Harambe the Gorilla - What the REAL Problem is....

[Coyote]

Most animals dont speak english. You can see by their actions they are sentient and know to keep away from people.

yea the gazelles like to keep away from lions as well

why even run if they understand and accept their fate


see, we cannot pick their brains for these specific answers.....we can only speculate

Of course they do. Its part of life. If they didnt recognize the slow two footed predators called humans were dangerous then you would have a point. They dont accept their fate until there is nothing else they can do to keep living. You dont see them making up gods and weird stuff like humans.


We can do more than speculate. We can observe their actions and understand their language.

i want one to tell me, at a coffee table, that theyd rather be chewed alive or die young of a disease rather than stay at a resort with all their play things, food, safety and friends provided for

wake me when youve done that survey - anything short is exactly speculation

Why would they tell you they want to die? I think the question would actually be would you rather be free or in a prison. Sounds to me like you are one of those guys that say slavery was the best thing for Black people.

Its not akin to slavery, you diminish slavery by even saying that shit.

In the appropriate acting zoos, they are given safety, luxuries, medical, a miniaturized but safer & way more micro-perfected habitat


and arent doing forced labor or living in a barn




its more like tell people here...... have this mansion, food, drinks, water, fuck take the lambo and relax, no work just chill out and enjoy life....no death defying hunt necessary homey.....we will take care of everything


than slavery

Ya, but you'd have to eat purina monkey chow.

 

[Alex.]

Too many people have a complete lack of connection the Reality of the Animal World, whether it's wildlife or domestic animals. And, implied in that, is a lack of RESPECT for those animals.

Tigers are not cuddly giant cats - they are apex predators who have evolved to beautifully fit that role and deserve all that respect that entails.

Gorillas, are not humans in fur suits, they are powerful, 400 pount highly intelligent members of another species who may or may not LIKE us (a competing species) and who have their own needs and desires which may or may not include the human species.

All of these animals deserve respect, and that can't happen if people refuse to recognize that they are what they are, and have a right to be what they are and should not be expected to act like humans. Why do so many dogs end up euthanized for "aggression"? Because they are dogs trying their best to exist in a human world and if we refuse to recognize that and help them as dogs instead of expect human behavior, they'll continue to be euthanized.

Excellent article:
The Shooting of Harambe the Gorilla is Part of a Larger Problem

Teaching our kids about nature is important to my wife and me. So, we spend a lot of time at zoos. It doesn’t take long to notice that most people aren’t there to learn anything. Most people who walk through the gates just think they’re going to an amusement park with animals. The result is that zoos are often unpleasant. There is little silence, little room for contemplation, almost no space for serious observation.


Kids run wild. Many, many times we’ve seen entire exhibits descended upon by groups of unruly, poorly supervised children who have little interest in what’s before them. Given this environment, it’s not surprising that a kid at one of the busiest zoos in the nation slipped into an enclosure.


You can criticize the parents. Had they been watching the boy, he wouldn’t have crawled in, he wouldn’t have fallen, and the Cincinnati zoo would have a living male gorilla named Harambe instead of a dead one.


But, if you criticize the parents, you’ve also got to criticize the general cultural ethos that tells people children require less supervision than they actually do. Especially, in the presence of wild animals. That kid’s parents were just doing what I have seen a million other parents do at the zoo: assume that everything is perfectly safe.


Second, the assumption of perfect safety is built on another assumption clearly on display at the zoo. Spend time at any zoo, or even at any local park, and you will see that people assume that the world is made for them, that the whole world exists only as an entertainment, a big show which owes them a happy ending.


When zoo officials shot Harambe, they failed to supply the requisite happy ending. That’s why the women in the picture above are crying. Their tears aren’t so much about the loss of the gorilla as they are about being reminded of how the world actually is.


Looking at animals in a zoo, ought to move us to contemplation, ought to help us to realize our place in creation, ought to bring us into deeper contact with reality. These two stories, the bison in the trunk and the shooting of Harambe, show us how far we are as a society from those ideals.


Many people are so protected from the realities of life that they cannot understand that bad things happen, that not every tragedy can be avoided. They cannot imagine that their own well-intentioned actions could be the cause of such tragedies. They know neither themselves nor the world.​

But, if you criticize the parents, you’ve also got to criticize the general cultural ethos that tells people children require less supervision than they actually do. Especially, in the presence of wild animals. That kid’s parents were just doing what I have seen a million other parents do at the zoo: assume that everything is perfectly safe.

