Good friend closing business after 28 years.

[Unkotare]

When you hurt a local business, you are really hurting the community.

So now you are "hurting a local business" if you decide to buy elsewhere? A little emotional blackmail there?

 

[Foxfyre]

Another point is that local stores understand the importance of staying local. They typically are more likely to purchase their needs locally, which strengthens the local economy even more. Also, all those charities and school fund raisers are heavily supported by local businesses. When you hurt a local business, you are really hurting the community.

The local lumber yard shutdown a few years back, now I have to go one town over for lumber. What if more folks had bought local? My local hardware store IS still here. I try to buy all my stuff there. Now, I will buy paint elsewhere, if the cost is more than $3 or $4 more a gallon. Again, coverage is a big factor in which paint is really less expensive. Sometimes the more expensive stuff is really a bargain.

Yep...I budget $12,000 a year for local charities and support 13 of them. We also provide printing for material cost only to schools and churches.
Go to any community charity event - who makes up half the crowd? Local business owners...you know..the rich bastards that don't care about anyone.

Yes. The local merchants do support local charities, school projects, and make their contributions for the new hospital wing or the new museum exhibit. And so do the big box stores that give even bigger contributions because they can. The manager of the big box store has every bit as much interest in creating good will as the little guy does. Do either do it for purely altruistic motives? Probably some do. Do both do it to look as good and decent as the other guy? Probably both do.

To this day I go to Wal-Mart because they made the market decision to allow the Salvation Army bell ringers to operate outside their front doors during the Christmas season. Target choose to ban them. So though both stores offer many similar products at competitive prices, Wal-Mart gets my business.

When a local youth team had all their uniforms and equipment stolen, and their sponsor could not afford to replace them, one of our big box sports stores turned them down. Another made the market devcision to requip them. Guess which one gets all my busines now.

 

[KevinWestern]

The answer is in regaining our manufacturing base by creating a climate that makes our products more affordable and more desirable than somebody elses. We need an economic climate that makes us competitive again. If we would focus on that, everybody prospers, and the guy in the OP would likely still be in business.

Good post, and I agree with a lot of it.

My response to you is that yes – the big box stores are currently winning. And I think that this is because there’s a world of good things (pros) they offer to a consumer; lower prices, everything in one place, quality control, ect.

But what I just want to mention is that what I would like to see is consumers doing a better job at making an effort to learn about the businesses they choose to buy from. Because if everyone in the world took the time to do that today, I think that we would be seeing a very different set of winners and losers with regards to the free market. Consumers pick the winners and losers, and if you have a more active and engaged consumer base (who take into consideration ALL of the aspects of their purchase), you will most undoubtedly find yourself with a more favorable set of winners.

Perhaps the guy who knows nothing about Walmart will choose their $2.50 scissors over the local hardware store’s $4 scissors. That makes perfect sense, too.

But say he took the time to read a book about some of the unethical practices of Walmart, and takes into consideration that by supporting Walmart, one of his neighborhood stores may go out of business. Now all of a sudden the Walmart scissors costs $2.50 plus “$3” (or whatever) due to the displeasure it gives him from having to sacrifice some of his principles in order to buy from Walmart. All of a sudden, the $4 scissors appear a bit more attractive, and perhaps the hardware store will have a better advantage competing.

All I’m saying is that I wish that people gave some more thought about who they are purchasing from, and how that might have an effect on their community and their lives in the long run.

I think that's the #1 problem of capitalism, it's inability to prepare itself adequately for the long run. We tend to think very short term.
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[KevinWestern]

If there was a market for pretentious douchebaggery you would be a fucking billionaire, you self-adoring shitstain.


Maybe some enlightened being such as yourself should be appointed the Purchasing Czar and dictate for all the ignorant masses what they can buy and from where. That way you could protect the unwashed lower beings from making 'mistakes' with their choices. Those who can't think, care, or take responsiblity should be guided by people like you who know better, right?

