In 2017, hurricanes do not sneak up on Americans in the USA....

[usmbguest5318]

Why were so many people in Houston and other areas that were predicted to get "slammed"/flooded by Harvey?

Would not "roughing it" on a dry or at least not flooded area by sleeping in the woods (in a tent or not), inside or atop a vehicle, in a barn, in an abandoned building, on a town sidewalk, a youth hostel, a shelter in another town/city, etc. be a better situation in which to await the hurricane and its effects' passage? I would think so because...

• sitting in a flooded home with no electricity or having it and risking being electrocuted,
• having no running potable water,
• very plausibly having no hygienic restroom facilities (which means one will be in the water with one's and others' bodily waste),
• possibly commingling unavoidably with garbage and any manner of other (bio) hazardous materials and "creatures" floating around in the water,
• competing with animals like gators and moccasins that are (1) better adapted to flooded environs and (2) looking for dry ground just as I would be,
• etc....

I live in the middle of a city, D.C. If I saw that a hurricane was coming and authorities advised leaving, I'd leave. On my way out, if I saw some trying to hitch a ride, I'd pick them up and give them a ride to someplace safe and well out of the way of hurricane. Where? Well, you know, the compass has four cardinal directions. Any one of them that's away from the storm will do just fine.


What motivated my creating this thread? Well, the fact that so many people who live in Houston and the surrounding area simply ignored the reality that is the lay of the land in Houston. (click the maps to see them enlarged enough to see the topo lines.)






That big bodies of water abutting Houston sits are called "bays," not "bathtubs." When is coming one's way -- and one is in Houston, New Orleans, Miami, and other low lying cities at the water's edge -- a hurricane that's predicted to drop some 26" to 40" of water, the smart thing to do is not be there when the hurricane arrives. Just as I can look at the topography and tell "oh, sh*t, there'a lot of water coming in from the sea and down from the sky," you know damn well the people who actually live there can do the same, and have more reason than the mere curiosity motivating me to look at a topo map of Houston.

There's also this...there is no city in the U.S. that won't have extensive flooding if 20+ inches of rain falls on it in a storm. (IIRC, the minimum amount of "single event" rain needed to guarantee flooding in any U.S. city is something like eight or ten inches.) The high ground -- ridges and hilltops -- won't get flooded in many instances, but the valleys between the ridges and hills can and will and flood. That they do is why farms thrive in valleys....all the nutrients run off the hill and mountain sides and settle in valleys and on plains.

The size of valleys varies. The one above is somewhat large. The one below is rather small.

Here's a depiction of a really, really big valley. It's so big that under it is part of an aquifer system.

The thing is that one doesn't need to live in a valley as big as the ones depicted above for the valley to flood. Accordingly, people in Houston had to know they lived either in what is topographically a swamp, valley or a plain. How do they know? Well, the fact that there're no mountains right is big clue. The relative flatness of the land is another.



Just now I heard that a levy is at its limit and people who live/work around and in the direction the levy's water will flow are being advised to leave. Lord only knows if they will.

 

[Ringel05]

I had a hurricane sneak up on me once........ I ended up marrying her..........

 

[SeaGal]

Well, after that interesting analysis - I have to ask - which are you...the cab driver or the hair stylist?

Not doubting your sincerity and interest but your questions have been addressed in numerous threads by folks who either lived through similar events, and/or were involved in rendering aid and/or are experiencing it as we speak.

 

[OldLady]

Why were so many people in Houston and other areas that were predicted to get "slammed"/flooded by Harvey?

Would not "roughing it" on a dry or at least not flooded area by sleeping in the woods (in a tent or not), inside or atop a vehicle, in a barn, in an abandoned building, on a town sidewalk, a youth hostel, a shelter in another town/city, etc. be a better situation in which to await the hurricane and its effects' passage? I would think so because...

• sitting in a flooded home with no electricity or having it and risking being electrocuted,
• having no running potable water,
• very plausibly having no hygienic restroom facilities (which means one will be in the water with one's and others' bodily waste),
• possibly commingling unavoidably with garbage and any manner of other (bio) hazardous materials and "creatures" floating around in the water,
• competing with animals like gators and moccasins that are (1) better adapted to flooded environs and (2) looking for dry ground just as I would be,
• etc....

