How Lucky Are Humans, and the World, for that Matter?

[Newtonian]

I’m not ignoring the “scientific evidence” you’re posting. I’m challenging you to identify how any of it supports your claims to partisan gods.

The majority of your “scientific evidence” is boilerplate from any of the fundamentalist Christian ministries. Creationists like to use to "support" their claims. Aren't selective quoting and argumentum ad verecundiam fun?

The existence of various parameters in nature being in such a state to produce life is well known among the physics community, but surely you realize (although refuse to accept), that there is a world of difference between natural forces and "intelligent design", and that the latter does not logically follow from the former?

The intelligent design / creationist argument simply states that “if things were different, things would be different”. Well, yeah. If today was Tuesday, it wouldn’t be Monday.

Even if we acknowledge that parameters are godly “fine-tuned”, why should anyone accept that it is your gods are the fine tuners? Your gods are only three assertions of the gods so you might want to present evidence for your gods before insisting that your gods are the only fine tuning gods.

The universe could fine-tune itself. Self-organizing critical systems (Ecosystem as self-organizing critical systems) are capable of fine-tuning all by themselves, following only a simple set of physical laws -- thus making it likely that the parameters are "fine-tuned" the way we see them by purely natural mechanisms.

Yes, you are ignoring the scientific evidence and you also have not explained what you believe caused all this 'fine tuning.'

On your off topic tangent - we only worship one God: Jehovah. That name means "He causes to be." So, how do you explain how all of these examples of fine tuning came to be?

 

[alang1216]

Extinction is the only other option. I'm an optimist so I say it is inevitable.

You have been watching too many sci-fi movies.

It's only fiction until it is not. How many things we have today first appeared in sci-fi?

You mean like warp drive or teleporters

We'll have to see about those but are you willing to say either is impossible? I was thinking more about communication satellites (I know it was Arthur C. Clarke but don't recall which story) and cell phones (Star Trek's communicators).

 

[ding]

Extinction is the only other option. I'm an optimist so I say it is inevitable.

You have been watching too many sci-fi movies.

It's only fiction until it is not. How many things we have today first appeared in sci-fi?

You mean like warp drive or teleporters

We'll have to see about those but are you willing to say either is impossible? I was thinking more about communication satellites (I know it was Arthur C. Clarke but don't recall which story) and cell phones (Star Trek's communicators).

Yes, they are impossible.

Information can be “transported” (i.e. entangled). Light can travel at the speed of light. Matter cannot do either.

 

[ding]

Extinction is the only other option. I'm an optimist so I say it is inevitable.

You have been watching too many sci-fi movies.

It's only fiction until it is not. How many things we have today first appeared in sci-fi?

You mean like warp drive or teleporters

We'll have to see about those but are you willing to say either is impossible? I was thinking more about communication satellites (I know it was Arthur C. Clarke but don't recall which story) and cell phones (Star Trek's communicators).

The distances and costs are too great.

now if you want to seed a planet for life that may be a different story but the obstacles for even that are formidable and you would never know if it was successful.

 

[Newtonian]

That we're able to exist even now, at this instant that I type this.

Based on the belief of atheists, this earth, has been in existence for millions, and millions of years now, starting w/of course, the Big Bang.

That there's all types of gargantuan stars, suns, meteors, planets etc, all around the universe swirling around and that could ultimately, at one point smash in to us.

Remember, that's what they claimed happened to make the dinosaurs go extinct and caused the Ice Age. A giant meteor that all but destroyed all life on earth...in an instant.

So that was millions of years ago, aren't we due for another one right about now?

What's stopping us from being destroyed by a super meteor at any point? And how do you feel w/the knowledge that this can happen at any instant?

I'd like to hear from our resident atheists on this.

What are your thoughts?

I am an atheist, or as I like to call myself, a Realist. (Why should I define myself by something I DON'T believe in? A-theist = No god) And yes, there is lots of evidence that the Earth is millions of years old, and the Big Bang has been deduced from various observable facts. And yes, the universe seems to be a chaotic, dangerous place -- as we're finding out right now with Covid-19. And unfortunately, the only thing that's stopping us from being destroyed by a "super meteor" is luck (or God, if you want to go that route).

Part of the reason that I hate religion is that it gives people false hope. Even if their lives in this world are terrible, they're promised a better one in the "next world." There isn't any next world. This is it. This is all we get. And you know what? For all its sorrows, this world is pretty great. A beautiful sunset, an inspiring piece of music, a delicious meal, or the love of someone -- you really should appreciate them while you have them. Because that's all you get. But it's enough.

Faith isn’t about the destination. It’s about the journey. And understanding how things are connected and work for good increases one’s enjoyment of the journey.

If you want to put your "faith" in a nonexistent being, go right ahead. My only regret is that after we're all dead, I'll never get to say, "I told you so!" (Oh, wait -- I just did!)

The definition of faith is complete trust in something or someone. I don’t put complete trust in something or someone without good reason, Bruce.

That may be your definition of faith but the Bible's definition is different:

Hebrews 11:1
Faith is the assured expectation of what is hoped for,+ the evident demonstration* of realities that are not seen.

"Assured expectation" is Gr., hy·poʹsta·sis; Lat., sub·stanʹti·a.
"Evident demonstration" or, “convincing evidence.” Gr., eʹleg·khos; Lat., ar·gu·menʹtum.

In other words: substantial convincing evidence. Put more simply: "Prove all things" - 1 Thessalonians 5:21 KJV.

This is why I am posting scientific proof - not blind faith that many have.

 

[alang1216]

You mean like warp drive or teleporters

We'll have to see about those but are you willing to say either is impossible? I was thinking more about communication satellites (I know it was Arthur C. Clarke but don't recall which story) and cell phones (Star Trek's communicators).

Yes, they are impossible.

Information can be “transported” (i.e. entangled). Light can travel at the speed of light. Matter cannot do either.

You and I will likely never know but I believe it was Arthur C. Clarke who said if a scientist says something is impossible, he is very probably wrong but if a scientist says something is possible, he is very probably right.

 

[Newtonian]

OK, continuing with the actual scientific evidence - I was detailing examples of point #3 which is #1 in our referenced link, to wit:

""1. Earth’s location in the Milky Way galaxy and the solar system, as well as the planet’s orbit, tilt, rotational speed, and moon"

I left off on 3B(3) - which I did NOT get from any source but from totally independent research - namely that the orbit of earth is not totally circular and serves to modify climactic change from winter to summer - see my post on this and the other points.

Continuing:

3C - The tilt of earth on its axis of rotation. From our referenced article:

The Living Planet — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"Earth’s perfect tilt and spin: Earth’s tilt of about 23.4 degrees causes the annual cycle of seasons, moderates temperatures, and allows for a wide range of climate zones. “Our planet’s tilt axis seems to be ‘just right,’” says the book Rare Earth—Why Complex Life Is Uncommon in the Universe.3 "

Reference 3:

Bibliography — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

3. Rare Earth—Why Complex Life Is Uncommon in the Universe, by Peter D. Ward and Donald Brownlee, 2000, p. 224.

Earth's axis tilt causes the seasons referred to in Genesis 8:22 which involve in temperate climates seed sowing and harvest. The fact that earth is mostly covered with water (a separate point) causes a lag in the seasons as water changes temperature slower than land - so this combined with the orbit tilt causes moderate seasons - especially in maritime climates.

Bottom line: the wonderful variety of climates and seasons contributes to a plethora of animal and plant life - one of the ways earth is a loving gift to man showing love, not luck. (1 John 4:8)

 

[Wyatt earp]

That we're able to exist even now, at this instant that I type this.

Based on the belief of atheists, this earth, has been in existence for millions, and millions of years now, starting w/of course, the Big Bang.

That there's all types of gargantuan stars, suns, meteors, planets etc, all around the universe swirling around and that could ultimately, at one point smash in to us.

Remember, that's what they claimed happened to make the dinosaurs go extinct and caused the Ice Age. A giant meteor that all but destroyed all life on earth...in an instant.

So that was millions of years ago, aren't we due for another one right about now?

What's stopping us from being destroyed by a super meteor at any point? And how do you feel w/the knowledge that this can happen at any instant?

I'd like to hear from our resident atheists on this.

What are your thoughts?

This has to be the most retarded OP in the history of the internet, you do know a catholic priest came up with the big bang theory, correct?

 

[ding]

You mean like warp drive or teleporters

We'll have to see about those but are you willing to say either is impossible? I was thinking more about communication satellites (I know it was Arthur C. Clarke but don't recall which story) and cell phones (Star Trek's communicators).

