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Global sea ice
- Thread starter Old Rocks
- Start date
Are they farming there yet? They were about one thousand years ago. If it gets warmer than it was during the MWP, then I might think there is a problem. Until then, let's focus on solving real problems.
UH...., yeah!!!
Arctic Harvest: Global Warming a Boon for Greenland's Farmers - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International
LMBO............I'll let Polar handle this one!!!!
Fine, one idiot's pretty much the same as another.
CrusaderFrank
Diamond Member
- May 20, 2009
- 146,760
- 69,909
- 2,330
What is it that OR and Konrad are trying to tell us with this stupid thread?
What is it that OR and Konrad are trying to tell us with this stupid thread?
LOL!!! Doesn't know what we're talking about, but feels the need to "contribute" anyway.
CrusaderFrank
Diamond Member
- May 20, 2009
- 146,760
- 69,909
- 2,330
What is it that OR and Konrad are trying to tell us with this stupid thread?
LOL!!! Doesn't know what we're talking about, but feels the need to "contribute" anyway.
Posting articles about melting ice somewhere on the planet means what?
What is it you're trying to say?
What is it that OR and Konrad are trying to tell us with this stupid thread?
LOL!!! Doesn't know what we're talking about, but feels the need to "contribute" anyway.
Posting articles about melting ice somewhere on the planet means what?
What is it you're trying to say?
What's the matter? Haven't you been paying attention? Do we have to rehash everything? You've been posting how we're wrong. Have you just been talking out your ass?!?!
CrusaderFrank
Diamond Member
- May 20, 2009
- 146,760
- 69,909
- 2,330
LOL!!! Doesn't know what we're talking about, but feels the need to "contribute" anyway.
Posting articles about melting ice somewhere on the planet means what?
What is it you're trying to say?
What's the matter? Haven't you been paying attention? Do we have to rehash everything? You've been posting how we're wrong. Have you just been talking out your ass?!?!
Is this supposed to be another "The Great Glacier Eating CO2 Spaghetti Monster is the only explanation!!" thread?
Posting articles about melting ice somewhere on the planet means what?
What is it you're trying to say?
What's the matter? Haven't you been paying attention? Do we have to rehash everything? You've been posting how we're wrong. Have you just been talking out your ass?!?!
Is this supposed to be another "The Great Glacier Eating CO2 Spaghetti Monster is the only explanation!!" thread?
Whatever you say, Frank, whatever you say.
Old Rocks
Diamond Member
- Thread starter
- #29
Show some graph and satellite animations of global sea ice...
Arctic Sea Ice News & Analysis
Polar Sea Ice Cap and Snow - Cryosphere Today
CrusaderFrank
Diamond Member
- May 20, 2009
- 146,760
- 69,909
- 2,330
And that because CO2 has increased by 100PPM lately?
Are you sure?
Are you sure?
And that because CO2 has increased by 100PPM lately?
Are you sure?
It's simple logic. If A causes an increase in B, more A will result in more B. Where's the CO2 coming from? How about answering that?
RollingThunder
Gold Member
- Mar 22, 2010
- 4,818
- 525
- 155
Ice sheets in Greenland are melting faster than ever before, according to new research.
***
Read more: Greenland Ice Sheets Melt At Record Rate In 2010 - International Business Times
Are they farming there yet? They were about one thousand years ago. If it gets warmer than it was during the MWP, then I might think there is a problem. Until then, let's focus on solving real problems.
UH...., yeah!!!
Arctic Harvest: Global Warming a Boon for Greenland's Farmers - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International
LMBO............I'll let Polar handle this one!!!!
And here's another idiotic, history distorting, denier cult myth from a couple of very clueless deniers.
Unlike you denier cult fruitcakes, I actually look things up and find out the facts. Accurate historical and scientific information on the Vikings in Greenland can be easily googled up by anyone who chooses to investigate the matter and not just believe some distorted junk from some talk radio moron.
