How Jesus became god'... from not being one. Bart Ehrman.

[Picaro]

Lewis the very imaginative pervert who wrote
THRU THE LOOKING GLASS

Wouldn't that have been Lewis Carrol who wrote "Through the Looking Glass?"

This is C.S. Lewis.

All those Xians look alike to Rosie.

 

[Picaro]

What happened 5781 years ago?



I'm going off of what YOU said that 5,781 years ago they formed the first societies. So according to YOUR definition there were no societies prior to 5,781 years ago.

Well, many of the Orthodox and all of the ultra-Orthodox don't consider non-Jews to be part of history or matter at all, since all history to them is Jewish history, as they are the only real people, nobody else counts, which is one of the reasons they're completely mystified as to why all those peasant uprisings against the nobility and the state always included trying to massacre Jews to the last man woman and child, as they considered it 'abnormal' for the goy to resent being extorted by their racial superiors. It written off as mere goy barbarianism and mindless hate n stuff. There are no Xians or goy in Orthodox Jewish history, except as cattle to be exploited or merely as one method God punished 'bad Jews' with. they serve no other purpose as far as the racist Jews are concerned.

 

[irosie91]

What happened 5781 years ago?



I'm going off of what YOU said that 5,781 years ago they formed the first societies. So according to YOUR definition there were no societies prior to 5,781 years ago.

Well, many of the Orthodox and all of the ultra-Orthodox don't consider non-Jews to be part of history or matter at all, since all history to them is Jewish history, as they are the only real people, nobody else counts, which is one of the reasons they're completely mystified as to why all those peasant uprisings against the nobility and the state always included trying to massacre Jews to the last man woman and child, as they considered it 'abnormal' for the goy to resent being extorted by their racial superiors. It written off as mere goy barbarianism and mindless hate n stuff. There are no Xians or goy in Orthodox Jewish history, except as cattle to be exploited or merely as one method God punished 'bad Jews' with. they serve no other purpose as far as the racist Jews are concerned.

I understand your POV----I grew up in a nazi wasp enclave----you are repeating the filth taught to you by your sunday school whore. I did sunday school too-----the local WASP bitches thought they were doing me a favor by bringing me with their daughters to the shit hole churches on sunday

 

[alang1216]

Am I criticizing anyone? Am I saying I was better? Am I suggesting it should have been done differently? No.

Your judgement is to accept genocide, pain, and suffering. That is your right.

In my judgement, those things are wrong. Is there a good reason that is the only way things can be designed to be? None that I can see. Now do you understand?

Holy shit, there you go again with your dishonest arguments.

No, I don't understand. You start with an argument you don't believe to arrive at what you do believe. Totally illogical. Doesn't make any sense at all. It's a self fulfilling prophecy that ass fucks logic and reason.

P.S. and you are still judging God. So just to be clear, you believe you know better than the creator of existence, right?

Assuming God exists (do I always have to start off with that?) and He is perfect, I certainly see lots of imperfection in this world. I'd judge He's not living up to his potential. Would creation fall apart if there were no viruses?

Your judgments don't seem to assume God is perfect. Your judgments seem to assume God is imperfect.

So is your assumption that if God is perfect (whatever that means) that what He created should be perfect too? There are a couple of ways I can approach this.

What God created is perfect for its purpose and objective which is the Catholic thought.
That with infinite wisdom and goodness God freely willed to create a world "in a state of journeying" towards its ultimate perfection. In God's plan this process of becoming involves the appearance of certain beings and the disappearance of others, the existence of the more perfect alongside the less perfect, both constructive and destructive forces of nature. With physical good there exists also physical evil as long as creation has not reached perfection. For almighty God. . ., because he is supremely good, would never allow any evil whatsoever to exist in his works if he were not so all-powerful and good as to cause good to emerge from evil itself.

Or Jewish thought that whatever imperfections which exist are imperfections of matter and consequence of free will. That whatever is formed of any matter receives the most perfect form possible in that species of matter: in each individual case the defects are in accordance with the defects of that individual matter and that these are very few and rare. Such that is cannot be said that God directly creates evil, or He has the direct intention to produce evil. That God only produces existence, and all existence is good. That the great evils which men cause to each other because of certain intentions, desires, opinions, or religious principles, originate in ignorance, which is absence of wisdom. The numerous evils to which individual persons are exposed are due to the defects existing in the persons themselves. We suffer from the evils which we, by our own free will, inflict on ourselves and ascribe them to God, who is far from being connected with them. Man himself is the author of this class of evils. The error of the ignorant goes so far as to say that God's power is insufficient, because He has given to this Universe the properties which they imagine cause these great evils.