Yes, they are impossible.

Information can be “transported” (i.e. entangled). Light can travel at the speed of light. Matter cannot do either.

You and I will likely never know but I believe it was Arthur C. Clarke who said if a scientist says something is impossible, he is very probably wrong but if a scientist says something is possible, he is very probably right.

I’ll take my chances.

 

[ding]

That we're able to exist even now, at this instant that I type this.

Based on the belief of atheists, this earth, has been in existence for millions, and millions of years now, starting w/of course, the Big Bang.

That there's all types of gargantuan stars, suns, meteors, planets etc, all around the universe swirling around and that could ultimately, at one point smash in to us.

Remember, that's what they claimed happened to make the dinosaurs go extinct and caused the Ice Age. A giant meteor that all but destroyed all life on earth...in an instant.

So that was millions of years ago, aren't we due for another one right about now?

What's stopping us from being destroyed by a super meteor at any point? And how do you feel w/the knowledge that this can happen at any instant?

I'd like to hear from our resident atheists on this.

What are your thoughts?

I am an atheist, or as I like to call myself, a Realist. (Why should I define myself by something I DON'T believe in? A-theist = No god) And yes, there is lots of evidence that the Earth is millions of years old, and the Big Bang has been deduced from various observable facts. And yes, the universe seems to be a chaotic, dangerous place -- as we're finding out right now with Covid-19. And unfortunately, the only thing that's stopping us from being destroyed by a "super meteor" is luck (or God, if you want to go that route).

Part of the reason that I hate religion is that it gives people false hope. Even if their lives in this world are terrible, they're promised a better one in the "next world." There isn't any next world. This is it. This is all we get. And you know what? For all its sorrows, this world is pretty great. A beautiful sunset, an inspiring piece of music, a delicious meal, or the love of someone -- you really should appreciate them while you have them. Because that's all you get. But it's enough.

Faith isn’t about the destination. It’s about the journey. And understanding how things are connected and work for good increases one’s enjoyment of the journey.

If you want to put your "faith" in a nonexistent being, go right ahead. My only regret is that after we're all dead, I'll never get to say, "I told you so!" (Oh, wait -- I just did!)

The definition of faith is complete trust in something or someone. I don’t put complete trust in something or someone without good reason, Bruce.

That may be your definition of faith but the Bible's definition is different:

Hebrews 11:1
Faith is the assured expectation of what is hoped for,+ the evident demonstration* of realities that are not seen.

"Assured expectation" is Gr., hy·poʹsta·sis; Lat., sub·stanʹti·a.
"Evident demonstration" or, “convincing evidence.” Gr., eʹleg·khos; Lat., ar·gu·menʹtum.

In other words: substantial convincing evidence. Put more simply: "Prove all things" - 1 Thessalonians 5:21 KJV.

This is why I am posting scientific proof - not blind faith that many have.

I don’t see a material difference in the definitions.

 

[Wyatt earp]

I’m not ignoring the “scientific evidence” you’re posting. I’m challenging you to identify how any of it supports your claims to partisan gods.

The majority of your “scientific evidence” is boilerplate from any of the fundamentalist Christian ministries. Creationists like to use to "support" their claims. Aren't selective quoting and argumentum ad verecundiam fun?

The existence of various parameters in nature being in such a state to produce life is well known among the physics community, but surely you realize (although refuse to accept), that there is a world of difference between natural forces and "intelligent design", and that the latter does not logically follow from the former?

The intelligent design / creationist argument simply states that “if things were different, things would be different”. Well, yeah. If today was Tuesday, it wouldn’t be Monday.

Even if we acknowledge that parameters are godly “fine-tuned”, why should anyone accept that it is your gods are the fine tuners? Your gods are only three assertions of the gods so you might want to present evidence for your gods before insisting that your gods are the only fine tuning gods.

The universe could fine-tune itself. Self-organizing critical systems (Ecosystem as self-organizing critical systems) are capable of fine-tuning all by themselves, following only a simple set of physical laws -- thus making it likely that the parameters are "fine-tuned" the way we see them by purely natural mechanisms.

Their is no Gods, just one.

The next fine tuning point #s are from our article here:

The Living Planet — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

Note the following point #'s 1-4 are points 3 - 6 in my list of fine tuning of the earth:

[Note: the SETI search for earthlike planets only considers a couple of the fine tuned properties for a planet to have a surface environment conducive to life - none of these planets would actually allow life as we know it to survive]

"1. Earth’s location in the Milky Way galaxy and the solar system, as well as the planet’s orbit, tilt, rotational speed, and moon

2. A magnetic field and atmosphere that serve as a dual shield

3. An abundance of water

4. Natural cycles that replenish and cleanse the biosphere"

So, #1 is #3 in my list:

3A - Earth's location in Milky Way galaxy:

The Living Planet — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"

Could the earth be located in a better position to host life?

When you write down your address, what do you include? You might put in your country, city, and street. By way of comparison, let’s call the Milky Way galaxy earth’s “country,” the solar system—that is, the sun and its planets—earth’s “city,” and earth’s orbit within the solar system earth’s “street.” Thanks to advances in astronomy and physics, scientists have gained deep insights into the merits of our special spot in the universe.

To begin with, our “city,” or solar system, is located in the ideal region of the Milky Way galaxy—not too close to the center and not too far from it. This “habitable zone,” as scientists call it, contains just the right concentrations of the chemical elements needed to support life. Farther out, those elements are too scarce; farther in, the neighborhood is too dangerous because of the greater abundance of potentially lethal radiation and other factors. “We live in prime real estate,” says Scientific American magazine.1"

Reference 1 -

Bibliography — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

1. Scientific American, Special Issue 2008 entitled “Majestic Universe,” p. 11.

It’s entirely predictable that the JW’s would use the falsely labeled “fine tuning” argument to prove their gods but the chaos and violence of the universe doesn’t support a “fine tuning” claim and nothing about the universe supports any notions of gods.

Chaos?

I'm not sure what you are referring to - perhaps you could clarify.

One example of fine-tuned violence is Supernovas. Without supernovas the only elements that would have come into existence would have been Lithium and Hydrogen to Helium (which is inert), You cannot have life as we know it with just those elements present in the universe.

Further, no stars would have even existed in our universe without the fine tuned expansion rate of our universe (involving gravity, dark energy, and the cause of the labelled "big bang.").

The fine tuned ratios of the 4 force of physics also were required. (electromagnetic, gravity, strong nuclear force, weak nuclear force).

The Bible simplifies this in Job 38:33 which refers to the laws governing our universe. Far from chaos, the universe obeys laws and also has fine tuned properties. I will continue my list later - offline for awhile.

You all; shelter in ;place! You can't catch viruses ln the internet!

Supernova are good examples of chaos as they obliterate nearby (in galactic terms), objects. Galaxies collide and black holes swallow regions of space, comets bombard planets and cosmic radiation can destroy biological life.

So I’m not seeing the “fine tuning” you claim your gods have performed.

Maybe if you first offered some evidence for your gods, you could then offer some evidence they “fine tuned” something.

Their is no Gods, just one


Curses for Disobedience
15 However, if you do not obey the Lord your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come on you and overtake you:

16 You will be cursed in the city and cursed in the country.
17 Your basket and your kneading trough will be cursed.
18 The fruit of your womb will be cursed, and the crops of your land, and the calves of your herds and the lambs of your flocks.
19 You will be cursed when you come in and cursed when you go out.
20 The Lord will send on you curses, confusion and rebuke in everything you put your hand to, until you are destroyed and come to sudden ruin because of the evil you have done in forsaking him.[a] 21 The Lord will plague you with diseases until he has destroyed you from the land you are entering to possess. 22 The Lord will strike you with wasting disease, with fever and inflammation, with scorching heat and drought, with blight and mildew, which will plague you until you perish. 23 The sky over your head will be bronze, the ground beneath you iron. 24 The Lord will turn the rain of your country into dust and powder; it will come down from the skies until you are destroyed.

25 The Lord will cause you to be defeated before your enemies. You will come at them from one direction but flee from them in seven, and you will become a thing of horror to all the kingdoms on earth. 26 Your carcasses will be food for all the birds and the wild animals, and there will be no one to frighten them away. 27 The Lord will afflict you with the boils of Egypt and with tumors, festering sores and the itch, from which you cannot be cured. 28 The Lord will afflict you with madness, blindness and confusion of mind. 29 At midday you will grope about like a blind person in the dark. You will be unsuccessful in everything you do; day after day you will be oppressed and robbed, with no one to rescue you.

