Have We Been Interpreting Quantum Mechanics Wrong This Whole Time?

JimBowie1958

Old Fogey
Sep 25, 2011
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Wow, I love this shit.

Have We Been Interpreting Quantum Mechanics Wrong This Whole Time?

"The orthodox view of quantum mechanics, known as the “Copenhagen interpretation” after the home city of Danish physicist Niels Bohr, one of its architects, holds that particles play out all possible realities simultaneously. Each particle is represented by a “probability wave” weighting these various possibilities, and the wave collapses to a definite state only when the particle is measured. The equations of quantum mechanics do not address how a particle’s properties solidify at the moment of measurement, or how, at such moments, reality picks which form to take. But the calculations work. As Seth Lloyd, a quantum physicist at MIT, put it, “Quantum mechanics is just counterintuitive and we just have to suck it up.”

"A classic experiment in quantum mechanics that seems to demonstrate the probabilistic nature of reality involves a beam of particles (such as electrons) propelled one by one toward a pair of slits in a screen. When no one keeps track of each electron’s trajectory, it seems to pass through both slits simultaneously. In time, the electron beam creates a wavelike interference pattern of bright and dark stripes on the other side of the screen. But when a detector is placed in front of one of the slits, its measurement causes the particles to lose their wavelike omnipresence, collapse into definite states, and travel through one slit or the other. The interference pattern vanishes. The great 20th-century physicist Richard Feynman said that this double-slit experiment “has in it the heart of quantum mechanics,” and “is impossible, absolutely impossible, to explain in any classical way.”

"Some physicists now disagree. “Quantum mechanics is very successful; nobody’s claiming that it’s wrong,” said Paul Milewski, a professor of mathematics at the University of Bath in England who has devised computer models of
bouncing-droplet dynamics. “What we believe is that there may be, in fact, some more fundamental reason why [quantum mechanics] looks the way it does.”

Riding Waves

"The idea that pilot waves might explain the peculiarities of particles dates back to the early days of quantum mechanics. The French physicist Louis de Broglie presented the earliest version of pilot-wave theory at the 1927 Solvay Conference in Brussels, a famous gathering of the founders of the field. As de Broglie explained that day to Bohr, Albert Einstein, Erwin Schrödinger, Werner Heisenberg and two dozen other celebrated physicists, pilot-wave theory made all the same predictions as the probabilistic formulation of quantum mechanics (which wouldn’t be referred to as the “Copenhagen” interpretation until the 1950s), but without the ghostliness or mysterious collapse."
 
It's science. Gotta love how unlike religious faith it is

True. The AGWCultists are the only lunatics running around claiming "Settled science" and "Consensus"

efed7f7dcccf9fbd6730b5afd867b893.jpg


"Settled science. Science settled. Settled settled.

We have consensus"
 
Quantam mcehanics, not settled science

speed of light, not settled science

why the sun's surface is 200 times hotter than the interior, not settled science

a wisp of CO2 will melt the ice caps, and end snow. yup, totally settled. Consensus!
 
Quantam mcehanics, not settled science

speed of light, not settled science

why the sun's surface is 200 times hotter than the interior, not settled science

a wisp of CO2 will melt the ice caps, and end snow. yup, totally settled. Consensus!



Some people are just fanatical about their faith...
 
Quantam mcehanics, not settled science

speed of light, not settled science

why the sun's surface is 200 times hotter than the interior, not settled science

a wisp of CO2 will melt the ice caps, and end snow. yup, totally settled. Consensus!



Some people are just fanatical about their faith...
yep, they keep equating their faith with science, and science with their faith. crazy isn't it?
 
Wow, I love this shit.

Have We Been Interpreting Quantum Mechanics Wrong This Whole Time?

"The orthodox view of quantum mechanics, known as the “Copenhagen interpretation” after the home city of Danish physicist Niels Bohr, one of its architects, holds that particles play out all possible realities simultaneously. Each particle is represented by a “probability wave” weighting these various possibilities, and the wave collapses to a definite state only when the particle is measured. The equations of quantum mechanics do not address how a particle’s properties solidify at the moment of measurement, or how, at such moments, reality picks which form to take. But the calculations work. As Seth Lloyd, a quantum physicist at MIT, put it, “Quantum mechanics is just counterintuitive and we just have to suck it up.”

"A classic experiment in quantum mechanics that seems to demonstrate the probabilistic nature of reality involves a beam of particles (such as electrons) propelled one by one toward a pair of slits in a screen. When no one keeps track of each electron’s trajectory, it seems to pass through both slits simultaneously. In time, the electron beam creates a wavelike interference pattern of bright and dark stripes on the other side of the screen. But when a detector is placed in front of one of the slits, its measurement causes the particles to lose their wavelike omnipresence, collapse into definite states, and travel through one slit or the other. The interference pattern vanishes. The great 20th-century physicist Richard Feynman said that this double-slit experiment “has in it the heart of quantum mechanics,” and “is impossible, absolutely impossible, to explain in any classical way.”

"Some physicists now disagree. “Quantum mechanics is very successful; nobody’s claiming that it’s wrong,” said Paul Milewski, a professor of mathematics at the University of Bath in England who has devised computer models of
bouncing-droplet dynamics. “What we believe is that there may be, in fact, some more fundamental reason why [quantum mechanics] looks the way it does.”