I live in the middle of a city, D.C. If I saw that a hurricane was coming and authorities advised leaving, I'd leave. On my way out, if I saw some trying to hitch a ride, I'd pick them up and give them a ride to someplace safe and well out of the way of hurricane. Where? Well, you know, the compass has four cardinal directions. Any one of them that's away from the storm will do just fine.


What motivated my creating this thread? Well, the fact that so many people who live in Houston and the surrounding area simply ignored the reality that is the lay of the land in Houston. (click the maps to see them enlarged enough to see the topo lines.)






That big bodies of water abutting Houston sits are called "bays," not "bathtubs." When is coming one's way -- and one is in Houston, New Orleans, Miami, and other low lying cities at the water's edge -- a hurricane that's predicted to drop some 26" to 40" of water, the smart thing to do is not be there when the hurricane arrives. Just as I can look at the topography and tell "oh, sh*t, there'a lot of water coming in from the sea and down from the sky," you know damn well the people who actually live there can do the same, and have more reason than the mere curiosity motivating me to look at a topo map of Houston.

There's also this...there is no city in the U.S. that won't have extensive flooding if 20+ inches of rain falls on it in a storm. (IIRC, the minimum amount of "single event" rain needed to guarantee flooding in any U.S. city is something like eight or ten inches.) The high ground -- ridges and hilltops -- won't get flooded in many instances, but the valleys between the ridges and hills can and will and flood. That they do is why farms thrive in valleys....all the nutrients run off the hill and mountain sides and settle in valleys and on plains.

The size of valleys varies. The one above is somewhat large. The one below is rather small.

Here's a depiction of a really, really big valley. It's so big that under it is part of an aquifer system.

The thing is that one doesn't need to live in a valley as big as the ones depicted above for the valley to flood. Accordingly, people in Houston had to know they lived either in what is topographically a swamp, valley or a plain. How do they know? Well, the fact that there're no mountains right is big clue. The relative flatness of the land is another.



Just now I heard that a levy is at its limit and people who live/work around and in the direction the levy's water will flow are being advised to leave. Lord only knows if they will.

I could be wrong, but it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of these people have jobs that were not cancelled until the roads actually flooded. Employers always hope for the best. Of course, a lot of people do, too. I heard an official on the news this morning say that you can't predict where/how much rain will hit with the same accuracy that you can a hurricane. I was hearing about the predictions here in Maine two days before the hurricane hit Texas. I think they had a good idea.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Why were so many people in Houston and other areas that were predicted to get "slammed"/flooded by Harvey?

Would not "roughing it" on a dry or at least not flooded area by sleeping in the woods (in a tent or not), inside or atop a vehicle, in a barn, in an abandoned building, on a town sidewalk, a youth hostel, a shelter in another town/city, etc. be a better situation in which to await the hurricane and its effects' passage? I would think so because...

• sitting in a flooded home with no electricity or having it and risking being electrocuted,
• having no running potable water,
• very plausibly having no hygienic restroom facilities (which means one will be in the water with one's and others' bodily waste),
• possibly commingling unavoidably with garbage and any manner of other (bio) hazardous materials and "creatures" floating around in the water,
• competing with animals like gators and moccasins that are (1) better adapted to flooded environs and (2) looking for dry ground just as I would be,
• etc....

I live in the middle of a city, D.C. If I saw that a hurricane was coming and authorities advised leaving, I'd leave. On my way out, if I saw some trying to hitch a ride, I'd pick them up and give them a ride to someplace safe and well out of the way of hurricane. Where? Well, you know, the compass has four cardinal directions. Any one of them that's away from the storm will do just fine.


What motivated my creating this thread? Well, the fact that so many people who live in Houston and the surrounding area simply ignored the reality that is the lay of the land in Houston. (click the maps to see them enlarged enough to see the topo lines.)






