House Democrats unveil health care reform plan

[Terry]

What I laugh at is how all these liberals who stick up for these programs think they won't feel the crunch....wait until their paycheck is cut in half, no job, sick and cannot be seen...will they then turn on their chosen one? They are all about spending my money but when it comes to their's faggetabout it.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Amazing. Is healthcare guaranteed in the US Constitution?

Didn't think so.

Congress once again steps outside its bounds.

The Constitution is a document that was to be considered "etched in stone." So power mongers in couldn't distort what was written within its four borders.
The progressives seem to believe that it's a living document that was to morph as the times change. The stupidity of the American people in the last election to give the democrats the complete power over America is really coming back to haunt everyone, except the socialists, and communists. I really hope the "Blue Dog Democrats" rise above this, but I really have doubts.

Who knows? A Democratic Congress finally rebelled against Carter. But then, these fruitloops in Congress now don't have the balls to.

It's not Obama they need to rebel against - it is the money behind the lobbyists holding his leash. Same fuckers that are holding their own leashes.

-Joe

 

[Dr Grump]

I doubt you could make it on your own Grump. And yes, capitalism has made us a super power, that even you can't deny. It wouldn't have happened if we were a socialistic nation or if we were communists. But, don't worry Grump, if your ever invaded by another country we'll be there for you. Oh wait, I have to retract that, Obama is the president now. My Bad....

We have never been invaded. Doubt it would ever happen. I can happily make it on my own. Both China and the USSR are/were super powers, there's the Communist theory out the window.
I have always mooted a combination of socialism and capitalism. Each, on its own, is doomed to failure...

 

[AVG-JOE]

We'll see .

Just another retarded Democrat idea.

I don't know Gunny... We appear to have equal opportunity bullshit flowing freely from both sides of the aisle and the insurance lobby seems to be the only variable not affected negatively by the equation.

It isn't retarded Democrat -vs- retarded Republican anymore. The whole fucking congress needs to be relieved of duty for treason against the peoples treasury.

IMHO

-Hoe

When did you change your name to Hoe?

Oh,
and bummer dude,

You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later.

I didn't. It is a rare typo.

-Joe

 

[Luissa]

Please free me from socialism....it's soooo bad....and capitalism has worked sooo well...(rolls eyes)....

Socialism is for pussies who can't take care of themselves. They want to sit on their asses and collect exactly what I do for busting mine.

Capitalism works fine for people that get off their asses and get a job.

capitalism only works if you have population that is small enough to support it self.
Around the time of the current era China had to start a form of socialism because there was not enough farm land to support everyone along with war lords controling large amounts of lands while peasants had nothing. When you don't have enough to go around in the first place, you have to be alittle socialistic in order to help your people survive. If you don't socialism I guess you want the government to limit the amount of children you have.

 

[Meister]

I doubt you could make it on your own Grump. And yes, capitalism has made us a super power, that even you can't deny. It wouldn't have happened if we were a socialistic nation or if we were communists. But, don't worry Grump, if your ever invaded by another country we'll be there for you. Oh wait, I have to retract that, Obama is the president now. My Bad....

We have never been invaded. Doubt it would ever happen. I can happily make it on my own. Both China and the USSR are/were super powers, there's the Communist theory out the window.
I have always mooted a combination of socialism and capitalism. Each, on its own, is doomed to failure...

USSR was a paper tiger, and broke...They haven't risen to a super power. China I would agree is, but it's because of the all debt they have bought from a super power.
We have a combination right now of capitalism and socialism, we don't need any more.

 

[Bern80]

Socialism is for pussies who can't take care of themselves. They want to sit on their asses and collect exactly what I do for busting mine.

Capitalism works fine for people that get off their asses and get a job.

But as a societal whole, capitalism fails miserably...as the past couple of years has shown. It is driven by greed. Anything driven by such, is bound to fail in the end. Look at any third world country and see where greed gets you....99 percent of the population below the poverty line.

Who's fault is it really that people get taken advantage of? I must have missed the last credit card sales pitch where the hypnotized me into signing up for one.

Capitlism aint the problem with this country Grump. People like you are. People who at every turn blame someone else for their problems. We aren't where we are because evil capitilism is running over people. We are here because we have become lazy as a society. Luckily for you, there is political party that caters to that very mentality.

Freedom has consequences. Mainly it requires that people remain accountable to themselves. Business has the right to do pretty much anything it wants to make a bcuk. You may call that evil, but the fact that chicken shits like you won't take responsibility for is that the buck stops with you. No one makes you buy anything. The final say rests with you. At the end of the day if your too dumb to know the terms of mortgage, or think you can spend money you don't have you don't get to blame anyone but yourself.

