How long would society last after an unexpected persistent continental blackout?

[gipper]

You would have already been consumed by my pigs.

Not likely but I might have a nice bbq, after putting you six feet under.

 

[AMart]

The feral urban dwellers 100% dependent on gubmint freebies would start going crazy the first day. Full blown chaos within 3 days. That definition is where your neighbor helped you days 1-2 and day 3 you decide to kill him because they have some nice stuff and you want it.

 

[ozro]

Not likely but I might have a nice bbq, after putting you six feet under.

As I said previous, let's try it. When the dogs get done with you, the hogs will eat the rest. You will be my bacon in a few months.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

In places where Hurricanes or tornados or earthquakes happen people are used to being without power. I went 2 weeks after one hurricane without power

 

[1srelluc]

I wouldn’t consume those pigs after that.

Long Pork in Pork....Dividing by 0?

 

[1srelluc]

In places where Hurricanes or tornados or earthquakes happen people are used to being without power. I went 2 weeks after one hurricane without power

Then again you knew relief was on it's way and were at least somewhat prepared (I hope) for a prolonged outage.....Now consider people who have never been inconvenienced in their entire lives and who depend on door dash for their daily substance.....It won't be pretty.

 

[gipper]

As I said previous, let's try it. When the dogs get done with you, the hogs will eat the rest. You will be my bacon in a few months.

Cannibal!

 

[Care4all]

We had to survive 7 days of complete blackout, from a bad ice storm.

Initially, it was, oh darn, I wonder how long the power will be out? We began gathering our supplies like lanterns, oil lamps, flashlights....

Not long, we were Jones ing for the internet and Tv... Wishing we could be online, to get some information on what was going on, we checked Matt's cell phone for service, he had none. Went to use the landline, and all our phones came from a plugged in to electric phone system, and couldn't find any of our old direct plug in phones in the attic that we thought we had, that would have worked without electric....house is starting to get really cold...then we started figuring out what to do for heat....we had a cord of wood outside, of which the tarp blew off and was covered in an inch plus of ice, all the trees in the yard were widow makers with ice covered limbs all drooping downward...not good! There was a mile and a half of electric and phone poles on a country road filled with overhanging tree limbs, to get to the dirt road that gets to our house....we realize, Oh Boy, we are in trouble!

Because we know the electric company always has priorities, and populated areas, hospitals, businesses of necessity, gasoline stations will be fixed first, and we were always last, because we were in the woods, with few people.

Matt gathered some ice cycles in a big plastic laundry basket that we could melt if we ever got a fire going, so we could flush the toilet...

We had food. That was not a problem, but we had enough of others to worry about...

We realized we needed the ice cycles to stuff in the freezer and put in pans to keep the food cold, and took some frozen food out in to coolers and just put it outside on the back deck, to keep frozen....

Matt got some more ice to melt for flushing the toilet.

We were concerned cuz fireplace lets in smoke, cuz the opening is old fashioned, 5 ft tall, so we rigged a smoke guard at the top with heavy duty tin foil and duck tape covering 1/3 of the opening, and it worked fine....after that....thank goodness.

Our next thought was how in the heck were we going to make coffee in the morning! thank God we had some sterno cans, though with no sterno stove that we could find that we knew we had.... Sigh....so I had to rig a rack over a big heavy pot with sterno can inside, to heat water and pour over coffee grounds....

The outdoor grill had propane, but it was too windy to keep the flame going....

BASICALLY we went through those 7 days facing our issues with surviving, head on ....and were busy as heck for those 7 days working out the kinks....

And since then, we have used this test, to prepare for a one to two year survival without the grid....we learned from the lack of preparation experience, to not be so stupid again!

I think we out here a n the boon docks, have a better chance!

EDIT

MISSED telling you the generator would not start!

 

[1srelluc]

We had to survive 7 days of complete blackout, from a bad ice storm.

Initially, it was, oh darn, I wonder how long the power will be out? We began gathering our supplies like lanterns, oil lamps, flashlights....

Not long, we were Jones ing for the internet and Tv... Wishing we could be online, to get some information on what was going on, we checked Matt's cell phone for service, he had none. Went to use the landline, and all our phones came from a plugged in to electric phone system, and couldn't find any of our old direct plug in phones in the attic that we thought we had, that would have worked without electric....house is starting to get really cold...then we started figuring out what to do for heat....we had a cord of wood outside, of which the tarp blew off and was covered in an inch plus of ice, all the trees in the yard were widow makers with ice covered limbs all drooping downward...not good! There was a mile and a half of electric and phone poles on a country road filled with overhanging tree limbs, to get to the dirt road that gets to our house....we realize, Oh Boy, we are in trouble!