But what struck me most about your post was your description that God is supposed to be perfect. Perfect what and what exactly does that mean to you? Because I think it is your misguided and biased perception of God which has you confused.

All my life I've been told God is real, he is loving, he is perfect, and he is watching over us. So far as I can see, none of that is true. Maybe God's not evil but he created a world filled with it. You're always saying there is a reason, what is the reason for COVID 19?

 

[alang1216]

Like Disraeli said, Christianity is completed Judaism. Jews didn't become monotheistic until Deutro-Isaiah, and since universalism is implicit in monotheism, Judaism became explicitly universal via Christianity.

I agree about Jewish monotheism but not the rest.

More trivia from Ehrman: Christianity began as a minor cult of Judaism but it soon diverged into two opposing camps centered on the question of did Christians have to first become Jews. The Christians in Israel believed so, those of the diaspora said no. It was Roman pagans that decided the issue by wiping out the Christian Jews of Jerusalem when the Jews revolted.

It was certainly trivial, since it's false. Few Christian Jews remained in Jerusalem by the time of the Revolt; they wer already scattered faer and wide, having been persecuted already, with most of them killed long before Paul was executed in Rome. The Jerusalem Jews themselves killed most of them, like his brother James and many others. The Second Jewish Revolt, the bar Kokhba revolt, finished the split and drove Christians out of the synagogues, also accompanied by massacres of Christians by Orthodox Jews and Pharisees, who made up most of the new 'Rabbis' running around. Christianity spread quickly and widely, as did most Jews who had converted.

You may be right about some of the timings since what I wrote was not just taken from Ehrman.

I think it is safe to say most Jews did not convert and became targets of Christians. Christianity grew by conversions of pagans. It was still a small minority of the Roman world until Constantine.

Erhman also has problems with timelines; it's one of the reasons he's easy to refute. And a lot of Jews did convert; there were a lot more Jews than the Jews of Jerusalem, and far more of them were alienated by the Temple Jews set up in power by Darius and the Persians; the racist Jews just never bothered to record their histories, since they were 'tainted' and of no worth, their only function to line the pockets of the 'real Jews' as determined by the 'pure' Jews. Certainly gentiels became converts, as I said Judaism became universal vis Christianity, , and they were already spread all over the Roman world before Constantine was even born. The only reason the malcontents and pagans snivel about 'Constantine' all the time is they think if they can peddle the nonsense he rewrote everything then whatever rubbish they fell like revising is valid as well, i.e. they're stupid and loony.

It is my understanding that Jews did NOT convert in large numbers. Got a link that says different?

How many Jews became Christians in the first century?

The failure of the Christian mission to the Jews1 David C Sim2 Australian Catholic University Research Associate: Department of New Testament Studies University of Pretoria​

Abstract This study examines the early Christian mission(s) to the Jews, and attempts to determine, albeit speculatively, the number of Jews in the Christian movement in the first century. It is argued that the combined Christian mission was marked by a distinct lack of success. Neither the Law-observant gospel of the Jerusalem church nor the Law-free gospel of the Hellenists and Paul made much impression upon the people of Israel. Throughout the first century the total number of Jews in the Christian movement probably never exceeded 1 000 and by the end of the century the Christian church was largely Gentile.

 

[ding]

so? you are wrong

Only one time. That was when I thought I was wrong about something and later discovered I was really right. As for you though, it would do your soul good to admit your mistakes.

Lots of them BEOWULF was put into written form about 1000 years ago. Homer did the ODYSSEY and the ILIAD and Virgil did the AENEID ----did you make it thru junior high school? You never read the GILGAMESH? how about 1001 arabian nights?

Holy shit, that was some serious dodge on your part. I don't believe you know jack shit about this.

 

[ding]

I am still wondering what it was that made 3761 BC so special?

Timeline for the History of Judaism

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

bit.ly

I am still wondering what it was that made 3761 BC so special?

Timeline for the History of Judaism

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

bit.ly

Thanks, but I'm still not seeing it and I don't think irosie91 knows either.