Riding Waves

"The idea that pilot waves might explain the peculiarities of particles dates back to the early days of quantum mechanics. The French physicist Louis de Broglie presented the earliest version of pilot-wave theory at the 1927 Solvay Conference in Brussels, a famous gathering of the founders of the field. As de Broglie explained that day to Bohr, Albert Einstein, Erwin Schrödinger, Werner Heisenberg and two dozen other celebrated physicists, pilot-wave theory made all the same predictions as the probabilistic formulation of quantum mechanics (which wouldn’t be referred to as the “Copenhagen” interpretation until the 1950s), but without the ghostliness or mysterious collapse."
thank you Jimbo
 
why the sun's surface is 200 times hotter than the interior, not settled science

Actually, thats not true.

The chromosphere gets down to around 3800K while the Corona and the interior of the sun are in the miilions of Kelvin hotter.

Thats why I wonder, since the boiling point of Carbon and Tungsten and about a dozen other elements is above 3800K if we might not have lakes of these melted elements in the Chromosphere. And as carbons melting point is 3800K there could be ocassional solid sheets that move around too.

"The temperature begins to decrease from the inner boundary of about 6,000 K[3] to a minimum of approximately 3,800 K,[4] before increasing to upwards of 35,000 K[3] at the outer boundary with the transition layer of the corona."
Chromosphere - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Photosphere - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of elements - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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Dante, if carbon has a boiling point of 4300K and Tungsten is around 5800K, then what is so funny about asking if liquid states of these elements and about a dozen others might not exist along the upper Photosphere and low to mid Chronosphere?

Are you really so allergic to thinking for yourself?

"The solar heavy-element abundances described above are typically measured both using spectroscopy of the Sun's photosphere " and that is about 0.3% of the suns mass there is carbon, so that could be a lot of carbon.

Sun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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I have also taken into account pressures, though I am only guessing at them to a degree based on their density.

The Photosphere has a density of around 0.37% of Earth atmosphere at sea level which is enough to allow Carbon to form a solid state and other elements like Tungsten into a liquid state.
"The photosphere has a particle density of ~1023 m−3 (about 0.37% of the particle number per volume of Earth's atmosphere at sea level)." Sun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Hmm, it seems that carbon has a high pressure requirement to liquefy, so the carbon at less than its melting point would be SOLID, not liquid.

In the phase chart below the lowest line I think is approximately an atmosphere, not sure.

Carbon_basic_phase_diagram.png
 
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For the interpretation of quantum mechanics, maybe we can mention the swap-out of event sequences, when we look at probabilities. Pilot waves are interesting, but every event unfolds all of its outcomes in orthogonal separation. These outcomes can be swapped or collapsed or annulled between these orthogonal spaces. It is like a universal error correction loop. Considering this scenario, time itself needs not be a linear quantity, which the probability functions rely on. What I am trying to say is that it has been argued, that the probabilistic nature of quantum mechanics is an appearance, not a "law".
 
For the interpretation of quantum mechanics, maybe we can mention the swap-out of event sequences, when we look at probabilities. Pilot waves are interesting, but every event unfolds all of its outcomes in orthogonal separation. These outcomes can be swapped or collapsed or annulled between these orthogonal spaces. It is like a universal error correction loop. Considering this scenario, time itself needs not be a linear quantity, which the probability functions rely on. What I am trying to say is that it has been argued, that the probabilistic nature of quantum mechanics is an appearance, not a "law".

Do you have any links that give a layman's over-view of 'orthogonal separation'?
 
For the interpretation of quantum mechanics, maybe we can mention the swap-out of event sequences, when we look at probabilities. Pilot waves are interesting, but every event unfolds all of its outcomes in orthogonal separation. These outcomes can be swapped or collapsed or annulled between these orthogonal spaces. It is like a universal error correction loop. Considering this scenario, time itself needs not be a linear quantity, which the probability functions rely on. What I am trying to say is that it has been argued, that the probabilistic nature of quantum mechanics is an appearance, not a "law".

Do you have any links that give a layman's over-view of 'orthogonal separation'?
I guess I could paste here Google links to general orthogonality or Laplace/Fourier transforms, but I think it is better if I just write here how the maths teacher explained it the other day. He says, that any 2 things orthogonal means that they can never see each other, can't exchange information about each other, so even if they collide, they just pass through each other without ever knowing. This is orthogonal separation. For example, the x-y coordinate system is built out of 2 orthogonal dimensions, x and y, 90 degrees off each other. So, no object within the x axis can see anything in the y axis, and vice versa. The only exception is point zero, the origin. This special point is where the event happens, and if that event can have 2 possible outcomes, one will be in the x axis, the other in the y axis. In quantum mechanics, transitions between the x and y axes happen, resulting in seemingly non-causal happenings. Then we just observe the statistics of these happenings and forecast them accordingly. At this point, we have not uncovered what laws play to cause these transitions, because those laws don't sit fully within the X or y axes but somewhere else. This looks like the transitions correct various outcomes of the event that was in the point of origin.
 
I am amazed at what people respond to when I post. The stuff about the sun seems pretty intriguing to me, but not apparently to anyone else and I dont understand that.
 

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