Because we know the electric company always has priorities, and populated areas, hospitals, businesses of necessity, gasoline stations will be fixed first, and we were always last, because we were in the woods, with few people.

Matt gathered some ice cycles in a big plastic laundry basket that we could melt if we ever got a fire going, so we could flush the toilet...

We had food. That was not a problem, but we had enough of others to worry about...

We realized we needed the ice cycles to stuff in the freezer and put in pans to keep the food cold, and took some frozen food out in to coolers and just put it outside on the back deck, to keep frozen....

Matt got some more ice to melt for flushing the toilet.

We were concerned cuz fireplace lets in smoke, cuz the opening is old fashioned, 5 ft tall, so we rigged a smoke guard at the top with heavy duty tin foil and duck tape covering 1/3 of the opening, and it worked fine....after that....thank goodness.

Our next thought was how in the heck were we going to make coffee in the morning! thank God we had some sterno cans, though with no stereo stove that we could find that we knew we had.... Sigh....so I had to rig a rack over a big heavy pot with stereo can inside, to heat water and pour over coffee grounds....

The outdoor grill had propane, but it was too windy to keep the flame going....

BASICALLY we went through those 7 days facing our issues with surviving, head on ....and were busy as heck for those 7 days working out the kinks....

And since then, we have used this test, to prepare for a one to two year survival without the grid....we learned from the lack of preparation experience, to not be so stupid again!

I think we out here a n the boon docks, have a better chance!

TL;DR....A country boy/girl will survive.

 

[Vastator]

We had to survive 7 days of complete blackout, from a bad ice storm.

Initially, it was, oh darn, I wonder how long the power will be out? We began gathering our supplies like lanterns, oil lamps, flashlights....

Not long, we were Jones ing for the internet and Tv... Wishing we could be online, to get some information on what was going on, we checked Matt's cell phone for service, he had none. Went to use the landline, and all our phones came from a plugged in to electric phone system, and couldn't find any of our old direct plug in phones in the attic that we thought we had, that would have worked without electric....house is starting to get really cold...then we started figuring out what to do for heat....we had a cord of wood outside, of which the tarp blew off and was covered in an inch plus of ice, all the trees in the yard were widow makers with ice covered limbs all drooping downward...not good! There was a mile and a half of electric and phone poles on a country road filled with overhanging tree limbs, to get to the dirt road that gets to our house....we realize, Oh Boy, we are in trouble!

Because we know the electric company always has priorities, and populated areas, hospitals, businesses of necessity, gasoline stations will be fixed first, and we were always last, because we were in the woods, with few people.

Matt gathered some ice cycles in a big plastic laundry basket that we could melt if we ever got a fire going, so we could flush the toilet...

We had food. That was not a problem, but we had enough of others to worry about...

We realized we needed the ice cycles to stuff in the freezer and put in pans to keep the food cold, and took some frozen food out in to coolers and just put it outside on the back deck, to keep frozen....

Matt got some more ice to melt for flushing the toilet.

We were concerned cuz fireplace lets in smoke, cuz the opening is old fashioned, 5 ft tall, so we rigged a smoke guard at the top with heavy duty tin foil and duck tape covering 1/3 of the opening, and it worked fine....after that....thank goodness.

Our next thought was how in the heck were we going to make coffee in the morning! thank God we had some sterno cans, though with no sterno stove that we could find that we knew we had.... Sigh....so I had to rig a rack over a big heavy pot with sterno can inside, to heat water and pour over coffee grounds....

The outdoor grill had propane, but it was too windy to keep the flame going....

BASICALLY we went through those 7 days facing our issues with surviving, head on ....and were busy as heck for those 7 days working out the kinks....

And since then, we have used this test, to prepare for a one to two year survival without the grid....we learned from the lack of preparation experience, to not be so stupid again!

I think we out here a n the boon docks, have a better chance!

Rural folks will fare much better than urban folks. Simply for the fact that they are already much farther removed from the system when everything is going "fine". A stronger sense of community, and lower population density mitigates much of the panic, and crime that will inundate metro areas. Then there's housing. Especially in winter. Most rural folks live in a building of their own, and know how to heat, or cool it. But apartment dwellers..? All it takes is one resident to start a fire in their apartment to render the whole building uninhabitable. Hundreds dead/homeless at the worst possible time.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

TL;DR....A country boy/girl will survive.

Ditto.

Nothing there for me to learn from.


.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

I think roving armed gangs will form quickly and start going door to door.
Might start out as two, three or four but larger gangs will form quickly.
I think these will be the biggest threat especially anywhere near cities.
If you have, they will take.

Unless you have an armed group of 10 or 15 (or more) to fight back, loners may be in trouble.
And the guy who said his pigs would eat you.....sure.
Having those farm animals puts a big bullseye on you and your location.
Those poor pigs will be bacon faster than you can say "Now hold on there". They don't have guns.
And you're not going to win an armed fight with just one or two against 20 who are armed also.
They can out flank you easily.
Thinking otherwise is why you won't last.

