Is the left really against schools hiring students or is the issue Gingrich said it?

[SAT2]

SAT2.... I don't know, but what you quoted wasn't posted by Jackson... It was posted by me.

I'm sorry for the mistake.

 

[JoeB131]

We understand your argument perfectly...

"Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, they are going to put our union buddies out of jobs and show kids that work is better than welfare. Oh, whatever shall become of us? Quick, let's bring up horror stories about the early industrial revolution, even though conditions like that couldn't really exist in this country with the modern technology."

Why is the idea of an adult losing their job to a child such a joke to you?

As for conditions not possibly being as bad with modern technology, you are far too old to be so naive.

Oh, it's an absolute joke to me.

What is an absolute joke to me is that because of union thuggery and political cowardice, you have guys who make close to six figures for mopping floors. More than the teachers do. It's pretty much everything that's wrong with government spending.

If it was just about the money, fire all the janitors and hire a cleaning service like any office building does.

 

[Iridescence]

SAT2.... I don't know, but what you quoted wasn't posted by Jackson... It was posted by me.

I'm sorry for the mistake.

It's not a big deal... I have found, however, some may be offended by such confusion.

One problem with what Newt said is the clear disdain that he shows for poor people. Claiming that poor people don't have any idea what work is? What a shithead.

Another, the idea that elementary school students should be used to save tax dollars in schools. Even nutters should find that to be stupid.

Newt knows what to say to make their brains light up.

We understand your argument perfectly...

"Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, they are going to put our union buddies out of jobs and show kids that work is better than welfare. Oh, whatever shall become of us? Quick, let's bring up horror stories about the early industrial revolution, even though conditions like that couldn't really exist in this country with the modern technology."

Why is the idea of an adult losing their job to a child such a joke to you?

As for conditions not possibly being as bad with modern technology, you are far too old to be so naive.

Countless progressives have said they have no problem with youth having the option of working. But they are raging against Newt having said we should provide the option.

The only conclusion is that they are doing it because it's Newt. not sure why.

No. The reason is that Newt wants to change child labor laws. Please be honest.

This does not have to be the case. Children could be given the option to work, the option of whatever chores that are available. When I was in building construction and CAD during my high school years we did projects for the community, who, then donated building materials and supplies toward our education.

I keep asking you guys to stop lying, and you just can't help yourselves. We are not talking about high school students.

I would encourage you to read back over my posts throughout this thread, as I am not specifically referring to high school students, either. I have nine year old twins that need lunch money. I have an 11 year old who is in the band and prefers certain types of movies. I also have a 14 year old that, well, really could use both the training and the money. When I was in high school, I had to take the nontraditional trades in order to achieve the personal goals I was aiming for at that time. I was thought to be disobedient and rebellious by many, if not most, at that time. If I was to be in a trade of any kind, most of my family wanted me to get into computers, but they bored me back then because there was nothing physically demanding about them.

I am not in support of taking children from their families and demanding eight hour days... I am in support of, however, something like volunteer work for the younger ones... at 11-13 10-25 hours a week of paid employment... and at 14-18 20-40 hours a week of paid employment, coinciding with BASIC schooling. If college is being considered then, of course, the work and school hours need to be understood as money potentially earned, accordingly, coupled with education achieved.

I would not support anything that pushes sick or children unable to work... but from what I have watched through the years is generation after generation being taught to BE DEFEATED. This is not PROGRESS, it is self-destructive for us, as a nation, to not confront this issue head on. It potentially will be the answer to several other problematic flaws within the already established system... like the price of day/child care.

 

[SAT2]

[
Oh, it's an absolute joke to me.

What is an absolute joke to me is that because of union thuggery and political cowardice, you have guys who make close to six figures for mopping floors. More than the teachers do. It's pretty much everything that's wrong with government spending.

If it was just about the money, fire all the janitors and hire a cleaning service like any office building does.

Your post is a joke, a piece of baiting bullshit, a stew of stuff that Joe thinks he can stir up the other side about. You don't believe half of that.

 

[SAT2]

"Really poor children in really poor neighborhoods have no habits for working and have nobody around them who works. So they literally have no habit of showing up on Monday. They have no habit of staying all day. They have no habit of I do this and you give me cash unless it's illegal," he explained last week in Des Moines.

