Intelligence failures in the 20th century

[whitehall]

Where do you start? Prior to WW2 the US was a hodgepodge of competing inefficient intelligence networks. The Army Chief of Staff was the coordinator of military intelligence and J. Edgar Hoover spied on everyone else. Together they couldn't find Kate Smith in a phone booth. Along came Wild Bill Donovan's OSS (Office of Strategic Services). Donovan spent more time trying to convince FDR that an espionage agency was viable than he spent in the field. The Military intelligence network stabbed Donovan in the back every chance they had and Hoover had FBI agents spying on OSS agents. FDR didn't trust Donovan who was an old line NY republican and seemed to relish the political intrigue and in-fighting. Meanwhile the efficient British espionage network was reluctant to share any information with the OSS or the FDR administration. A critical moment for Army intelligence came during the lull in fighting when rumors went around about the Troops being home for Christmas in 1944. The Battle of the Bulge was perhaps the greatest failure of Military intelligence in American history.

 

[gipper]

Where do you start? Prior to WW2 the US was a hodgepodge of competing inefficient intelligence networks. The Army Chief of Staff was the coordinator of military intelligence and J. Edgar Hoover spied on everyone else. Together they couldn't find Kate Smith in a phone booth. Along came Wild Bill Donovan's OSS (Office of Strategic Services). Donovan spent more time trying to convince FDR that an espionage agency was viable than he spent in the field. The Military intelligence network stabbed Donovan in the back every chance they had and Hoover had FBI agents spying on OSS agents. FDR didn't trust Donovan who was an old line NY republican and seemed to relish the political intrigue and in-fighting. Meanwhile the efficient British espionage network was reluctant to share any information with the OSS or the FDR administration. A critical moment for Army intelligence came during the lull in fighting when rumors went around about the Troops being home for Christmas in 1944. The Battle of the Bulge was perhaps the greatest failure of Military intelligence in American history.

The biggest failure, above all failures, was failing to expose, remove, and imprision the numerous Communists and Soviet spies who littered the administrations of FDR and Truman.

 

[rightwinger]

Where do you start? Prior to WW2 the US was a hodgepodge of competing inefficient intelligence networks. The Army Chief of Staff was the coordinator of military intelligence and J. Edgar Hoover spied on everyone else. Together they couldn't find Kate Smith in a phone booth. Along came Wild Bill Donovan's OSS (Office of Strategic Services). Donovan spent more time trying to convince FDR that an espionage agency was viable than he spent in the field. The Military intelligence network stabbed Donovan in the back every chance they had and Hoover had FBI agents spying on OSS agents. FDR didn't trust Donovan who was an old line NY republican and seemed to relish the political intrigue and in-fighting. Meanwhile the efficient British espionage network was reluctant to share any information with the OSS or the FDR administration. A critical moment for Army intelligence came during the lull in fighting when rumors went around about the Troops being home for Christmas in 1944. The Battle of the Bulge was perhaps the greatest failure of Military intelligence in American history.

The biggest failure, above all failures, was failing to expose, remove, and imprision the numerous Communists and Soviet spies who littered the administrations of FDR and Truman.

Oh yes....the Red Scare

 

[whitehall]

Actually the HUAC (house unamerican activities committee) was established by a democrat majority in congress. It was a pretty good idea to expose the communist influence in society but when attitudes changed the liberal media managed to blame the whole thing on a republican senator. Little ignorant bean counter Harry Truman signed an order to dismantle the OSS after WW2 and scatter the responsibilities among the State Dept and the Army. It was a bad idea. Truman also dismantled the greatest Fighting Force in the world and we weren't ready for Korea either from a military or an intelligence standpoint. The Cold War and the communist revolution seemed to come as a surprise to the government.

 

[rightwinger]

Actually the HUAC (house unamerican activities committee) was established by a democrat majority in congress. It was a pretty good idea to expose the communist influence in society but when attitudes changed the liberal media managed to blame the whole thing on a republican senator. Little ignorant bean counter Harry Truman signed an order to dismantle the OSS after WW2 and scatter the responsibilities among the State Dept and the Army. It was a bad idea. Truman also dismantled the greatest Fighting Force in the world and we weren't ready for Korea either from a military or an intelligence standpoint. The Cold War and the communist revolution seemed to come as a surprise to the government.

