Is there a god?

[K9Buck]

There likely can't be any proof so it'll stay a theory. But it can only be said that the BB was the start of our current universe.

Which was created following the laws of nature which were in place before the beginning of space and time. The same laws of nature which predestined beings that know and create. There is the proof you are so desperately seeking.

Proof of what?

That God is existence itself.

No, you just made that up. Not provable.

Totally provable through reason and experience. For any given thing, there is a final state of fact. Once discovered it is known that it was always that way and will always be that way. This is called objective truth or reality. So objective truth is eternal and unchanging which is the definition of God. Ergo, God is objective truth. Ergo, God is reality. Ergo, God is existence.

Totally confirmed through science. Science tells us that there has never been an uncaused event. So the only solution to the first cause conundrum is something which is eternal and unchanging. Ergo, God is objective truth. Ergo, God is reality. Ergo, God is existence.

Well said.

I don't believe Taz is interested in having an honest discussion. He is here to win an argument.

 

[ding]

Which was created following the laws of nature which were in place before the beginning of space and time. The same laws of nature which predestined beings that know and create. There is the proof you are so desperately seeking.

Proof of what?

That God is existence itself.

No, you just made that up. Not provable.

Totally provable through reason and experience. For any given thing, there is a final state of fact. Once discovered it is known that it was always that way and will always be that way. This is called objective truth or reality. So objective truth is eternal and unchanging which is the definition of God. Ergo, God is objective truth. Ergo, God is reality. Ergo, God is existence.

Totally confirmed through science. Science tells us that there has never been an uncaused event. So the only solution to the first cause conundrum is something which is eternal and unchanging. Ergo, God is objective truth. Ergo, God is reality. Ergo, God is existence.

Well said.

I don't believe Taz is interested in having an honest discussion. He is here to win an argument.

He's not here to win an argument. He is here to subordinate religion and faith in God.

 

[Humorme]

" I said there are both literal and figurative truths in the Bible."

That's called cherry-picking. Now you know.

And if you choose to not believe certain things in the bible as being true, how can you justify believing other parts to be true? Who decides? And how? By simply saying "this is stupid and can't have happened so it's figurative, but this part sounds like something someone could have said, so we go with it"? Flip a coin?

No. That is called intellectual honesty. The Bible has several literary types; allegorical, historical, law, poetic, prophetic, epistle and proverbial. I'm sure others may add or subtract to this list, but this is a pretty good start. When trying to understand the meaning of passages it is helpful to understand which literary type one is reading and also to place or read the passage in the proper historical light. Something that people who are intellectually dishonest don't do.

Taz knows better than to make the arguments he / she is making. But now there is an even better explanation for Bible interpretation. Thanks for the good job.

You guys are living in a fantasy world. None of the big stuff in the bible can be proven to have happened. Like seriously, you think that god poofed man into being? That's a seriously thick slice of nonsense. And that the earth was formed before the sun? It's completely unfounded and goes against all scientific knowledge.

You live in a fantasy world, unable to read, unable to use critical thinking skills, unable to read the links provided.

It's as if you need entertainment and attention more than information. Obviously you don't have a life and when you started using straw man arguments, you lost me.

When you can disprove history, come back and see us. This back and forth with you ignoring the evidence is not productive.

You have no real evidence and you know it, that's why you're getting upset. Can you prove that Noah lived for 600 years or more? Can you prove that the flood you claimed was The ONE covered the whole region over the mountain tops for 40 days? And no one has found Noah's boat, despite your fake site of Christians so desperate for it to be true that they made up a whole website for it...

I have plenty of evidence. I'd bet you can't find my grandmother's house built in the 1940s either. And it stood until 1961. The land is still there, nobody has changed a thing.

Life After People - Wikipedia

I'm not upset, I'm simply disgusted that you waste people's time on a subject NOT related to the OP and just want to get your cookies off arguing with people with no apparent motive in mind except your own gratification.

You aren't confident enough to allow the posters to read what was or was not proven. You presume you have a monopoly on understanding and evaluating while everyone else is an idiot. So, you're not worth anyone's time. I'll be skipping over your lies, inane remarks, and egotistical denials. If you wanted the evidence you would have READ the freaking links. I'll be skipping over the rest of your crap as it is not my job to babysit children

 

[Humorme]

Taz knows better than to make the arguments he / she is making. But now there is an even better explanation for Bible interpretation. Thanks for the good job.

You guys are living in a fantasy world. None of the big stuff in the bible can be proven to have happened. Like seriously, you think that god poofed man into being? That's a seriously thick slice of nonsense. And that the earth was formed before the sun? It's completely unfounded and goes against all scientific knowledge.