If there were ever a better encapsulation of racist white privilege, out-of-touch elitism and asshole objectivism, I've yet to see it.

Hullabaloo

 

[JoeB131]

[
Oh, it's an absolute joke to me.

What is an absolute joke to me is that because of union thuggery and political cowardice, you have guys who make close to six figures for mopping floors. More than the teachers do. It's pretty much everything that's wrong with government spending.

If it was just about the money, fire all the janitors and hire a cleaning service like any office building does.

Your post is a joke, a piece of baiting bullshit, a stew of stuff that Joe thinks he can stir up the other side about. You don't believe half of that.

Not at all. You see, the money that these schools get to pay Johnny Ballscratcher six figures comes out of my pocket. So I really want the schools to be efficient. I want them to do what I have to do at my job every day, do cost benefit analysis as to how to spend money.

There is no good reason why a janitor should be making a) six figures and b) more than a teacher or c) more than someone doing the same job in the civilian world. None at all.

There's a bad reason for it. That these Government Worker unions can throw a lot of money at recalls and elections and the politicians either quiver in fear like Fat Quinn here in IL, or face losing their jobs like Scott Walker for doing nothing more than trying to get costs under control.

 

[SAT2]

Not at all. You see, the money that these schools get to pay Johnny Ballscratcher six figures comes out of my pocket. So I really want the schools to be efficient. I want them to do what I have to do at my job every day, do cost benefit analysis as to how to spend money.

There is no good reason why a janitor should be making a) six figures and b) more than a teacher or c) more than someone doing the same job in the civilian world. None at all.

There's a bad reason for it. That these Government Worker unions can throw a lot of money at recalls and elections and the politicians either quiver in fear like Fat Quinn here in IL, or face losing their jobs like Scott Walker for doing nothing more than trying to get costs under control.

And you actually believe that the problem of janitors making more than teachers is widespread.

 

[JoeB131]

Not at all. You see, the money that these schools get to pay Johnny Ballscratcher six figures comes out of my pocket. So I really want the schools to be efficient. I want them to do what I have to do at my job every day, do cost benefit analysis as to how to spend money.

There is no good reason why a janitor should be making a) six figures and b) more than a teacher or c) more than someone doing the same job in the civilian world. None at all.

There's a bad reason for it. That these Government Worker unions can throw a lot of money at recalls and elections and the politicians either quiver in fear like Fat Quinn here in IL, or face losing their jobs like Scott Walker for doing nothing more than trying to get costs under control.

And you actually believe that the problem of janitors making more than teachers is widespread.

That they are making any more than minimum wage is horrifying enough. This is NOT a complicated job requiring a lot of skill. And more importantly, I'm paying for it.

If I as a buyer contracted a cleaning company that paid guys to stand around and scratch their balls for two hours, and made twice the prevailing wage, my boss would be screaming bloody murder at me.

But this is ooooh, sooooo fine with you guys in the public sector. It's not OUR money.

 

[SAT2]

Not at all. You see, the money that these schools get to pay Johnny Ballscratcher six figures comes out of my pocket. So I really want the schools to be efficient. I want them to do what I have to do at my job every day, do cost benefit analysis as to how to spend money.

There is no good reason why a janitor should be making a) six figures and b) more than a teacher or c) more than someone doing the same job in the civilian world. None at all.

There's a bad reason for it. That these Government Worker unions can throw a lot of money at recalls and elections and the politicians either quiver in fear like Fat Quinn here in IL, or face losing their jobs like Scott Walker for doing nothing more than trying to get costs under control.

And you actually believe that the problem of janitors making more than teachers is widespread.

That they are making any more than minimum wage is horrifying enough. This is NOT a complicated job requiring a lot of skill. And more importantly, I'm paying for it.

If I as a buyer contracted a cleaning company that paid guys to stand around and scratch their balls for two hours, and made twice the prevailing wage, my boss would be screaming bloody murder at me.

But this is ooooh, sooooo fine with you guys in the public sector. It's not OUR money.

It's a yes or no question. Please answer it.

 

[JoeB131]

And you actually believe that the problem of janitors making more than teachers is widespread.

That they are making any more than minimum wage is horrifying enough. This is NOT a complicated job requiring a lot of skill. And more importantly, I'm paying for it.