 

[ding]

Am I criticizing anyone? Am I saying I was better? Am I suggesting it should have been done differently? No.

Your judgement is to accept genocide, pain, and suffering. That is your right.

In my judgement, those things are wrong. Is there a good reason that is the only way things can be designed to be? None that I can see. Now do you understand?

Holy shit, there you go again with your dishonest arguments.

No, I don't understand. You start with an argument you don't believe to arrive at what you do believe. Totally illogical. Doesn't make any sense at all. It's a self fulfilling prophecy that ass fucks logic and reason.

P.S. and you are still judging God. So just to be clear, you believe you know better than the creator of existence, right?

Assuming God exists (do I always have to start off with that?) and He is perfect, I certainly see lots of imperfection in this world. I'd judge He's not living up to his potential. Would creation fall apart if there were no viruses?

Your judgments don't seem to assume God is perfect. Your judgments seem to assume God is imperfect.

So is your assumption that if God is perfect (whatever that means) that what He created should be perfect too? There are a couple of ways I can approach this.

What God created is perfect for its purpose and objective which is the Catholic thought.
That with infinite wisdom and goodness God freely willed to create a world "in a state of journeying" towards its ultimate perfection. In God's plan this process of becoming involves the appearance of certain beings and the disappearance of others, the existence of the more perfect alongside the less perfect, both constructive and destructive forces of nature. With physical good there exists also physical evil as long as creation has not reached perfection. For almighty God. . ., because he is supremely good, would never allow any evil whatsoever to exist in his works if he were not so all-powerful and good as to cause good to emerge from evil itself.

Or Jewish thought that whatever imperfections which exist are imperfections of matter and consequence of free will. That whatever is formed of any matter receives the most perfect form possible in that species of matter: in each individual case the defects are in accordance with the defects of that individual matter and that these are very few and rare. Such that is cannot be said that God directly creates evil, or He has the direct intention to produce evil. That God only produces existence, and all existence is good. That the great evils which men cause to each other because of certain intentions, desires, opinions, or religious principles, originate in ignorance, which is absence of wisdom. The numerous evils to which individual persons are exposed are due to the defects existing in the persons themselves. We suffer from the evils which we, by our own free will, inflict on ourselves and ascribe them to God, who is far from being connected with them. Man himself is the author of this class of evils. The error of the ignorant goes so far as to say that God's power is insufficient, because He has given to this Universe the properties which they imagine cause these great evils.

But what struck me most about your post was your description that God is supposed to be perfect. Perfect what and what exactly does that mean to you? Because I think it is your misguided and biased perception of God which has you confused.

All my life I've been told God is real, he is loving, he is perfect, and he is watching over us. So far as I can see, none of that is true. Maybe God's not evil but he created a world filled with it. You're always saying there is a reason, what is the reason for COVID 19?

Seems to me that you blame God for the bad acts of man and imperfections of matter. Every living thing dies. It's a requirement for genesis to occur.

Tell me how it would work in your world if you were God.

The reason for Covid 19 is that it mutated. Viruses exist in nature and play a role in nature. They serve a purpose.

Funny how you want to blame God for the bad but aren't willing to give God credit for the good... which BTW dwarfs the bad. Unless of course you believe existence is bad.

 

[james bond]

I'm more fun than a barrel full of monkeys.

Maybe you are to those who know you, but your perception here is hardly the humorous type. You're more serious.

 

[james bond]

All my life I've been told God is real, he is loving, he is perfect, and he is watching over us. So far as I can see, none of that is true. Maybe God's not evil but he created a world filled with it. You're always saying there is a reason, what is the reason for COVID 19?

You've never explained who explained God is real, he is loving, he is perfect, and he is watching over us. However, you say that to ding. too (w/o explanation), when he said, " Your judgments don't seem to assume God is perfect. Your judgments seem to assume God is imperfect."

I have to agree that you complain against God, blame God, and assume he is imperfect and give no explanation.

 

[BreezeWood]

Assuming God exists (do I always have to start off with that?) and He is perfect, I certainly see lots of imperfection in this world. I'd judge He's not living up to his potential. Would creation fall apart if there were no viruses?

Yes, God exists and he is perfect. It is always wrong and a sin to assume God doesn't exist, but here we are because of liberal, atheist, and evolutionary thinking. We even worship the science of atheism today. It is a sinful science of paganism that we put before real science. We were perfect creatures and God lived with us back then, but for Adam's sin against God he brought death into this life, two covenants, and more sin.

