Headed for a recession

[Dad2three]

Don't blame the Republicans for the failure of the stimulus. Your side had the House, the Senate, and the Oval Office. If you think it should have been bigger, blame the folks you voted for.



Do I have the post the chart again? These folks promised results. Those results didn't happen.

We're not even where we were told we'd be 3 years ago. It doesn't matter if big government advocates think in hindsight that the stimulus made things better. They all said it was going to work much better than it did.

You can't make promises and then try to justify failure by saying that your failure is better than nothing at all when your promise included a scenario of what you thought would happen if nothing at all was done.

Sorry you can't be honest, they NEEDED 2 votes from the GOP just to vote on it in the Senate, they got 3 BECAUSE of the giveaway's


U.S. Senate: Legislation & Records Home > Votes > Roll Call Vote



Cantor says Obama promised the stimulus would keep unemployment under 8 percent


The council’s report cited independent studies by the Congressional Budget Office and three private economic analysis companies. Here’s what the groups found:

• CBO: Between 500,000 and 2.9 million jobs saved or created.

• IHS/Global Insight: 2.4 million jobs saved or created.

• Macroeconomic Advisers: 2.6 million jobs saved or created.

• Moody’s Economy.com: 2.1 million jobs saved or created.

Our ruling

Cantor said Obama’s stimulus was passed with the "promise" of keeping the unemployment rate below 8 percent.

The majority leader says the vow was made in a January 2009 report issued by the incoming administration. But the study did not guarantee specific results from the stimulus, it offered economic projections that contained disclaimers saying the estimates had "significant margins of error" and a high degree of uncertainty due to a recession that was "unusual both in its fundamental causes and severity."

Clearly, the Obama administration can be faulted for estimating the stimulus would hold unemployment just below 8 percent. But contrary to Cantor’s claim, Obama never promised that outcome, nor did his administration.

Again, we rate the statement Mostly False.


Cantor says Obama promised the stimulus would keep unemployment under 8 percent | PolitiFact Virginia


NOW WHY DID WE NEED A STIMULUS AFTER 8 YEARS OF 'JOB CREATOR' POLICIES' AGAIN?

You claimed President Clinton cut the deficit in half in 1993. The figures I cited from President Obama's White House records show otherwise. But go ahead and claim victory. I'd love to have Bill Clinton back in charge now. I might even vote for him if we repeal the 22nd Amendment.

I really didn't like his defense strategy and I didn't like his constant pandering but in retrospect it was much better than what we have now.

I meant, and a honest person would see, cut in half over 5 years with the 1993 bill not ONE GOPer voted for


YOUR claim that it was a team effort was nonsense, as shown by their $700+ billion tax cut AFTER Bills first surplus!

It appears I've been proven correct. The Obama defender decided that I'm dishonest, and that's how things work when results don't match with promises.

Good luck, I'm done with you.

Sorry Bubba, you ARE dishonest, you make a claim but can't back it up, then expect me to 'prove' you wrong? lol


YOU CONFLATED MEDIUM HOUSEHOLD with INDIVIDUAL adults and couldn't admit your mistake, lol

 

[asterism]

Got it, Bush having households double their debt in 7 years and crashing the economy will magically be solved with Gov't policy *shaking head*



Sorry, there is a reason economy's as larges as the US have problems getting restarted after bad GOP policy


DECEMBER 2007


The Economic Consequences of Mr. Bush

The next president will have to deal with yet another crippling legacy of George W. Bush: the economy. A Nobel laureate, Joseph E. Stiglitz, sees a generation-long struggle to recoup.


The Economic Consequences of Mr. Bush | Vanity Fair





Economic Downturn and Bush Policies Continue to Drive Large Projected Deficits


The goal of reining in long-term deficits and debt would be much easier to achieve if it were not for the policies set in motion during the Bush years. That era’s tax cuts — most of which policymakers extended in this year’s American Taxpayer Relief Act, with President Obama’s support — and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan will account for almost half of the debt that we will owe, under current policies, by 2019.

By contrast, the economic recovery measures and financial rescues will account for just over 10 percent of the debt at that time

Well then maybe our President should have read Vanity Fair before making his predictions on how much better things were going to be if we elected him.

The point isn't that Bush sucked, I've conceded that. He SUCKED!

Obama isn't any better, and he's actually worse.

Without the economic downturn and the fiscal policies of the previous Administration, the budget would be roughly in balance in this decade. Even if we regard the economic downturn as unavoidable, we would have entered it with a much smaller debt — allowing us to absorb the recession’s damage to the budget and the cost of economic recovery measures, while keeping debt comfortably below 50 percent of GDP, as Figure 2 suggests. That would have put the nation on a much sounder footing to address the demographic challenges and the cost pressures in health care that darken the long-run fiscal outlook.

Economic Downturn and Legacy of Bush Policies Continue to Drive Large Deficits ? Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

Don't move the goalposts. We're talking about the economy and how it pertains to those outside of the 1%, not the budget. As to the "what if" scenario being presented, without the downturn in the economy Obama wouldn't have gotten elected in the first place.

Got it, it doesn't really matter the depth of width of the hole, it's just Obama made promises that you don't think he kept *shaking head*


TRY to get honest, the reason the US is in the hole still, is because of 8 years of 'job creator' policies, AND the GOP has tried to force down Obama's throat the past 5-1/2 years!

GOP/CONSERVATIVE POLICY NEVER WORKS

Your guy's policy doesn't work either.

Good luck with that.

 

[Dad2three]

BTW dont forget you controlled Congress his first 2 yrs

You mean for all 24 days, WHILE the economy was crashing?