30 You will be pledged to be married to a woman, but another will take her and rape her. You will build a house, but you will not live in it. You will plant a vineyard, but you will not even begin to enjoy its fruit. 31 Your ox will be slaughtered before your eyes, but you will eat none of it. Your donkey will be forcibly taken from you and will not be returned. Your sheep will be given to your enemies, and no one will rescue them. 32 Your sons and daughters will be given to another nation, and you will wear out your eyes watching for them day after day, powerless to lift a hand. 33 A people that you do not know will eat what your land and labor produce, and you will have nothing but cruel oppression all your days. 34 The sights you see will drive you mad. 35 The Lord will afflict your knees and legs with painful boils that cannot be cured, spreading from the soles of your feet to the top of your head.

36 The Lord will drive you and the king you set over you to a nation unknown to you or your ancestors. There you will worship other gods, gods of wood and stone. 37 You will become a thing of horror, a byword and an object of ridicule among all the peoples where the Lord will drive you.

38 You will sow much seed in the field but you will harvest little, because locusts will devour it. 39 You will plant vineyards and cultivate them but you will not drink the wine or gather the grapes, because worms will eat them. 40 You will have olive trees throughout your country but you will not use the oil, because the olives will drop off. 41 You will have sons and daughters but you will not keep them, because they will go into captivity. 42 Swarms of locusts will take over all your trees and the crops of your land.

43 The foreigners who reside among you will rise above you higher and higher, but you will sink lower and lower. 44 They will lend to you, but you will not lend to them. They will be the head, but you will be the tail.

45 All these curses will come on you. They will pursue you and overtake you until you are destroyed, because you did not obey the Lord your God and observe the commands and decrees he gave you. 46 They will be a sign and a wonder to you and your descendants forever. 47 Because you did not serve the Lord your God joyfully and gladly in the time of prosperity, 48 therefore in hunger and thirst, in nakedness and dire poverty, you will serve the enemies the Lord sends against you. He will put an iron yoke on your neck until he has destroyed you.

49 The Lord will bring a nation against you from far away, from the ends of the earth, like an eagle swooping down, a nation whose language you will not understand, 50 a fierce-looking nation without respect for the old or pity for the young. 51 They will devour the young of your livestock and the crops of your land until you are destroyed. They will leave you no grain, new wine or olive oil, nor any calves of your herds or lambs of your flocks until you are ruined. 52 They will lay siege to all the cities throughout your land until the high fortified walls in which you trust fall down. They will besiege all the cities throughout the land the Lord your God is giving you.

53 Because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege, you will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given you. 54 Even the most gentle and sensitive man among you will have no compassion on his own brother or the wife he loves or his surviving children, 55 and he will not give to one of them any of the flesh of his children that he is eating. It will be all he has left because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of all your cities. 56 The most gentle and sensitive woman among you—so sensitive and gentle that she would not venture to touch the ground with the sole of her foot—will begrudge the husband she loves and her own son or daughter 57 the afterbirth from her womb and the children she bears. For in her dire need she intends to eat them secretly because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of your cities.

58 If you do not carefully follow all the words of this law, which are written in this book, and do not revere this glorious and awesome name—the Lord your God— 59 the Lord will send fearful plagues on you and your descendants, harsh and prolonged disasters, and severe and lingering illnesses. 60 He will bring on you all the diseases of Egypt that you dreaded, and they will cling to you. 61 The Lord will also bring on you every kind of sickness and disaster not recorded in this Book of the Law, until you are destroyed. 62 You who were as numerous as the stars in the sky will be left but few in number, because you did not obey the Lord your God. 63 Just as it pleased the Lord to make you prosper and increase in number, so it will please him to ruin and destroy you. You will be uprooted from the land you are entering to possess.

 

[Wyatt earp]

That we're able to exist even now, at this instant that I type this.

Based on the belief of atheists, this earth, has been in existence for millions, and millions of years now, starting w/of course, the Big Bang.

That there's all types of gargantuan stars, suns, meteors, planets etc, all around the universe swirling around and that could ultimately, at one point smash in to us.

Remember, that's what they claimed happened to make the dinosaurs go extinct and caused the Ice Age. A giant meteor that all but destroyed all life on earth...in an instant.

So that was millions of years ago, aren't we due for another one right about now?

What's stopping us from being destroyed by a super meteor at any point? And how do you feel w/the knowledge that this can happen at any instant?

I'd like to hear from our resident atheists on this.

What are your thoughts?

I am an atheist, or as I like to call myself, a Realist. (Why should I define myself by something I DON'T believe in? A-theist = No god) And yes, there is lots of evidence that the Earth is millions of years old, and the Big Bang has been deduced from various observable facts. And yes, the universe seems to be a chaotic, dangerous place -- as we're finding out right now with Covid-19. And unfortunately, the only thing that's stopping us from being destroyed by a "super meteor" is luck (or God, if you want to go that route).

Part of the reason that I hate religion is that it gives people false hope. Even if their lives in this world are terrible, they're promised a better one in the "next world." There isn't any next world. This is it. This is all we get. And you know what? For all its sorrows, this world is pretty great. A beautiful sunset, an inspiring piece of music, a delicious meal, or the love of someone -- you really should appreciate them while you have them. Because that's all you get. But it's enough.

Faith isn’t about the destination. It’s about the journey. And understanding how things are connected and work for good increases one’s enjoyment of the journey.

If you want to put your "faith" in a nonexistent being, go right ahead. My only regret is that after we're all dead, I'll never get to say, "I told you so!" (Oh, wait -- I just did!)

Your dead?

 

[Newtonian]

Continuing:

3D - Earth's rotation speed. (1) will be if earth's rotation speed was slower. (2) will be if earth's rotation speed was faster - which would result in stronger winds, a stronger coriolis effect/force (one cause of hurricanes and tornados) and other harmful effects I will detail later if none of you beat me to it!

While I have only given minimal documentation on the previous points in my list (e.g. from Britannica which, thankfully, is NOT a peer reviewed journal) I will detail 3D(1) with much more documentation. I can, do the same with any other points on my list - I am just waiting for any of you to respond on any of the points in my list.

3D(1) If earth's rotation speed was slower. As you likely know, earth's rotation speed is once in 24 hours, the day to night temperature variance would be greater. I will detail this in future posts. For now a few details - first concerning the normal day night variance in continental climates (within continents rather than on coastlines)

3D(1)(a) - If the rotation speed was once every 48 hours (twice slower). In moderate continental climates the day to night temperature variance is about 20 degrees (lower in humid or cloudy conditions; greater in dry clear conditions). Currently on earth at the equanoxes (c. March 21, September 21) night and day are 12 hours long. This changes with seasons - more on that when I detail earth's orbital tilt summarized above (3C). Using this mean (average) variance, the temperature goes down just less than 2 degrees per hour (exactly this in certain clear dry nights).

Doubling the time (halving orbital speed) the longer nights would cause colder nights. Roughly (at 1.5 degrees down per hour) this would cause the morning temperature to drop around sunrise/twilight about 18 degrees from the mean (average) daily temperature in continental climates. Also the daily high temperatures would be about 18 degrees higher than the mean temperature in such locations.

So, for example, if the mean was 50 degrees the nighttime low would increase from the current normal 38 to 48 degrees (no frost) to c. 32 degrees which would at least be extreme frost and at most a hard freeze. This would greatly reduce the growing season for farmers and would lower the amount of food that could be grown on the planet.

On the other hand, a summer mean of 78 degrees (normal in NYC in mid-summer) would produce a high temperature during the daytime of 96 degrees on average. While this is not catastrophic, it is certainly not comfortable for us humans. But that is just slowing the orbital speed to once every 48 hours - further slowing becomes more dangerous to life on earth, as I will detail in future post - next post 72 hour rotation speed [3D(1)(b)]:

 

[Newtonian]

I’m not ignoring the “scientific evidence” you’re posting. I’m challenging you to identify how any of it supports your claims to partisan gods.

The majority of your “scientific evidence” is boilerplate from any of the fundamentalist Christian ministries. Creationists like to use to "support" their claims. Aren't selective quoting and argumentum ad verecundiam fun?

The existence of various parameters in nature being in such a state to produce life is well known among the physics community, but surely you realize (although refuse to accept), that there is a world of difference between natural forces and "intelligent design", and that the latter does not logically follow from the former?

The intelligent design / creationist argument simply states that “if things were different, things would be different”. Well, yeah. If today was Tuesday, it wouldn’t be Monday.

Even if we acknowledge that parameters are godly “fine-tuned”, why should anyone accept that it is your gods are the fine tuners? Your gods are only three assertions of the gods so you might want to present evidence for your gods before insisting that your gods are the only fine tuning gods.