That big bodies of water abutting Houston sits are called "bays," not "bathtubs." When is coming one's way -- and one is in Houston, New Orleans, Miami, and other low lying cities at the water's edge -- a hurricane that's predicted to drop some 26" to 40" of water, the smart thing to do is not be there when the hurricane arrives. Just as I can look at the topography and tell "oh, sh*t, there'a lot of water coming in from the sea and down from the sky," you know damn well the people who actually live there can do the same, and have more reason than the mere curiosity motivating me to look at a topo map of Houston.

There's also this...there is no city in the U.S. that won't have extensive flooding if 20+ inches of rain falls on it in a storm. (IIRC, the minimum amount of "single event" rain needed to guarantee flooding in any U.S. city is something like eight or ten inches.) The high ground -- ridges and hilltops -- won't get flooded in many instances, but the valleys between the ridges and hills can and will and flood. That they do is why farms thrive in valleys....all the nutrients run off the hill and mountain sides and settle in valleys and on plains.

The size of valleys varies. The one above is somewhat large. The one below is rather small.

Here's a depiction of a really, really big valley. It's so big that under it is part of an aquifer system.

The thing is that one doesn't need to live in a valley as big as the ones depicted above for the valley to flood. Accordingly, people in Houston had to know they lived either in what is topographically a swamp, valley or a plain. How do they know? Well, the fact that there're no mountains right is big clue. The relative flatness of the land is another.



Just now I heard that a levy is at its limit and people who live/work around and in the direction the levy's water will flow are being advised to leave. Lord only knows if they will.

I could be wrong, but it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of these people have jobs that were not cancelled until the roads actually flooded. Employers always hope for the best. Of course, a lot of people do, too. I heard an official on the news this morning say that you can't predict where/how much rain will hit with the same accuracy that you can a hurricane. I was hearing about the predictions here in Maine two days before the hurricane hit Texas. I think they had a good idea.

official on the news this morning say that you can't predict where/how much rain will hit with the same accuracy that you can a hurricane.

That makes sense. I fully understand how forecasters may be thus limited. Be that as it may, knowing or suspecting they have that limitation doesn't strike me as a reason to think that, with a hurricane predicted to slam right into my city and drop 20+ inches of rain "somewhere," being in my city while it releases some or all of that water is a good idea. LOL

 

[usmbguest5318]

Well, after that interesting analysis - I have to ask - which are you...the cab driver or the hair stylist?

Not doubting your sincerity and interest but your questions have been addressed in numerous threads by folks who either lived through similar events, and/or were involved in rendering aid and/or are experiencing it as we speak.

Show me such a post. I would love to read what the member had to say.

A few hundred people caught in the flood. I get that. A couple to few thousand. I get that too. Tens of thousands defies all rational thinking.

• The American Red Cross said Tuesday there are more than 17,000 people in Texas seeking refuge in shelters, including 45 shelters in the Houston area.

As stressed in the OP, my question is "why so damn many people," not why "this or that individual" or some small quantity of individuals got stuck there.

 

[OldLady]

Why were so many people in Houston and other areas that were predicted to get "slammed"/flooded by Harvey?

Would not "roughing it" on a dry or at least not flooded area by sleeping in the woods (in a tent or not), inside or atop a vehicle, in a barn, in an abandoned building, on a town sidewalk, a youth hostel, a shelter in another town/city, etc. be a better situation in which to await the hurricane and its effects' passage? I would think so because...

• sitting in a flooded home with no electricity or having it and risking being electrocuted,
• having no running potable water,
• very plausibly having no hygienic restroom facilities (which means one will be in the water with one's and others' bodily waste),
• possibly commingling unavoidably with garbage and any manner of other (bio) hazardous materials and "creatures" floating around in the water,
• competing with animals like gators and moccasins that are (1) better adapted to flooded environs and (2) looking for dry ground just as I would be,
• etc....

I live in the middle of a city, D.C. If I saw that a hurricane was coming and authorities advised leaving, I'd leave. On my way out, if I saw some trying to hitch a ride, I'd pick them up and give them a ride to someplace safe and well out of the way of hurricane. Where? Well, you know, the compass has four cardinal directions. Any one of them that's away from the storm will do just fine.