It was just a lame excuse to hunt down and expel jews from government and the entertainment industry

 

[regent]

Actually the HUAC (house unamerican activities committee) was established by a democrat majority in congress. It was a pretty good idea to expose the communist influence in society but when attitudes changed the liberal media managed to blame the whole thing on a republican senator. Little ignorant bean counter Harry Truman signed an order to dismantle the OSS after WW2 and scatter the responsibilities among the State Dept and the Army. It was a bad idea. Truman also dismantled the greatest Fighting Force in the world and we weren't ready for Korea either from a military or an intelligence standpoint. The Cold War and the communist revolution seemed to come as a surprise to the government.

Most of us could go through WWII and find thousands of errors, thousands of bad decisions from platoon commanders up to the president. If America were a dictatorship certainly some of the political decisions made during the war and after would have been made differently. But it's not a dictatorship and with the war ended, the American people may have wanted to get back to a normal life; they had gone through the Great Depression, and then WWII and now they wanted to resume a life. The GI's also figured they had done their job and wanted to come home and politicians responded.
It takes no genius today to go back and see errors and miscalculations, and there are some biggies involving thousands of lives, but that's the nature of wars. And I guess it is the nature of post-war generals to point out the errors that were made.

 

[gipper]

Actually the HUAC (house unamerican activities committee) was established by a democrat majority in congress. It was a pretty good idea to expose the communist influence in society but when attitudes changed the liberal media managed to blame the whole thing on a republican senator. Little ignorant bean counter Harry Truman signed an order to dismantle the OSS after WW2 and scatter the responsibilities among the State Dept and the Army. It was a bad idea. Truman also dismantled the greatest Fighting Force in the world and we weren't ready for Korea either from a military or an intelligence standpoint. The Cold War and the communist revolution seemed to come as a surprise to the government.

It was just a lame excuse to hunt down and expel jews from government and the entertainment industry

Apparently you are not knowledgeable enough to discuss this issue with. If you knew history and were not indoctrinated with a bunch of left wing BS, you would know that the administrations of both FDR and Truman were infected with commies. The impact of this infection allowed the USSR to rise to a superpower, while enslaving half of Europe. And lead to the decades long Cold War.

My guess is you have no problem with Stalinist spies in the Oval Office telling that fool FDR what to do. You probably think it wonderful.

 

[rightwinger]

Actually the HUAC (house unamerican activities committee) was established by a democrat majority in congress. It was a pretty good idea to expose the communist influence in society but when attitudes changed the liberal media managed to blame the whole thing on a republican senator. Little ignorant bean counter Harry Truman signed an order to dismantle the OSS after WW2 and scatter the responsibilities among the State Dept and the Army. It was a bad idea. Truman also dismantled the greatest Fighting Force in the world and we weren't ready for Korea either from a military or an intelligence standpoint. The Cold War and the communist revolution seemed to come as a surprise to the government.

It was just a lame excuse to hunt down and expel jews from government and the entertainment industry

Apparently you are not knowledgeable enough to discuss this issue with. If you knew history and were not indoctrinated with a bunch of left wing BS, you would know that the administrations of both FDR and Truman were infected with commies. The impact of this infection allowed the USSR to rise to a superpower, while enslaving half of Europe. And lead to the decades long Cold War.

My guess is you have no problem with Stalinist spies in the Oval Office telling that fool FDR what to do. You probably think it wonderful.

The USSR crumbled......we won

One of the things we found out was that the Red Scare we feared so much was not anywhere near what the reactionaries were screaming about

 

[whitehall]

Actually the HUAC (house unamerican activities committee) was established by a democrat majority in congress. It was a pretty good idea to expose the communist influence in society but when attitudes changed the liberal media managed to blame the whole thing on a republican senator. Little ignorant bean counter Harry Truman signed an order to dismantle the OSS after WW2 and scatter the responsibilities among the State Dept and the Army. It was a bad idea. Truman also dismantled the greatest Fighting Force in the world and we weren't ready for Korea either from a military or an intelligence standpoint. The Cold War and the communist revolution seemed to come as a surprise to the government.

Most of us could go through WWII and find thousands of errors, thousands of bad decisions from platoon commanders up to the president. If America were a dictatorship certainly some of the political decisions made during the war and after would have been made differently. But it's not a dictatorship and with the war ended, the American people may have wanted to get back to a normal life; they had gone through the Great Depression, and then WWII and now they wanted to resume a life. The GI's also figured they had done their job and wanted to come home and politicians responded.
It takes no genius today to go back and see errors and miscalculations, and there are some biggies involving thousands of lives, but that's the nature of wars. And I guess it is the nature of post-war generals to point out the errors that were made.