The universe could fine-tune itself. Self-organizing critical systems (Ecosystem as self-organizing critical systems) are capable of fine-tuning all by themselves, following only a simple set of physical laws -- thus making it likely that the parameters are "fine-tuned" the way we see them by purely natural mechanisms.

Their is no Gods, just one.

The next fine tuning point #s are from our article here:

The Living Planet — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

Note the following point #'s 1-4 are points 3 - 6 in my list of fine tuning of the earth:

[Note: the SETI search for earthlike planets only considers a couple of the fine tuned properties for a planet to have a surface environment conducive to life - none of these planets would actually allow life as we know it to survive]

"1. Earth’s location in the Milky Way galaxy and the solar system, as well as the planet’s orbit, tilt, rotational speed, and moon

2. A magnetic field and atmosphere that serve as a dual shield

3. An abundance of water

4. Natural cycles that replenish and cleanse the biosphere"

So, #1 is #3 in my list:

3A - Earth's location in Milky Way galaxy:

The Living Planet — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"

Could the earth be located in a better position to host life?

When you write down your address, what do you include? You might put in your country, city, and street. By way of comparison, let’s call the Milky Way galaxy earth’s “country,” the solar system—that is, the sun and its planets—earth’s “city,” and earth’s orbit within the solar system earth’s “street.” Thanks to advances in astronomy and physics, scientists have gained deep insights into the merits of our special spot in the universe.

To begin with, our “city,” or solar system, is located in the ideal region of the Milky Way galaxy—not too close to the center and not too far from it. This “habitable zone,” as scientists call it, contains just the right concentrations of the chemical elements needed to support life. Farther out, those elements are too scarce; farther in, the neighborhood is too dangerous because of the greater abundance of potentially lethal radiation and other factors. “We live in prime real estate,” says Scientific American magazine.1"

Reference 1 -

Bibliography — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

1. Scientific American, Special Issue 2008 entitled “Majestic Universe,” p. 11.

It’s entirely predictable that the JW’s would use the falsely labeled “fine tuning” argument to prove their gods but the chaos and violence of the universe doesn’t support a “fine tuning” claim and nothing about the universe supports any notions of gods.

Chaos?

I'm not sure what you are referring to - perhaps you could clarify.

One example of fine-tuned violence is Supernovas. Without supernovas the only elements that would have come into existence would have been Lithium and Hydrogen to Helium (which is inert), You cannot have life as we know it with just those elements present in the universe.

Further, no stars would have even existed in our universe without the fine tuned expansion rate of our universe (involving gravity, dark energy, and the cause of the labelled "big bang.").

The fine tuned ratios of the 4 force of physics also were required. (electromagnetic, gravity, strong nuclear force, weak nuclear force).

The Bible simplifies this in Job 38:33 which refers to the laws governing our universe. Far from chaos, the universe obeys laws and also has fine tuned properties. I will continue my list later - offline for awhile.

You all; shelter in ;place! You can't catch viruses ln the internet!

Supernova are good examples of chaos as they obliterate nearby (in galactic terms), objects. Galaxies collide and black holes swallow regions of space, comets bombard planets and cosmic radiation can destroy biological life.

So I’m not seeing the “fine tuning” you claim your gods have performed.

Maybe if you first offered some evidence for your gods, you could then offer some evidence they “fine tuned” something.

Their is no Gods, just one


Curses for Disobedience
15 However, if you do not obey the Lord your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come on you and overtake you:

16 You will be cursed in the city and cursed in the country.
17 Your basket and your kneading trough will be cursed.
18 The fruit of your womb will be cursed, and the crops of your land, and the calves of your herds and the lambs of your flocks.
19 You will be cursed when you come in and cursed when you go out.
20 The Lord will send on you curses, confusion and rebuke in everything you put your hand to, until you are destroyed and come to sudden ruin because of the evil you have done in forsaking him.[a] 21 The Lord will plague you with diseases until he has destroyed you from the land you are entering to possess. 22 The Lord will strike you with wasting disease, with fever and inflammation, with scorching heat and drought, with blight and mildew, which will plague you until you perish. 23 The sky over your head will be bronze, the ground beneath you iron. 24 The Lord will turn the rain of your country into dust and powder; it will come down from the skies until you are destroyed.

25 The Lord will cause you to be defeated before your enemies. You will come at them from one direction but flee from them in seven, and you will become a thing of horror to all the kingdoms on earth. 26 Your carcasses will be food for all the birds and the wild animals, and there will be no one to frighten them away. 27 The Lord will afflict you with the boils of Egypt and with tumors, festering sores and the itch, from which you cannot be cured. 28 The Lord will afflict you with madness, blindness and confusion of mind. 29 At midday you will grope about like a blind person in the dark. You will be unsuccessful in everything you do; day after day you will be oppressed and robbed, with no one to rescue you.

30 You will be pledged to be married to a woman, but another will take her and rape her. You will build a house, but you will not live in it. You will plant a vineyard, but you will not even begin to enjoy its fruit. 31 Your ox will be slaughtered before your eyes, but you will eat none of it. Your donkey will be forcibly taken from you and will not be returned. Your sheep will be given to your enemies, and no one will rescue them. 32 Your sons and daughters will be given to another nation, and you will wear out your eyes watching for them day after day, powerless to lift a hand. 33 A people that you do not know will eat what your land and labor produce, and you will have nothing but cruel oppression all your days. 34 The sights you see will drive you mad. 35 The Lord will afflict your knees and legs with painful boils that cannot be cured, spreading from the soles of your feet to the top of your head.

36 The Lord will drive you and the king you set over you to a nation unknown to you or your ancestors. There you will worship other gods, gods of wood and stone. 37 You will become a thing of horror, a byword and an object of ridicule among all the peoples where the Lord will drive you.

38 You will sow much seed in the field but you will harvest little, because locusts will devour it. 39 You will plant vineyards and cultivate them but you will not drink the wine or gather the grapes, because worms will eat them. 40 You will have olive trees throughout your country but you will not use the oil, because the olives will drop off. 41 You will have sons and daughters but you will not keep them, because they will go into captivity. 42 Swarms of locusts will take over all your trees and the crops of your land.

43 The foreigners who reside among you will rise above you higher and higher, but you will sink lower and lower. 44 They will lend to you, but you will not lend to them. They will be the head, but you will be the tail.

45 All these curses will come on you. They will pursue you and overtake you until you are destroyed, because you did not obey the Lord your God and observe the commands and decrees he gave you. 46 They will be a sign and a wonder to you and your descendants forever. 47 Because you did not serve the Lord your God joyfully and gladly in the time of prosperity, 48 therefore in hunger and thirst, in nakedness and dire poverty, you will serve the enemies the Lord sends against you. He will put an iron yoke on your neck until he has destroyed you.

49 The Lord will bring a nation against you from far away, from the ends of the earth, like an eagle swooping down, a nation whose language you will not understand, 50 a fierce-looking nation without respect for the old or pity for the young. 51 They will devour the young of your livestock and the crops of your land until you are destroyed. They will leave you no grain, new wine or olive oil, nor any calves of your herds or lambs of your flocks until you are ruined. 52 They will lay siege to all the cities throughout your land until the high fortified walls in which you trust fall down. They will besiege all the cities throughout the land the Lord your God is giving you.

53 Because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege, you will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given you. 54 Even the most gentle and sensitive man among you will have no compassion on his own brother or the wife he loves or his surviving children, 55 and he will not give to one of them any of the flesh of his children that he is eating. It will be all he has left because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of all your cities. 56 The most gentle and sensitive woman among you—so sensitive and gentle that she would not venture to touch the ground with the sole of her foot—will begrudge the husband she loves and her own son or daughter 57 the afterbirth from her womb and the children she bears. For in her dire need she intends to eat them secretly because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of your cities.

58 If you do not carefully follow all the words of this law, which are written in this book, and do not revere this glorious and awesome name—the Lord your God— 59 the Lord will send fearful plagues on you and your descendants, harsh and prolonged disasters, and severe and lingering illnesses. 60 He will bring on you all the diseases of Egypt that you dreaded, and they will cling to you. 61 The Lord will also bring on you every kind of sickness and disaster not recorded in this Book of the Law, until you are destroyed. 62 You who were as numerous as the stars in the sky will be left but few in number, because you did not obey the Lord your God. 63 Just as it pleased the Lord to make you prosper and increase in number, so it will please him to ruin and destroy you. You will be uprooted from the land you are entering to possess.

True.