 

[Gunny]

Socialism is for pussies who can't take care of themselves. They want to sit on their asses and collect exactly what I do for busting mine.

Capitalism works fine for people that get off their asses and get a job.

But as a societal whole, capitalism fails miserably...as the past couple of years has shown. It is driven by greed. Anything driven by such, is bound to fail in the end. Look at any third world country and see where greed gets you....99 percent of the population below the poverty line.

Capitalism does not fail miserably, nor has it failed here. It has its ups and downs.

What is socialism driven by? An aspiration to mediocrity? More like an aspiration to dependency and laziness. If you want to exist in a cookie cutter world, power to you.

I don't. I don't need someone to wipe my ass, feed me my bottle and tell me what to think. I got out of diapers 47 years ago.

 

[Dr Grump]

Who's fault is it really that people get taken advantage of? I must have missed the last credit card sales pitch where the hypnotized me into signing up for one.

Capitlism aint the problem with this country Grump. People like you are. People who at every turn blame someone else for their problems. We aren't where we are because evil capitilism is running over people. We are here because we have become lazy as a society. Luckily for you, there is political party that caters to that very mentality.

Freedom has consequences. Mainly it requires that people remain accountable to themselves. Business has the right to do pretty much anything it wants to make a bcuk. You may call that evil, but the fact that chicken shits like you won't take responsibility for is that the buck stops with you. No one makes you buy anything. The final say rests with you. At the end of the day if your too dumb to know the terms of mortgage, or think you can spend money you don't have you don't get to blame anyone but yourself.

The bolded part. I know what you mean. Just look at the flak Obama is getting for something caused by the Chimp.
Why am I the problem. I work and pay taxes. I believe in a safety net at the bottom of the cliff, not a hammock.
Fact is some people are too dumb and played for fools, and that makes the person doing so an arsehole.
As far as I'm concerned pure capitalism means "how much can I rip people off to benefit myself while leaving the rest of society to pick up the pieces".
Think Bernie Madoff, or Tyco, or Enron - there's your downside to capitalism...

 

[Bern80]

Please free me from socialism....it's soooo bad....and capitalism has worked sooo well...(rolls eyes)....

Socialism is for pussies who can't take care of themselves. They want to sit on their asses and collect exactly what I do for busting mine.

Capitalism works fine for people that get off their asses and get a job.

capitalism only works if you have population that is small enough to support it self.

The very same can be said of socialism. However that is not true of Capitilism. It works just fine when the populace holds itself accountable in terms of educating themselves.

 

[Dr Grump]

Socialism is for pussies who can't take care of themselves. They want to sit on their asses and collect exactly what I do for busting mine.

Capitalism works fine for people that get off their asses and get a job.

But as a societal whole, capitalism fails miserably...as the past couple of years has shown. It is driven by greed. Anything driven by such, is bound to fail in the end. Look at any third world country and see where greed gets you....99 percent of the population below the poverty line.

Capitalism does not fail miserably, nor has it failed here. It has its ups and downs.

What is socialism driven by? An aspiration to mediocrity? More like an aspiration to dependency and laziness. If you want to exist in a cookie cutter world, power to you.

I don't. I don't need someone to wipe my ass, feed me my bottle and tell me what to think. I got out of diapers 47 years ago.

Pure socialism is bound to fail...I've already said that.....

 

[AVG-JOE]

Please free me from socialism....it's soooo bad....and capitalism has worked sooo well...(rolls eyes)....

I doubt you could make it on your own Grump. And yes, capitalism has made us a super power, that even you can't deny. It wouldn't have happened if we were a socialistic nation or if we were communists. But, don't worry Grump, if your ever invaded by another country we'll be there for you. Oh wait, I have to retract that, Obama is the president now. My Bad....

I'm going to disagree. Sort of.

Capitalism alone did not make America a super-power. An incredible amount of natural resources, exploited by capitalism through the 70's and powerful corporate monopolies after that, using the most incredible infrastructure ever built by human kind made us a super-power.

Too bad we choose to not maintain that incredible gift of infrastructure from our parents for our kids, but holy fuck, we made some money over the last 30 years! Screw the next generation.

-Joe

 

[Bern80]

Who's fault is it really that people get taken advantage of? I must have missed the last credit card sales pitch where the hypnotized me into signing up for one.

Capitlism aint the problem with this country Grump. People like you are. People who at every turn blame someone else for their problems. We aren't where we are because evil capitilism is running over people. We are here because we have become lazy as a society. Luckily for you, there is political party that caters to that very mentality.