The Truth is that the Democrats only had a filibuster-proof majority for 24 working days during that period. Here are the details:

Democrats only had a veto proof majority for 24 working days | Fact Left

 

[Dad2three]

Well then maybe our President should have read Vanity Fair before making his predictions on how much better things were going to be if we elected him.

The point isn't that Bush sucked, I've conceded that. He SUCKED!

Obama isn't any better, and he's actually worse.



Don't move the goalposts. We're talking about the economy and how it pertains to those outside of the 1%, not the budget. As to the "what if" scenario being presented, without the downturn in the economy Obama wouldn't have gotten elected in the first place.

Got it, it doesn't really matter the depth of width of the hole, it's just Obama made promises that you don't think he kept *shaking head*


TRY to get honest, the reason the US is in the hole still, is because of 8 years of 'job creator' policies, AND the GOP has tried to force down Obama's throat the past 5-1/2 years!

GOP/CONSERVATIVE POLICY NEVER WORKS

Your guy's policy doesn't work either.

Good luck with that.

Sure, we created the worlds largest middle class, it wasn't an accident. POLICIES matter, sorry cutting taxes for the 'job creators' does nothing for US, There is no regulations strangling the jobs, it's a lack of demand because the 'job creators' are hoarding it, how do you get it out of their hands? Let's start by going back to Reagan's top rate for his first 6 years, and get rid of conservatives 'free trade' (that 60%+ Dems voted against EVERY one) , and start with getting Gov't rebuilding America!

 

[Dad2three]

Well then maybe our President should have read Vanity Fair before making his predictions on how much better things were going to be if we elected him.

The point isn't that Bush sucked, I've conceded that. He SUCKED!

Obama isn't any better, and he's actually worse.



Don't move the goalposts. We're talking about the economy and how it pertains to those outside of the 1%, not the budget. As to the "what if" scenario being presented, without the downturn in the economy Obama wouldn't have gotten elected in the first place.

Got it, it doesn't really matter the depth of width of the hole, it's just Obama made promises that you don't think he kept *shaking head*


TRY to get honest, the reason the US is in the hole still, is because of 8 years of 'job creator' policies, AND the GOP has tried to force down Obama's throat the past 5-1/2 years!

GOP/CONSERVATIVE POLICY NEVER WORKS

Your guy's policy doesn't work either.

Good luck with that.

I'll wait patiently for your proof that median household wealth has been cut in half since 2010 too

 

[Dad2three]

100% funded.....LLMMAOOOOOOO CBO doesnt even buy that.................. CBO Quietly Drops Forecast That Obamacare Will Cut the Deficit | The Fiscal Times CYA time

Cut the deficit? lol

CBO and the staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) have updated their estimates of the budgetary effects of the provisions of the Affordable Care Act (ACA) that relate to health insurance coverage. The new estimates, which are included in CBO’s latest baseline projections, reflect CBO’s most recent economic forecast, account for administrative actions taken and regulations issued through March 2014, and incorporate new data and various modeling updates.

Relative to their previous projections made in February 2014, CBO and JCT now estimate that the ACA’s coverage provisions will result in lower net costs to the federal government: The agencies currently project a net cost of $36 billion for 2014, $5 billion less than the previous projection for the year; and $1,383 billion for the 2015–2024 period, $104 billion less than the previous projections (see the figure below).

Updated Estimates of the Effects of the Insurance Coverage Provisions of the Affordable Care Act, April 2014 - CBO


Those estimates address only the insurance coverage provisions of the ACA; they do not constitute all of the act’s budgetary effects. Many other provisions, on net, are projected to reduce budget deficits. Considering all of the provisions—including the coverage provisions—CBO and JCT estimated in July 2012 (their most recent comprehensive estimates) that the ACA’s overall effect would be to reduce federal deficits.

 

[asterism]

Sorry you can't be honest, they NEEDED 2 votes from the GOP just to vote on it in the Senate, they got 3 BECAUSE of the giveaway's


U.S. Senate: Legislation & Records Home > Votes > Roll Call Vote



Cantor says Obama promised the stimulus would keep unemployment under 8 percent


The council’s report cited independent studies by the Congressional Budget Office and three private economic analysis companies. Here’s what the groups found:

• CBO: Between 500,000 and 2.9 million jobs saved or created.

• IHS/Global Insight: 2.4 million jobs saved or created.

• Macroeconomic Advisers: 2.6 million jobs saved or created.

• Moody’s Economy.com: 2.1 million jobs saved or created.

Our ruling

Cantor said Obama’s stimulus was passed with the "promise" of keeping the unemployment rate below 8 percent.

The majority leader says the vow was made in a January 2009 report issued by the incoming administration. But the study did not guarantee specific results from the stimulus, it offered economic projections that contained disclaimers saying the estimates had "significant margins of error" and a high degree of uncertainty due to a recession that was "unusual both in its fundamental causes and severity."

Clearly, the Obama administration can be faulted for estimating the stimulus would hold unemployment just below 8 percent. But contrary to Cantor’s claim, Obama never promised that outcome, nor did his administration.

Again, we rate the statement Mostly False.


Cantor says Obama promised the stimulus would keep unemployment under 8 percent | PolitiFact Virginia


NOW WHY DID WE NEED A STIMULUS AFTER 8 YEARS OF 'JOB CREATOR' POLICIES' AGAIN?

I meant, and a honest person would see, cut in half over 5 years with the 1993 bill not ONE GOPer voted for


YOUR claim that it was a team effort was nonsense, as shown by their $700+ billion tax cut AFTER Bills first surplus!

It appears I've been proven correct. The Obama defender decided that I'm dishonest, and that's how things work when results don't match with promises.

Good luck, I'm done with you.