 

[Wyatt earp]

I’m not ignoring the “scientific evidence” you’re posting. I’m challenging you to identify how any of it supports your claims to partisan gods.

The majority of your “scientific evidence” is boilerplate from any of the fundamentalist Christian ministries. Creationists like to use to "support" their claims. Aren't selective quoting and argumentum ad verecundiam fun?

The existence of various parameters in nature being in such a state to produce life is well known among the physics community, but surely you realize (although refuse to accept), that there is a world of difference between natural forces and "intelligent design", and that the latter does not logically follow from the former?

The intelligent design / creationist argument simply states that “if things were different, things would be different”. Well, yeah. If today was Tuesday, it wouldn’t be Monday.

Even if we acknowledge that parameters are godly “fine-tuned”, why should anyone accept that it is your gods are the fine tuners? Your gods are only three assertions of the gods so you might want to present evidence for your gods before insisting that your gods are the only fine tuning gods.

The universe could fine-tune itself. Self-organizing critical systems (Ecosystem as self-organizing critical systems) are capable of fine-tuning all by themselves, following only a simple set of physical laws -- thus making it likely that the parameters are "fine-tuned" the way we see them by purely natural mechanisms.

Their is no Gods, just one.

The next fine tuning point #s are from our article here:

The Living Planet — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

Note the following point #'s 1-4 are points 3 - 6 in my list of fine tuning of the earth:

[Note: the SETI search for earthlike planets only considers a couple of the fine tuned properties for a planet to have a surface environment conducive to life - none of these planets would actually allow life as we know it to survive]

"1. Earth’s location in the Milky Way galaxy and the solar system, as well as the planet’s orbit, tilt, rotational speed, and moon

2. A magnetic field and atmosphere that serve as a dual shield

3. An abundance of water

4. Natural cycles that replenish and cleanse the biosphere"

So, #1 is #3 in my list:

3A - Earth's location in Milky Way galaxy:

The Living Planet — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"

Could the earth be located in a better position to host life?

When you write down your address, what do you include? You might put in your country, city, and street. By way of comparison, let’s call the Milky Way galaxy earth’s “country,” the solar system—that is, the sun and its planets—earth’s “city,” and earth’s orbit within the solar system earth’s “street.” Thanks to advances in astronomy and physics, scientists have gained deep insights into the merits of our special spot in the universe.

To begin with, our “city,” or solar system, is located in the ideal region of the Milky Way galaxy—not too close to the center and not too far from it. This “habitable zone,” as scientists call it, contains just the right concentrations of the chemical elements needed to support life. Farther out, those elements are too scarce; farther in, the neighborhood is too dangerous because of the greater abundance of potentially lethal radiation and other factors. “We live in prime real estate,” says Scientific American magazine.1"

Reference 1 -

Bibliography — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

1. Scientific American, Special Issue 2008 entitled “Majestic Universe,” p. 11.

It’s entirely predictable that the JW’s would use the falsely labeled “fine tuning” argument to prove their gods but the chaos and violence of the universe doesn’t support a “fine tuning” claim and nothing about the universe supports any notions of gods.

Chaos?

I'm not sure what you are referring to - perhaps you could clarify.

One example of fine-tuned violence is Supernovas. Without supernovas the only elements that would have come into existence would have been Lithium and Hydrogen to Helium (which is inert), You cannot have life as we know it with just those elements present in the universe.

Further, no stars would have even existed in our universe without the fine tuned expansion rate of our universe (involving gravity, dark energy, and the cause of the labelled "big bang.").

The fine tuned ratios of the 4 force of physics also were required. (electromagnetic, gravity, strong nuclear force, weak nuclear force).

The Bible simplifies this in Job 38:33 which refers to the laws governing our universe. Far from chaos, the universe obeys laws and also has fine tuned properties. I will continue my list later - offline for awhile.

You all; shelter in ;place! You can't catch viruses ln the internet!

Supernova are good examples of chaos as they obliterate nearby (in galactic terms), objects. Galaxies collide and black holes swallow regions of space, comets bombard planets and cosmic radiation can destroy biological life.

So I’m not seeing the “fine tuning” you claim your gods have performed.

Maybe if you first offered some evidence for your gods, you could then offer some evidence they “fine tuned” something.

Their is no Gods, just one


Curses for Disobedience
15 However, if you do not obey the Lord your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come on you and overtake you:

16 You will be cursed in the city and cursed in the country.
17 Your basket and your kneading trough will be cursed.
18 The fruit of your womb will be cursed, and the crops of your land, and the calves of your herds and the lambs of your flocks.
19 You will be cursed when you come in and cursed when you go out.
20 The Lord will send on you curses, confusion and rebuke in everything you put your hand to, until you are destroyed and come to sudden ruin because of the evil you have done in forsaking him.[a] 21 The Lord will plague you with diseases until he has destroyed you from the land you are entering to possess. 22 The Lord will strike you with wasting disease, with fever and inflammation, with scorching heat and drought, with blight and mildew, which will plague you until you perish. 23 The sky over your head will be bronze, the ground beneath you iron. 24 The Lord will turn the rain of your country into dust and powder; it will come down from the skies until you are destroyed.

25 The Lord will cause you to be defeated before your enemies. You will come at them from one direction but flee from them in seven, and you will become a thing of horror to all the kingdoms on earth. 26 Your carcasses will be food for all the birds and the wild animals, and there will be no one to frighten them away. 27 The Lord will afflict you with the boils of Egypt and with tumors, festering sores and the itch, from which you cannot be cured. 28 The Lord will afflict you with madness, blindness and confusion of mind. 29 At midday you will grope about like a blind person in the dark. You will be unsuccessful in everything you do; day after day you will be oppressed and robbed, with no one to rescue you.

30 You will be pledged to be married to a woman, but another will take her and rape her. You will build a house, but you will not live in it. You will plant a vineyard, but you will not even begin to enjoy its fruit. 31 Your ox will be slaughtered before your eyes, but you will eat none of it. Your donkey will be forcibly taken from you and will not be returned. Your sheep will be given to your enemies, and no one will rescue them. 32 Your sons and daughters will be given to another nation, and you will wear out your eyes watching for them day after day, powerless to lift a hand. 33 A people that you do not know will eat what your land and labor produce, and you will have nothing but cruel oppression all your days. 34 The sights you see will drive you mad. 35 The Lord will afflict your knees and legs with painful boils that cannot be cured, spreading from the soles of your feet to the top of your head.

36 The Lord will drive you and the king you set over you to a nation unknown to you or your ancestors. There you will worship other gods, gods of wood and stone. 37 You will become a thing of horror, a byword and an object of ridicule among all the peoples where the Lord will drive you.

38 You will sow much seed in the field but you will harvest little, because locusts will devour it. 39 You will plant vineyards and cultivate them but you will not drink the wine or gather the grapes, because worms will eat them. 40 You will have olive trees throughout your country but you will not use the oil, because the olives will drop off. 41 You will have sons and daughters but you will not keep them, because they will go into captivity. 42 Swarms of locusts will take over all your trees and the crops of your land.

43 The foreigners who reside among you will rise above you higher and higher, but you will sink lower and lower. 44 They will lend to you, but you will not lend to them. They will be the head, but you will be the tail.

45 All these curses will come on you. They will pursue you and overtake you until you are destroyed, because you did not obey the Lord your God and observe the commands and decrees he gave you. 46 They will be a sign and a wonder to you and your descendants forever. 47 Because you did not serve the Lord your God joyfully and gladly in the time of prosperity, 48 therefore in hunger and thirst, in nakedness and dire poverty, you will serve the enemies the Lord sends against you. He will put an iron yoke on your neck until he has destroyed you.

49 The Lord will bring a nation against you from far away, from the ends of the earth, like an eagle swooping down, a nation whose language you will not understand, 50 a fierce-looking nation without respect for the old or pity for the young. 51 They will devour the young of your livestock and the crops of your land until you are destroyed. They will leave you no grain, new wine or olive oil, nor any calves of your herds or lambs of your flocks until you are ruined. 52 They will lay siege to all the cities throughout your land until the high fortified walls in which you trust fall down. They will besiege all the cities throughout the land the Lord your God is giving you.

53 Because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege, you will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given you. 54 Even the most gentle and sensitive man among you will have no compassion on his own brother or the wife he loves or his surviving children, 55 and he will not give to one of them any of the flesh of his children that he is eating. It will be all he has left because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of all your cities. 56 The most gentle and sensitive woman among you—so sensitive and gentle that she would not venture to touch the ground with the sole of her foot—will begrudge the husband she loves and her own son or daughter 57 the afterbirth from her womb and the children she bears. For in her dire need she intends to eat them secretly because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of your cities.