A moderate regional warming called the MWP made the barely habitable southern fringes of Greenland, where the Gulf Stream current passes, slightly more habitable for about four centuries. Calling it 'Greenland' was just some PR cooked up by a murderer who was exiled from Iceland, which was itself already the pits where Norway exiled people for murder, so he had to go even farther out into the boonies and wound up sailing along the southern coast of this recently discovered, un-named, mostly ice covered land mass and found a somewhat sheltered fiord that was still pretty cold by our standards and barely sub-arctic in climate and vegetation. He wanted other people to join him there so he gave the place a cheery name and since it wasn't all that much different from what the folks were used to in Iceland, they fell for it and a few thousand moved there and settled in only three small areas around three fiords on the southern and southwestern coasts. Farming was difficult but these people mostly raised cattle, hunted and fished plus carrying on a lively trade with Iceland and mainland Europe. Greenland was still more than 80% ice covered during that time, just as it is now.
Greenland Vikings
(excerpts)
In 960, Thorvald Asvaldsson of Jaederen in Norway killed a man. He was forced to leave the country so he moved to northern Iceland. He had a ten year old son named Eric, later to be called Eric Röde, or Eric the Red. Eric too had a violent streak and in 982 he killed two men. Eric the Red was banished from Iceland for three years so he sailed west to find a land that Icelanders had discovered years before but knew little about. Eric searched the coast of this land and found the most hospitable area, a deep fiord on the southwestern coast. Warmer Atlantic currents met the island there and conditions were not much different than those in Iceland (trees and grasses.) He called this new land "Greenland" because he "believed more people would go thither if the country had a beautiful name," according to one of the Icelandic chronicles (Hermann, 1954) although Greenland, as a whole, could not be considered "green." Additionally, the land was not very good for farming. Nevertheless, Eric was able to draw thousands to the three areas shown in Fig. 15.
Figure 15: Ancient Norse settlements. (Source: Bryson, 1977)
The Greenland Vikings lived mostly on dairy produce and meat, primarily from cows. The vegetable diet of Greenlanders included berries, edible grasses, and seaweed, but these were inadequate even during the best harvests. During the MWP, Greenland's climate was so cold that cattle breeding and dairy farming could only be carried on in the sheltered fiords. The growing season in Greenland even then was very short. Frost typically occurred in August and the fiords froze in October. Before the year 1300, ships regularly sailed from Norway and other European countries to Greenland bringing with them timber, iron, corn, salt, and other needed items. Trade was by barter. Greenlanders offered butter, cheese, wool, and their frieze cloths, which were greatly sough after in Europe, as well as white and blue fox furs, polar bear skins, walrus and narwhal tusks, and walrus skins. In fact, two Greenland items in particular were prized by Europeans: white bears and the white falcon. These items were given as royal gifts. For instance, the King of Norway-Denmark sent a number of Greenland falcons as a gift to the King of Portugal, and received in return the gift of a cargo of wine (Stefansson, 1966.) Because of the shortage of adequate vegetables and cereal grains, and a shortage of timber to make ships, the trade link to Iceland and Europe was vital (Hermann, 1954.)
Scott A. Mandia
Professor - Physical Sciences
(In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.)
RollingThunder
Gold Member
- Mar 22, 2010
- 4,818
- 525
- 155
I could give a rats ass about the science data really.............because it doesnt matter anymore. It doesnt matter because despite the mounds of data,............so the fcukk what?
So I'll take being the retarded guy on here...
LOLOLOLOL....sums you up perfectly, kookster.
LMBO............I'll let Polar handle this one!!!!
And here's another idiotic, history distorting, denier cult myth from a couple of very clueless deniers.
Unlike you denier cult fruitcakes, I actually look things up and find out the facts. Accurate historical and scientific information on the Vikings in Greenland can be easily googled up by anyone who chooses to investigate the matter and not just believe some distorted junk from some talk radio moron.