Does god hear you when you pray?

What is your point with this line of questioning? I already said as a child I prayed for a bicycle and got a bicycle.

Some just don't like to admit that God obviously ignores total assholes and never gives them what they want.

Life has been very good to me and Stalin died peacefully in his bed. You're either wrong about God or wrong about assholes.

You think Stalin prayed? lol he was a sociopath, just smarter than his enemy sociopaths is all. You probably would think of him ans a hero. And I'm not surprised you missed my point.

stalin was a DIVINITY STUDENT----so outstanding that the priests were convinced that he would become a PRIEST (eastern orthodox church)

So what? Lots of sociopaths who want power will infiltrate religious hierarchies; just look at all the crazy loony Rabbis running around; just read Erutz Sheva for a week, as they really enjoy reporting on them a lot. Look at all the faggots who infiltrated the Catholic Church and the Boy Scouts for an example of what happens when a bureaucracy fails to weed out deviants and sociopaths.

.

- when a bureaucracy fails to weed out deviants and sociopaths.

.
that's been entrusted to you - sicko. the new bloodline has arrived.

 

[zaangalewa]

Assuming God exists (do I always have to start off with that?) and He is perfect, I certainly see lots of imperfection in this world. I'd judge He's not living up to his potential. Would creation fall apart if there were no viruses?

Yes, God exists and he is perfect. It is always wrong and a sin to assume God doesn't exist, but here we are because of liberal, atheist, and evolutionary thinking. We even worship the science of atheism today. It is a sinful science of paganism that we put before real science. We were perfect creatures and God lived with us back then, but for Adam's sin against God he brought death into this life, two covenants, and more sin.

Does god hear you when you pray?

What is your point with this line of questioning? I already said as a child I prayed for a bicycle and got a bicycle.

Some just don't like to admit that God obviously ignores total assholes and never gives them what they want.

Life has been very good to me and Stalin died peacefully in his bed. You're either wrong about God or wrong about assholes.

You think Stalin prayed? lol he was a sociopath, just smarter than his enemy sociopaths is all. You probably would think of him ans a hero. And I'm not surprised you missed my point.

stalin was a DIVINITY STUDENT----so outstanding that the priests were convinced that he would become a PRIEST (eastern orthodox church)

So what? Lots of sociopaths who want power will infiltrate religious hierarchies; just look at all the crazy loony Rabbis running around; just read Erutz Sheva for a week, as they really enjoy reporting on them a lot.

true Josef Stalin was a top notch divinity student.
Martin Luther is considered a founder of the protestants sects------well, at least LUTHERANISM.
The murderer Constantine is a "SAINT" and then there is Pope Frank and Josef Goebbels and wife
Magda were ardent catholics. Our dear pic imagines, in his delirium, something about
seven Erutzes

Are we now supposed to cite crazy Rabbis and Jewish cult crazies for the 17th century now?

to which 17 th century are you referring-----keep
in mind----we are moving into the year 5781

What happened 5781 years ago?

The people of the funnelbeaker culture made funnelbeackers, which we found, so we called the funnelbeacker culture funnelbeacker culture.

 

[zaangalewa]

... What was the approximate date of the first epic poem?

Sîn-leqe-unnīnnī wrote down the last version of Gilgamesh epos in the 13th century before Christ. But before existed also versions of this epos from the king of Uruk and his friend Enkidu.

 

[Picaro]

Like Disraeli said, Christianity is completed Judaism. Jews didn't become monotheistic until Deutro-Isaiah, and since universalism is implicit in monotheism, Judaism became explicitly universal via Christianity.

I agree about Jewish monotheism but not the rest.

More trivia from Ehrman: Christianity began as a minor cult of Judaism but it soon diverged into two opposing camps centered on the question of did Christians have to first become Jews. The Christians in Israel believed so, those of the diaspora said no. It was Roman pagans that decided the issue by wiping out the Christian Jews of Jerusalem when the Jews revolted.