Freedom has consequences. Mainly it requires that people remain accountable to themselves. Business has the right to do pretty much anything it wants to make a bcuk. You may call that evil, but the fact that chicken shits like you won't take responsibility for is that the buck stops with you. No one makes you buy anything. The final say rests with you. At the end of the day if your too dumb to know the terms of mortgage, or think you can spend money you don't have you don't get to blame anyone but yourself.

The bolded part. I know what you mean. Just look at the flak Obama is getting for something caused by the Chimp.
Why am I the problem. I work and pay taxes. I believe in a safety net at the bottom of the cliff, not a hammock.
Fact is some people are too dumb and played for fools, and that makes the person doing so an arsehole.
As far as I'm concerned pure capitalism means "how much can I rip people off to benefit myself while leaving the rest of society to pick up the pieces".
Think Bernie Madoff, or Tyco, or Enron - there's your downside to capitalism...

You don't think socialism would have it's share of corrupt individuals. That would be just plain naive and dishonest. The USSR proved it is plenty rife for corruption as well.

In the case of someone being taken advantage of both sides are to blame or blameless if you look at it another way. A salesman isn't evil because you chose not to avail yourself of all the knowledge you coule when you made the deal with him. You are equally to blame if you got taken advantage of. Yes there are a ton of dumb people in this country. But as soon as start making excuses, making it okay and putting all the blame on someone else for that is when we are really going to be fucked as a nation.

Capitalism isn't what you think it is. Not on the whole anyway. I here quotes like yours all time. When the quote in the first person with themselves as big business or the evil corporations. it's rather nebulous don't you think? So who is 'I'? What companies? I'm sure you can rattle off a few, but that really isn't what constititues the world of business as a whole. Most of the businesses in this country are small busniesses are all of them trying to screw people.

Secondly you can't really be made a at a business for making money. that's their role in society and is arguably in the best interest of society. After all it is individuals that work for those major corporations you seem to so despise and if they don't make money the individuals dont' make money or possibly even have a job.

Lastly if people took a more concerted effort to educate themselves more businesses would be forced to compete in the realm of innovation rather than pinching pennies at every turn. Indeed that is happening right now because money is tight and people are now actually being forced to make concious decisions about what they spend money on. The next 5-10 years will determine what businesses coped with that reality the best.

 

[Care4all]

when they pass this bill every fucking American will have their first enema via congress

I've actually been eyeballing some land in Costa Rica.

i'm going with ya or not far behind,

and guess what?

I hear Health care is free there!





care

 

[AVG-JOE]

Socialism is for pussies who can't take care of themselves. They want to sit on their asses and collect exactly what I do for busting mine.

Capitalism works fine for people that get off their asses and get a job.

But as a societal whole, capitalism fails miserably...as the past couple of years has shown. It is driven by greed. Anything driven by such, is bound to fail in the end. Look at any third world country and see where greed gets you....99 percent of the population below the poverty line.

Who's fault is it really that people get taken advantage of? I must have missed the last credit card sales pitch where the hypnotized me into signing up for one.

Capitlism aint the problem with this country Grump. People like you are. People who at every turn blame someone else for their problems. We aren't where we are because evil capitilism is running over people. We are here because we have become lazy as a society. Luckily for you, there is political party that caters to that very mentality.

Freedom has consequences. Mainly it requires that people remain accountable to themselves. Business has the right to do pretty much anything it wants to make a bcuk. You may call that evil, but the fact that chicken shits like you won't take responsibility for is that the buck stops with you. No one makes you buy anything. The final say rests with you. At the end of the day if your too dumb to know the terms of mortgage, or think you can spend money you don't have you don't get to blame anyone but yourself.

There is more to it than that...

Where would this country be if Eisenhower hadn't collected some cash in the form of taxes and built the interstate system?

Where would we be if the government hadn't created Social Security?

Where would we be if we didn't have a peoples treasury to finance a military for defense?

Where would we be if factories had been allowed to pollute at will?

Government is just a tool. If used correctly, it can help a people build an awesome place to live. Like any other tool, it can be used both incorrectly and maliciously.

-Joe

 

[Luissa]

Socialism is for pussies who can't take care of themselves. They want to sit on their asses and collect exactly what I do for busting mine.

Capitalism works fine for people that get off their asses and get a job.

capitalism only works if you have population that is small enough to support it self.

The very same can be said of socialism. However that is not true of Capitilism. It works just fine when the populace holds itself accountable in terms of educating themselves.

or only the elite class become educated because the poor still stay poor with no way for advancment. If your population is large like say for instance China which has been a problem there long before communism took over and you only have 10% of your land that is farmable the population is too large for capitalism. You put that modern US terms where there are not enough jobs for everyone, I don't think capitalism is working very well.
You can say people need to get a job and stop being lazy but when there is no job to get, it doesn't really work that way.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Socialism is for pussies who can't take care of themselves. They want to sit on their asses and collect exactly what I do for busting mine.