Sorry Bubba, you ARE dishonest, you make a claim but can't back it up, then expect me to 'prove' you wrong? lol


YOU CONFLATED MEDIUM HOUSEHOLD with INDIVIDUAL adults and couldn't admit your mistake, lol

You see, that's just crass. It's one thing to disagree on the ideas and results, it's another thing entirely to attack someone personally just for disagreeing. I openly acknowledge the intelligence of people on the left and I enjoy the debate. I am educated and experienced enough to know that very smart people can still disagree on concepts, policies, and even results sometimes because they can be subjective. I never attacked you, I gave you my view of how I think the guy you support failed. I even conceded that the guy I supported failed.

You need to wake up. The "most stupid people are conservatives" talking point was worn out in the 2008 campaign. This was back when your side promised prosperity. Against my wishes, the majority of the country backed your view. Nobody ran on "it's going to be after my second term to restore our prosperity." So you can justify the massive fail by making excuses but that still doesn't fix the problem.

So since you attacked me personally, I guess I should respond in kind. I won't. I'm a dad2four, and I'm a very involved father. About 16 years ago, I was courting a wonderful woman who had no idea about the potential of the Internet. I communicated a vision of a virtual environment with an office if she chooses but the ability to take her work to the beach if that's what she wanted too. I told her that the chances of making it huge were slim, but there was a very good living to be made by focusing on the markets the big players were ignoring and being as sophisticated as they were in getting our piece of the pie. She thought I was full of shit but 4 years later when I was President of our company and we tripled both of our incomes she saw the light. Then she wanted to expand her role and she wanted to run things.

Now she is President of the company and she absolutely loves her job. I maintain the technology infrastructure, step in where I'm needed, and I spearhead side projects. For the most part I have extensive flexibility. Most of my work days are spent in my home office. I'm the one the takes the kids to school and I'm the one that picks them up. I'm the one the school calls if a kid is sick or if there's some other problem. My wife is involved too, she does the PTA and the student conferences. She connects with the teachers at any and all of the social functions. But the mundane stuff is something my wife is glad to have me do. She doesn't like it and she'd rather be at the office. I'm glad she likes having to go the the office and deal with the employee issues and all of the other bullshit. She doesn't have to go every day though, and we take "working vacations" in addition to our actual vacations. A "working vacation" is when we have to visit a client somewhere so we spend 8-10 hours working and then we go have fun since our kids are with a sitter (sister, good friend, grandfather). Those are sweet!

All of my kids waterski, and 3 of them slalom. All of my kids are experts in technology and 2 of them program. All are well-versed in astronomy, and one of them has a telescope. They can all shoot and they know how to safeguard a weapon if they find one (don't touch it, call someone, and never play with it). It's funny, my wife thinks she got a great deal because she gets to run a company that she never thought would exist. I'm the one that got a great deal because I started a company that still exists and provides a sufficient income to live a great life and I don't even have to run it. It's being run according to my vision because the person who runs it learned from me and I still get to have input.

***************************

I tell you that because I understand the dynamics involved with guys who posture about their roles as fathers. Unless you are an outlier, you are not in the situation I've been in for a few years and the angst that bleeds through your posts is way different than me, some guy that figuratively won the lottery. Unless you're at outlier, you post so often because you don't work much. You obviously aren't celebrating your own success in this economy because - well - you are celebrating. You're justifying.


So rather than sink to your level of discourse, I'll just say that it's good you think it's important to be a Dad. It's the most important job a guy can have. Regardless of political differences, we need guys that want to be good fathers.

I'm not sure how you can do that with almost 70 posts a day, but I'm not in your situation so I don't know.

 

[asterism]

Got it, it doesn't really matter the depth of width of the hole, it's just Obama made promises that you don't think he kept *shaking head*


TRY to get honest, the reason the US is in the hole still, is because of 8 years of 'job creator' policies, AND the GOP has tried to force down Obama's throat the past 5-1/2 years!

GOP/CONSERVATIVE POLICY NEVER WORKS

Your guy's policy doesn't work either.

Good luck with that.

Sure, we created the worlds largest middle class, it wasn't an accident. POLICIES matter, sorry cutting taxes for the 'job creators' does nothing for US, There is no regulations strangling the jobs, it's a lack of demand because the 'job creators' are hoarding it, how do you get it out of their hands? Let's start by going back to Reagan's top rate for his first 6 years, and get rid of conservatives 'free trade' (that 60%+ Dems voted against EVERY one) , and start with getting Gov't rebuilding America!

"we created the worlds largest middle class"


You are obviously not talking about Obama.

 

[asterism]

Got it, it doesn't really matter the depth of width of the hole, it's just Obama made promises that you don't think he kept *shaking head*


TRY to get honest, the reason the US is in the hole still, is because of 8 years of 'job creator' policies, AND the GOP has tried to force down Obama's throat the past 5-1/2 years!

GOP/CONSERVATIVE POLICY NEVER WORKS

Your guy's policy doesn't work either.

Good luck with that.

I'll wait patiently for your proof that median household wealth has been cut in half since 2010 too

As soon as the data comes in, I'll share it.

If you have data that refutes my claim, feel free to post it.

 

[asterism]

100% funded.....LLMMAOOOOOOO CBO doesnt even buy that.................. CBO Quietly Drops Forecast That Obamacare Will Cut the Deficit | The Fiscal Times CYA time

Cut the deficit? lol

CBO and the staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) have updated their estimates of the budgetary effects of the provisions of the Affordable Care Act (ACA) that relate to health insurance coverage. The new estimates, which are included in CBO’s latest baseline projections, reflect CBO’s most recent economic forecast, account for administrative actions taken and regulations issued through March 2014, and incorporate new data and various modeling updates.