Spoken like a militant atheist on a mission.

Just pointing out that his views are contrary to science. You can't handle that.

Which scientific facts would that be, Taz?

Science doesn't say that an invisible being poofed man into being.

You failed science and reading.

 

[Humorme]

No. That is called intellectual honesty. The Bible has several literary types; allegorical, historical, law, poetic, prophetic, epistle and proverbial. I'm sure others may add or subtract to this list, but this is a pretty good start. When trying to understand the meaning of passages it is helpful to understand which literary type one is reading and also to place or read the passage in the proper historical light. Something that people who are intellectually dishonest don't do.

Taz knows better than to make the arguments he / she is making. But now there is an even better explanation for Bible interpretation. Thanks for the good job.

You guys are living in a fantasy world. None of the big stuff in the bible can be proven to have happened. Like seriously, you think that god poofed man into being? That's a seriously thick slice of nonsense. And that the earth was formed before the sun? It's completely unfounded and goes against all scientific knowledge.

You have to differentiate between what superstitious and irrational people claim and whats actually written.

It does not say that God poofed man into existence.

He was formed by God from the dust of the earth who breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and then became a living being.

You really have to read more carefully and think more deeply of you ever hope to become a living being yourself.

"He was formed by God from the dust of the earth who breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and then became a living being." If that's really how you think man came into being then ipso fatso, you live in a total fantasy world. And I'm sure that you realize it now.

Again an allegorical account of an actual event that was 6000 years ahead of science. You did come from dust, stardust.

The Bible said man comes from the dust of the ground he would return to dust. That's exactly what happens.

 

[Humorme]

I, personally, believe that there is a god. What that means, though, I have been struggling with for quite some time. Therefore, I pose the questions:

1. If there is a god, what does that mean?
2. If there is not a god, what does that mean?

I am looking for opinion, obviously, I do not believe there will ever be proof, or empirical evidence (at least not until rapture, assuming that there is a god). What I am looking for here is what people believe. What leads you to believe what you do? Why?

Let me be clear, I am NOT looking for evangelism of any kind here. I am looking for what the presence of god (or lack of a god) means to you. I know this is a pretty ambiguous thread, and I do that on purpose, because I do not ant to influence the way anyone responds. I want to open a discussion about what your beliefs (whatever they are) have shaped who you are, how you look at religion (in general), and how you look at the world.

Nope indeed not. The hardest thing indeed to come to grips with for posters here is we have been indoctrinated by our parents and what they taught before us by THEIR parents that there is a god and you cant go wrong being a christian.

I like most americans was brought up and taught by my parents that god created us and to go to church and sunday school and read the bible. this is hard for most people to accept but its a complete waste of time. when i tried to argue with my parents there is no god they would say-then how did you get here,how did the world get here? simple explanation for that.

Just study evolution,makes FAR more sense how we got here and how the world was created,than the bible or there being a god and a devil. Its a little complicated and hard to figure out at FIRST but if you stick with it and dont give up on reading it,it will make sense to you and you will understand it It is the hardest thing to accept for most americans,I get that.But as i saidmwhen you sit through and study it,it makes far more sense than anything our parents taught us or anything the bible said.LOL

Just think about it for a minute.GOOD PEOPLE die all the time,you see news items on the news all the time how a bus full of christians turned over and many were killed,happens everyday all the time. wow thats some kind of god out there protecting you there. The world is wayyyyy too fucked up for there to be a god out there.

And you, like all nonbelievers, cannot prove you can get something from nothing.

 

[Humorme]

You confuse critical theory for critical thinking. Critical thinking is the practice of challenging what one does believe to test its validity. Something you never do. That is the extent of your intellectual capability.

Don't cast your pearls to the swine and let the dead bury their dead.

Sadly with some people who were posting under false pretenses, it proved that Bible verse to be true. When you give them a pearl, they don't even bother approaching it.

 

[Taz]

No. That is called intellectual honesty. The Bible has several literary types; allegorical, historical, law, poetic, prophetic, epistle and proverbial. I'm sure others may add or subtract to this list, but this is a pretty good start. When trying to understand the meaning of passages it is helpful to understand which literary type one is reading and also to place or read the passage in the proper historical light. Something that people who are intellectually dishonest don't do.

Taz knows better than to make the arguments he / she is making. But now there is an even better explanation for Bible interpretation. Thanks for the good job.

You guys are living in a fantasy world. None of the big stuff in the bible can be proven to have happened. Like seriously, you think that god poofed man into being? That's a seriously thick slice of nonsense. And that the earth was formed before the sun? It's completely unfounded and goes against all scientific knowledge.

