It is certainly true that those who support abortion are monsters...

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Why don't you just keep your dick in your pants.

I do, thank you!

Do you have unprotected sex every time you see one? Who has the problem here?

Never mind. You could never get pregnant by the normal route. One look at you would cause impotence.

Have a nice day!

I have been married for more than a few decades. LOL. That should answer your question.

More than half of the women who have abortions in any given month are married or in a long term committed relationship. Are you seriously suggesting that married couples should forego sex unless they are prepared to give birth to a child they cannot afford to raise?

You don’t want people to have children they can’t afford. You don’t want to pay for income supports for poor families, or for their health care, or to educate their children.

You don’t want poor women to have job security if they become pregnant, nor do you want them to have maternity leave or subsidized health care.

But should a poor woman get pregnant with another child she cannot afford to raise, you want to make damn good and sure she pays dearly for having had sex, or having her birth control fail because she had a choice. She coulda kept her legs closed.

Lol
Not getting pregnant is extremely easy to do, it’s called responsibility. Most abortions are not a product of responsibility. No one should ever have to pay for someone else’s responsibility. So shut the fuck up

What does a MAN know about getting pregnant or not getting pregnant. Is your period regular, do YOU tolerate strong hormones well? Do you have any allergies to latex, or the chemicals used in spermicides? Are you willing to take drugs which increase your risk of heart attack or cancer?

Go home Russian troll.

Apparently, you don't know the most effective form of birth control.

Swallow.

 

[Rustic]

Breaking News....

The soulless , spineless, feckless T-Rump is playing the anti choice hypocrites like fiddles

Trump begged campaign advisors to hide his record of supporting a woman's right to choose

I would imagine Trumpy has paid for His share of abortions in His day.

As did every career politician...

 

[Rustic]

That is all you do is imagine. If you encountered a fact, it was cause you to question your own existence.

Hey!

I got a better idea.

How about you go fuck yourself.

Asshole.

Says a control freak

 

[Rustic]

When I am in heaven and you are in hell, I will ask God to send me down to give you a drop of water, and God will say no.

So I'm sending you water now. Repent, or be damned.

How much money do you give to your kid raping org, mr. pure spirit?
People like you make me sick. You probably make your god sick, too.

You can't justify your support of abortion by pointing out the sins of others. God's not going to accept that excuse.

Im not trying to justify abortion. I think it is inhumane to destroy potential human life like that. I just dont want the state wiping my ass for me like you.

Permitting abortion is the state wiping people’s asses for them. People who, despite contraception being the cheapest, most available, and easier to use than anytime in history, still have unprotected sex and are shocked when participating in the act of reproduction produces a baby. And then they ask the government if it’s ok to take a mulligan on it. It’s undeniable human life that we turn our consciousness off too and say, “go ahead and scrape it out, shit happens.” We don’t say that when people get blitzed and then hop behind a wheel and kill someone. Just because you can’t physically see it, that makes it better? It’s letting people who should know better make stupid decisions and erasing the consequences of that decision for them.

What part of this is ANY OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS????

The decision to have a baby is none of your concern. It’s not your life. It’s not your family. You don’t want to be responsible for this child. You don’t want to pay for its health care, housing or education.

If you believe abortion is wrong, don’t have one.

No one should have to pay for anyone else’s responsibility under any circumstances

 

[Rustic]

You can't justify your support of abortion by pointing out the sins of others. God's not going to accept that excuse.

Im not trying to justify abortion. I think it is inhumane to destroy potential human life like that. I just dont want the state wiping my ass for me like you.

Permitting abortion is the state wiping people’s asses for them. People who, despite contraception being the cheapest, most available, and easier to use than anytime in history, still have unprotected sex and are shocked when participating in the act of reproduction produces a baby. And then they ask the government if it’s ok to take a mulligan on it. It’s undeniable human life that we turn our consciousness off too and say, “go ahead and scrape it out, shit happens.” We don’t say that when people get blitzed and then hop behind a wheel and kill someone. Just because you can’t physically see it, that makes it better? It’s letting people who should know better make stupid decisions and erasing the consequences of that decision for them.

What part of this is ANY OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS????

The decision to have a baby is none of your concern. It’s not your life. It’s not your family. You don’t want to be responsible for this child. You don’t want to pay for its health care, housing or education.

If you believe abortion is wrong, don’t have one.