A moderate regional warming called the MWP made the barely habitable southern fringes of Greenland, where the Gulf Stream current passes, slightly more habitable for about four centuries. Calling it 'Greenland' was just some PR cooked up by a murderer who was exiled from Iceland, which was itself already the pits where Norway exiled people for murder, so he had to go even farther out into the boonies and wound up sailing along the southern coast of this recently discovered, un-named, mostly ice covered land mass and found a somewhat sheltered fiord that was still pretty cold by our standards and barely sub-arctic in climate and vegetation. He wanted other people to join him there so he gave the place a cheery name and since it wasn't all that much different from what the folks were used to in Iceland, they fell for it and a few thousand moved there and settled in only three small areas around three fiords on the southern and southwestern coasts. Farming was difficult but these people mostly raised cattle, hunted and fished plus carrying on a lively trade with Iceland and mainland Europe. Greenland was still more than 80% ice covered during that time, just as it is now.
Greenland Vikings
(excerpts)
In 960, Thorvald Asvaldsson of Jaederen in Norway killed a man. He was forced to leave the country so he moved to northern Iceland. He had a ten year old son named Eric, later to be called Eric Röde, or Eric the Red. Eric too had a violent streak and in 982 he killed two men. Eric the Red was banished from Iceland for three years so he sailed west to find a land that Icelanders had discovered years before but knew little about. Eric searched the coast of this land and found the most hospitable area, a deep fiord on the southwestern coast. Warmer Atlantic currents met the island there and conditions were not much different than those in Iceland (trees and grasses.) He called this new land "Greenland" because he "believed more people would go thither if the country had a beautiful name," according to one of the Icelandic chronicles (Hermann, 1954) although Greenland, as a whole, could not be considered "green." Additionally, the land was not very good for farming. Nevertheless, Eric was able to draw thousands to the three areas shown in Fig. 15.
Figure 15: Ancient Norse settlements. (Source: Bryson, 1977)
The Greenland Vikings lived mostly on dairy produce and meat, primarily from cows. The vegetable diet of Greenlanders included berries, edible grasses, and seaweed, but these were inadequate even during the best harvests. During the MWP, Greenland's climate was so cold that cattle breeding and dairy farming could only be carried on in the sheltered fiords. The growing season in Greenland even then was very short. Frost typically occurred in August and the fiords froze in October. Before the year 1300, ships regularly sailed from Norway and other European countries to Greenland bringing with them timber, iron, corn, salt, and other needed items. Trade was by barter. Greenlanders offered butter, cheese, wool, and their frieze cloths, which were greatly sough after in Europe, as well as white and blue fox furs, polar bear skins, walrus and narwhal tusks, and walrus skins. In fact, two Greenland items in particular were prized by Europeans: white bears and the white falcon. These items were given as royal gifts. For instance, the King of Norway-Denmark sent a number of Greenland falcons as a gift to the King of Portugal, and received in return the gift of a cargo of wine (Stefansson, 1966.) Because of the shortage of adequate vegetables and cereal grains, and a shortage of timber to make ships, the trade link to Iceland and Europe was vital (Hermann, 1954.)
Scott A. Mandia
Professor - Physical Sciences
(In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.)
You need some more current research on the Vikings mate. They existed as a colony for over 500 years. At least 300 or those years they prospered. In other words longer then the US has been around. Nutritionally they were better off then their Dane, Swede and Icelandic counterparts because they lacked grain so didn't have to worry about the deleterious effects of beer and bread (all things that make folks fat today) but instead enjoyed a diet based on grasses and meat.
When the Vikings converted to Christianity the colony was able to support a cathedral a Augustinian monastery and a Benedictine convent, not to mention the twelve other churches. Not bloody likely in a marginal situation. There were over 200 farms in the main settlement.
The grasses that the cattle fed on are particularly nutritious so they prospered. This leads to estimates of the Viking population from a low of around 3,000 to a high of over 11,000.
Not too bad when one considers the total number of Vikings living in Iceland never topped 40,000 or 60,000 in Norway. Only the Danes and the Swedes developed larger populations.
As usual when presented with facts that disagree with your pre concieved notions you try and rewrite history.