It was certainly trivial, since it's false. Few Christian Jews remained in Jerusalem by the time of the Revolt; they wer already scattered faer and wide, having been persecuted already, with most of them killed long before Paul was executed in Rome. The Jerusalem Jews themselves killed most of them, like his brother James and many others. The Second Jewish Revolt, the bar Kokhba revolt, finished the split and drove Christians out of the synagogues, also accompanied by massacres of Christians by Orthodox Jews and Pharisees, who made up most of the new 'Rabbis' running around. Christianity spread quickly and widely, as did most Jews who had converted.

You may be right about some of the timings since what I wrote was not just taken from Ehrman.

I think it is safe to say most Jews did not convert and became targets of Christians. Christianity grew by conversions of pagans. It was still a small minority of the Roman world until Constantine.

Erhman also has problems with timelines; it's one of the reasons he's easy to refute. And a lot of Jews did convert; there were a lot more Jews than the Jews of Jerusalem, and far more of them were alienated by the Temple Jews set up in power by Darius and the Persians; the racist Jews just never bothered to record their histories, since they were 'tainted' and of no worth, their only function to line the pockets of the 'real Jews' as determined by the 'pure' Jews. Certainly gentiels became converts, as I said Judaism became universal vis Christianity, , and they were already spread all over the Roman world before Constantine was even born. The only reason the malcontents and pagans snivel about 'Constantine' all the time is they think if they can peddle the nonsense he rewrote everything then whatever rubbish they fell like revising is valid as well, i.e. they're stupid and loony.

It is my understanding that Jews did NOT convert in large numbers. Got a link that says different?

How many Jews became Christians in the first century?

The failure of the Christian mission to the Jews1 David C Sim2 Australian Catholic University Research Associate: Department of New Testament Studies University of Pretoria​

Abstract This study examines the early Christian mission(s) to the Jews, and attempts to determine, albeit speculatively, the number of Jews in the Christian movement in the first century. It is argued that the combined Christian mission was marked by a distinct lack of success. Neither the Law-observant gospel of the Jerusalem church nor the Law-free gospel of the Hellenists and Paul made much impression upon the people of Israel. Throughout the first century the total number of Jews in the Christian movement probably never exceeded 1 000 and by the end of the century the Christian church was largely Gentile.

Rubbish. You're buying the myth that Jews only existed in Jerusalem and that only those who were the Orthodox were Jews. The Peanut Gallery can read Paul Johnson's History Of The Jews in tandem with James Carroll's criticism of the Catholic Church's antisemitism, Constantine's Sword, for good intro summaries of the conflict in that day before moving on to more detailed histories; the Jews were divided into several factions, not just Christians vs 'The' Jews, for one, and of course the ministry didn't start and end on the Temple steps, either. The Catholic conservatives never liked the idea of Jewish Christians, and neither did the Orthodox Jews who lost money and power to them; they both complimented each others' bigotry and malicious hatred of ' infidels'.

 

[ding]

I'm more fun than a barrel full of monkeys.

Maybe you are to those who know you, but your perception here is hardly the humorous type. You're more serious.

I can be both.

 

[esalla]

... What was the approximate date of the first epic poem?

Sîn-leqe-unnīnnī wrote down the last version of Gilgamesh epos in the 13th century before Christ. But before existed also versions of this epos from the king of Uruk and his friend Enkidu.

What did they write on and how was it stored so that losers could waste their time reading it

 

[esalla]

Assuming God exists (do I always have to start off with that?) and He is perfect, I certainly see lots of imperfection in this world. I'd judge He's not living up to his potential. Would creation fall apart if there were no viruses?

Yes, God exists and he is perfect. It is always wrong and a sin to assume God doesn't exist, but here we are because of liberal, atheist, and evolutionary thinking. We even worship the science of atheism today. It is a sinful science of paganism that we put before real science. We were perfect creatures and God lived with us back then, but for Adam's sin against God he brought death into this life, two covenants, and more sin.

Does god hear you when you pray?

What is your point with this line of questioning? I already said as a child I prayed for a bicycle and got a bicycle.

Some just don't like to admit that God obviously ignores total assholes and never gives them what they want.

Life has been very good to me and Stalin died peacefully in his bed. You're either wrong about God or wrong about assholes.