Meanwhile, back in the real world...

I'm just saying that sometimes people who recognize that there's a broader picture beyond their purchases (and care about the consequences) need to stand up to protect those who don't.

I'm sorry if you take this as being pretentious; I just think it's the truth.

You post that steaming load of pretentious bullshit and then say "I'm sorry if you take this as being pretentious"? WTF? At least be honest about being a pretentious douche if you really can't help yourself.

What a self-important piece of shit.

How about we take it down a notch?

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[ABikerSailor]

I run through a number of shovels every year. The ones made in China (most of them) are made of Chinese steel. Big surprise there huh? What I have found is the metal deforms faster and the fiberglass handles snap easier than the USA variety. I "save" money with higher quality shovels.

You know..........when I first started bicycling seriously back in '87, I walked into the local bike shop and asked why their bikes were so expensive. He told me that they were better made, had better welds and would hold up LONGER and better than what you could buy in a big box store (i.e. Huffys).

So, I plunked down 300 bucks (this was in '87 and it was a lot of money) and bought my first Univega, gradually getting better bikes as I got faster (and stronger) and ended up at the end of it with a bike that I paid around 4,000 dollars for.

Guess what? I've had that really expensive bike for over 15 years now, and it still runs just as good as it did the day I got it, and I turn in around 3,000 plus miles/year for riding.

If I'd bought a Huffy? I would have had to replace a 150 dollar bike around every 6 months, as the kind of distance I was riding at the time would have worn them out that fast.

You're right..........sometimes you save money by going expensive and getting the best you can possibly afford. That's a concept my ex wife could never get.

 

[Foxfyre]

The answer is in regaining our manufacturing base by creating a climate that makes our products more affordable and more desirable than somebody elses. We need an economic climate that makes us competitive again. If we would focus on that, everybody prospers, and the guy in the OP would likely still be in business.

Good post, and I agree with a lot of it.

My response to you is that yes – the big box stores are currently winning. And I think that this is because there’s a world of good things (pros) they offer to a consumer; lower prices, everything in one place, quality control, ect.

But what I just want to mention is that what I would like to see is consumers doing a better job at making an effort to learn about the businesses they choose to buy from. Because if everyone in the world took the time to do that today, I think that we would be seeing a very different set of winners and losers with regards to the free market. Consumers pick the winners and losers, and if you have a more active and engaged consumer base (who take into consideration ALL of the aspects of their purchase), you will most undoubtedly find yourself with a more favorable set of winners.

Perhaps the guy who knows nothing about Walmart will choose their $2.50 scissors over the local hardware store’s $4 scissors. That makes perfect sense, too.

But say he took the time to read a book about some of the unethical practices of Walmart, and takes into consideration that by supporting Walmart, one of his neighborhood stores may go out of business. Now all of a sudden the Walmart scissors costs $2.50 plus “$3” (or whatever) due to the displeasure it gives him from having to sacrifice some of his principles in order to buy from Walmart. All of a sudden, the $4 scissors appear a bit more attractive, and perhaps the hardware store will have a better advantage competing.

All I’m saying is that I wish that people gave some more thought about who they are purchasing from, and how that might have an effect on their community and their lives in the long run.

I think that's the #1 problem of capitalism, it's inability to prepare itself adequately for the long run. We tend to think very short term.
.
.

Then again the person could read the book and shrug it off as the work of the disgruntled trying to punish Wal-Mart for their success. If you experience nothing but good service and satisfactory products at attractive prices at Wal-mart, if you witness them going out of their way to be a good neighbor for whatever motive, that is the way you are going to perceive Wal-Mart. I mean would the grandfatherly, gentile, old-fashioned and lovable Paul Harvey have endorsed and praised Wal-mart for years and years if they were a bad company? Who knows whether he knew what kind of company they were? But sometimes, perception is everything.