It’s my business just like it’d be anyone’s business to say people should be able to choose to euthanize the low functioning mentally retarded or autistic. This isn’t an issue of people injecting themselves into others business, it’s an issue ending human life or not.

Again you are trying to equate the living with the unborn. They’re not the same and you saying they are doesn’t make it so.

Again you are stripping women of their right to self determination and control of very personal decisions affecting their lives, their families and their futures.

IT’S NOT YOUR DECISION. YOU HAVE NO VOICE HERE.

If you want other people to pay for your responsibility… Damn right it’s their business

 

[Rustic]

Slavery was ended after a bloody Civil War that cost the lives of 600,000 Americans, and it might take something like that to end abortion. But abortion will end, that day is coming, because those on our side will never stop fighting until it ends.

No, abortion will never end. All you'll succeed in doing is leaving the law up to the states so states like mine will forever keep abortion safe and legal. The states that take rights and freedoms from women will cause a lot of innocent women to die unnecessary early deaths. You want to kill women whose pregnancies have gone wrong. Which is so far beyond sick I just don't have the words to describe my disgust for you and those like you.

In the early 90s an initiative was on the ballot for all citizens of my state to vote on. It's one of the three times the people of my state have had the opportunity to vote on the abortion issue.

That vote went the same way the other two votes went, choice won. That time the issue was no matter what a judge says, no matter what the congress in DC does, abortion stays legal and safe in my state. It passed with a healthy margin of over 60% voting for it.

So all you're going to do is create dead women and a very huge backlash against you and those like you who believe you have the right to take freedom, rights and life from women.

You don't have that right and you're going to see legislation that will prevent you people from turning women's bodies into political pawns for your political convenience.

By the way, abortion is at it's highest approval ratings right now in our nation. You people have always been in the minority on this so go ahead, tick off the majority. Just be prepared for the consequences of your extremely bad choices.

The problem with contraception then later with the lack of responsibility which is unwanted pregnancies is the irresponsible people want other people to pay for their lack of responsibility… That is socialism for you... a bunch of fuck ups

 

[Vandalshandle]

It's kind of fun watching Blackrook meltdown. Does a Catholic have to confess meltdowns to pedophile priests?

Catholics represent Catholics and only Catholics… As far as the priests homosexual behavior goes... why would you care?

I tend to oppose pedophiles, especially when they are institutionalized. I'm funny that way.

 

[Montrovant]

All kinds of things are alive without us granting them the sort of protection and value we do with people.

Yes, but only one kind of thing is alive and a member of the human race.

And there are all kinds of things that are alive and not human which are given far more respect and protection than human fetuses, by the exact same people who want to treat fetuses like infected tonsils.

I just don't like when the argument is put so simply as whether or not a fetus is alive.

Why, precisely, given that that IS the actual point of contention here?

That is not a point of contention. I doubt even the most ardent pro-choice advocate would argue that a fetus is not alive (or at least part of a living being). Instead, I think the points of contention would be whether a fetus is a person, or whether it is a separate being from the mother.

I would guess that the fetus being a separate living being is the point you are saying is in contention.

What else is it if it isn’t a separate living being? There’s no magic going on here, it’s living, it’s human, it’s separate. There’s no magical benchmark of “oh, exactly 22 weeks since conception, it’s now a living separate being.” We all know what happens, well, most should and those who don’t are willfully blind. It meets every threshold of the scientific definition of life. It’s not it’s mother, it’s not a tumor, it’s not an extra bag of skin, it has its own unique DNA. It’s not a fly, it’s not a horse, it’s not a sock, it’s not anything that’s not a human.

Person is an abstract term. What constitutes a “person”? Why are we basing what is and isn’t life on these abstract terms when we’ve had a functioning scientific definition of human life, and life in general, a long ass time ago?

Some argue that until a certain point of development, a fetus is still a part of the mother. At least, that is the impression I have gotten from a number of people in these sorts of arguments.

As far as what is a person, it is important in a Constitutional sense. The Constitution grants various rights and protections to persons, so determining what constitutes a person can be a very important consideration.

I don't want to argue the pros or cons of abortion. I'm trying to limit myself to very specific details; in this case, the idea that the important question is whether a fetus is alive. That is just an over-simplification of the question IMO. I prefer it to be clearer, as I don't think the vast majority of people, regardless of their opinions about abortion, would say that a fetus is made up of anything but living tissue. As I said, the argument would be whether the fetus is separate from the mother, or whether the fetus constitutes a person, and at what time those things occur.