You think Stalin prayed? lol he was a sociopath, just smarter than his enemy sociopaths is all. You probably would think of him ans a hero. And I'm not surprised you missed my point.

stalin was a DIVINITY STUDENT----so outstanding that the priests were convinced that he would become a PRIEST (eastern orthodox church)

So what? Lots of sociopaths who want power will infiltrate religious hierarchies; just look at all the crazy loony Rabbis running around; just read Erutz Sheva for a week, as they really enjoy reporting on them a lot.

true Josef Stalin was a top notch divinity student.
Martin Luther is considered a founder of the protestants sects------well, at least LUTHERANISM.
The murderer Constantine is a "SAINT" and then there is Pope Frank and Josef Goebbels and wife
Magda were ardent catholics. Our dear pic imagines, in his delirium, something about
seven Erutzes

Are we now supposed to cite crazy Rabbis and Jewish cult crazies for the 17th century now?

to which 17 th century are you referring-----keep
in mind----we are moving into the year 5781

What happened 5781 years ago?

The people of the funnelbeaker culture made funnelbeackers, which we found, so we called the funnelbeacker culture funnelbeacker culture.

Is that video from 5000 BC

 

[alang1216]

Am I criticizing anyone? Am I saying I was better? Am I suggesting it should have been done differently? No.

Your judgement is to accept genocide, pain, and suffering. That is your right.

In my judgement, those things are wrong. Is there a good reason that is the only way things can be designed to be? None that I can see. Now do you understand?

Holy shit, there you go again with your dishonest arguments.

No, I don't understand. You start with an argument you don't believe to arrive at what you do believe. Totally illogical. Doesn't make any sense at all. It's a self fulfilling prophecy that ass fucks logic and reason.

P.S. and you are still judging God. So just to be clear, you believe you know better than the creator of existence, right?

Assuming God exists (do I always have to start off with that?) and He is perfect, I certainly see lots of imperfection in this world. I'd judge He's not living up to his potential. Would creation fall apart if there were no viruses?

Your judgments don't seem to assume God is perfect. Your judgments seem to assume God is imperfect.

So is your assumption that if God is perfect (whatever that means) that what He created should be perfect too? There are a couple of ways I can approach this.

What God created is perfect for its purpose and objective which is the Catholic thought.
That with infinite wisdom and goodness God freely willed to create a world "in a state of journeying" towards its ultimate perfection. In God's plan this process of becoming involves the appearance of certain beings and the disappearance of others, the existence of the more perfect alongside the less perfect, both constructive and destructive forces of nature. With physical good there exists also physical evil as long as creation has not reached perfection. For almighty God. . ., because he is supremely good, would never allow any evil whatsoever to exist in his works if he were not so all-powerful and good as to cause good to emerge from evil itself.

Or Jewish thought that whatever imperfections which exist are imperfections of matter and consequence of free will. That whatever is formed of any matter receives the most perfect form possible in that species of matter: in each individual case the defects are in accordance with the defects of that individual matter and that these are very few and rare. Such that is cannot be said that God directly creates evil, or He has the direct intention to produce evil. That God only produces existence, and all existence is good. That the great evils which men cause to each other because of certain intentions, desires, opinions, or religious principles, originate in ignorance, which is absence of wisdom. The numerous evils to which individual persons are exposed are due to the defects existing in the persons themselves. We suffer from the evils which we, by our own free will, inflict on ourselves and ascribe them to God, who is far from being connected with them. Man himself is the author of this class of evils. The error of the ignorant goes so far as to say that God's power is insufficient, because He has given to this Universe the properties which they imagine cause these great evils.

But what struck me most about your post was your description that God is supposed to be perfect. Perfect what and what exactly does that mean to you? Because I think it is your misguided and biased perception of God which has you confused.

All my life I've been told God is real, he is loving, he is perfect, and he is watching over us. So far as I can see, none of that is true. Maybe God's not evil but he created a world filled with it. You're always saying there is a reason, what is the reason for COVID 19?

Seems to me that you blame God for the bad acts of man and imperfections of matter. Every living thing dies. It's a requirement for genesis to occur.

Tell me how it would work in your world if you were God.

The reason for Covid 19 is that it mutated. Viruses exist in nature and play a role in nature. They serve a purpose.

Funny how you want to blame God for the bad but aren't willing to give God credit for the good... which BTW dwarfs the bad. Unless of course you believe existence is bad.

I would not judge men when they die. No heaven and no hell. I would not intervene in human affairs.

I have an aquarium but I have no idea which goldfish are good and which are bad, I let them work it out for themselves. I do intervene if they get ill and ensure they have enough to eat because I like them.