58 If you do not carefully follow all the words of this law, which are written in this book, and do not revere this glorious and awesome name—the Lord your God— 59 the Lord will send fearful plagues on you and your descendants, harsh and prolonged disasters, and severe and lingering illnesses. 60 He will bring on you all the diseases of Egypt that you dreaded, and they will cling to you. 61 The Lord will also bring on you every kind of sickness and disaster not recorded in this Book of the Law, until you are destroyed. 62 You who were as numerous as the stars in the sky will be left but few in number, because you did not obey the Lord your God. 63 Just as it pleased the Lord to make you prosper and increase in number, so it will please him to ruin and destroy you. You will be uprooted from the land you are entering to possess.

True.

Yup, we all know what was written like 4,000 years ago


58 If you do not carefully follow all the words of this law, which are written in this book, and do not revere this glorious and awesome name—the Lord your God— 59 the Lord will send fearful plagues on you and your descendants, harsh and prolonged disasters, and severe and lingering illnesses.

 

[Newtonian]

Still on earth's rotation speed:

3D(1)(b) - If earth's rotation speed was once every 72 hours day to night temperature variance would be c. 40 degrees. In a location where the mean is 50 degrees, the low at night would be. c. 30 degrees - a light to hard freeze. Daily temperatures vary and it is normal to go from 10 degrees above normal to 10 degrees below normal so on colder days the low would be 20 degrees - a hard freeze which would allow only freeze tolerant crops to grow - earth's food supply would be greatly reduced.

During summer when the mean is normally 80 degrees (e.g. here in SE Louisiana) the normal high would be 100 degrees and on above normal days: 110 degrees. This is still not catastrophic, but getting there!

3D(1)(c) With a rotation speed of once every 100 hours, the normal day to night temperature variance would be about 50 degrees. This means that in locations where the mean is 50 degrees, the low would be (on average) 25 - 15 on colder nights. And the high would be 75 degrees. The growing season would be very short in temperate climates.

In a moderate tropical climate with a mean of 80 degrees, the low would be 55 degrees (45 degrees on colder nights) and the high would be 105 degrees (115 degrees on hotter days).

3D(1)(d) - With a rotation speed of one week (168 hours) the normal day to night variance would be about 80 degrees in continental climates. In areas with a moderate normal 60 degree mean, which would today be a low of 50 and a high of 70, would now become a low of 10 and a high of 90. Not so good!

In tropical continental climates with a mean of 80, the low would be 40 (freezes on colder nights and the high would be 120 - 130 degrees on hotter days.

Catastrophic except in maritime climates.

3D(1)(e) Skipping to 2,000 hour rotation speed (about 80 days), night would be 1,000 hours long. In continental climates with a mean of 50 degrees, the low would be about -950 degrees and the high would be about 1,050 degrees. But that would not actually happen because of earth's oceans which would greatly reduce the high to about 400 degrees - now the difference between continental and maritime climates would be a minor factor.

in case you all think this is not possible - try studying the rotation speeds of other planets in our solar system - I will detail this later.

It is this example that would be absolutely catastrophic to life on earth's surface - though deep in ocean depths life could still survive.

In 80 day rotation speed you could actually hear the sunrise and sunset! I will detail this in my next post:

 

[Newtonian]

I’m not ignoring the “scientific evidence” you’re posting. I’m challenging you to identify how any of it supports your claims to partisan gods.

The majority of your “scientific evidence” is boilerplate from any of the fundamentalist Christian ministries. Creationists like to use to "support" their claims. Aren't selective quoting and argumentum ad verecundiam fun?

The existence of various parameters in nature being in such a state to produce life is well known among the physics community, but surely you realize (although refuse to accept), that there is a world of difference between natural forces and "intelligent design", and that the latter does not logically follow from the former?

The intelligent design / creationist argument simply states that “if things were different, things would be different”. Well, yeah. If today was Tuesday, it wouldn’t be Monday.

Even if we acknowledge that parameters are godly “fine-tuned”, why should anyone accept that it is your gods are the fine tuners? Your gods are only three assertions of the gods so you might want to present evidence for your gods before insisting that your gods are the only fine tuning gods.

The universe could fine-tune itself. Self-organizing critical systems (Ecosystem as self-organizing critical systems) are capable of fine-tuning all by themselves, following only a simple set of physical laws -- thus making it likely that the parameters are "fine-tuned" the way we see them by purely natural mechanisms.

Their is no Gods, just one.

The next fine tuning point #s are from our article here:

The Living Planet — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

Note the following point #'s 1-4 are points 3 - 6 in my list of fine tuning of the earth:

[Note: the SETI search for earthlike planets only considers a couple of the fine tuned properties for a planet to have a surface environment conducive to life - none of these planets would actually allow life as we know it to survive]

"1. Earth’s location in the Milky Way galaxy and the solar system, as well as the planet’s orbit, tilt, rotational speed, and moon

2. A magnetic field and atmosphere that serve as a dual shield

3. An abundance of water

4. Natural cycles that replenish and cleanse the biosphere"

So, #1 is #3 in my list:

3A - Earth's location in Milky Way galaxy:

The Living Planet — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"

Could the earth be located in a better position to host life?

When you write down your address, what do you include? You might put in your country, city, and street. By way of comparison, let’s call the Milky Way galaxy earth’s “country,” the solar system—that is, the sun and its planets—earth’s “city,” and earth’s orbit within the solar system earth’s “street.” Thanks to advances in astronomy and physics, scientists have gained deep insights into the merits of our special spot in the universe.

To begin with, our “city,” or solar system, is located in the ideal region of the Milky Way galaxy—not too close to the center and not too far from it. This “habitable zone,” as scientists call it, contains just the right concentrations of the chemical elements needed to support life. Farther out, those elements are too scarce; farther in, the neighborhood is too dangerous because of the greater abundance of potentially lethal radiation and other factors. “We live in prime real estate,” says Scientific American magazine.1"

Reference 1 -

Bibliography — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

1. Scientific American, Special Issue 2008 entitled “Majestic Universe,” p. 11.

It’s entirely predictable that the JW’s would use the falsely labeled “fine tuning” argument to prove their gods but the chaos and violence of the universe doesn’t support a “fine tuning” claim and nothing about the universe supports any notions of gods.

Chaos?

I'm not sure what you are referring to - perhaps you could clarify.

One example of fine-tuned violence is Supernovas. Without supernovas the only elements that would have come into existence would have been Lithium and Hydrogen to Helium (which is inert), You cannot have life as we know it with just those elements present in the universe.

Further, no stars would have even existed in our universe without the fine tuned expansion rate of our universe (involving gravity, dark energy, and the cause of the labelled "big bang.").

The fine tuned ratios of the 4 force of physics also were required. (electromagnetic, gravity, strong nuclear force, weak nuclear force).

The Bible simplifies this in Job 38:33 which refers to the laws governing our universe. Far from chaos, the universe obeys laws and also has fine tuned properties. I will continue my list later - offline for awhile.

You all; shelter in ;place! You can't catch viruses ln the internet!

Supernova are good examples of chaos as they obliterate nearby (in galactic terms), objects. Galaxies collide and black holes swallow regions of space, comets bombard planets and cosmic radiation can destroy biological life.

So I’m not seeing the “fine tuning” you claim your gods have performed.

Maybe if you first offered some evidence for your gods, you could then offer some evidence they “fine tuned” something.

Their is no Gods, just one


Curses for Disobedience
15 However, if you do not obey the Lord your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come on you and overtake you:

16 You will be cursed in the city and cursed in the country.
17 Your basket and your kneading trough will be cursed.
18 The fruit of your womb will be cursed, and the crops of your land, and the calves of your herds and the lambs of your flocks.
19 You will be cursed when you come in and cursed when you go out.
20 The Lord will send on you curses, confusion and rebuke in everything you put your hand to, until you are destroyed and come to sudden ruin because of the evil you have done in forsaking him.[a] 21 The Lord will plague you with diseases until he has destroyed you from the land you are entering to possess. 22 The Lord will strike you with wasting disease, with fever and inflammation, with scorching heat and drought, with blight and mildew, which will plague you until you perish. 23 The sky over your head will be bronze, the ground beneath you iron. 24 The Lord will turn the rain of your country into dust and powder; it will come down from the skies until you are destroyed.