I'm trying to have the question put forth as clearly as possible, I'm not answering the question. Abortion arguments almost inevitably go nowhere.

 

[Cecilie1200]

It is certainly true that those who oppose legal abortion are monsters, and they are stupid monsters for thinking that outlawing abortion will actually end abortion. It will only relegate abortion to the underground, unsanitary, unqualified practitioners who do not have access to proper medical facilities and equipment putting women at enormous risk.

Lets just set the debate about when life begins, whether or not it is a matter of privacy rights, and false equivalency logical fallacies comparing it to murder. The fact is that legal or not, women will have abortions for various reasons, Why not channel the energy in ways that reduce the demand and need for abortion, of which there are many?

I would really like to know how many of the people here who rail against abortion are willing to support the direction of resources to programs that prevent unwanted pregnancies and that provide supports to people who might choose to carry a child to term if they knew that help was available. That includes:

Meaningful and comprehensive sex education
Readily available and affordable birth control
Universal health care'
Affordable Housing
Nutritional programs such as food stamps'
Affordable pre school and day care
A living minimum wage
Laws against discrimination.

If you are opposed to any or all of these things but claim to be " pro life" let me tell you something . YOU ARE NOT PRO LIFE . You are a monster, and a stupid, hypocritical monster at that.

I just heard, "Look, over there!" *point left* "Squirrel!" *point right* "Up there! A distraction!" *points up*

I don't even recall the last time I saw that much goalpost moving in one post. You're gonna give yourself a hernia.

 

[Cecilie1200]

People it is simple, there is but one question, is a fetus alive?

All kinds of things are alive without us granting them the sort of protection and value we do with people.

Yes, but only one kind of thing is alive and a member of the human race.

And there are all kinds of things that are alive and not human which are given far more respect and protection than human fetuses, by the exact same people who want to treat fetuses like infected tonsils.

I just don't like when the argument is put so simply as whether or not a fetus is alive.

Why, precisely, given that that IS the actual point of contention here?

That is not a point of contention. I doubt even the most ardent pro-choice advocate would argue that a fetus is not alive (or at least part of a living being). Instead, I think the points of contention would be whether a fetus is a person, or whether it is a separate being from the mother.

I would guess that the fetus being a separate living being is the point you are saying is in contention.

That is most certainly a point of contention, because you are naive, not listening, or both if you aren't aware that EVERY pro-abortion advocate argues EXACTLY that. They only start biveling about made-up crap like "Personhood" when you corner them on the fact that you have about 50 years more current biological knowledge than they do. If they can get away with BSing about "blob of cells", they'll do it. Every argument they have is all about trying to deny the fetus's status as a separate, living human organism in its own right.

So yes, the argument gets to be put simply as, "Is a fetus alive?" until leftists stop dancing around and admit it. THEN we'll move on to the next point of contention.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

It is certainly true that those who oppose legal abortion are monsters, and they are stupid monsters for thinking that outlawing abortion will actually end abortion. It will only relegate abortion to the underground, unsanitary, unqualified practitioners who do not have access to proper medical facilities and equipment putting women at enormous risk.

Lets just set the debate about when life begins, whether or not it is a matter of privacy rights, and false equivalency logical fallacies comparing it to murder. The fact is that legal or not, women will have abortions for various reasons, Why not channel the energy in ways that reduce the demand and need for abortion, of which there are many?

I would really like to know how many of the people here who rail against abortion are willing to support the direction of resources to programs that prevent unwanted pregnancies and that provide supports to people who might choose to carry a child to term if they knew that help was available. That includes:

Meaningful and comprehensive sex education
Readily available and affordable birth control
Universal health care'
Affordable Housing
Nutritional programs such as food stamps'
Affordable pre school and day care
A living minimum wage
Laws against discrimination.

If you are opposed to any or all of these things but claim to be " pro life" let me tell you something . YOU ARE NOT PRO LIFE . You are a monster, and a stupid, hypocritical monster at that.

I just heard, "Look, over there!" *point left* "Squirrel!" *point right* "Up there! A distraction!" *points up*

I don't even recall the last time I saw that much goalpost moving in one post. You're gonna give yourself a hernia.

How the hell am I moving goal posts.?? I am trying to cut through the bullshit, the rhetoric the hysteria, the lies and misinformation. I am trying to focus the issue on facts and logic, something that you and certain others here seem to be incapable of. To bleat and blather about how those who are in favor of CHOICE is useless and stupid.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Why don't you just keep your dick in your pants.

