.

I've always been an admirer of Carl Jung. Jung asserted that humans have a natural religious drive, and that reverence of the state replaces reverence of a deity. Replacement of God with the state in mass society causes a dislocation of the religious drive, resulting in the same level of fanaticism associated with the Church-States of the Dark Ages. The more the state is worshiped, the more freedom and morality are suppressed, leaving the individual increasingly marginalized.

I understand that there are liberals who do no exhibit the kind of state-worship that Jung refers to. I am trying to avoid sweeping generalizations. Jung saw the rise of the Nazi Party first-hand, and therefore probably has a more extreme view of state-worship. It is an astute position nonetheless.

Sources:
Jung, Carl (1960). Psychology and Religion. The Vail-Ballou Press ic.
Jung, Carl (2006). The Undiscovered Self: The Problem of the Individual in Modern Society. New American Library.

While anyone of any politicial leaning can make an idol or God of anything material or incarnate, it does not mean it IS the case that socialism is anti-God, anti-religion or spirituality.

Socialism is a political economical theory people can be religious or non religious and support it

Capitalism is also economical political and so people can support it and be religious or non religious.

I didn't even mention socialism.

Does that mean it's off the table of discussion for you in reference to what you did say?

I was just taking the dialogue further by bringing into statements that were made in this thread it seemed like it could be contrasted with the ideology you shared.

I am not asking you sarcastically I just like taking discussions deeper sometimes.

 

[logical4u]

As far as your OP, science falsifies the bible immediately. There was no light in the universe until 300,000 years after the Big Bang. In other words, matter and energy were formed before light. Nice try though. Another pathetic try at vindicating a fairy tale.

Here's a big bang.....see any light?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg5z1ZAETcA]Fallout 3 Megaton Explosion at night - YouTube[/ame]

Invalid use of inductive reasoning, and a composition fallacy. The Big Bang and a bang that happens to be big by subjective standards are categorically separated by the nature of what banged, why, when, and how, making the two explosions fundamentally different, but namely and with specific regard to this conversation, there would have been no light at the Big Bang, given that there were no electrons within orbits around atoms to emit light, which didn't form until shortly after the bang, and which didn't start producing light until the first stars 300,000 years after the Big Bang. Until then, the universe was opaque. As for the composition fallacy: what goes for an explosion within an already settled universe with physical laws, forces, matter and energy, does not also go for an explosion of that actual universe itself. In fact, it wasn't an explosion,so much as an expansion, which actually created the forces and energy that would allow an explosion to even create light. Again, your reasoning is invalid and your conception of science has been maladapted.

Where did the "physical laws" originate?

 

[logical4u]

there is no proof god exsists.

that means the bible is fiction when it talk about god.


there is some historical stories in the bible but NO proof of god.

Who else gave us "laws" that man could actually follow and be at peace?

Not laws that oppressed people, not laws that were specific for "different" classes or different peoples, but for all people to follow, and by following them could live in peace.

 

[Jimmy_Jam]

While anyone of any politicial leaning can make an idol or God of anything material or incarnate, it does not mean it IS the case that socialism is anti-God, anti-religion or spirituality.

Socialism is a political economical theory people can be religious or non religious and support it

Capitalism is also economical political and so people can support it and be religious or non religious.

I didn't even mention socialism.

Does that mean it's off the table of discussion for you in reference to what you did say?

I was just taking the dialogue further by bringing into statements that were made in this thread it seemed like it could be contrasted with the ideology you shared.

I am not asking you sarcastically I just like taking discussions deeper sometimes.

Okay. Fair enough. I am accustomed to USMB members trying to sweep my views up into broad partisan brushes. I am always open to deeper discussions.

But to make it clear, I was using Jung's position on state-worship as a supporting premise to the notion that humans have a religious drive, and that displacement of that drive tends, psychologically, to lead to compensatory drive to worship something else. Sometimes it is science, sometimes it is the state, sometimes it is celebrities. Jung held that it is a basic psychological drive. Are there individuals that are above this drive? Maybe, but I happen to accept Jung's premise that it is pretty pervasive.

 

[logical4u]

there is no proof god exsists.

that means the bible is fiction when it talk about god.

there is some historical stories in the bible but NO proof of god.

Actually, there is lots of proof.

Let's remember that prior to this decade, atoms had never been seen, yet indirect evidence was accepted as proof.

I'd say the same is true for the concept under discussion.


Unless you have some 'proof' of the non-existence.

indirect SCIENTIFIC evidence was accepted as proof?

Wishful thinking is not proof, and wishful thinking is what belief in a supernatural being following mankind around a blue marble in space is all about.

There is no proof a god exists. There is more proof that Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, and the boogeyman in the shadows exist, than there is proof a god exists.


Genesis is so childlike and unbelievable as to make people who spout off about it as fact, look stupid. The Bible is not to be taken literally. It is full of old myths, old and symbolism working through metaphors
God is a concept...a human construct.