Years ago I joined the boycott of Nestle products in the face of some unconscionable and deadly marketing practices the company was engaged in. It is amazing how many products the Nestle Corporation puts out there, so it required quite a bit of effort to avoid them. But the boycott was succesful and Nestle ceased its unethical practices and is back in everybody's good graces now. Public opinion is an effective tool to use to change behavior.

While I do buy Ameican when I can get an acceptable price and quality, I simply don't have time to research every manufacturer that puts out a product any more than I have time to research every business I walk into. I guess I trust the system enough that the truly unethical will eventually be found out and legally stopped, or the court of public opinion will eventually produce acceptable behavior.

And meanwhile we should be pushing for a free market system in which all Americans can compete on all levels and trust the people to choose the cream that rises to the top.

 

[ABikerSailor]

The answer is in regaining our manufacturing base by creating a climate that makes our products more affordable and more desirable than somebody elses. We need an economic climate that makes us competitive again. If we would focus on that, everybody prospers, and the guy in the OP would likely still be in business.

Good post, and I agree with a lot of it.

My response to you is that yes – the big box stores are currently winning. And I think that this is because there’s a world of good things (pros) they offer to a consumer; lower prices, everything in one place, quality control, ect.

But what I just want to mention is that what I would like to see is consumers doing a better job at making an effort to learn about the businesses they choose to buy from. Because if everyone in the world took the time to do that today, I think that we would be seeing a very different set of winners and losers with regards to the free market. Consumers pick the winners and losers, and if you have a more active and engaged consumer base (who take into consideration ALL of the aspects of their purchase), you will most undoubtedly find yourself with a more favorable set of winners.

Perhaps the guy who knows nothing about Walmart will choose their $2.50 scissors over the local hardware store’s $4 scissors. That makes perfect sense, too.

But say he took the time to read a book about some of the unethical practices of Walmart, and takes into consideration that by supporting Walmart, one of his neighborhood stores may go out of business. Now all of a sudden the Walmart scissors costs $2.50 plus “$3” (or whatever) due to the displeasure it gives him from having to sacrifice some of his principles in order to buy from Walmart. All of a sudden, the $4 scissors appear a bit more attractive, and perhaps the hardware store will have a better advantage competing.

All I’m saying is that I wish that people gave some more thought about who they are purchasing from, and how that might have an effect on their community and their lives in the long run.

I think that's the #1 problem of capitalism, it's inability to prepare itself adequately for the long run. We tend to think very short term.
.
.

Then again the person could read the book and shrug it off as the work of the disgruntled trying to punish Wal-Mart for their success. If you experience nothing but good service and satisfactory products at attractive prices at Wal-mart, if you witness them going out of their way to be a good neighbor for whatever motive, that is the way you are going to perceive Wal-Mart. I mean would the grandfatherly, gentile, old-fashioned and lovable Paul Harvey have endorsed and praised Wal-mart for years and years if they were a bad company? Who knows whether he knew what kind of company they were? But sometimes, perception is everything.

Years ago I joined the boycott of Nestle products in the face of some unconscionable and deadly marketing practices the company was engaged in. It is amazing how many products the Nestle Corporation puts out there, so it required quite a bit of effort to avoid them. But the boycott was succesful and Nestle ceased its unethical practices and is back in everybody's good graces now. Public opinion is an effective tool to use to change behavior.

While I do buy Ameican when I can get an acceptable price and quality, I simply don't have time to research every manufacturer that puts out a product any more than I have time to research every business I walk into. I guess I trust the system enough that the truly unethical will eventually be found out and legally stopped, or the court of public opinion will eventually produce acceptable behavior.

And meanwhile we should be pushing for a free market system in which all Americans can compete on all levels and trust the people to choose the cream that rises to the top.

Yanno, there are 5 Wal Marts within an 8 mile radius of where I live. I think that's a bit overkill.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against Wal Mart, I shop there a bit, but I think that saturating a town with Wal Marts like Starbucks did isn't right.

 

[kiwiman127]

just wondering...what was his business?