Relative to their previous projections made in February 2014, CBO and JCT now estimate that the ACA’s coverage provisions will result in lower net costs to the federal government: The agencies currently project a net cost of $36 billion for 2014, $5 billion less than the previous projection for the year; and $1,383 billion for the 2015–2024 period, $104 billion less than the previous projections (see the figure below).

Updated Estimates of the Effects of the Insurance Coverage Provisions of the Affordable Care Act, April 2014 - CBO


Those estimates address only the insurance coverage provisions of the ACA; they do not constitute all of the act’s budgetary effects. Many other provisions, on net, are projected to reduce budget deficits. Considering all of the provisions—including the coverage provisions—CBO and JCT estimated in July 2012 (their most recent comprehensive estimates) that the ACA’s overall effect would be to reduce federal deficits.

So even the rosy projections you cite aren't "deficit neutral." The best your side can do is to say that it's "mostly a wash."

http://douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/04/17/obamacare-deficits-and-empirics/

 

[Dad2three]

Your guy's policy doesn't work either.

Good luck with that.

I'll wait patiently for your proof that median household wealth has been cut in half since 2010 too

As soon as the data comes in, I'll share it.

If you have data that refutes my claim, feel free to post it.

IN OTHER WORDS YOU CLAIM THAT UNDER OBAMA NET WORTH HAS BEEN CUT IN HALF IS ABSOLUTE CRAP. As I pointed out, the REAL cutting was done under Bush and his policies...AND showed it with a link to the federal reserve, lol

 

[Dad2three]

It appears I've been proven correct. The Obama defender decided that I'm dishonest, and that's how things work when results don't match with promises.

Good luck, I'm done with you.

Sorry Bubba, you ARE dishonest, you make a claim but can't back it up, then expect me to 'prove' you wrong? lol


YOU CONFLATED MEDIUM HOUSEHOLD with INDIVIDUAL adults and couldn't admit your mistake, lol

You see, that's just crass. It's one thing to disagree on the ideas and results, it's another thing entirely to attack someone personally just for disagreeing. I openly acknowledge the intelligence of people on the left and I enjoy the debate. I am educated and experienced enough to know that very smart people can still disagree on concepts, policies, and even results sometimes because they can be subjective. I never attacked you, I gave you my view of how I think the guy you support failed. I even conceded that the guy I supported failed.

You need to wake up. The "most stupid people are conservatives" talking point was worn out in the 2008 campaign. This was back when your side promised prosperity. Against my wishes, the majority of the country backed your view. Nobody ran on "it's going to be after my second term to restore our prosperity." So you can justify the massive fail by making excuses but that still doesn't fix the problem.

So since you attacked me personally, I guess I should respond in kind. I won't. I'm a dad2four, and I'm a very involved father. About 16 years ago, I was courting a wonderful woman who had no idea about the potential of the Internet. I communicated a vision of a virtual environment with an office if she chooses but the ability to take her work to the beach if that's what she wanted too. I told her that the chances of making it huge were slim, but there was a very good living to be made by focusing on the markets the big players were ignoring and being as sophisticated as they were in getting our piece of the pie. She thought I was full of shit but 4 years later when I was President of our company and we tripled both of our incomes she saw the light. Then she wanted to expand her role and she wanted to run things.

Now she is President of the company and she absolutely loves her job. I maintain the technology infrastructure, step in where I'm needed, and I spearhead side projects. For the most part I have extensive flexibility. Most of my work days are spent in my home office. I'm the one the takes the kids to school and I'm the one that picks them up. I'm the one the school calls if a kid is sick or if there's some other problem. My wife is involved too, she does the PTA and the student conferences. She connects with the teachers at any and all of the social functions. But the mundane stuff is something my wife is glad to have me do. She doesn't like it and she'd rather be at the office. I'm glad she likes having to go the the office and deal with the employee issues and all of the other bullshit. She doesn't have to go every day though, and we take "working vacations" in addition to our actual vacations. A "working vacation" is when we have to visit a client somewhere so we spend 8-10 hours working and then we go have fun since our kids are with a sitter (sister, good friend, grandfather). Those are sweet!

All of my kids waterski, and 3 of them slalom. All of my kids are experts in technology and 2 of them program. All are well-versed in astronomy, and one of them has a telescope. They can all shoot and they know how to safeguard a weapon if they find one (don't touch it, call someone, and never play with it). It's funny, my wife thinks she got a great deal because she gets to run a company that she never thought would exist. I'm the one that got a great deal because I started a company that still exists and provides a sufficient income to live a great life and I don't even have to run it. It's being run according to my vision because the person who runs it learned from me and I still get to have input.

***************************

I tell you that because I understand the dynamics involved with guys who posture about their roles as fathers. Unless you are an outlier, you are not in the situation I've been in for a few years and the angst that bleeds through your posts is way different than me, some guy that figuratively won the lottery. Unless you're at outlier, you post so often because you don't work much. You obviously aren't celebrating your own success in this economy because - well - you are celebrating. You're justifying.


So rather than sink to your level of discourse, I'll just say that it's good you think it's important to be a Dad. It's the most important job a guy can have. Regardless of political differences, we need guys that want to be good fathers.

I'm not sure how you can do that with almost 70 posts a day, but I'm not in your situation so I don't know.

First, It's weird conservatives worry about my time spent on the internet, 3rd one today, lol. My kids are grown, BTW

Second

YOU said this

"The Obama defender decided that I'm dishonest, and that's how things work when results don't match with promises."


Sorry, when YOU make a posit, YOU should be able to back it up, instead you conflate median family wealth with individual, then run away from YOUR posit, AND ask ME to prove you wrong? lol, PROOF is on the one making the posit!!!




Yeah, the conservative thing?

Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative.