25 The Lord will cause you to be defeated before your enemies. You will come at them from one direction but flee from them in seven, and you will become a thing of horror to all the kingdoms on earth. 26 Your carcasses will be food for all the birds and the wild animals, and there will be no one to frighten them away. 27 The Lord will afflict you with the boils of Egypt and with tumors, festering sores and the itch, from which you cannot be cured. 28 The Lord will afflict you with madness, blindness and confusion of mind. 29 At midday you will grope about like a blind person in the dark. You will be unsuccessful in everything you do; day after day you will be oppressed and robbed, with no one to rescue you.

30 You will be pledged to be married to a woman, but another will take her and rape her. You will build a house, but you will not live in it. You will plant a vineyard, but you will not even begin to enjoy its fruit. 31 Your ox will be slaughtered before your eyes, but you will eat none of it. Your donkey will be forcibly taken from you and will not be returned. Your sheep will be given to your enemies, and no one will rescue them. 32 Your sons and daughters will be given to another nation, and you will wear out your eyes watching for them day after day, powerless to lift a hand. 33 A people that you do not know will eat what your land and labor produce, and you will have nothing but cruel oppression all your days. 34 The sights you see will drive you mad. 35 The Lord will afflict your knees and legs with painful boils that cannot be cured, spreading from the soles of your feet to the top of your head.

36 The Lord will drive you and the king you set over you to a nation unknown to you or your ancestors. There you will worship other gods, gods of wood and stone. 37 You will become a thing of horror, a byword and an object of ridicule among all the peoples where the Lord will drive you.

38 You will sow much seed in the field but you will harvest little, because locusts will devour it. 39 You will plant vineyards and cultivate them but you will not drink the wine or gather the grapes, because worms will eat them. 40 You will have olive trees throughout your country but you will not use the oil, because the olives will drop off. 41 You will have sons and daughters but you will not keep them, because they will go into captivity. 42 Swarms of locusts will take over all your trees and the crops of your land.

43 The foreigners who reside among you will rise above you higher and higher, but you will sink lower and lower. 44 They will lend to you, but you will not lend to them. They will be the head, but you will be the tail.

45 All these curses will come on you. They will pursue you and overtake you until you are destroyed, because you did not obey the Lord your God and observe the commands and decrees he gave you. 46 They will be a sign and a wonder to you and your descendants forever. 47 Because you did not serve the Lord your God joyfully and gladly in the time of prosperity, 48 therefore in hunger and thirst, in nakedness and dire poverty, you will serve the enemies the Lord sends against you. He will put an iron yoke on your neck until he has destroyed you.

49 The Lord will bring a nation against you from far away, from the ends of the earth, like an eagle swooping down, a nation whose language you will not understand, 50 a fierce-looking nation without respect for the old or pity for the young. 51 They will devour the young of your livestock and the crops of your land until you are destroyed. They will leave you no grain, new wine or olive oil, nor any calves of your herds or lambs of your flocks until you are ruined. 52 They will lay siege to all the cities throughout your land until the high fortified walls in which you trust fall down. They will besiege all the cities throughout the land the Lord your God is giving you.

53 Because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege, you will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given you. 54 Even the most gentle and sensitive man among you will have no compassion on his own brother or the wife he loves or his surviving children, 55 and he will not give to one of them any of the flesh of his children that he is eating. It will be all he has left because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of all your cities. 56 The most gentle and sensitive woman among you—so sensitive and gentle that she would not venture to touch the ground with the sole of her foot—will begrudge the husband she loves and her own son or daughter 57 the afterbirth from her womb and the children she bears. For in her dire need she intends to eat them secretly because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of your cities.

58 If you do not carefully follow all the words of this law, which are written in this book, and do not revere this glorious and awesome name—the Lord your God— 59 the Lord will send fearful plagues on you and your descendants, harsh and prolonged disasters, and severe and lingering illnesses. 60 He will bring on you all the diseases of Egypt that you dreaded, and they will cling to you. 61 The Lord will also bring on you every kind of sickness and disaster not recorded in this Book of the Law, until you are destroyed. 62 You who were as numerous as the stars in the sky will be left but few in number, because you did not obey the Lord your God. 63 Just as it pleased the Lord to make you prosper and increase in number, so it will please him to ruin and destroy you. You will be uprooted from the land you are entering to possess.

True.

Yup, we all know what was written like 4,000 years ago


58 If you do not carefully follow all the words of this law, which are written in this book, and do not revere this glorious and awesome name—the Lord your God— 59 the Lord will send fearful plagues on you and your descendants, harsh and prolonged disasters, and severe and lingering illnesses.

Good point. Plague is also a sign of the last days as in Luke chapter 21 and Revelation 6:8.

 

[Wyatt earp]

I’m not ignoring the “scientific evidence” you’re posting. I’m challenging you to identify how any of it supports your claims to partisan gods.

The majority of your “scientific evidence” is boilerplate from any of the fundamentalist Christian ministries. Creationists like to use to "support" their claims. Aren't selective quoting and argumentum ad verecundiam fun?

The existence of various parameters in nature being in such a state to produce life is well known among the physics community, but surely you realize (although refuse to accept), that there is a world of difference between natural forces and "intelligent design", and that the latter does not logically follow from the former?

The intelligent design / creationist argument simply states that “if things were different, things would be different”. Well, yeah. If today was Tuesday, it wouldn’t be Monday.

Even if we acknowledge that parameters are godly “fine-tuned”, why should anyone accept that it is your gods are the fine tuners? Your gods are only three assertions of the gods so you might want to present evidence for your gods before insisting that your gods are the only fine tuning gods.

The universe could fine-tune itself. Self-organizing critical systems (Ecosystem as self-organizing critical systems) are capable of fine-tuning all by themselves, following only a simple set of physical laws -- thus making it likely that the parameters are "fine-tuned" the way we see them by purely natural mechanisms.

Their is no Gods, just one.

The next fine tuning point #s are from our article here:

The Living Planet — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

Note the following point #'s 1-4 are points 3 - 6 in my list of fine tuning of the earth:

[Note: the SETI search for earthlike planets only considers a couple of the fine tuned properties for a planet to have a surface environment conducive to life - none of these planets would actually allow life as we know it to survive]

"1. Earth’s location in the Milky Way galaxy and the solar system, as well as the planet’s orbit, tilt, rotational speed, and moon

2. A magnetic field and atmosphere that serve as a dual shield

3. An abundance of water

4. Natural cycles that replenish and cleanse the biosphere"

So, #1 is #3 in my list:

3A - Earth's location in Milky Way galaxy:

The Living Planet — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"

Could the earth be located in a better position to host life?

When you write down your address, what do you include? You might put in your country, city, and street. By way of comparison, let’s call the Milky Way galaxy earth’s “country,” the solar system—that is, the sun and its planets—earth’s “city,” and earth’s orbit within the solar system earth’s “street.” Thanks to advances in astronomy and physics, scientists have gained deep insights into the merits of our special spot in the universe.

To begin with, our “city,” or solar system, is located in the ideal region of the Milky Way galaxy—not too close to the center and not too far from it. This “habitable zone,” as scientists call it, contains just the right concentrations of the chemical elements needed to support life. Farther out, those elements are too scarce; farther in, the neighborhood is too dangerous because of the greater abundance of potentially lethal radiation and other factors. “We live in prime real estate,” says Scientific American magazine.1"

Reference 1 -

Bibliography — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

1. Scientific American, Special Issue 2008 entitled “Majestic Universe,” p. 11.

It’s entirely predictable that the JW’s would use the falsely labeled “fine tuning” argument to prove their gods but the chaos and violence of the universe doesn’t support a “fine tuning” claim and nothing about the universe supports any notions of gods.

Chaos?

I'm not sure what you are referring to - perhaps you could clarify.

One example of fine-tuned violence is Supernovas. Without supernovas the only elements that would have come into existence would have been Lithium and Hydrogen to Helium (which is inert), You cannot have life as we know it with just those elements present in the universe.

Further, no stars would have even existed in our universe without the fine tuned expansion rate of our universe (involving gravity, dark energy, and the cause of the labelled "big bang.").

The fine tuned ratios of the 4 force of physics also were required. (electromagnetic, gravity, strong nuclear force, weak nuclear force).

The Bible simplifies this in Job 38:33 which refers to the laws governing our universe. Far from chaos, the universe obeys laws and also has fine tuned properties. I will continue my list later - offline for awhile.

You all; shelter in ;place! You can't catch viruses ln the internet!

Supernova are good examples of chaos as they obliterate nearby (in galactic terms), objects. Galaxies collide and black holes swallow regions of space, comets bombard planets and cosmic radiation can destroy biological life.

So I’m not seeing the “fine tuning” you claim your gods have performed.