I am unaware of anyone allowing themselves to be murdered, rather than denounce Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy or the boogeyman. Yet there have been thousands of people that would rather be murdered than deny the LORD exists. Many of them died at peace despite the terrible, torturous murders done to them. They came from all walks of life (some were even logical thinkers), from all economic status, and from all races. Please explain why people would not denounce a "myth"/"fairy tale"/"superstition".

There are documented miracles (unexplainable occurences) that seem to happen when a person of "faith" is praying for a miracle. Please explain how these things happen, since they defy scientific thought.

 

[Michelle420]

I didn't even mention socialism.

Does that mean it's off the table of discussion for you in reference to what you did say?

I was just taking the dialogue further by bringing into statements that were made in this thread it seemed like it could be contrasted with the ideology you shared.

I am not asking you sarcastically I just like taking discussions deeper sometimes.

Okay. Fair enough. I am accustomed to USMB members trying to sweep my views up into broad partisan brushes. I am always open to deeper discussions.

But to make it clear, I was using Jung's position on state-worship as a supporting premise to the notion that humans have a religious drive, and that displacement of that drive tends, psychologically, to lead to compensatory drive to worship something else. Sometimes it is science, sometimes it is the state, sometimes it is celebrities. Jung held that it is a basic psychological drive. Are there individuals that are above this drive? Maybe, but I happen to accept Jung's premise that it is pretty pervasive.

Sure I agree with that and this is why in my opinion depending on what a human being is calling God you can say there is an existence.

It would depend on what you worship.

God has been defined by many cultures and religions differently, and just like what you said some people idol worship, state worship and science worship.

 

[Michelle420]

To Jimmy Jam: do you think that under Jung's theory people can and do worship Politics as a form of religion or God?

Also can people be non religious and support a political party that is inherently religiously influenced

or can a person be of a religious persuasion and support a political party that is inherently anti religiously influenced?

 

[logical4u]

God is necessary for morality to survive.

According to you there was no morality before a god. Interesting. Or there was always morality because there was always a god. More interesting.

We know that at one point man's ancestors started to bury their dead with symbolic items...the Bear Caves in Europe. Was Jesus' dad teaching mankind how to pray at this time? Was man learning to identify himself with others...compassion?

see Dante's profile image "Thou art that"

We do know at some point mankind cared for each other because we find signs that early mankind is traveling with injured or crippled family(?). Where these people ignorant of Jesus' dad, and if so why? If man was created in a god's image, that god must have been one fucking backwards troll

1. "According to you there was no morality before a god."
This is senseless. Morality pertains to mankind.
Without God, there is no moral demand placed on mankind.

2. "We know that at one point man's ancestors ..."
The understanding of God at issue is based on the Judeo-Christian concept.

3. "...at some point mankind cared for each..."
There can be good people at any place, or time.
Morality is important as a societal aspect.
Sans morality, we can expect the law of the jungle.

4. I understand the vulgarity as your response when you can't deal with what
you realize makes sense.


5. Dennis Prager once said something along these lines on his radio program:

If there's no God - making ourselves the source of ethics for everybody, or declaring that nobody can be the source of ethics for anybody, and therefore morality is, again, purely subjective.

Abortion may be legal, and a woman’s right….but this doesn’t it is ethically right. The Greeks believed in a version of same in which they placed deformed babies on the hillside. The reason I use the Greek example of ugly children is not because we do it today, but because they had reason on their side.

Reason supports a lot of things, as for example, a very liberal position on abortion. If there is no God, "Love your neighbor as yourself" is just a good idea. That's why it is written, incidentally, in Leviticus, "Love your neighbor as yourself, I am God."
I, God, tell you to be decent to other people.

In the OT, those that rejected morality were killers or were killed.
In the NT (the New Covenant) the LORD was written onto all mens' hearts (there would be no instruction needed for this knowledge, it would already be inside each person).

Those that claim there is no "LORD" are at war with the knowledge that is in their hearts (that might be why they seem to be so cynical and mean to the rest of us).

 

[logical4u]

Like your God, energy always exists, but unlike your God, energy can be measured.

Pretend you're brighter than a second grader, i.e., brighter than you are.

Discussions require an accepted dictionary definition of terms.

For God, the definition includes always was, is, will be, i.e., omnipresent.

There is no such aspect for 'energy.'



Isn't it time for you to simply accept who your are, and what you are?

Again you show your complete ignorance of the First Law of Thermodynamics while spouting your pompous arrogant condescension.

FLoT: Energy can neither be created/increase (energy always was) nor destroyed/decrease (always will be). Since energy can neither increase nor decrease, in all its forms it will exist in the same total quantity (always remain the same).

We know energy exists because it can be measured, can God be measured?

P.S.- Always was, is, will be, means God is eternal, not omnipresent which means everywhere at the same time.

Energy can be converted, and nothing is 100% efficient (that we know). Heat is a byproduct of conversion (and in some cases that heat causes "light"). It does not exist in the same useable quantity.