Sometimes bad decisions were based on bad intelligence but the concepts are different. Americans always expect good leadership and the correct decisions from Washington but Truman was hand picked by democrats to run for V.P. when they knew FDR would not live through his 4th term and Truman was a political patsy who didn't have a clue. Truman was a bean counting senator and a failed clothing store owner. He was focused on saving money at a time when we needed a central intelligence agency and a strong Military. GI's left the Military when their enlistment was up but Truman fired reserve officers by the hundreds and cut funding for equipment and weapons. Korea was his call and he did poorly losing 55,000 in three years when the war should have been over when the original mission was completed in less than a year. Lucky for him the liberal media never met a democrat they didn't like.

 

[dilloduck]

Actually the HUAC (house unamerican activities committee) was established by a democrat majority in congress. It was a pretty good idea to expose the communist influence in society but when attitudes changed the liberal media managed to blame the whole thing on a republican senator. Little ignorant bean counter Harry Truman signed an order to dismantle the OSS after WW2 and scatter the responsibilities among the State Dept and the Army. It was a bad idea. Truman also dismantled the greatest Fighting Force in the world and we weren't ready for Korea either from a military or an intelligence standpoint. The Cold War and the communist revolution seemed to come as a surprise to the government.

It was just a lame excuse to hunt down and expel jews from government and the entertainment industry

link ?

 

[dilloduck]

D-day. Point du hoc. Telephone poles.

 

[rightwinger]

Actually the HUAC (house unamerican activities committee) was established by a democrat majority in congress. It was a pretty good idea to expose the communist influence in society but when attitudes changed the liberal media managed to blame the whole thing on a republican senator. Little ignorant bean counter Harry Truman signed an order to dismantle the OSS after WW2 and scatter the responsibilities among the State Dept and the Army. It was a bad idea. Truman also dismantled the greatest Fighting Force in the world and we weren't ready for Korea either from a military or an intelligence standpoint. The Cold War and the communist revolution seemed to come as a surprise to the government.

It was just a lame excuse to hunt down and expel jews from government and the entertainment industry

link ?

Hunting communists? They were really after Jews | The Jewish Chronicle

 

[whitehall]

Actually the HUAC (house unamerican activities committee) was established by a democrat majority in congress. It was a pretty good idea to expose the communist influence in society but when attitudes changed the liberal media managed to blame the whole thing on a republican senator. Little ignorant bean counter Harry Truman signed an order to dismantle the OSS after WW2 and scatter the responsibilities among the State Dept and the Army. It was a bad idea. Truman also dismantled the greatest Fighting Force in the world and we weren't ready for Korea either from a military or an intelligence standpoint. The Cold War and the communist revolution seemed to come as a surprise to the government.

It was just a lame excuse to hunt down and expel jews from government and the entertainment industry

link ?

Do you really need a freaking internet link for every fact? I'm not the teacher who let you sleep through history 101. Look it up and prove me wrong or shut up and do the hokey pokey somewhere else.

 

[dilloduck]

It was just a lame excuse to hunt down and expel jews from government and the entertainment industry

link ?

Hunting communists? They were really after Jews | The Jewish Chronicle

ah yes---great choice of biased material

 

[rightwinger]

link ?

Hunting communists? They were really after Jews | The Jewish Chronicle

ah yes---great choice of biased material

Look at the numbers and the percentage of accused commies who were Jews. Most were acquitted for lack of evidence, most had their lives destroyed in the name of patriotism

 

[dilloduck]

Hunting communists? They were really after Jews | The Jewish Chronicle

ah yes---great choice of biased material

Look at the numbers and the percentage of accused commies who were Jews. Most were acquitted for lack of evidence, most had their lives destroyed in the name of patriotism

The truth is that a hell of a lot of Jews were communists. They invented it and espoused it.

 

[regent]

Actually the HUAC (house unamerican activities committee) was established by a democrat majority in congress. It was a pretty good idea to expose the communist influence in society but when attitudes changed the liberal media managed to blame the whole thing on a republican senator. Little ignorant bean counter Harry Truman signed an order to dismantle the OSS after WW2 and scatter the responsibilities among the State Dept and the Army. It was a bad idea. Truman also dismantled the greatest Fighting Force in the world and we weren't ready for Korea either from a military or an intelligence standpoint. The Cold War and the communist revolution seemed to come as a surprise to the government.