Now maybe if you have some really impressive fire power (think 50 cal full auto etc) you might stand a chance.
But still if it;s just you against many the odds are against you.

 

[ozro]

I think roving armed gangs will form quickly and start going door to door.
Might start out as two, three or four but larger gangs will form quickly.
I think these will be the biggest threat especially anywhere near cities.
If you have, they will take.

Unless you have an armed group of 10 or 15 (or more) to fight back, loners may be in trouble.
And the guy who said his pigs would eat you.....sure.
Having those farm animals puts a big bullseye on you and your location.
Those poor pigs will be bacon faster than you can say "Now hold on there". They don't have guns.
And you're not going to win an armed fight with just one or two against 20 who are armed also.
They can out flank you easily.
Thinking otherwise is why you won't last.

Yeah, well.....75 miles to nearest city, 280 acres fenced, at the end of32 miles from paved road. topography lends itself to defense, defensive positions in place. I won't discuss defense except to say that a gun is my last defense. Property patrolled by trained dogs, more than someone without a breeder/trainer license allowed to own.
Presently even law enforcement calls before they come out here.
You city folks have no idea how some of us country folks have prepared for several years.
As I said, let's give it a try.

 

[Vastator]

I think roving armed gangs will form quickly and start going door to door.
Might start out as two, three or four but larger gangs will form quickly.
I think these will be the biggest threat especially anywhere near cities.
If you have, they will take.

Unless you have an armed group of 10 or 15 (or more) to fight back, loners may be in trouble.
And the guy who said his pigs would eat you.....sure.
Having those farm animals puts a big bullseye on you and your location.
Those poor pigs will be bacon faster than you can say "Now hold on there". They don't have guns.
And you're not going to win an armed fight with just one or two against 20 who are armed also.
They can out flank you easily.
Thinking otherwise is why you won't last.

I find that scenario somewhat unlikely. Drawing upon real world analogs, we already have a fairly good idea of how people react to situations similar to these, and the timetables involved. Inner city problems will likely remain in the cities for quite a long time. The resources, though spread out amongst many, are concentrated in the metro areas. They could prey upon themselves, and fight over warehouses for months. Plus they are already familiar with the locations of said resources.
And just as you suggest that armed groups would form up; the same would apply across the board to include smaller towns, and rural areas. Including the local sherrifs department members.
Could incidents happen? Of course. Will some highly organized, skilled, and well informed gangs be making concerted efforts to confiscate butcher preserve, and distribute livestock from country areas? Highly unlikely. And by the time some may be desperate enough to try; these communities will have prepared for such things well in advance.

 

[gipper]

I find that scenario somewhat unlikely. Drawing upon real world analogs, we already have a fairly good idea of how people react to situations similar to these, and the timetables involved. Inner city problems will likely remain in the cities for quite a long time. The resources, though spread out amongst many, are concentrated in the metro areas. They could prey upon themselves, and fight over warehouses for months. Plus they are already familiar with the locations of said resources.
And just as you suggest that armed groups would form up; the same would apply across the board to include smaller towns, and rural areas. Including the local sherrifs department members.
Could incidents happen? Of course. Will some highly organized, skilled, and well informed gangs be making concerted efforts to confiscate butcher preserve, and distribute livestock from country areas? Highly unlikely. And by the time some may be desperate enough to try; these communities will have prepared for such things well in advance.

Once the urban dwellers have nothing left the strong ones will head for the countryside. There likely will be roving gangs of armed thugs, desperate to find food and water. A lone farmer with cattle or pigs will be easy pickins’.

It could be relatively easy to survive for a long time if you have access to a clean water well, propane for heating and cooking, some solar to run water pump and heaters.

The problem will be desperate people who find you.

 

[gipper]

We had to survive 7 days of complete blackout, from a bad ice storm.

Initially, it was, oh darn, I wonder how long the power will be out? We began gathering our supplies like lanterns, oil lamps, flashlights....

Not long, we were Jones ing for the internet and Tv... Wishing we could be online, to get some information on what was going on, we checked Matt's cell phone for service, he had none. Went to use the landline, and all our phones came from a plugged in to electric phone system, and couldn't find any of our old direct plug in phones in the attic that we thought we had, that would have worked without electric....house is starting to get really cold...then we started figuring out what to do for heat....we had a cord of wood outside, of which the tarp blew off and was covered in an inch plus of ice, all the trees in the yard were widow makers with ice covered limbs all drooping downward...not good! There was a mile and a half of electric and phone poles on a country road filled with overhanging tree limbs, to get to the dirt road that gets to our house....we realize, Oh Boy, we are in trouble!