Capitalism works fine for people that get off their asses and get a job.

capitalism only works if you have population that is small enough to support it self.

The very same can be said of socialism. However that is not true of Capitilism. It works just fine when the populace holds itself accountable in terms of educating themselves.

Capitalism needs a police force. Do we let everyone do anything to make a buck? How about selling their daughters? Lines have to be drawn and opportunity cannot be allowed to grow into exploitation. That is what the tool called 'government' is for.

-Joe

 

[AVG-JOE]

Please free me from socialism....it's soooo bad....and capitalism has worked sooo well...(rolls eyes)....

Socialism is for pussies who can't take care of themselves. They want to sit on their asses and collect exactly what I do for busting mine.

Capitalism works fine for people that get off their asses and get a job.

capitalism only works if you have population that is small enough to support it self.
Around the time of the current era China had to start a form of socialism because there was not enough farm land to support everyone along with war lords controling large amounts of lands while peasants had nothing. When you don't have enough to go around in the first place, you have to be alittle socialistic in order to help your people survive. If you don't socialism I guess you want the government to limit the amount of children you have.

This argument has merit. If the owners and board of directors of a chemical company lived in the town where the plant was located, would we need anti-pollution laws?

Perhaps it is time for Americans to reconnect with the definition of the word 'State'. When we were formed, I'm certain that The United States of New York, Georgia, Virginia, N. Carolina, etc. were seen as 'kind of like Europe's estranged states of England, France, Spain, Portugal, etc., but united in common defense'.

Sucks that we lost that freedom in our civil war.

-Joe

 

[AVG-JOE]

Who's fault is it really that people get taken advantage of? I must have missed the last credit card sales pitch where the hypnotized me into signing up for one.

Capitlism aint the problem with this country Grump. People like you are. People who at every turn blame someone else for their problems. We aren't where we are because evil capitilism is running over people. We are here because we have become lazy as a society. Luckily for you, there is political party that caters to that very mentality.

Freedom has consequences. Mainly it requires that people remain accountable to themselves. Business has the right to do pretty much anything it wants to make a bcuk. You may call that evil, but the fact that chicken shits like you won't take responsibility for is that the buck stops with you. No one makes you buy anything. The final say rests with you. At the end of the day if your too dumb to know the terms of mortgage, or think you can spend money you don't have you don't get to blame anyone but yourself.

The bolded part. I know what you mean. Just look at the flak Obama is getting for something caused by the Chimp.
Why am I the problem. I work and pay taxes. I believe in a safety net at the bottom of the cliff, not a hammock.
Fact is some people are too dumb and played for fools, and that makes the person doing so an arsehole.
As far as I'm concerned pure capitalism means "how much can I rip people off to benefit myself while leaving the rest of society to pick up the pieces".
Think Bernie Madoff, or Tyco, or Enron - there's your downside to capitalism...

There is a valid argument that that Madoff, Tyco and Enron would never have gotten big enough to put the kind of hurt on the market that they did, had pure capitalism been in place. Those guys had the advantage of working in a market that favored the wealth who wrote the complicated regulations.

If competition is allowed to regulate the market in concert with fair taxes and easy to understand rules regarding business conduct. Proof? I give you the American Auto Industry... Back in the 20's, 30's & 40's we had lots of independent car makers who produced decent products in every price range. By the time they completed their money generated merge into The Big 3 in the 70's we had crap for cars, powerful unions, well-paid but miserable workers, and a public clamoring for Japanese and European cars.

If the government had fostered competition in the industry instead of listening to the industry lobbyists, making laws that favored the mergers that required ownership distanced from the shop floor, would things be different now?

-Joe

 

[Navy1960]

I am completly amazed at ANYONE and let me say ANYONE that is advocating a public option or a Govt. mandated healthcare system for everyone in this nation when we have zero ability to pay for this. While the current campaign talk about taxing the rich to pay for it may sit well with someone who screams yeah make em pay what they don't realize is that those same rich are small business which create most of the new jobs in this country. This rush to socially engineer this nation into something it was NEVER intended to be and the sheer number of people that blindly follow this thinking because they have no idea of priciples in which this nation was founded upon is staggering. WE are leaving for our children a nation that will be a 3rd world country deep into debt to foreign powers to pay for this social enginering and WE SHOULD ALL BE ASHAMED if this happens . Our parents and grandparents and those that came before them left us with each generation or tried to leave a better nation than the one they received. WE will leave our children as a result of spending without paying for it for programs that are in MOST CASES beyond the scope of federal powers a nation that will be a 3rd rate power , I sure hope your free healthcare and Govt. cars and Govt. housing are worth it.