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/obj/s4/f2/dsk2/ftp04/mq22551.pdf
Old Rocks
Diamond Member
- Thread starter
- #35
LMBO............I'll let Polar handle this one!!!!
And here's another idiotic, history distorting, denier cult myth from a couple of very clueless deniers.
Unlike you denier cult fruitcakes, I actually look things up and find out the facts. Accurate historical and scientific information on the Vikings in Greenland can be easily googled up by anyone who chooses to investigate the matter and not just believe some distorted junk from some talk radio moron.
A moderate regional warming called the MWP made the barely habitable southern fringes of Greenland, where the Gulf Stream current passes, slightly more habitable for about four centuries. Calling it 'Greenland' was just some PR cooked up by a murderer who was exiled from Iceland, which was itself already the pits where Norway exiled people for murder, so he had to go even farther out into the boonies and wound up sailing along the southern coast of this recently discovered, un-named, mostly ice covered land mass and found a somewhat sheltered fiord that was still pretty cold by our standards and barely sub-arctic in climate and vegetation. He wanted other people to join him there so he gave the place a cheery name and since it wasn't all that much different from what the folks were used to in Iceland, they fell for it and a few thousand moved there and settled in only three small areas around three fiords on the southern and southwestern coasts. Farming was difficult but these people mostly raised cattle, hunted and fished plus carrying on a lively trade with Iceland and mainland Europe. Greenland was still more than 80% ice covered during that time, just as it is now.
Greenland Vikings
(excerpts)
In 960, Thorvald Asvaldsson of Jaederen in Norway killed a man. He was forced to leave the country so he moved to northern Iceland. He had a ten year old son named Eric, later to be called Eric Röde, or Eric the Red. Eric too had a violent streak and in 982 he killed two men. Eric the Red was banished from Iceland for three years so he sailed west to find a land that Icelanders had discovered years before but knew little about. Eric searched the coast of this land and found the most hospitable area, a deep fiord on the southwestern coast. Warmer Atlantic currents met the island there and conditions were not much different than those in Iceland (trees and grasses.) He called this new land "Greenland" because he "believed more people would go thither if the country had a beautiful name," according to one of the Icelandic chronicles (Hermann, 1954) although Greenland, as a whole, could not be considered "green." Additionally, the land was not very good for farming. Nevertheless, Eric was able to draw thousands to the three areas shown in Fig. 15.
Figure 15: Ancient Norse settlements. (Source: Bryson, 1977)
The Greenland Vikings lived mostly on dairy produce and meat, primarily from cows. The vegetable diet of Greenlanders included berries, edible grasses, and seaweed, but these were inadequate even during the best harvests. During the MWP, Greenland's climate was so cold that cattle breeding and dairy farming could only be carried on in the sheltered fiords. The growing season in Greenland even then was very short. Frost typically occurred in August and the fiords froze in October. Before the year 1300, ships regularly sailed from Norway and other European countries to Greenland bringing with them timber, iron, corn, salt, and other needed items. Trade was by barter. Greenlanders offered butter, cheese, wool, and their frieze cloths, which were greatly sough after in Europe, as well as white and blue fox furs, polar bear skins, walrus and narwhal tusks, and walrus skins. In fact, two Greenland items in particular were prized by Europeans: white bears and the white falcon. These items were given as royal gifts. For instance, the King of Norway-Denmark sent a number of Greenland falcons as a gift to the King of Portugal, and received in return the gift of a cargo of wine (Stefansson, 1966.) Because of the shortage of adequate vegetables and cereal grains, and a shortage of timber to make ships, the trade link to Iceland and Europe was vital (Hermann, 1954.)
Scott A. Mandia
Professor - Physical Sciences
(In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.)
Jared Diamond, in his book, "Collapse", had a very good chapter on Greenland. It said, at more length and detail, what you just posted.
Old Rocks
Diamond Member
- Thread starter
- #36
Well, Walleyes, this does not sound like a successful colony at all.