Because we know the electric company always has priorities, and populated areas, hospitals, businesses of necessity, gasoline stations will be fixed first, and we were always last, because we were in the woods, with few people.

Matt gathered some ice cycles in a big plastic laundry basket that we could melt if we ever got a fire going, so we could flush the toilet...

We had food. That was not a problem, but we had enough of others to worry about...

We realized we needed the ice cycles to stuff in the freezer and put in pans to keep the food cold, and took some frozen food out in to coolers and just put it outside on the back deck, to keep frozen....

Matt got some more ice to melt for flushing the toilet.

We were concerned cuz fireplace lets in smoke, cuz the opening is old fashioned, 5 ft tall, so we rigged a smoke guard at the top with heavy duty tin foil and duck tape covering 1/3 of the opening, and it worked fine....after that....thank goodness.

Our next thought was how in the heck were we going to make coffee in the morning! thank God we had some sterno cans, though with no sterno stove that we could find that we knew we had.... Sigh....so I had to rig a rack over a big heavy pot with sterno can inside, to heat water and pour over coffee grounds....

The outdoor grill had propane, but it was too windy to keep the flame going....

BASICALLY we went through those 7 days facing our issues with surviving, head on ....and were busy as heck for those 7 days working out the kinks....

And since then, we have used this test, to prepare for a one to two year survival without the grid....we learned from the lack of preparation experience, to not be so stupid again!

I think we out here a n the boon docks, have a better chance!

EDIT

MISSED telling you the generator would not start!

I never took you for a prepper. Good for you.

 

[Care4all]

I never took you for a prepper. Good for you.

My sister went through Hurricane Andrew in Miami, and was without the grid for over a month....after that point, she became a full-fledged prepper, and moved to the country, away from big cities, and has ammo to take on an army!

I thought she had gone off her Rocker!

It wasn't until our own ice storm experience a few years back, that Matt and I became peppers ourselves!! That experience was it! And we have never looked back....always looking forward to what we would do or need, if shit hit the fan!

 

[JohnDB]

A BlackStart of our electrical grid would commence if the entire nation's grid were to fail.
All grids are interconnected from Canada to parts of Mexico.

A blackstart starts at hydroelectric dams and possibly wind farms...where manually opening a water gate or by use of a generator powered by petroleum products will start the generation....which then allows the coal and natural gas generation to begin.

Power plants use alternators and not true generators and instead of fixed magnets they use electromagnets powered by another generating facility to get the frequency of the AC in alignment.

And bit by bit using switching stations they will get the entire grid back up with the trouble spots causing the collapse isolated out of the grid.

Then the Local Electric companies can fix their grids again by switching off power to areas that are damaged. They transmit power to switching and distribution centers....
Most switching and distribution stations (switch yards) are fed by two separate generating facilities and are capable of transmitting power to other switch yards)

So the longest time possible is a day we wouldn't have power.

 

[Care4all]

Once the urban dwellers have nothing left the strong ones will head for the countryside. There likely will be roving gangs of armed thugs, desperate to find food and water. A lone farmer with cattle or pigs will be easy pickins’.

It could be relatively easy to survive for a long time if you have access to a clean water well, propane for heating and cooking, some solar to run water pump and heaters.

The problem will be desperate people who find you.

But up here, everyone seems to be a hunter...we have hundreds of thousands in our deer Herd and another 60,000 maybe in moose, and muskrat is hunted, rabbit too...lots of them, and all kinds of birds, like Grouse ...about a half a million is hunted a year.... And dear Lord, do we have really big ass Black bear to hunt. We do not hunt, but we garden....my neighbor across the way is a hunter, he'd share with us.... because I already supply them with fresh vegetables all summer, plus we have salmon, and halibut, and lobster and shell fish, our shrimp is about the size of a grape, which is useless....

New Hampshire and Vermont are in as good as shape as Maine, minus the seafood....with animal herds....

What we have to worry about, is infiltration of our nearby Mass-holes, coming up here!

 

[gipper]

But up here, everyone seems to be a hunter...we have hundreds of thousands in our deer Herd and another 60,000 maybe in moose, and muskrat is hunted and all kinds of birds, like Grouse ...about a half a million is hunted a year.... We do not hunt, but we garden....my neighbor across the way is a hunter, he'd share with us.... because I already supply them with fresh vegetables all summer, plus we have salmon, and halibut, and lobster and shell fish, our shrimp is about the size of a grape, which is useless....

New Hampshire and Vermont are in as good as shape as Maine, minus the seafood....with animal herds....

What we have to worry about, is infiltration of our nearby Mass-holes, coming up here!

That’s why the urban dwellers will come to the rural areas. They might not come to Maine if it’s winter though, so you might be safe.