You live in a fantasy world, unable to read, unable to use critical thinking skills, unable to read the links provided.

It's as if you need entertainment and attention more than information. Obviously you don't have a life and when you started using straw man arguments, you lost me.

When you can disprove history, come back and see us. This back and forth with you ignoring the evidence is not productive.

You have no real evidence and you know it, that's why you're getting upset. Can you prove that Noah lived for 600 years or more? Can you prove that the flood you claimed was The ONE covered the whole region over the mountain tops for 40 days? And no one has found Noah's boat, despite your fake site of Christians so desperate for it to be true that they made up a whole website for it...

I have plenty of evidence. I'd bet you can't find my grandmother's house built in the 1940s either. And it stood until 1961. The land is still there, nobody has changed a thing.

Life After People - Wikipedia

I'm not upset, I'm simply disgusted that you waste people's time on a subject NOT related to the OP and just want to get your cookies off arguing with people with no apparent motive in mind except your own gratification.

You aren't confident enough to allow the posters to read what was or was not proven. You presume you have a monopoly on understanding and evaluating while everyone else is an idiot. So, you're not worth anyone's time. I'll be skipping over your lies, inane remarks, and egotistical denials. If you wanted the evidence you would have READ the freaking links. I'll be skipping over the rest of your crap as it is not my job to babysit children

Except that your evidence is bullshit, not backed up by real science. I read the links and they are bogus to prove anything about the bible.

 

[Taz]

You guys are living in a fantasy world. None of the big stuff in the bible can be proven to have happened. Like seriously, you think that god poofed man into being? That's a seriously thick slice of nonsense. And that the earth was formed before the sun? It's completely unfounded and goes against all scientific knowledge.

Spoken like a militant atheist on a mission.

Just pointing out that his views are contrary to science. You can't handle that.

Which scientific facts would that be, Taz?

Science doesn't say that an invisible being poofed man into being.

You failed science and reading.

You failed reality.

 

[Taz]

Taz knows better than to make the arguments he / she is making. But now there is an even better explanation for Bible interpretation. Thanks for the good job.

You guys are living in a fantasy world. None of the big stuff in the bible can be proven to have happened. Like seriously, you think that god poofed man into being? That's a seriously thick slice of nonsense. And that the earth was formed before the sun? It's completely unfounded and goes against all scientific knowledge.

You have to differentiate between what superstitious and irrational people claim and whats actually written.

It does not say that God poofed man into existence.

He was formed by God from the dust of the earth who breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and then became a living being.

You really have to read more carefully and think more deeply of you ever hope to become a living being yourself.

"He was formed by God from the dust of the earth who breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and then became a living being." If that's really how you think man came into being then ipso fatso, you live in a total fantasy world. And I'm sure that you realize it now.

Again an allegorical account of an actual event that was 6000 years ahead of science. You did come from dust, stardust.

The Bible said man comes from the dust of the ground he would return to dust. That's exactly what happens.

I came from my mother’s womb. Fact.

 

[K9Buck]

Taz knows better than to make the arguments he / she is making. But now there is an even better explanation for Bible interpretation. Thanks for the good job.

You guys are living in a fantasy world. None of the big stuff in the bible can be proven to have happened. Like seriously, you think that god poofed man into being? That's a seriously thick slice of nonsense. And that the earth was formed before the sun? It's completely unfounded and goes against all scientific knowledge.

You live in a fantasy world, unable to read, unable to use critical thinking skills, unable to read the links provided.

It's as if you need entertainment and attention more than information. Obviously you don't have a life and when you started using straw man arguments, you lost me.

When you can disprove history, come back and see us. This back and forth with you ignoring the evidence is not productive.

You have no real evidence and you know it, that's why you're getting upset. Can you prove that Noah lived for 600 years or more? Can you prove that the flood you claimed was The ONE covered the whole region over the mountain tops for 40 days? And no one has found Noah's boat, despite your fake site of Christians so desperate for it to be true that they made up a whole website for it...

I have plenty of evidence. I'd bet you can't find my grandmother's house built in the 1940s either. And it stood until 1961. The land is still there, nobody has changed a thing.

Life After People - Wikipedia

I'm not upset, I'm simply disgusted that you waste people's time on a subject NOT related to the OP and just want to get your cookies off arguing with people with no apparent motive in mind except your own gratification.

You aren't confident enough to allow the posters to read what was or was not proven. You presume you have a monopoly on understanding and evaluating while everyone else is an idiot. So, you're not worth anyone's time. I'll be skipping over your lies, inane remarks, and egotistical denials. If you wanted the evidence you would have READ the freaking links. I'll be skipping over the rest of your crap as it is not my job to babysit children

Except that your evidence is bullshit, not backed up by real science. I read the links and they are bogus to prove anything about the bible.