There is no ethos that proclaims this, quite the contrary, children are taught that they must be careful, cautious and maintain their own safety at a very early age.

The zoo was inspected and found within normal parameters of safety. "The breach, zoo Director Thane Maynard said, was the first time a visitor had entered its Gorilla World exhibit, which opened in 1978. A federal inspection less than two months ago found no problems with the exhibit." Mother's 911 call after son fell into gorilla enclosure released

 

[G.T.]

yea the gazelles like to keep away from lions as well

why even run if they understand and accept their fate


see, we cannot pick their brains for these specific answers.....we can only speculate

Of course they do. Its part of life. If they didnt recognize the slow two footed predators called humans were dangerous then you would have a point. They dont accept their fate until there is nothing else they can do to keep living. You dont see them making up gods and weird stuff like humans.


We can do more than speculate. We can observe their actions and understand their language.

i want one to tell me, at a coffee table, that theyd rather be chewed alive or die young of a disease rather than stay at a resort with all their play things, food, safety and friends provided for

wake me when youve done that survey - anything short is exactly speculation

Why would they tell you they want to die? I think the question would actually be would you rather be free or in a prison. Sounds to me like you are one of those guys that say slavery was the best thing for Black people.

Its not akin to slavery, you diminish slavery by even saying that shit.

In the appropriate acting zoos, they are given safety, luxuries, medical, a miniaturized but safer & way more micro-perfected habitat


and arent doing forced labor or living in a barn




its more like tell people here...... have this mansion, food, drinks, water, fuck take the lambo and relax, no work just chill out and enjoy life....no death defying hunt necessary homey.....we will take care of everything


than slavery

Ya, but you'd have to eat purina monkey chow.

put bacon in it ill drive to the bronx zoo rightfugginnow

 

[Fair&Balanced]

Since there were probably 19 busloads of schoolkids at the zoo that day, (This is what schools do nowadays) they missed an opportunity for a real teachable moment. They should have rounded up all the little kiddies so they could see Harambe tear the little kid to pieces. Then they would have all learned something valuable.

there was almost no chance he would have done that ,

Jesus Christ you are stupid.

They are wild animals, by definition we have no idea what they might do.

I have ZERO doubt that if that were your kid in there you would not be saying "hold up now, let's wait and see how the gorilla acts before we shoot him"

Fucking moron.

 

[CremeBrulee]

4. Zoos Aren’t Educational
Possibly the biggest lie that zoos tell people is that by visiting them, people will learn about wild animals. But the only thing that zoos teach people is that it’s OK to keep animals in captivity—bored, cramped, lonely, and very far from home.


Most visitors spend only a few minutes at each display and learn very little about the animals they’re seeing. Signs outside displays barely cover more than an animal’s species, diet, and natural range. Animals’ “normal” behavior isn’t discussed often in zoos because they don’t get to live “normal” lives there. For example, birds’ wings may be clipped so that they can’t fly, aquatic animals often go without adequate water, and many animals who naturally live in large herds or family groups are kept alone or, at most, in pairs.

I agree with this somewhat. Being in a family of four veterinarians zoos were, and sometimes still are, an amazing educational experience. We always do behind the scenes tours and talk to the vets, techs, keepers, etc about the animals and their care. A person can learn a lot at the zoo if they are so inclined. Unfortunately, I think most people would rather be entertained or at least have their children entertained.

 

[Kat]

Interesting read from Jane Goodall


Jane Goodall Responds to Harambe's Death: 'It Looked as Though the Gorilla Was Putting an Arm Around the Child'

 

[Fair&Balanced]

Interesting read from Jane Goodall


Jane Goodall Responds to Harambe's Death: 'It Looked as Though the Gorilla Was Putting an Arm Around the Child'

Come on, in the end this was a fucking monkey and you can't risk a child's life for a monkey.

 

[Alex.]

Come on, in the end this was a fucking monkey and you can't risk a child's life for a monkey.

The mother risked the child's life no one else.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

Come on, in the end this was a fucking monkey and you can't risk a child's life for a monkey.

The mother risked the child's life no one else.

I don't care , you don't let a child die b/c of a parent's bad judgement to save a god damned animal.