His was the same as mine...only smaller.
We are one of the last remaining manufacturers where to this day most are still single owned businesses. But, at the same time, we could very well be what the grocery business was in the 1990's...by 2000...almost none were single owned: Printing.
Not the mom and pop copy shop...the multi-full color shops cranking out 100,000's of pcs a day. What we have going for us is paper is very heavy. Therefore costly to transport. So far that has been our saving grace. But at the same time printing grew nearly every year decade after decade. The internet? Fax machines? Cell Phones? These have affected printing very little. Direct mail is the most effective means of advertising by faaaar. But the economy has shredded our industry. Since 2007 the industry has dropped a staggering 27%. Printing is of course a B2B business. And businesses have been forced to cut expenses - advertising is one of the first things businesses cut.

If the industry is down 27% and his revenues are down 50%, then he is doing something wrong. Every business I have ever worked in always stressed savings in every possible way.

It appears to me that this fella finally got caught up in the Big Companies versus the Ma & Pa trend that has killed small businesses for the last 2-3 decades.
I read an article over ten years ago in The Atlantic called "The Walmarting of America", where as big companies are out to drive the small businesses out of business with low prices and cheap labor. What used to be small town Main Street businesses are now empty stores and businesses that were owned by your every day Joe/Jane American.
It's a piece of Americana that is quickly becoming a fading memory. It's a sad state of affairs.

 

[Foxfyre]

Good post, and I agree with a lot of it.

My response to you is that yes – the big box stores are currently winning. And I think that this is because there’s a world of good things (pros) they offer to a consumer; lower prices, everything in one place, quality control, ect.

But what I just want to mention is that what I would like to see is consumers doing a better job at making an effort to learn about the businesses they choose to buy from. Because if everyone in the world took the time to do that today, I think that we would be seeing a very different set of winners and losers with regards to the free market. Consumers pick the winners and losers, and if you have a more active and engaged consumer base (who take into consideration ALL of the aspects of their purchase), you will most undoubtedly find yourself with a more favorable set of winners.

Perhaps the guy who knows nothing about Walmart will choose their $2.50 scissors over the local hardware store’s $4 scissors. That makes perfect sense, too.

But say he took the time to read a book about some of the unethical practices of Walmart, and takes into consideration that by supporting Walmart, one of his neighborhood stores may go out of business. Now all of a sudden the Walmart scissors costs $2.50 plus “$3” (or whatever) due to the displeasure it gives him from having to sacrifice some of his principles in order to buy from Walmart. All of a sudden, the $4 scissors appear a bit more attractive, and perhaps the hardware store will have a better advantage competing.

All I’m saying is that I wish that people gave some more thought about who they are purchasing from, and how that might have an effect on their community and their lives in the long run.

I think that's the #1 problem of capitalism, it's inability to prepare itself adequately for the long run. We tend to think very short term.
.
.

Then again the person could read the book and shrug it off as the work of the disgruntled trying to punish Wal-Mart for their success. If you experience nothing but good service and satisfactory products at attractive prices at Wal-mart, if you witness them going out of their way to be a good neighbor for whatever motive, that is the way you are going to perceive Wal-Mart. I mean would the grandfatherly, gentile, old-fashioned and lovable Paul Harvey have endorsed and praised Wal-mart for years and years if they were a bad company? Who knows whether he knew what kind of company they were? But sometimes, perception is everything.

Years ago I joined the boycott of Nestle products in the face of some unconscionable and deadly marketing practices the company was engaged in. It is amazing how many products the Nestle Corporation puts out there, so it required quite a bit of effort to avoid them. But the boycott was succesful and Nestle ceased its unethical practices and is back in everybody's good graces now. Public opinion is an effective tool to use to change behavior.

While I do buy Ameican when I can get an acceptable price and quality, I simply don't have time to research every manufacturer that puts out a product any more than I have time to research every business I walk into. I guess I trust the system enough that the truly unethical will eventually be found out and legally stopped, or the court of public opinion will eventually produce acceptable behavior.