Out of mild curiosity, how do you believe the universe and we came into existence?

 

[Humorme]

Spoken like a militant atheist on a mission.

Just pointing out that his views are contrary to science. You can't handle that.

Which scientific facts would that be, Taz?

Science doesn't say that an invisible being poofed man into being.

You failed science and reading.

You failed reality.

You cannot judge something you've never been a part of.

 

[Taz]

You guys are living in a fantasy world. None of the big stuff in the bible can be proven to have happened. Like seriously, you think that god poofed man into being? That's a seriously thick slice of nonsense. And that the earth was formed before the sun? It's completely unfounded and goes against all scientific knowledge.

You live in a fantasy world, unable to read, unable to use critical thinking skills, unable to read the links provided.

It's as if you need entertainment and attention more than information. Obviously you don't have a life and when you started using straw man arguments, you lost me.

When you can disprove history, come back and see us. This back and forth with you ignoring the evidence is not productive.

You have no real evidence and you know it, that's why you're getting upset. Can you prove that Noah lived for 600 years or more? Can you prove that the flood you claimed was The ONE covered the whole region over the mountain tops for 40 days? And no one has found Noah's boat, despite your fake site of Christians so desperate for it to be true that they made up a whole website for it...

I have plenty of evidence. I'd bet you can't find my grandmother's house built in the 1940s either. And it stood until 1961. The land is still there, nobody has changed a thing.

Life After People - Wikipedia

I'm not upset, I'm simply disgusted that you waste people's time on a subject NOT related to the OP and just want to get your cookies off arguing with people with no apparent motive in mind except your own gratification.

You aren't confident enough to allow the posters to read what was or was not proven. You presume you have a monopoly on understanding and evaluating while everyone else is an idiot. So, you're not worth anyone's time. I'll be skipping over your lies, inane remarks, and egotistical denials. If you wanted the evidence you would have READ the freaking links. I'll be skipping over the rest of your crap as it is not my job to babysit children

Except that your evidence is bullshit, not backed up by real science. I read the links and they are bogus to prove anything about the bible.

Out of mild curiosity, how do you believe the universe and we came into existence?

Through the Big Bang.

 

[Taz]

Just pointing out that his views are contrary to science. You can't handle that.

Which scientific facts would that be, Taz?

Science doesn't say that an invisible being poofed man into being.

You failed science and reading.

You failed reality.

You cannot judge something you've never been a part of.

Says the guy who wears the magic underwear.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I, personally, believe that there is a god. What that means, though, I have been struggling with for quite some time. Therefore, I pose the questions:

1. If there is a god, what does that mean?
2. If there is not a god, what does that mean?

I am looking for opinion, obviously, I do not believe there will ever be proof, or empirical evidence (at least not until rapture, assuming that there is a god). What I am looking for here is what people believe. What leads you to believe what you do? Why?

Let me be clear, I am NOT looking for evangelism of any kind here. I am looking for what the presence of god (or lack of a god) means to you. I know this is a pretty ambiguous thread, and I do that on purpose, because I do not ant to influence the way anyone responds. I want to open a discussion about what your beliefs (whatever they are) have shaped who you are, how you look at religion (in general), and how you look at the world.

If God exists, who created God?

 

[K9Buck]

You live in a fantasy world, unable to read, unable to use critical thinking skills, unable to read the links provided.

It's as if you need entertainment and attention more than information. Obviously you don't have a life and when you started using straw man arguments, you lost me.

When you can disprove history, come back and see us. This back and forth with you ignoring the evidence is not productive.

You have no real evidence and you know it, that's why you're getting upset. Can you prove that Noah lived for 600 years or more? Can you prove that the flood you claimed was The ONE covered the whole region over the mountain tops for 40 days? And no one has found Noah's boat, despite your fake site of Christians so desperate for it to be true that they made up a whole website for it...

I have plenty of evidence. I'd bet you can't find my grandmother's house built in the 1940s either. And it stood until 1961. The land is still there, nobody has changed a thing.

Life After People - Wikipedia

I'm not upset, I'm simply disgusted that you waste people's time on a subject NOT related to the OP and just want to get your cookies off arguing with people with no apparent motive in mind except your own gratification.

You aren't confident enough to allow the posters to read what was or was not proven. You presume you have a monopoly on understanding and evaluating while everyone else is an idiot. So, you're not worth anyone's time. I'll be skipping over your lies, inane remarks, and egotistical denials. If you wanted the evidence you would have READ the freaking links. I'll be skipping over the rest of your crap as it is not my job to babysit children

Except that your evidence is bullshit, not backed up by real science. I read the links and they are bogus to prove anything about the bible.