John Stuart Mill, 1866 STILL AS VALID TODAY



" talking point was worn out in the 2008 campaign"

Oh BEFORE the true extent of Dubya's economy (contracted 9%+ that last quarter) was known *shaking head*

THIS is where it takes honesty you lack!



And the quote on conservatives, doesn't mean ALL are stupid, just stupid are generally conservative. Why else would so many vote for a party against their own economic interest? I know, the conservatives think they'll hit it rich in the lottery, and benefit from the GOP war on the poor and working class with their relentless pursuit of tax cuts for the rich, though they have the longest, lowest sustained tax 'burden' on those 'job creators' without them creating jobs

In spite of right wing myths, that Dems./liberals don't think Gov't create jobs, and with record US Corp profits, 40+ year record low tax burden, they wonder why the PRIVATE MARKETS AREN'T CREATING THE JOBS? Oh but they are, only in China, Mexico, etc...AND the GOP wants to get rid of all capital gains and dividend taxes? lol

Now PLEASE make up your mind, is it Gov't's job to create jobs or PRIVATE MARKETS?


Yes, since hitting the bottom of Dubya's great recession, there have been 9+ million private sector jobs created under Obama, the deficit has been cut in half, stock markets are at record highs and just about everything ELSE (ECONOMIC INDICATORS) has been on a slow trajectory upward in the US since Obama' recovery began!

WEIRD YOU'VE NEVER ANSWERED WHY 8 YEARS OF DUBYA/GOP 'JOB CREATOR' POLICIES DIDN'T CREATE ANYTHING (EXCEPT A CRASHING ECONOMY, UNFUNDED WARS, UNFUNDED TAX CUTS, MEDICARE EXPANSION, AND 673,000+ PRIVATE SECTOR JOBS IN THOSE 8 YEARS)? YET YOU ARE UPSET AT OBAMA? LOL

 

[Dad2three]

100% funded.....LLMMAOOOOOOO CBO doesnt even buy that.................. CBO Quietly Drops Forecast That Obamacare Will Cut the Deficit | The Fiscal Times CYA time

Cut the deficit? lol

CBO and the staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) have updated their estimates of the budgetary effects of the provisions of the Affordable Care Act (ACA) that relate to health insurance coverage. The new estimates, which are included in CBO’s latest baseline projections, reflect CBO’s most recent economic forecast, account for administrative actions taken and regulations issued through March 2014, and incorporate new data and various modeling updates.

Relative to their previous projections made in February 2014, CBO and JCT now estimate that the ACA’s coverage provisions will result in lower net costs to the federal government: The agencies currently project a net cost of $36 billion for 2014, $5 billion less than the previous projection for the year; and $1,383 billion for the 2015–2024 period, $104 billion less than the previous projections (see the figure below).

Updated Estimates of the Effects of the Insurance Coverage Provisions of the Affordable Care Act, April 2014 - CBO


Those estimates address only the insurance coverage provisions of the ACA; they do not constitute all of the act’s budgetary effects. Many other provisions, on net, are projected to reduce budget deficits. Considering all of the provisions—including the coverage provisions—CBO and JCT estimated in July 2012 (their most recent comprehensive estimates) that the ACA’s overall effect would be to reduce federal deficits.

So even the rosy projections you cite aren't "deficit neutral." The best your side can do is to say that it's "mostly a wash."

http://douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/04/17/obamacare-deficits-and-empirics/

So you have a problem with reading comprehension too. Got it



"CBO and JCT estimated in July 2012 (their most recent comprehensive estimates) that the ACA’s overall effect would be to reduce federal deficits."



Weird, Medicare part D is costing as much this decade as Obamacares, but not one penny of funding for it was created by the GOP??? Weird right?

 

[Dad2three]

Your guy's policy doesn't work either.

Good luck with that.

Sure, we created the worlds largest middle class, it wasn't an accident. POLICIES matter, sorry cutting taxes for the 'job creators' does nothing for US, There is no regulations strangling the jobs, it's a lack of demand because the 'job creators' are hoarding it, how do you get it out of their hands? Let's start by going back to Reagan's top rate for his first 6 years, and get rid of conservatives 'free trade' (that 60%+ Dems voted against EVERY one) , and start with getting Gov't rebuilding America!

"we created the worlds largest middle class"


You are obviously not talking about Obama.

Liberal/Democratic policies. That conservatives fought. Weird, I can't think of a single major issue facing the US that conservatives have EVER been on the correct side of history on? You?

 

[The Rabbi]

Sure, we created the worlds largest middle class, it wasn't an accident. POLICIES matter, sorry cutting taxes for the 'job creators' does nothing for US, There is no regulations strangling the jobs, it's a lack of demand because the 'job creators' are hoarding it, how do you get it out of their hands? Let's start by going back to Reagan's top rate for his first 6 years, and get rid of conservatives 'free trade' (that 60%+ Dems voted against EVERY one) , and start with getting Gov't rebuilding America!

"we created the worlds largest middle class"


You are obviously not talking about Obama.

Liberal/Democratic policies. That conservatives fought. Weird, I can't think of a single major issue facing the US that conservatives have EVER been on the correct side of history on? You?

You cant think because you're stupid.
The truth is the Left has been wrong about every issue for 40 years.

 

[eagle1462010]

Sorry Bubba, you ARE dishonest, you make a claim but can't back it up, then expect me to 'prove' you wrong? lol


YOU CONFLATED MEDIUM HOUSEHOLD with INDIVIDUAL adults and couldn't admit your mistake, lol

You see, that's just crass. It's one thing to disagree on the ideas and results, it's another thing entirely to attack someone personally just for disagreeing. I openly acknowledge the intelligence of people on the left and I enjoy the debate. I am educated and experienced enough to know that very smart people can still disagree on concepts, policies, and even results sometimes because they can be subjective. I never attacked you, I gave you my view of how I think the guy you support failed. I even conceded that the guy I supported failed.