Greenland: The Lost Viking Colony, Page 3 of 3 - Associated Content from Yahoo! - associatedcontent.com
The first colonists arrived in Greenland to find a mild climate suitable for the pasture farming of their native lands. The colony flourished throughout the 1200s, though life there was by no means easy--the average lifespan among the remains examined on Greenland is from 30-35 years. The remains also confirm that the settlers lived through a dramatic cooling shift in the climate in the 1300s, the effects of which were first felt by the Western Settlement. Unlike the Inuit, who noticeably adapted to those changes, the settlers defiantly attempted to maintain their farming culture.
Meanwhile, the deforestation and overgrazing of sheep and goats continued to erode the limited topsoil. Whatever arable land wasn't being lost to the advancing icecaps was being literally blow away by the wind. Eventually, the settlers could no longer rely on their farms and livestock for subsistence. Analysis of the middens shows that their diet shifted over time; seafood and local game, including seal, went from approximately 20% of the settler's diet to near 80% as conditions worsened. In one farm, researchers discovered the bones of the family's hunting dog with butcher marks upon them, a clear sign of the desperate straits the colonists experienced.
Greenland: The Lost Viking Colony, Page 3 of 3 - Associated Content from Yahoo! - associatedcontent.com
The first colonists arrived in Greenland to find a mild climate suitable for the pasture farming of their native lands. The colony flourished throughout the 1200s, though life there was by no means easy--the average lifespan among the remains examined on Greenland is from 30-35 years. The remains also confirm that the settlers lived through a dramatic cooling shift in the climate in the 1300s, the effects of which were first felt by the Western Settlement. Unlike the Inuit, who noticeably adapted to those changes, the settlers defiantly attempted to maintain their farming culture.
Meanwhile, the deforestation and overgrazing of sheep and goats continued to erode the limited topsoil. Whatever arable land wasn't being lost to the advancing icecaps was being literally blow away by the wind. Eventually, the settlers could no longer rely on their farms and livestock for subsistence. Analysis of the middens shows that their diet shifted over time; seafood and local game, including seal, went from approximately 20% of the settler's diet to near 80% as conditions worsened. In one farm, researchers discovered the bones of the family's hunting dog with butcher marks upon them, a clear sign of the desperate straits the colonists experienced.
Well, Walleyes, this does not sound like a successful colony at all.
Greenland: The Lost Viking Colony, Page 3 of 3 - Associated Content from Yahoo! - associatedcontent.com
The first colonists arrived in Greenland to find a mild climate suitable for the pasture farming of their native lands. The colony flourished throughout the 1200s, though life there was by no means easy--the average lifespan among the remains examined on Greenland is from 30-35 years. The remains also confirm that the settlers lived through a dramatic cooling shift in the climate in the 1300s, the effects of which were first felt by the Western Settlement. Unlike the Inuit, who noticeably adapted to those changes, the settlers defiantly attempted to maintain their farming culture.
Meanwhile, the deforestation and overgrazing of sheep and goats continued to erode the limited topsoil. Whatever arable land wasn't being lost to the advancing icecaps was being literally blow away by the wind. Eventually, the settlers could no longer rely on their farms and livestock for subsistence. Analysis of the middens shows that their diet shifted over time; seafood and local game, including seal, went from approximately 20% of the settler's diet to near 80% as conditions worsened. In one farm, researchers discovered the bones of the family's hunting dog with butcher marks upon them, a clear sign of the desperate straits the colonists experienced.
Below are average life expectancy's for the various times listed. Medieval Britain had an average LE of 30 unless you were an aristocrat. So yes the Vikings in Greenland lived longer than the average British subject did not to mention Greece or Rome which were far more culterally advanced and decadent. Thanks for making my point so eloquently.
I even used wiki so you could understand it.