Most of us could go through WWII and find thousands of errors, thousands of bad decisions from platoon commanders up to the president. If America were a dictatorship certainly some of the political decisions made during the war and after would have been made differently. But it's not a dictatorship and with the war ended, the American people may have wanted to get back to a normal life; they had gone through the Great Depression, and then WWII and now they wanted to resume a life. The GI's also figured they had done their job and wanted to come home and politicians responded.
It takes no genius today to go back and see errors and miscalculations, and there are some biggies involving thousands of lives, but that's the nature of wars. And I guess it is the nature of post-war generals to point out the errors that were made.

Sometimes bad decisions were based on bad intelligence but the concepts are different. Americans always expect good leadership and the correct decisions from Washington but Truman was hand picked by democrats to run for V.P. when they knew FDR would not live through his 4th term and Truman was a political patsy who didn't have a clue. Truman was a bean counting senator and a failed clothing store owner. He was focused on saving money at a time when we needed a central intelligence agency and a strong Military. GI's left the Military when their enlistment was up but Truman fired reserve officers by the hundreds and cut funding for equipment and weapons. Korea was his call and he did poorly losing 55,000 in three years when the war should have been over when the original mission was completed in less than a year. Lucky for him the liberal media never met a democrat they didn't like.

I'm not sure Americans should expect correct decisions from Washington, they may not always get it. As for Truman being a bean-counter, historians have rated Truman America's 9th best president, that's a notch above Ike.
Perhaps Korea is the last war we accomplished what we set out to do, and the most courageous thing Truman might have done was to fire MacArthur. Even FDR, no bean-counter didn't do that. In any case, Truman the bean-counter rated as America's ninth best president.

 

[whitehall]

Most of us could go through WWII and find thousands of errors, thousands of bad decisions from platoon commanders up to the president. If America were a dictatorship certainly some of the political decisions made during the war and after would have been made differently. But it's not a dictatorship and with the war ended, the American people may have wanted to get back to a normal life; they had gone through the Great Depression, and then WWII and now they wanted to resume a life. The GI's also figured they had done their job and wanted to come home and politicians responded.
It takes no genius today to go back and see errors and miscalculations, and there are some biggies involving thousands of lives, but that's the nature of wars. And I guess it is the nature of post-war generals to point out the errors that were made.

Sometimes bad decisions were based on bad intelligence but the concepts are different. Americans always expect good leadership and the correct decisions from Washington but Truman was hand picked by democrats to run for V.P. when they knew FDR would not live through his 4th term and Truman was a political patsy who didn't have a clue. Truman was a bean counting senator and a failed clothing store owner. He was focused on saving money at a time when we needed a central intelligence agency and a strong Military. GI's left the Military when their enlistment was up but Truman fired reserve officers by the hundreds and cut funding for equipment and weapons. Korea was his call and he did poorly losing 55,000 in three years when the war should have been over when the original mission was completed in less than a year. Lucky for him the liberal media never met a democrat they didn't like.

I'm not sure Americans should expect correct decisions from Washington, they may not always get it. As for Truman being a bean-counter, historians have rated Truman America's 9th best president, that's a notch above Ike.
Perhaps Korea is the last war we accomplished what we set out to do, and the most courageous thing Truman might have done was to fire MacArthur. Even FDR, no bean-counter didn't do that. In any case, Truman the bean-counter rated as America's ninth best president.

I think "historians" are over rated and self created. The media created the myth of the feisty little president. Korea was a monumental failure in National and front line intelligence. MacArthur never spent a single night in Korea during the time he was commanding general. He relied on his personal "intelligence" officer who sent only fiction and puff pieces to the Japanese palace where MacArthur resided. When Truman requested a meeting with MacArthur in Washington the general said he was too busy and Truman had to fly to Wake Is. MacArthur arrived in a disheveled uniform and refused to salute the president. Truman ignored the insult. OSS chief "Wild Bill" Donovan had dealings with MacArthur when they were both officers during WW2 (Truman was an artillery officer). Donovan said that MacArthur was a grand strategist but he was a timid and indecisive front line commander. When Mac's brilliant Inchon Landing cut the NK supply lines the mission was over. The US had beaten back the NK invaders and even taken the NK capital city of Pong Yang. The conflict was over and the NK was routed. Here's where it gets interesting. Contrary to popular "historian" versions China was not in the conflict until MacArthur decided to take his exhausted Troops to the Yalu River and liberate the whole peninsula. China warned the US not to do it but MacArthur took a platoon of fawning stupid reporters on a plane ride to the Yalu and it seemed like an easy walk in the winter. Subsequent reports are that an entire division of Chinese were camouflaged under the snow. MacArthur sent the American Troops into the biggest ambush in history and Truman did nothing. It wasn't until the (crazy?) general started threatening China with nuclear war that Truman finally mustered the balls to fire him.