And meanwhile we should be pushing for a free market system in which all Americans can compete on all levels and trust the people to choose the cream that rises to the top.

Yanno, there are 5 Wal Marts within an 8 mile radius of where I live. I think that's a bit overkill.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against Wal Mart, I shop there a bit, but I think that saturating a town with Wal Marts like Starbucks did isn't right.

But in a free market, the stores go in as a market decision. If there is insufficient business to sustain them, one or more or all will close. It is as simple as that. I am no expert on Wal-Mart and dont shop there any more than I shop other places, but I do know that a company with Wal-Mart's track records generally don't put a store in that the market can't sustain.

Due to the dubious success of putting Wal-mart into declining small communities, that doesn't happen all that much any more though Wal-marts are being placed in rural market regions where they seem to be mostly well received and well appreciated. As often as a Wal-mart will force smaller competition to close or relocate, it also attracts other non-competing businesses who use Wal-mart like an anchor store in a shopping mall.

There are pros and cons to just about everything in business, and certainly Wal-mart is no exception.

 

[Foxfyre]

His was the same as mine...only smaller.
We are one of the last remaining manufacturers where to this day most are still single owned businesses. But, at the same time, we could very well be what the grocery business was in the 1990's...by 2000...almost none were single owned: Printing.
Not the mom and pop copy shop...the multi-full color shops cranking out 100,000's of pcs a day. What we have going for us is paper is very heavy. Therefore costly to transport. So far that has been our saving grace. But at the same time printing grew nearly every year decade after decade. The internet? Fax machines? Cell Phones? These have affected printing very little. Direct mail is the most effective means of advertising by faaaar. But the economy has shredded our industry. Since 2007 the industry has dropped a staggering 27%. Printing is of course a B2B business. And businesses have been forced to cut expenses - advertising is one of the first things businesses cut.

If the industry is down 27% and his revenues are down 50%, then he is doing something wrong. Every business I have ever worked in always stressed savings in every possible way.

It appears to me that this fella finally got caught up in the Big Companies versus the Ma & Pa trend that has killed small businesses for the last 2-3 decades.
I read an article over ten years ago in The Atlantic called "The Walmarting of America", where as big companies are out to drive the small businesses out of business with low prices and cheap labor. What used to be small town Main Street businesses are now empty stores and businesses that were owned by your every day Joe/Jane American.
It's a piece of Americana that is quickly becoming a fading memory. It's a sad state of affairs.

Many small communities were losing population and were declining long before the Wal-mart went in. Sometimes Wal-mart has hastened the demise of the small town; other times it has helped stablilize the market base and keep a population who likes the atmosphere of small town living while not giving up on having close by places to shop. Pros and cons of everything.

In the case of the business in the OP, however, Wal-martization had nothing to do with it. He got caught in the same trap Mr. Foxfyre and I got caught in with our small business. When you have your clientele struggling in a bad environment, it becomes far more important to them to get maximum value for every penny expended. And because the economy is shrunken, they can be more picky about who they give their business to--everybody is hungry to get it--and they can be far more demanding about what they receive for the contract and what they will pay for the work.

Once the economy tanked, Mr. Foxfyre and I were getting more business than anybody else, though less than we had been getting before. But we were expected to take less money to do it or do twice the work for the same money. It became a no win situation for us, changed from a job we had loved to one that we dreaded getting up to do every morning, and we closed it down and retired years earlier than we probably otherwise would have done.

Get the economy booming again and everybody wins and everybody is much happier.

 

[saveliberty]

Recently tried a cartridge refill business that just opened a few months ago. Liked the idea of reusing the cartridges and saving money. Thing is, I can still donate the used cartridges to charity and they get money for them and the cartridges didn't last as long as the originals. Now I'm back to using the factory ones.