Upper Paleolithic 33
Neolithic 20
Bronze Age and Iron Age 26
Classical Greece 28
Classical Rome 28
Pre-Columbian North America 25-30
Medieval Islamic Caliphate 35+
Medieval Britain 30 At age 21: 38 (to age 59) as an average for British aristocrats
Early Modern Britain 40+
Early 20th Century 30-45
Current world average 67.2
Life expectancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Last edited:
percysunshine
Diamond Member
Upper Paleolithic 33
Neolithic 20
Bronze Age and Iron Age 26
Classical Greece 28
Classical Rome 28
Pre-Columbian North America 25-30
Medieval Islamic Caliphate 35+
Medieval Britain 30 At age 21: 38 (to age 59) as an average for British aristocrats
Early Modern Britain 40+
Early 20th Century 30-45
Current world average 67.2
Looks like we are all too old, historically speaking. Maybe we can fix that by forcing people to buy permits to breath.
RollingThunder
Gold Member
- Mar 22, 2010
- 4,818
- 525
- 155
Why? Nothing you're saying here differs that much from the material I posted. Actually the most "current research" would indicate a smaller population than your figures.And here's another idiotic, history distorting, denier cult myth from a couple of very clueless deniers.
Unlike you denier cult fruitcakes, I actually look things up and find out the facts. Accurate historical and scientific information on the Vikings in Greenland can be easily googled up by anyone who chooses to investigate the matter and not just believe some distorted junk from some talk radio moron.
A moderate regional warming called the MWP made the barely habitable southern fringes of Greenland, where the Gulf Stream current passes, slightly more habitable for about four centuries. Calling it 'Greenland' was just some PR cooked up by a murderer who was exiled from Iceland, which was itself already the pits where Norway exiled people for murder, so he had to go even farther out into the boonies and wound up sailing along the southern coast of this recently discovered, un-named, mostly ice covered land mass and found a somewhat sheltered fiord that was still pretty cold by our standards and barely sub-arctic in climate and vegetation. He wanted other people to join him there so he gave the place a cheery name and since it wasn't all that much different from what the folks were used to in Iceland, they fell for it and a few thousand moved there and settled in only three small areas around three fiords on the southern and southwestern coasts. Farming was difficult but these people mostly raised cattle, hunted and fished plus carrying on a lively trade with Iceland and mainland Europe. Greenland was still more than 80% ice covered during that time, just as it is now.
Greenland Vikings
(excerpts)
In 960, Thorvald Asvaldsson of Jaederen in Norway killed a man. He was forced to leave the country so he moved to northern Iceland. He had a ten year old son named Eric, later to be called Eric Röde, or Eric the Red. Eric too had a violent streak and in 982 he killed two men. Eric the Red was banished from Iceland for three years so he sailed west to find a land that Icelanders had discovered years before but knew little about. Eric searched the coast of this land and found the most hospitable area, a deep fiord on the southwestern coast. Warmer Atlantic currents met the island there and conditions were not much different than those in Iceland (trees and grasses.) He called this new land "Greenland" because he "believed more people would go thither if the country had a beautiful name," according to one of the Icelandic chronicles (Hermann, 1954) although Greenland, as a whole, could not be considered "green." Additionally, the land was not very good for farming. Nevertheless, Eric was able to draw thousands to the three areas shown in Fig. 15.
Figure 15: Ancient Norse settlements. (Source: Bryson, 1977)
The Greenland Vikings lived mostly on dairy produce and meat, primarily from cows. The vegetable diet of Greenlanders included berries, edible grasses, and seaweed, but these were inadequate even during the best harvests. During the MWP, Greenland's climate was so cold that cattle breeding and dairy farming could only be carried on in the sheltered fiords. The growing season in Greenland even then was very short. Frost typically occurred in August and the fiords froze in October. Before the year 1300, ships regularly sailed from Norway and other European countries to Greenland bringing with them timber, iron, corn, salt, and other needed items. Trade was by barter. Greenlanders offered butter, cheese, wool, and their frieze cloths, which were greatly sough after in Europe, as well as white and blue fox furs, polar bear skins, walrus and narwhal tusks, and walrus skins. In fact, two Greenland items in particular were prized by Europeans: white bears and the white falcon. These items were given as royal gifts. For instance, the King of Norway-Denmark sent a number of Greenland falcons as a gift to the King of Portugal, and received in return the gift of a cargo of wine (Stefansson, 1966.) Because of the shortage of adequate vegetables and cereal grains, and a shortage of timber to make ships, the trade link to Iceland and Europe was vital (Hermann, 1954.)