You need to wake up. The "most stupid people are conservatives" talking point was worn out in the 2008 campaign. This was back when your side promised prosperity. Against my wishes, the majority of the country backed your view. Nobody ran on "it's going to be after my second term to restore our prosperity." So you can justify the massive fail by making excuses but that still doesn't fix the problem.

So since you attacked me personally, I guess I should respond in kind. I won't. I'm a dad2four, and I'm a very involved father. About 16 years ago, I was courting a wonderful woman who had no idea about the potential of the Internet. I communicated a vision of a virtual environment with an office if she chooses but the ability to take her work to the beach if that's what she wanted too. I told her that the chances of making it huge were slim, but there was a very good living to be made by focusing on the markets the big players were ignoring and being as sophisticated as they were in getting our piece of the pie. She thought I was full of shit but 4 years later when I was President of our company and we tripled both of our incomes she saw the light. Then she wanted to expand her role and she wanted to run things.

Now she is President of the company and she absolutely loves her job. I maintain the technology infrastructure, step in where I'm needed, and I spearhead side projects. For the most part I have extensive flexibility. Most of my work days are spent in my home office. I'm the one the takes the kids to school and I'm the one that picks them up. I'm the one the school calls if a kid is sick or if there's some other problem. My wife is involved too, she does the PTA and the student conferences. She connects with the teachers at any and all of the social functions. But the mundane stuff is something my wife is glad to have me do. She doesn't like it and she'd rather be at the office. I'm glad she likes having to go the the office and deal with the employee issues and all of the other bullshit. She doesn't have to go every day though, and we take "working vacations" in addition to our actual vacations. A "working vacation" is when we have to visit a client somewhere so we spend 8-10 hours working and then we go have fun since our kids are with a sitter (sister, good friend, grandfather). Those are sweet!

All of my kids waterski, and 3 of them slalom. All of my kids are experts in technology and 2 of them program. All are well-versed in astronomy, and one of them has a telescope. They can all shoot and they know how to safeguard a weapon if they find one (don't touch it, call someone, and never play with it). It's funny, my wife thinks she got a great deal because she gets to run a company that she never thought would exist. I'm the one that got a great deal because I started a company that still exists and provides a sufficient income to live a great life and I don't even have to run it. It's being run according to my vision because the person who runs it learned from me and I still get to have input.

***************************

I tell you that because I understand the dynamics involved with guys who posture about their roles as fathers. Unless you are an outlier, you are not in the situation I've been in for a few years and the angst that bleeds through your posts is way different than me, some guy that figuratively won the lottery. Unless you're at outlier, you post so often because you don't work much. You obviously aren't celebrating your own success in this economy because - well - you are celebrating. You're justifying.


So rather than sink to your level of discourse, I'll just say that it's good you think it's important to be a Dad. It's the most important job a guy can have. Regardless of political differences, we need guys that want to be good fathers.

I'm not sure how you can do that with almost 70 posts a day, but I'm not in your situation so I don't know.

First, It's weird conservatives worry about my time spent on the internet, 3rd one today, lol. My kids are grown, BTW

Second

YOU said this

"The Obama defender decided that I'm dishonest, and that's how things work when results don't match with promises."


Sorry, when YOU make a posit, YOU should be able to back it up, instead you conflate median family wealth with individual, then run away from YOUR posit, AND ask ME to prove you wrong? lol, PROOF is on the one making the posit!!!




Yeah, the conservative thing?

Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative.

John Stuart Mill, 1866 STILL AS VALID TODAY



" talking point was worn out in the 2008 campaign"

Oh BEFORE the true extent of Dubya's economy (contracted 9%+ that last quarter) was known *shaking head*

THIS is where it takes honesty you lack!



And the quote on conservatives, doesn't mean ALL are stupid, just stupid are generally conservative. Why else would so many vote for a party against their own economic interest? I know, the conservatives think they'll hit it rich in the lottery, and benefit from the GOP war on the poor and working class with their relentless pursuit of tax cuts for the rich, though they have the longest, lowest sustained tax 'burden' on those 'job creators' without them creating jobs

In spite of right wing myths, that Dems./liberals don't think Gov't create jobs, and with record US Corp profits, 40+ year record low tax burden, they wonder why the PRIVATE MARKETS AREN'T CREATING THE JOBS? Oh but they are, only in China, Mexico, etc...AND the GOP wants to get rid of all capital gains and dividend taxes? lol

Now PLEASE make up your mind, is it Gov't's job to create jobs or PRIVATE MARKETS?


Yes, since hitting the bottom of Dubya's great recession, there have been 9+ million private sector jobs created under Obama, the deficit has been cut in half, stock markets are at record highs and just about everything ELSE (ECONOMIC INDICATORS) has been on a slow trajectory upward in the US since Obama' recovery began!

WEIRD YOU'VE NEVER ANSWERED WHY 8 YEARS OF DUBYA/GOP 'JOB CREATOR' POLICIES DIDN'T CREATE ANYTHING (EXCEPT A CRASHING ECONOMY, UNFUNDED WARS, UNFUNDED TAX CUTS, MEDICARE EXPANSION, AND 673,000+ PRIVATE SECTOR JOBS IN THOSE 8 YEARS)? YET YOU ARE UPSET AT OBAMA? LOL

Cherry picked data. The Crash lost all the jobs in a very short time, but Millions of jobs were created before that occurred. For most of his term the number of people working did increase

butthe job participation rate was going down. It has been going down since the 90's. A result of Free Trade.