Maybe if you first offered some evidence for your gods, you could then offer some evidence they “fine tuned” something.

Their is no Gods, just one


Curses for Disobedience
15 However, if you do not obey the Lord your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come on you and overtake you:

16 You will be cursed in the city and cursed in the country.
17 Your basket and your kneading trough will be cursed.
18 The fruit of your womb will be cursed, and the crops of your land, and the calves of your herds and the lambs of your flocks.
19 You will be cursed when you come in and cursed when you go out.
20 The Lord will send on you curses, confusion and rebuke in everything you put your hand to, until you are destroyed and come to sudden ruin because of the evil you have done in forsaking him.[a] 21 The Lord will plague you with diseases until he has destroyed you from the land you are entering to possess. 22 The Lord will strike you with wasting disease, with fever and inflammation, with scorching heat and drought, with blight and mildew, which will plague you until you perish. 23 The sky over your head will be bronze, the ground beneath you iron. 24 The Lord will turn the rain of your country into dust and powder; it will come down from the skies until you are destroyed.

25 The Lord will cause you to be defeated before your enemies. You will come at them from one direction but flee from them in seven, and you will become a thing of horror to all the kingdoms on earth. 26 Your carcasses will be food for all the birds and the wild animals, and there will be no one to frighten them away. 27 The Lord will afflict you with the boils of Egypt and with tumors, festering sores and the itch, from which you cannot be cured. 28 The Lord will afflict you with madness, blindness and confusion of mind. 29 At midday you will grope about like a blind person in the dark. You will be unsuccessful in everything you do; day after day you will be oppressed and robbed, with no one to rescue you.

30 You will be pledged to be married to a woman, but another will take her and rape her. You will build a house, but you will not live in it. You will plant a vineyard, but you will not even begin to enjoy its fruit. 31 Your ox will be slaughtered before your eyes, but you will eat none of it. Your donkey will be forcibly taken from you and will not be returned. Your sheep will be given to your enemies, and no one will rescue them. 32 Your sons and daughters will be given to another nation, and you will wear out your eyes watching for them day after day, powerless to lift a hand. 33 A people that you do not know will eat what your land and labor produce, and you will have nothing but cruel oppression all your days. 34 The sights you see will drive you mad. 35 The Lord will afflict your knees and legs with painful boils that cannot be cured, spreading from the soles of your feet to the top of your head.

36 The Lord will drive you and the king you set over you to a nation unknown to you or your ancestors. There you will worship other gods, gods of wood and stone. 37 You will become a thing of horror, a byword and an object of ridicule among all the peoples where the Lord will drive you.

38 You will sow much seed in the field but you will harvest little, because locusts will devour it. 39 You will plant vineyards and cultivate them but you will not drink the wine or gather the grapes, because worms will eat them. 40 You will have olive trees throughout your country but you will not use the oil, because the olives will drop off. 41 You will have sons and daughters but you will not keep them, because they will go into captivity. 42 Swarms of locusts will take over all your trees and the crops of your land.

43 The foreigners who reside among you will rise above you higher and higher, but you will sink lower and lower. 44 They will lend to you, but you will not lend to them. They will be the head, but you will be the tail.

45 All these curses will come on you. They will pursue you and overtake you until you are destroyed, because you did not obey the Lord your God and observe the commands and decrees he gave you. 46 They will be a sign and a wonder to you and your descendants forever. 47 Because you did not serve the Lord your God joyfully and gladly in the time of prosperity, 48 therefore in hunger and thirst, in nakedness and dire poverty, you will serve the enemies the Lord sends against you. He will put an iron yoke on your neck until he has destroyed you.

49 The Lord will bring a nation against you from far away, from the ends of the earth, like an eagle swooping down, a nation whose language you will not understand, 50 a fierce-looking nation without respect for the old or pity for the young. 51 They will devour the young of your livestock and the crops of your land until you are destroyed. They will leave you no grain, new wine or olive oil, nor any calves of your herds or lambs of your flocks until you are ruined. 52 They will lay siege to all the cities throughout your land until the high fortified walls in which you trust fall down. They will besiege all the cities throughout the land the Lord your God is giving you.

53 Because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege, you will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given you. 54 Even the most gentle and sensitive man among you will have no compassion on his own brother or the wife he loves or his surviving children, 55 and he will not give to one of them any of the flesh of his children that he is eating. It will be all he has left because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of all your cities. 56 The most gentle and sensitive woman among you—so sensitive and gentle that she would not venture to touch the ground with the sole of her foot—will begrudge the husband she loves and her own son or daughter 57 the afterbirth from her womb and the children she bears. For in her dire need she intends to eat them secretly because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of your cities.

58 If you do not carefully follow all the words of this law, which are written in this book, and do not revere this glorious and awesome name—the Lord your God— 59 the Lord will send fearful plagues on you and your descendants, harsh and prolonged disasters, and severe and lingering illnesses. 60 He will bring on you all the diseases of Egypt that you dreaded, and they will cling to you. 61 The Lord will also bring on you every kind of sickness and disaster not recorded in this Book of the Law, until you are destroyed. 62 You who were as numerous as the stars in the sky will be left but few in number, because you did not obey the Lord your God. 63 Just as it pleased the Lord to make you prosper and increase in number, so it will please him to ruin and destroy you. You will be uprooted from the land you are entering to possess.

True.

Yup, we all know what was written like 4,000 years ago


58 If you do not carefully follow all the words of this law, which are written in this book, and do not revere this glorious and awesome name—the Lord your God— 59 the Lord will send fearful plagues on you and your descendants, harsh and prolonged disasters, and severe and lingering illnesses.

Good point. Plague is also a sign of the last days as in Luke chapter 21 and Revelation 6:8.

Revelation 6:8, NIV: "I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth."

Ya know the two books I never studied was Proverbs and Revelation.

Martin Luther didn't want revelations cannoized

 

[alang1216]

The distances and costs are too great.

now if you want to seed a planet for life that may be a different story but the obstacles for even that are formidable and you would never know if it was successful.

I'm hearing a lack of imagination. It used to take months to cross America.

 

[Newtonian]

Continuing with 3D(1)(e) - if earth's rotation speed was even slower - once every 80 days or about 2,000 hours as noted the high would not actually be 1050 degrees in areas with a 50 degree mean (more likely c. 400 degrees) because of the oceans and you would actually hear sunrise and sunset! How so?

Once the surface temp reached 212 degrees, the ocean surface would heat to near the boiling point - once the boiling point of the ocean surface would be reached, the actual boiling would slow the temperature rise - in part because of clouds formed by the steam which would block the sun. Also, it takes much more energy to go from 211 to 213 degrees on ocean's surface than any other 2 degree temp change. But eventually, the oceans would boil violently which a possible high of c. 400 degrees. The deeper ocean depths would be relatively uneffected, but the continental shelves would be baked dry!

Survival would only be possible in polar regions and deep under the ocean.

But what of the cold 1,000 hour nights? Rather than dropping to 1000 degrees below zero, the temp would not go too near absolute zero. But a temp of -300 degrees is certainly possible in clear areas closer to sunrise.

At sunset, the temperature would drop to below freezing first. This would cause incredible snowfall - including in polar regions. Assuming 1,000 feet of the oceans surface boiled off in daytime, this would produce about 10,000 feet of snowfall at night - close to 2 miles high snow depth! In maritime climates, the oceans would freeze fairly deep - perhaps 200 feet thick ice.

At sunrise the temperature would rise so that the snow and ice would melt and cold ocean tsunami like surge of these waters towards lower elevation boiled off oceans.

You would hear the sunrise if the submarine you were in surfaced briefly to observe this incredible effect!

Can you imagine body surfing on such a 1,000 foot high wave!

Well, then there would be a rotation speed twice this - about 160 days of night and 160 days of daylight. Please note that the effect would ultimately cause most of earth's water to be frozen at the poles where day to night is not as significant as summer to winter.

OK, I will stop there for today. I'll let you all post why you think earth ended up with a perfect rotation speed of 24 hours while other planets have much different rotation speeds. Feel free to post research on this while I am offline.

Tonight is our only holy day, begining at sunset - so I will be meditating on another example of God's love for mankind as stated in John 3:16 - tonight is the anniversary of Jesus dying for our sins, beginning with the last supper. Jews used a lunar calendar where the new moon (moonth) is a new month. As Nisan 14 was the date of Jesus' death, it would fall on the middle of the month which is always a full moon - Nisan 14 is during the first full moon after the spring equanox - that's tonight!

Btw - the moon is closer to earth tonight - it will be a big event in that way as well!