 

[Asclepias]

Interesting read from Jane Goodall


Jane Goodall Responds to Harambe's Death: 'It Looked as Though the Gorilla Was Putting an Arm Around the Child'

I think this was before all the facts came out. Like the gorilla tossing the child against the wall.

 

[Kat]

I imagine we all have seen this by now.......just more proof (to me) that animals..especially powerful ones, should be in natural habitat.
Of course this video is touching.....and Christian did remember them, but THEY had the good sense to put him where he should be, merely to protect him if for no other reason.

 

[Kat]

Interesting read from Jane Goodall


Jane Goodall Responds to Harambe's Death: 'It Looked as Though the Gorilla Was Putting an Arm Around the Child'

I think this was before all the facts came out. Like the gorilla tossing the child against the wall.

Maybe so. There were several articles with her, and I just picked one.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

I imagine we all have seen this by now.......just more proof (to me) that animals..especially powerful ones, should be in natural habitat.
Of course this video is touching.....and Christian did remember them, but THEY had the good sense to put him where he should be, merely to protect him if for no other reason.

It just as easily could have ended with Christian killing the two queers. What part of "wild animal" don't people get? They got lucky.

 

[Kat]

I imagine we all have seen this by now.......just more proof (to me) that animals..especially powerful ones, should be in natural habitat.
Of course this video is touching.....and Christian did remember them, but THEY had the good sense to put him where he should be, merely to protect him if for no other reason.

It just as easily could have ended with Christian killing the two queers. What part of "wild animal" don't people get? They got lucky.

You totally missed the point. AND your nasty comments were totally uncalled for.

Oh. And that is NOT what happened. I was making the point the wild should be in the wild...did you ever bother to read that?

 

[Fair&Balanced]

I imagine we all have seen this by now.......just more proof (to me) that animals..especially powerful ones, should be in natural habitat.
Of course this video is touching.....and Christian did remember them, but THEY had the good sense to put him where he should be, merely to protect him if for no other reason.

It just as easily could have ended with Christian killing the two queers. What part of "wild animal" don't people get? They got lucky.

You totally missed the point. AND your nasty comments were totally uncalled for.

No, I got your point, and what nasty comment? Those 2 are obviously queer. I don't judge them, I merely label them as what they are.

 

[Kat]

I imagine we all have seen this by now.......just more proof (to me) that animals..especially powerful ones, should be in natural habitat.
Of course this video is touching.....and Christian did remember them, but THEY had the good sense to put him where he should be, merely to protect him if for no other reason.

It just as easily could have ended with Christian killing the two queers. What part of "wild animal" don't people get? They got lucky.

You totally missed the point. AND your nasty comments were totally uncalled for.

No, I got your point, and what nasty comment? Those 2 are obviously queer. I don't judge them, I merely label them as what they are.

Right.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

I imagine we all have seen this by now.......just more proof (to me) that animals..especially powerful ones, should be in natural habitat.
Of course this video is touching.....and Christian did remember them, but THEY had the good sense to put him where he should be, merely to protect him if for no other reason.

It just as easily could have ended with Christian killing the two queers. What part of "wild animal" don't people get? They got lucky.

You totally missed the point. AND your nasty comments were totally uncalled for.

No, I got your point, and what nasty comment? Those 2 are obviously queer. I don't judge them, I merely label them as what they are.

Right.

Right what? They are queers. They call themselves queers. I don't get what your beef is. It's not like I referred to them as fudge packers or something.offensive.

Anyway, that was just a small part of my post. The fact is they got lucky.

 

[Kat]

I imagine we all have seen this by now.......just more proof (to me) that animals..especially powerful ones, should be in natural habitat.
Of course this video is touching.....and Christian did remember them, but THEY had the good sense to put him where he should be, merely to protect him if for no other reason.

It just as easily could have ended with Christian killing the two queers. What part of "wild animal" don't people get? They got lucky.

You totally missed the point. AND your nasty comments were totally uncalled for.

No, I got your point, and what nasty comment? Those 2 are obviously queer. I don't judge them, I merely label them as what they are.

Right.

Right what? They are queers. They call themselves queers. I don't get what your beef is. It's not like I referred to them as fudge packers or something.offensive.

Anyway, that was just a small part of my post. The fact is they got lucky.

Who said they are queers other than you? This was many many years back. I hope Staff remove any of the offending posts.


I am sorry Coyote. I did not intend to hijack your thread.