Scott A. Mandia
Professor - Physical Sciences
(In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.)
You need some more current research on the Vikings mate.
"Population estimates vary from highs of only 2000 to as many as 10,000 people. More recent estimates such as that of Professor Niels Lynnerup in Vikings: The North Atlantic Saga, ed. by William W. Fitzhugh and Elisabeth I. Ward, have tended toward the lower figure."
They existed as a colony for over 500 years. At least 300 or those years they prospered. In other words longer then the US has been around. Nutritionally they were better off then their Dane, Swede and Icelandic counterparts because they lacked grain so didn't have to worry about the deleterious effects of beer and bread (all things that make folks fat today) but instead enjoyed a diet based on grasses and meat.
When the Vikings converted to Christianity the colony was able to support a cathedral a Augustinian monastery and a Benedictine convent, not to mention the twelve other churches. Not bloody likely in a marginal situation. There were over 200 farms in the main settlement.
The grasses that the cattle fed on are particularly nutritious so they prospered. This leads to estimates of the Viking population from a low of around 3,000 to a high of over 11,000.
Not too bad when one considers the total number of Vikings living in Iceland never topped 40,000 or 60,000 in Norway. Only the Danes and the Swedes developed larger populations.
As usual when presented with facts that disagree with your pre concieved notions you try and rewrite history.
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/obj/s4/f2/dsk2/ftp04/mq22551.pdf
So what? During a period of regional warming called the MWP portions of Greenland's southern coast became marginally habitable for a few centuries. Temperatures in the Arctic were not as high as they are now and the ice sheet wasn't melting then like it is now and that is really the point. All of your denier cult babble about "the Vikings were farming in Greeenland" doesn't actually show anything to challenge the fact that the ice sheet has been stable for tens of thousands of years and is only now beginning to seriously melt.
Greenland ice sheet
***
skookerasbil
Platinum Member
Why? Nothing you're saying here differs that much from the material I posted. Actually the most "current research" would indicate a smaller population than your figures.And here's another idiotic, history distorting, denier cult myth from a couple of very clueless deniers.
Unlike you denier cult fruitcakes, I actually look things up and find out the facts. Accurate historical and scientific information on the Vikings in Greenland can be easily googled up by anyone who chooses to investigate the matter and not just believe some distorted junk from some talk radio moron.
A moderate regional warming called the MWP made the barely habitable southern fringes of Greenland, where the Gulf Stream current passes, slightly more habitable for about four centuries. Calling it 'Greenland' was just some PR cooked up by a murderer who was exiled from Iceland, which was itself already the pits where Norway exiled people for murder, so he had to go even farther out into the boonies and wound up sailing along the southern coast of this recently discovered, un-named, mostly ice covered land mass and found a somewhat sheltered fiord that was still pretty cold by our standards and barely sub-arctic in climate and vegetation. He wanted other people to join him there so he gave the place a cheery name and since it wasn't all that much different from what the folks were used to in Iceland, they fell for it and a few thousand moved there and settled in only three small areas around three fiords on the southern and southwestern coasts. Farming was difficult but these people mostly raised cattle, hunted and fished plus carrying on a lively trade with Iceland and mainland Europe. Greenland was still more than 80% ice covered during that time, just as it is now.