 

[esalla]

Am I criticizing anyone? Am I saying I was better? Am I suggesting it should have been done differently? No.

Your judgement is to accept genocide, pain, and suffering. That is your right.

In my judgement, those things are wrong. Is there a good reason that is the only way things can be designed to be? None that I can see. Now do you understand?

Holy shit, there you go again with your dishonest arguments.

No, I don't understand. You start with an argument you don't believe to arrive at what you do believe. Totally illogical. Doesn't make any sense at all. It's a self fulfilling prophecy that ass fucks logic and reason.

P.S. and you are still judging God. So just to be clear, you believe you know better than the creator of existence, right?

Assuming God exists (do I always have to start off with that?) and He is perfect, I certainly see lots of imperfection in this world. I'd judge He's not living up to his potential. Would creation fall apart if there were no viruses?

Your judgments don't seem to assume God is perfect. Your judgments seem to assume God is imperfect.

So is your assumption that if God is perfect (whatever that means) that what He created should be perfect too? There are a couple of ways I can approach this.

What God created is perfect for its purpose and objective which is the Catholic thought.
That with infinite wisdom and goodness God freely willed to create a world "in a state of journeying" towards its ultimate perfection. In God's plan this process of becoming involves the appearance of certain beings and the disappearance of others, the existence of the more perfect alongside the less perfect, both constructive and destructive forces of nature. With physical good there exists also physical evil as long as creation has not reached perfection. For almighty God. . ., because he is supremely good, would never allow any evil whatsoever to exist in his works if he were not so all-powerful and good as to cause good to emerge from evil itself.

Or Jewish thought that whatever imperfections which exist are imperfections of matter and consequence of free will. That whatever is formed of any matter receives the most perfect form possible in that species of matter: in each individual case the defects are in accordance with the defects of that individual matter and that these are very few and rare. Such that is cannot be said that God directly creates evil, or He has the direct intention to produce evil. That God only produces existence, and all existence is good. That the great evils which men cause to each other because of certain intentions, desires, opinions, or religious principles, originate in ignorance, which is absence of wisdom. The numerous evils to which individual persons are exposed are due to the defects existing in the persons themselves. We suffer from the evils which we, by our own free will, inflict on ourselves and ascribe them to God, who is far from being connected with them. Man himself is the author of this class of evils. The error of the ignorant goes so far as to say that God's power is insufficient, because He has given to this Universe the properties which they imagine cause these great evils.

But what struck me most about your post was your description that God is supposed to be perfect. Perfect what and what exactly does that mean to you? Because I think it is your misguided and biased perception of God which has you confused.

All my life I've been told God is real, he is loving, he is perfect, and he is watching over us. So far as I can see, none of that is true. Maybe God's not evil but he created a world filled with it. You're always saying there is a reason, what is the reason for COVID 19?

Seems to me that you blame God for the bad acts of man and imperfections of matter. Every living thing dies. It's a requirement for genesis to occur.

Tell me how it would work in your world if you were God.

The reason for Covid 19 is that it mutated. Viruses exist in nature and play a role in nature. They serve a purpose.

Funny how you want to blame God for the bad but aren't willing to give God credit for the good... which BTW dwarfs the bad. Unless of course you believe existence is bad.

I would not judge men when they die. No heaven and no hell. I would not intervene in human affairs.

I have an aquarium but I have no idea which goldfish are good and which are bad, I let them work it out for themselves. I do intervene if they get ill and ensure they have enough to eat because I like them.

LOL so if you had a murdering goldfish you would just watch it kill the other fish

Very godlike

You have any extra meth?

 

[alang1216]

All my life I've been told God is real, he is loving, he is perfect, and he is watching over us. So far as I can see, none of that is true. Maybe God's not evil but he created a world filled with it. You're always saying there is a reason, what is the reason for COVID

You've never explained who explained God is real, he is loving, he is perfect, and he is watching over us. However, you say that to ding. too (w/o explanation), when he said, " Your judgments don't seem to assume God is perfect. Your judgments seem to assume God is imperfect."

I have to agree that you complain against God, blame God, and assume he is imperfect and give no explanation.

If I asked you about God would you describe him as is real, as loving, as perfect, and as watching over us?

I've been told God is perfect but His actions doesn't fit my definition of perfect. To me perfection requires no change and, IMHO, God has evolved like everything else.