 

[regent]

Sometimes bad decisions were based on bad intelligence but the concepts are different. Americans always expect good leadership and the correct decisions from Washington but Truman was hand picked by democrats to run for V.P. when they knew FDR would not live through his 4th term and Truman was a political patsy who didn't have a clue. Truman was a bean counting senator and a failed clothing store owner. He was focused on saving money at a time when we needed a central intelligence agency and a strong Military. GI's left the Military when their enlistment was up but Truman fired reserve officers by the hundreds and cut funding for equipment and weapons. Korea was his call and he did poorly losing 55,000 in three years when the war should have been over when the original mission was completed in less than a year. Lucky for him the liberal media never met a democrat they didn't like.

I'm not sure Americans should expect correct decisions from Washington, they may not always get it. As for Truman being a bean-counter, historians have rated Truman America's 9th best president, that's a notch above Ike.
Perhaps Korea is the last war we accomplished what we set out to do, and the most courageous thing Truman might have done was to fire MacArthur. Even FDR, no bean-counter didn't do that. In any case, Truman the bean-counter rated as America's ninth best president.

I think "historians" are over rated and self created. The media created the myth of the feisty little president. Korea was a monumental failure in National and front line intelligence. MacArthur never spent a single night in Korea during the time he was commanding general. He relied on his personal "intelligence" officer who sent only fiction and puff pieces to the Japanese palace where MacArthur resided. When Truman requested a meeting with MacArthur in Washington the general said he was too busy and Truman had to fly to Wake Is. MacArthur arrived in a disheveled uniform and refused to salute the president. Truman ignored the insult. OSS chief "Wild Bill" Donovan had dealings with MacArthur when they were both officers during WW2 (Truman was an artillery officer). Donovan said that MacArthur was a grand strategist but he was a timid and indecisive front line commander. When Mac's brilliant Inchon Landing cut the NK supply lines the mission was over. The US had beaten back the NK invaders and even taken the NK capital city of Pong Yang. The conflict was over and the NK was routed. Here's where it gets interesting. Contrary to popular "historian" versions China was not in the conflict until MacArthur decided to take his exhausted Troops to the Yalu River and liberate the whole peninsula. China warned the US not to do it but MacArthur took a platoon of fawning stupid reporters on a plane ride to the Yalu and it seemed like an easy walk in the winter. Subsequent reports are that an entire division of Chinese were camouflaged under the snow. MacArthur sent the American Troops into the biggest ambush in history and Truman did nothing. It wasn't until the (crazy?) general started threatening China with nuclear war that Truman finally mustered the balls to fire him.

We have little idea of America's intelligence system, I doubt if much of it is made public until some years later. The spies from the USSR are often mentioned in America, wonder if we had any in the USSR? Maybe even more?
If America does have a problem, you have suggested it, our wars are determined somewhat by politics. MacArthur had strong Republican support and in fact was mentioned as a Republican candidate for president a few times and both Truman and FDR might have taken that into consideration in dealing with him. In fact, we often reward our generals with the presidency if they are somewhat successful in a war. Wonder if Patraeus or Powell was ever mentioned?

 

[gipper]

How about we re-write history and cut out the commies who held sway over the idoit FDR. Let us imagine...
First, Germany would not have been ruthlessly and immorally destroyed in WWII and would have been able to contain Stalin's imperialist desires.
Second, the immoral a-bombings by dipshit Harry would not have occurred.
Third, the USSR would never have raisen to superpower status, thus the Cold War would never have occurred resulting in America returning to it's natural positon in the world...as a non-iinterventionist power.
Fourth, China might not have become a commie nation preventing Mao from murdering 50 million innocents.
Fifth, the Vietnam War might never have occurred thus allowing millions of Vietnamese to live and thousands of Americans to as well.
Sixth, JFK would likely have not be assisinated by the warfare State.

I could go now...but you can see the damaging effects of commies in the WH completely controlling FDR The Dunce.