Greenland Vikings
(excerpts)
In 960, Thorvald Asvaldsson of Jaederen in Norway killed a man. He was forced to leave the country so he moved to northern Iceland. He had a ten year old son named Eric, later to be called Eric Röde, or Eric the Red. Eric too had a violent streak and in 982 he killed two men. Eric the Red was banished from Iceland for three years so he sailed west to find a land that Icelanders had discovered years before but knew little about. Eric searched the coast of this land and found the most hospitable area, a deep fiord on the southwestern coast. Warmer Atlantic currents met the island there and conditions were not much different than those in Iceland (trees and grasses.) He called this new land "Greenland" because he "believed more people would go thither if the country had a beautiful name," according to one of the Icelandic chronicles (Hermann, 1954) although Greenland, as a whole, could not be considered "green." Additionally, the land was not very good for farming. Nevertheless, Eric was able to draw thousands to the three areas shown in Fig. 15.
Figure 15: Ancient Norse settlements. (Source: Bryson, 1977)
The Greenland Vikings lived mostly on dairy produce and meat, primarily from cows. The vegetable diet of Greenlanders included berries, edible grasses, and seaweed, but these were inadequate even during the best harvests. During the MWP, Greenland's climate was so cold that cattle breeding and dairy farming could only be carried on in the sheltered fiords. The growing season in Greenland even then was very short. Frost typically occurred in August and the fiords froze in October. Before the year 1300, ships regularly sailed from Norway and other European countries to Greenland bringing with them timber, iron, corn, salt, and other needed items. Trade was by barter. Greenlanders offered butter, cheese, wool, and their frieze cloths, which were greatly sough after in Europe, as well as white and blue fox furs, polar bear skins, walrus and narwhal tusks, and walrus skins. In fact, two Greenland items in particular were prized by Europeans: white bears and the white falcon. These items were given as royal gifts. For instance, the King of Norway-Denmark sent a number of Greenland falcons as a gift to the King of Portugal, and received in return the gift of a cargo of wine (Stefansson, 1966.) Because of the shortage of adequate vegetables and cereal grains, and a shortage of timber to make ships, the trade link to Iceland and Europe was vital (Hermann, 1954.)
Scott A. Mandia
Professor - Physical Sciences
(In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.)
You need some more current research on the Vikings mate.
"Population estimates vary from highs of only 2000 to as many as 10,000 people. More recent estimates such as that of Professor Niels Lynnerup in Vikings: The North Atlantic Saga, ed. by William W. Fitzhugh and Elisabeth I. Ward, have tended toward the lower figure."
They existed as a colony for over 500 years. At least 300 or those years they prospered. In other words longer then the US has been around. Nutritionally they were better off then their Dane, Swede and Icelandic counterparts because they lacked grain so didn't have to worry about the deleterious effects of beer and bread (all things that make folks fat today) but instead enjoyed a diet based on grasses and meat.
When the Vikings converted to Christianity the colony was able to support a cathedral a Augustinian monastery and a Benedictine convent, not to mention the twelve other churches. Not bloody likely in a marginal situation. There were over 200 farms in the main settlement.
The grasses that the cattle fed on are particularly nutritious so they prospered. This leads to estimates of the Viking population from a low of around 3,000 to a high of over 11,000.
Not too bad when one considers the total number of Vikings living in Iceland never topped 40,000 or 60,000 in Norway. Only the Danes and the Swedes developed larger populations.
As usual when presented with facts that disagree with your pre concieved notions you try and rewrite history.
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/obj/s4/f2/dsk2/ftp04/mq22551.pdf
So what? During a period of regional warming called the MWP portions of Greenland's southern coast became marginally habitable for a few centuries. Temperatures in the Arctic were not as high as they are now and the ice sheet wasn't melting then like it is now and that is really the point. All of your denier cult babble about "the Vikings were farming in Greeenland" doesn't actually show anything to challenge the fact that the ice sheet has been stable for tens of thousands of years and is only now beginning to seriously melt.
Greenland ice sheet
***
yup..........nature happens s0n. The hopelessly duped however, get hysterical about everything. Some tornado's happened a couple of weeks ago. The k00ks jumped all over that!! And what a surprise!!
ps........some area's of Greenlands ice are expanding = fact. Go look it up.............I could care less about the science since I know my side is winning
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/01/bad-climate-for-global-warming/69926/ far left = NOT winning.
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