If I as a buyer contracted a cleaning company that paid guys to stand around and scratch their balls for two hours, and made twice the prevailing wage, my boss would be screaming bloody murder at me.

But this is ooooh, sooooo fine with you guys in the public sector. It's not OUR money.

It's a yes or no question. Please answer it.

I think that it happens EVEN once is a travesty.

 

[SAT2]

I think that it happens EVEN once is a travesty.

I'll take that as an admission that you realize this is a rarity, and that you know that all this bitching you're doing is a sideshow.

 

[JoeB131]

I think that it happens EVEN once is a travesty.

I'll take that as an admission that you realize this is a rarity, and that you know that all this bitching you're doing is a sideshow.

No, I think it's a problem with the overall system. That it is even possible shows what the problem is.

We pay the janitors too much.

But do I know how commonplace it is? Nope. That it happens at all- that's a problem.

A teacher is the most important part of the operation. Far more important than the guy who throws some sawdust when little Sally vomits. One had to go to school for six years to get her job. But Johnny Ballscratcher has a good union, so he's making a comparable wage...

 

[SAT2]

I think that it happens EVEN once is a travesty.

I'll take that as an admission that you realize this is a rarity, and that you know that all this bitching you're doing is a sideshow.

No, I think it's a problem with the overall system. That it is even possible shows what the problem is.

We pay the janitors too much.

But do I know how commonplace it is? Nope. That it happens at all- that's a problem.

A teacher is the most important part of the operation. Far more important than the guy who throws some sawdust when little Sally vomits. One had to go to school for six years to get her job. But Johnny Ballscratcher has a good union, so he's making a comparable wage...

This is a sideshow, Joe. Move on.

 

[JoeB131]

Nope, I'm making a point.

Huge salaries and benefits for people who MOP FLOORS is everything that's wrong with the system.

Those jobs could be outsourced to private contractors for half the price, and the money re-invested in the schools or better yet, returned to the taxpayers.

If Public education had real competition through vouchers, it would be out of business.

 

[SAT2]

Nope, I'm making a point.

Huge salaries and benefits for people who MOP FLOORS is everything that's wrong with the system.

Those jobs could be outsourced to private contractors for half the price, and the money re-invested in the schools or better yet, returned to the taxpayers.

If Public education had real competition through vouchers, it would be out of business.

Define huge.

Why is it that private contractors can do the jobs more cheaply [please confine yourself to what you can prove?

If public education had voucher competition, it would be a far less democratizing force than it is today.

 

[kaz]

Government should prevent kids from getting jobs, provide unions with the force of government guns to be overpaid or just pay people directly to not work and then take care of their healthcare and retirement for them. Having a home, TV, cars and enough food to be obese doesn't mean you're not in "poverty."

Liberals voting for preventing kids from taking part time jobs in their schools are in fact just demonstrating their dedication to the lifetime no-work ethic that is liberalism. The economy over the last 10 years and stock market funk are demonstration of their success.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Find a liberal who agrees with Newt on this and I'll prove he's an idiot too. Does that answer your question?

Not really. You already proved they were an idiot. You said they are a liberal.

This topic didn't really work out too well for you, did it?

 

[kaz]

Find a liberal who agrees with Newt on this and I'll prove he's an idiot too. Does that answer your question?

Not really. You already proved they were an idiot. You said they are a liberal.

This topic didn't really work out too well for you, did it?

You didn't see the vote tally, did you my dear? And nicely done. You included the quote you were demonstrating...

 

[NYcarbineer]

Nope, I'm making a point.

Huge salaries and benefits for people who MOP FLOORS is everything that's wrong with the system.

Those jobs could be outsourced to private contractors for half the price, and the money re-invested in the schools or better yet, returned to the taxpayers.

If Public education had real competition through vouchers, it would be out of business.

School districts can do that now if they want to. NOTHING is stopping them from outsourcing if they want to do that.

When almost everyone who works for a living is poor, THEN will conservatives be happy?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Not really. You already proved they were an idiot. You said they are a liberal.

This topic didn't really work out too well for you, did it?

You didn't see the vote tally, did you my dear? And nicely done. You included the quote you were demonstrating...

Show me where ANY liberals ever supported this idea of firing school janitors and replacing them with children BEFORE Newt brought it up.

ANY.