Out of mild curiosity, how do you believe the universe and we came into existence?

Through the Big Bang.

What causes the Big Bang?

 

[Taz]

You have no real evidence and you know it, that's why you're getting upset. Can you prove that Noah lived for 600 years or more? Can you prove that the flood you claimed was The ONE covered the whole region over the mountain tops for 40 days? And no one has found Noah's boat, despite your fake site of Christians so desperate for it to be true that they made up a whole website for it...

I have plenty of evidence. I'd bet you can't find my grandmother's house built in the 1940s either. And it stood until 1961. The land is still there, nobody has changed a thing.

Life After People - Wikipedia

I'm not upset, I'm simply disgusted that you waste people's time on a subject NOT related to the OP and just want to get your cookies off arguing with people with no apparent motive in mind except your own gratification.

You aren't confident enough to allow the posters to read what was or was not proven. You presume you have a monopoly on understanding and evaluating while everyone else is an idiot. So, you're not worth anyone's time. I'll be skipping over your lies, inane remarks, and egotistical denials. If you wanted the evidence you would have READ the freaking links. I'll be skipping over the rest of your crap as it is not my job to babysit children

Except that your evidence is bullshit, not backed up by real science. I read the links and they are bogus to prove anything about the bible.

Out of mild curiosity, how do you believe the universe and we came into existence?

Through the Big Bang.

What causes the Big Bang?

We don't know. But not knowing doesn't automatically default to an invisible superbeing in another dimension who wants us to follow a book.

 

[K9Buck]

I have plenty of evidence. I'd bet you can't find my grandmother's house built in the 1940s either. And it stood until 1961. The land is still there, nobody has changed a thing.

Life After People - Wikipedia

I'm not upset, I'm simply disgusted that you waste people's time on a subject NOT related to the OP and just want to get your cookies off arguing with people with no apparent motive in mind except your own gratification.

You aren't confident enough to allow the posters to read what was or was not proven. You presume you have a monopoly on understanding and evaluating while everyone else is an idiot. So, you're not worth anyone's time. I'll be skipping over your lies, inane remarks, and egotistical denials. If you wanted the evidence you would have READ the freaking links. I'll be skipping over the rest of your crap as it is not my job to babysit children

Except that your evidence is bullshit, not backed up by real science. I read the links and they are bogus to prove anything about the bible.

Out of mild curiosity, how do you believe the universe and we came into existence?

Through the Big Bang.

What causes the Big Bang?

We don't know. But not knowing doesn't automatically default to an invisible superbeing in another dimension who wants us to follow a book.

Logic dictates that it didn't cause itself and that something outside of the universe "caused" it to happen. My guess is that is our creator but, you're right, I can't PROVE it. However, the preponderance of the evidence supports a creator. But if you want to believe the fairy tale that the universe magically "caused" itself to come into existence, that's ok with me. I'd like to believe that too, but I just don't have the FAITH.

 

[deanrd]

Is there a god?

Of course. I know of one. But I don't like to talk about it. All the bowing and scraping. It embarrasses me when they do it in public. I like to walk down the street without being bothered.

 

[Taz]

Except that your evidence is bullshit, not backed up by real science. I read the links and they are bogus to prove anything about the bible.

Out of mild curiosity, how do you believe the universe and we came into existence?

Through the Big Bang.

What causes the Big Bang?

We don't know. But not knowing doesn't automatically default to an invisible superbeing in another dimension who wants us to follow a book.

Logic dictates that it didn't cause itself and that something outside of the universe "caused" it to happen. My guess is that is our creator but, you're right, I can't PROVE it. However, the preponderance of the evidence supports a creator. But if you want to believe the fairy tale that the universe magically "caused" itself to come into existence, that's ok with me. I'd like to believe that too, but I just don't have the FAITH.

I think that an outside creator is a possibility (I'm agnostic) but an outside creator who wants us to follow a book that even believers argue over is kinda ludicrous, still possible, however remote the chances of that happening are. That's why I'm agnostic, there's no proof either way for or against the possibility of a god, but given real proof either way, I'm open to changing my mind. Seems pretty fair to me.

And one problem you have with your argument is that if there HAS to be a beginning to the universe, then why not a beginning to your god? It seems totally possible. So what I'm saying is that there are as many possibilities as there are ways we can come up with, and then some, so for myself, I'll simply enjoy the ride and keep abreast of the latest scientific discoveries in this domain.