 

[Foxfyre]

Not really familiar with this Unkatore poster...does he always act like a spoilt 10 year year old? Reminds me of a sudo-conservative TDM.

That seems to be the pattern lately. But nothing like TDM who while annoying to some, is never verbally abusive or intentionally disruptive.

 

[KevinWestern]

Not really familiar with this Unkatore poster...does he always act like a spoilt 10 year year old? Reminds me of a sudo-conservative TDM.

That seems to be the pattern lately. But nothing like TDM who while annoying to some, is never verbally abusive or intentionally disruptive.

Perhaps Unkatore is just going through a difficult time in his/her life, and needs our support in order to get back on track?
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[Foxfyre]

Not really familiar with this Unkatore poster...does he always act like a spoilt 10 year year old? Reminds me of a sudo-conservative TDM.

That seems to be the pattern lately. But nothing like TDM who while annoying to some, is never verbally abusive or intentionally disruptive.

Perhaps Unkatore is just going through a difficult time in his/her life, and needs our support in order to get back on track?
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Be our guest. Neither civility nor humiliation has been too effective in dealing with him lately, but please take it to the Flame Zone or some such. He has already managed to run off one excellent member from USMB and destroy several really good threads. If we all ignore him here though, maybe he won't be able to do that to this one. I think we haven't even begun to really explore all the possibilities in this topic which is an interesting one.

 

[Unkotare]

I'm just saying that sometimes people who recognize that there's a broader picture beyond their purchases (and care about the consequences) need to stand up to protect those who don't.

I'm sorry if you take this as being pretentious; I just think it's the truth.

You post that steaming load of pretentious bullshit and then say "I'm sorry if you take this as being pretentious"? WTF? At least be honest about being a pretentious douche if you really can't help yourself.

What a self-important piece of shit.

How about we take it down a notch?

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You're free to stop being a pretentious douchebag whenever you want.

 

[Unkotare]

Not really familiar with this Unkatore poster...does he always act like a spoilt 10 year year old? Reminds me of a sudo-conservative TDM.

That seems to be the pattern lately. But nothing like TDM who while annoying to some, is never verbally abusive or intentionally disruptive.

Perhaps Unkatore is just going through a difficult time in his/her life, and needs our support in order to get back on track?
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And the pretentious billionaire tries for another sale!

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Not really familiar with this Unkatore poster...does he always act like a spoilt 10 year year old? Reminds me of a sudo-conservative TDM.

That seems to be the pattern lately. But nothing like TDM who while annoying to some, is never verbally abusive or intentionally disruptive.

 

[KevinWestern]

You post that steaming load of pretentious bullshit and then say "I'm sorry if you take this as being pretentious"? WTF? At least be honest about being a pretentious douche if you really can't help yourself.

What a self-important piece of shit.

How about we take it down a notch?

.

You're free to stop being a pretentious douchebag whenever you want.

Unk, it gets better, I promise.

Just breathe, and let that anger flow right out of you and into the universe... to drift far, far away...
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[Unkotare]

How about we take it down a notch?

.

You're free to stop being a pretentious douchebag whenever you want.

Unk, it gets better, I promise.

I read more than a few of your posts and you don't seem to be getting better. In fact, you seem to be becoming more of a self-important douchebag with each post. Maybe you need a healthy dose of STFU.

 

[KevinWestern]

You're free to stop being a pretentious douchebag whenever you want.

Unk, it gets better, I promise.

I read more than a few of your posts and you don't seem to be getting better. In fact, you seem to be becoming more of a self-important douchebag with each post. Maybe you need a healthy dose of STFU.

I wasn't aware that I had someone tracking my progress at USMB.

But anyways.

In all seriousness Unkatore, what's at the root of all of this anger? And why do you always come crashing into posts with your guns drawn, insulting anything and everyone at the first chance you get? Are you gaining something from this?

And finally, where'd you come up with "Unkatore"? Kind of a unique name, I'm genuinely interested...


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