Now, how did Obama do this create fing job you keep talking about. He INFLATED THE MARKETS.............Which how we had the damn crash to begin with. He did this with the Federal Reserve. 4.5 TRILLION in QE's............

He did it with a couple of Trillion in bail outs stimulus plans. Spending massive amounts of money with very little return.

That isn't in your dang graph now is it. And I doubt the 16.1 Trillion at the Federal Reserve back door isn't either.

Carry on with your BS.

 

[eagle1462010]

Have You Heard About The 16 Trillion Dollar Bailout The Federal Reserve Handed To The Too Big To Fail Banks?

According to the GAO audit, $16.1 trillion in secret loans were made by the Federal Reserve between December 1, 2007 and July 21, 2010. The following list of firms and the amount of money that they received was taken directly from page 131 of the GAO audit report....

Citigroup - $2.513 trillion
Morgan Stanley - $2.041 trillion
Merrill Lynch - $1.949 trillion
Bank of America - $1.344 trillion
Barclays PLC - $868 billion
Bear Sterns - $853 billion
Goldman Sachs - $814 billion
Royal Bank of Scotland - $541 billion
JP Morgan Chase - $391 billion
Deutsche Bank - $354 billion
UBS - $287 billion
Credit Suisse - $262 billion
Lehman Brothers - $183 billion
Bank of Scotland - $181 billion
BNP Paribas - $175 billion
Wells Fargo - $159 billion
Dexia - $159 billion
Wachovia - $142 billion
Dresdner Bank - $135 billion
Societe Generale - $124 billion
"All Other Borrowers" - $2.639 trillion

This report was made available to all the members of Congress, but most of them have been totally silent about it. One of the only members of Congress that has said something has been U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders.

The following is an excerpt from a statement about this audit that was taken from the official website of Senator Sanders....

"As a result of this audit, we now know that the Federal Reserve provided more than $16 trillion in total financial assistance to some of the largest financial institutions and corporations in the United States and throughout the world"

So where is everyone else?

Why aren't leading Republicans and leading Democrats crying bloody murder over this report?

This scandal should have been front page news for months when it was revealed.

But it wasn't.

 

[eagle1462010]

Holly Shit Bat Man.

We threw 18 Trillion into the system immediately after the crash.
We threw another 4.5 Trillion into the system in QE's.

 

[eagle1462010]

18 Signs That The Global Economic Crisis Is Accelerating As We Enter The Last Half Of 2014

#1 The Bank for International Settlements has issued a new report which warns that "dangerous new asset bubbles" are forming which could potentially lead to another major financial crisis. Do the central bankers know something that we don't, or are they just trying to place the blame on someone else for the giant mess that they have created?

#2 Argentina has missed a $539 million debt payment and is on the verge of its second major debt default in 13 years.

#3 Bulgaria is desperately trying to calm down a massive run on the banks that threatens of spiral out of control.

#4 Last month, household loans in the eurozone declined at the fastest rate ever recorded. Why are European banks holding on to their money so tightly right now?

#5 The number of unemployed jobseekers in France has just soared to another brand new record high.

#6 Economies all over Europe are either showing no growth or are shrinking. Just check out what a recent Forbes article had to say about the matter...

#7 A few days ago it was reported that consumer prices in Japan are rising at the fastest pace in 32 years.

#8 Household expenditures in Japan are down 8 percent compared to one year ago.

#9 U.S. companies are drowning in massive amounts of debt, but the corporate debt bubble in China is so bad that the amount of corporate debt in China has actually now surpassed the amount of corporate debt in the United States.

#10 One Chinese auditor is warning that up to 80 billion dollars worth of loans in China are backed by falsified gold transactions. What will that do to the price of gold and the stability of Chinese financial markets as that mess unwinds?

#11 The unemployment rate in Greece is currently sitting at 26.7 percent and the youth unemployment rate is 56.8 percent.

#12 67.5 percent of the people that are unemployed in Greece have been unemployed for over a year.

#13 The unemployment rate in the eurozone as a whole is 11.8 percent - just a little bit shy of the all-time record of 12.0 percent.

#14 The European Central Bank is so desperate to get money moving through the system that it has actually introduced negative interest rates.

#15 The IMF is projecting that there is a 25 percent chance that the eurozone will slip into deflation by the end of next year.

#16 The World Bank is warning that "now is the time to prepare" for the next crisis.

#17 The economic conflict between the United States and Russia continues to deepen. This has caused Russia to make a series of moves away from the U.S. dollar and toward other major currencies. This will have serious ramifications for the global financial system as time rolls along.

#18 Of course the U.S. economy is struggling right now as well. It shrank at a 2.9 percent annual rate during the first quarter of 2014, which was much worse than anyone had anticipated.

 

[Dad2three]

You see, that's just crass. It's one thing to disagree on the ideas and results, it's another thing entirely to attack someone personally just for disagreeing. I openly acknowledge the intelligence of people on the left and I enjoy the debate. I am educated and experienced enough to know that very smart people can still disagree on concepts, policies, and even results sometimes because they can be subjective. I never attacked you, I gave you my view of how I think the guy you support failed. I even conceded that the guy I supported failed.

You need to wake up. The "most stupid people are conservatives" talking point was worn out in the 2008 campaign. This was back when your side promised prosperity. Against my wishes, the majority of the country backed your view. Nobody ran on "it's going to be after my second term to restore our prosperity." So you can justify the massive fail by making excuses but that still doesn't fix the problem.

So since you attacked me personally, I guess I should respond in kind. I won't. I'm a dad2four, and I'm a very involved father. About 16 years ago, I was courting a wonderful woman who had no idea about the potential of the Internet. I communicated a vision of a virtual environment with an office if she chooses but the ability to take her work to the beach if that's what she wanted too. I told her that the chances of making it huge were slim, but there was a very good living to be made by focusing on the markets the big players were ignoring and being as sophisticated as they were in getting our piece of the pie. She thought I was full of shit but 4 years later when I was President of our company and we tripled both of our incomes she saw the light. Then she wanted to expand her role and she wanted to run things.