What motivated my creating this thread? Well, the fact that so many people who live in Houston and the surrounding area simply ignored the reality that is the lay of the land in Houston. (click the maps to see them enlarged enough to see the topo lines.)






That big bodies of water abutting Houston sits are called "bays," not "bathtubs." When is coming one's way -- and one is in Houston, New Orleans, Miami, and other low lying cities at the water's edge -- a hurricane that's predicted to drop some 26" to 40" of water, the smart thing to do is not be there when the hurricane arrives. Just as I can look at the topography and tell "oh, sh*t, there'a lot of water coming in from the sea and down from the sky," you know damn well the people who actually live there can do the same, and have more reason than the mere curiosity motivating me to look at a topo map of Houston.

There's also this...there is no city in the U.S. that won't have extensive flooding if 20+ inches of rain falls on it in a storm. (IIRC, the minimum amount of "single event" rain needed to guarantee flooding in any U.S. city is something like eight or ten inches.) The high ground -- ridges and hilltops -- won't get flooded in many instances, but the valleys between the ridges and hills can and will and flood. That they do is why farms thrive in valleys....all the nutrients run off the hill and mountain sides and settle in valleys and on plains.

The size of valleys varies. The one above is somewhat large. The one below is rather small.

Here's a depiction of a really, really big valley. It's so big that under it is part of an aquifer system.

The thing is that one doesn't need to live in a valley as big as the ones depicted above for the valley to flood. Accordingly, people in Houston had to know they lived either in what is topographically a swamp, valley or a plain. How do they know? Well, the fact that there're no mountains right is big clue. The relative flatness of the land is another.



Just now I heard that a levy is at its limit and people who live/work around and in the direction the levy's water will flow are being advised to leave. Lord only knows if they will.

I could be wrong, but it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of these people have jobs that were not cancelled until the roads actually flooded. Employers always hope for the best. Of course, a lot of people do, too. I heard an official on the news this morning say that you can't predict where/how much rain will hit with the same accuracy that you can a hurricane. I was hearing about the predictions here in Maine two days before the hurricane hit Texas. I think they had a good idea.

official on the news this morning say that you can't predict where/how much rain will hit with the same accuracy that you can a hurricane.

That makes sense. I fully understand how forecasters may be thus limited. Be that as it may, knowing or suspecting they have that limitation doesn't strike me as a reason to think that, with a hurricane predicted to slam right into my city and drop 20+ inches of rain "somewhere," being in my city while it releases some or all of that water is a good idea. LOL

Weather forecasting is SO much better than it used to be. When we have a storm predicted in the winter, we are usually within a few inches of the predicted snow fall, and the predicted time frame for the storm. It's rare these days to have a storm fizzle entirely or dump an extra foot of snow more than was expected. Maybe once a season.
So when the forecasters were saying 2-3 feet of rain in that part of Texas, I agree I would have reacted with alacrity, if I possibly could.
A lot of people don't want to leave their property due to looting; it will happen. That's a good part of why the National Guard is there. But they can't watch EVERY neighborhood. Damned cockroaches. They should get double sentences for doing that during a disaster.

 

[Dale Smith]

Hurricane Harvey was a geo-engineered storm using ionospheric heaters and heavy metal nano-particulates. I have followed and seen the satellite video of this low pressure zone that became a CAT 4 storm in a little over 48 hours as it was nursed along the Atlantic ocean. It broke up numerous times since August 16th and they kept zapping it and fueling.

View the "zapping" of the ionosphere over Corpus Christi drawing the storm towards it.

 

[koshergrl]

Behold the captive Dem voter.
They are not self sufficient, they expect other people to keep them safe, fed, protected, they do not believe anything can happen to them.

They do not research things like the lay of the land, they have no interest in flood plains..they don't have to pay for their housing or insurance. Other people pay for that stuff!

Their officials told them it was no big deal. Why would they question that?