 

[emilynghiem]

I'm a former zookeeper — here's what everyone is missing about the death of Harambe

From a former zookeeper:

"I keep hearing on the news and on social media that the gorilla appeared to be trying to protect the boy from the yelling onlookers. I do not think this was the case. Harambe reaches for the boys’ hands and arms, but only to position the child better for his own displaying purposes. Males perform very elaborate displays when highly agitated, slamming and dragging things about, as Harambe did with the young child. Typically, male gorillas in captivity (and in the wild) will drag around large branches, barrels, and heavy-weighted balls to make as much noise as possible—not in an effort to hurt anyone or anything (usually), but just to intimidate. It is clear to me from Harambe’s body language that he was reacting to the screams from the gathering crowd and possibly from the child himself.

Harambe was most likely not going to separate himself from that child without seriously hurting him first—again, due to mere size and strength, not malicious intent. Why didn't the staff use food to lure Harambe away from the boy? I am under the impression that the keepers called the animals “off exhibit,” which is usually done using food as a lure; the females shifted into their indoor enclosures, but Harambe would not leave the boy. What better treat for a captive animal than a real live kid? "
=================
Gorillas are often considered to be “gentle giants,” at least when compared with their more aggressive cousins, the chimpanzee. But a 450-pound male such as Harambe has the strength of roughly 10 adult humans. What can you bench-press? Now multiply that number by 10. An adult male silverback gorilla has one job: to protect his group. He does this by bluffing or intimidating anyone and anything that he feels threatened by.

Gorillas are considered a Class I mammal, the most dangerous class of mammals in the animal kingdom—again, merely due to their size and strength. They are grouped in with other apes as well as tigers, lions, and bears. While working in an Association of Zoos and Aquariums–accredited zoo with apes, keepers do not work in direct contact with them; they never share an enclosed space with these animals. There is always a welded mesh barrier between the animal and the humans.

In recent decades, zoos have begun to redesign enclosures, removing all obvious caging in the attempt to create a seamless view of the animals in a more natural-looking habitat. Many viewing areas have glass fronts or more elaborate designs, including moats and waterfalls, as a means to keep the animals safely inside their enclosures. Walkways are lined with basic guard rails and shrubbery that can be breached, with strong enough intentions. This is fine—until little children begin falling into exhibits. This of course can happen to anyone, especially in a crowded zoo setting.

I have watched the video of Harambe and the little boy over and over again. The silverback's posturing and tight lips are a sign of agitation—a signal that the animal was stressed. Like humans, great apes have many different facial expressions that reveal what they are feeling. When a gorilla stands tense on his knuckles with shoulders high and lips tucked in tight, he is ready to intimidate whatever is threatening him.

=========

Tranquilizers may sound like a great option, but they weren’t used likely for a few different reasons. First, it would have taken too long to immobilize Harambe with tranquilizers, and in the intervening time, he could have seriously injured or killed the child. Second, it’s possible that Harambe could have drowned in the moat if immobilized in the water—which meant that he could have trapped the boy beneath him and drowned him as well.

Many zoos have the protocol to call on their expertly trained dart team in the event of an animal escape or when a human is trapped with a dangerous animal. They will evaluate the scene as quickly and as safely as possible, and will make the most informed decision as how they will handle the animal. I can't point fingers at anyone in this situation, but what’s needed is a reevaluation of the safety of the animal enclosures from the visitors’ side. It’s easy to build an exhibit so that the animals cannot escape. What is difficult is building an exhibit that showcases the animals in a natural-looking environment that mimics its wild counterpart without using caging. Caging impedes the patrons’ views of the animal, and many zoos have moved away from cages for purely aesthetic reasons. Zoo visitors want to be able to see the animals at all times, but more recent designs allows for animals to move off exhibit and out of sight if they feel the need, giving them places to hide and reducing their stress levels. Many exhibits designed in this way offer a view from above; moats and waterfalls, hills and valleys are carefully laid out to give the patron and the exhibited animal exactly what they need from the experience.

One thing I know for sure is that the keepers in Cincinnati lost a gorgeous silverback, and a friend. I feel their loss with them. As educators and conservators of endangered species, all we can do is shine a light on the beauty and majesty of these animals in hopes of sparking a love and a need to keep them from vanishing from our planet. Child killers, they are not. It's unfortunate for the boy and his family, for the conservation of the species, and for a beautiful zoo such as Cincinnati’s.

This article was adapted from a Facebook post.