Now she is President of the company and she absolutely loves her job. I maintain the technology infrastructure, step in where I'm needed, and I spearhead side projects. For the most part I have extensive flexibility. Most of my work days are spent in my home office. I'm the one the takes the kids to school and I'm the one that picks them up. I'm the one the school calls if a kid is sick or if there's some other problem. My wife is involved too, she does the PTA and the student conferences. She connects with the teachers at any and all of the social functions. But the mundane stuff is something my wife is glad to have me do. She doesn't like it and she'd rather be at the office. I'm glad she likes having to go the the office and deal with the employee issues and all of the other bullshit. She doesn't have to go every day though, and we take "working vacations" in addition to our actual vacations. A "working vacation" is when we have to visit a client somewhere so we spend 8-10 hours working and then we go have fun since our kids are with a sitter (sister, good friend, grandfather). Those are sweet!

All of my kids waterski, and 3 of them slalom. All of my kids are experts in technology and 2 of them program. All are well-versed in astronomy, and one of them has a telescope. They can all shoot and they know how to safeguard a weapon if they find one (don't touch it, call someone, and never play with it). It's funny, my wife thinks she got a great deal because she gets to run a company that she never thought would exist. I'm the one that got a great deal because I started a company that still exists and provides a sufficient income to live a great life and I don't even have to run it. It's being run according to my vision because the person who runs it learned from me and I still get to have input.

***************************

I tell you that because I understand the dynamics involved with guys who posture about their roles as fathers. Unless you are an outlier, you are not in the situation I've been in for a few years and the angst that bleeds through your posts is way different than me, some guy that figuratively won the lottery. Unless you're at outlier, you post so often because you don't work much. You obviously aren't celebrating your own success in this economy because - well - you are celebrating. You're justifying.


So rather than sink to your level of discourse, I'll just say that it's good you think it's important to be a Dad. It's the most important job a guy can have. Regardless of political differences, we need guys that want to be good fathers.

I'm not sure how you can do that with almost 70 posts a day, but I'm not in your situation so I don't know.

First, It's weird conservatives worry about my time spent on the internet, 3rd one today, lol. My kids are grown, BTW

Second

YOU said this

"The Obama defender decided that I'm dishonest, and that's how things work when results don't match with promises."


Sorry, when YOU make a posit, YOU should be able to back it up, instead you conflate median family wealth with individual, then run away from YOUR posit, AND ask ME to prove you wrong? lol, PROOF is on the one making the posit!!!




Yeah, the conservative thing?

Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative.

John Stuart Mill, 1866 STILL AS VALID TODAY



" talking point was worn out in the 2008 campaign"

Oh BEFORE the true extent of Dubya's economy (contracted 9%+ that last quarter) was known *shaking head*

THIS is where it takes honesty you lack!



And the quote on conservatives, doesn't mean ALL are stupid, just stupid are generally conservative. Why else would so many vote for a party against their own economic interest? I know, the conservatives think they'll hit it rich in the lottery, and benefit from the GOP war on the poor and working class with their relentless pursuit of tax cuts for the rich, though they have the longest, lowest sustained tax 'burden' on those 'job creators' without them creating jobs

In spite of right wing myths, that Dems./liberals don't think Gov't create jobs, and with record US Corp profits, 40+ year record low tax burden, they wonder why the PRIVATE MARKETS AREN'T CREATING THE JOBS? Oh but they are, only in China, Mexico, etc...AND the GOP wants to get rid of all capital gains and dividend taxes? lol

Now PLEASE make up your mind, is it Gov't's job to create jobs or PRIVATE MARKETS?


Yes, since hitting the bottom of Dubya's great recession, there have been 9+ million private sector jobs created under Obama, the deficit has been cut in half, stock markets are at record highs and just about everything ELSE (ECONOMIC INDICATORS) has been on a slow trajectory upward in the US since Obama' recovery began!

WEIRD YOU'VE NEVER ANSWERED WHY 8 YEARS OF DUBYA/GOP 'JOB CREATOR' POLICIES DIDN'T CREATE ANYTHING (EXCEPT A CRASHING ECONOMY, UNFUNDED WARS, UNFUNDED TAX CUTS, MEDICARE EXPANSION, AND 673,000+ PRIVATE SECTOR JOBS IN THOSE 8 YEARS)? YET YOU ARE UPSET AT OBAMA? LOL

Cherry picked data. The Crash lost all the jobs in a very short time, but Millions of jobs were created before that occurred. For most of his term the number of people working did increase

butthe job participation rate was going down. It has been going down since the 90's. A result of Free Trade.

Now, how did Obama do this create fing job you keep talking about. He INFLATED THE MARKETS.............Which how we had the damn crash to begin with. He did this with the Federal Reserve. 4.5 TRILLION in QE's............

He did it with a couple of Trillion in bail outs stimulus plans. Spending massive amounts of money with very little return.

That isn't in your dang graph now is it. And I doubt the 16.1 Trillion at the Federal Reserve back door isn't either.

Carry on with your BS.

Got it, Bush's ponzi scheme popped.


QE? Oh you mean because those 'job creators' have a couple trillion sitting off shored waiting for ANOTHER GOP 'tax holiday' at 5% so they can bring back their money and layoff more US jobs?

WHY do they have the lowest sustained tax burden of the last 80 years? If they will not create jobs, why aren't we going back to a top rate of at least 50% like Ronnie had his first 6 years?