I do, thank you!

Do you have unprotected sex every time you see one? Who has the problem here?

Never mind. You could never get pregnant by the normal route. One look at you would cause impotence.

Have a nice day!

I have been married for more than a few decades. LOL. That should answer your question.

More than half of the women who have abortions in any given month are married or in a long term committed relationship. Are you seriously suggesting that married couples should forego sex unless they are prepared to give birth to a child they cannot afford to raise?

You don’t want people to have children they can’t afford. You don’t want to pay for income supports for poor families, or for their health care, or to educate their children.

You don’t want poor women to have job security if they become pregnant, nor do you want them to have maternity leave or subsidized health care.

But should a poor woman get pregnant with another child she cannot afford to raise, you want to make damn good and sure she pays dearly for having had sex, or having her birth control fail because she had a choice. She coulda kept her legs closed.

Lol
Not getting pregnant is extremely easy to do, it’s called responsibility. Most abortions are not a product of responsibility. No one should ever have to pay for someone else’s responsibility. So shut the fuck up

What does a MAN know about getting pregnant or not getting pregnant. Is your period regular, do YOU tolerate strong hormones well? Do you have any allergies to latex, or the chemicals used in spermicides? Are you willing to take drugs which increase your risk of heart attack or cancer?

Go home Russian troll.

Well, honey, if it's the penis that's upsetting you, I don't have one. AND I've been pregnant and given birth three times, so by your "Fuck education, you have to FEELZ!" standards, I'm eminently qualified to speak about getting pregnant and not getting pregnant. Let's go. What's today's "But I HAVE to kill babies!" sob story?

 

[jc456]

It is certainly true that those who oppose legal abortion are monsters, and they are stupid monsters for thinking that outlawing abortion will actually end abortion. It will only relegate abortion to the underground, unsanitary, unqualified practitioners who do not have access to proper medical facilities and equipment putting women at enormous risk.

Lets just set the debate about when life begins, whether or not it is a matter of privacy rights, and false equivalency logical fallacies comparing it to murder. The fact is that legal or not, women will have abortions for various reasons, Why not channel the energy in ways that reduce the demand and need for abortion, of which there are many?

I would really like to know how many of the people here who rail against abortion are willing to support the direction of resources to programs that prevent unwanted pregnancies and that provide supports to people who might choose to carry a child to term if they knew that help was available. That includes:

Meaningful and comprehensive sex education
Readily available and affordable birth control
Universal health care'
Affordable Housing
Nutritional programs such as food stamps'
Affordable pre school and day care
A living minimum wage
Laws against discrimination.

If you are opposed to any or all of these things but claim to be " pro life" let me tell you something . YOU ARE NOT PRO LIFE . You are a monster, and a stupid, hypocritical monster at that.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

...I said a dead baby is a dead baby, and your justifications and excuses won't wash the blood away.

A pro-abortion person marked my post as "funny."

So, pro-abortion people think dead babies are "funny."

Anyone who thinks a dead baby is funny is damned.

Dead baby parts are very profitable to the progressive’s... Fact
Feminists love to kill the helpless....

We're all waiting for the day when you have something relevant, intelligent and useful to contribute. Not holding by breath.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

It is certainly true that those who oppose legal abortion are monsters, and they are stupid monsters for thinking that outlawing abortion will actually end abortion. It will only relegate abortion to the underground, unsanitary, unqualified practitioners who do not have access to proper medical facilities and equipment putting women at enormous risk.

Lets just set the debate about when life begins, whether or not it is a matter of privacy rights, and false equivalency logical fallacies comparing it to murder. The fact is that legal or not, women will have abortions for various reasons, Why not channel the energy in ways that reduce the demand and need for abortion, of which there are many?

I would really like to know how many of the people here who rail against abortion are willing to support the direction of resources to programs that prevent unwanted pregnancies and that provide supports to people who might choose to carry a child to term if they knew that help was available. That includes:

Meaningful and comprehensive sex education
Readily available and affordable birth control
Universal health care'
Affordable Housing
Nutritional programs such as food stamps'
Affordable pre school and day care
A living minimum wage
Laws against discrimination.

If you are opposed to any or all of these things but claim to be " pro life" let me tell you something . YOU ARE NOT PRO LIFE . You are a monster, and a stupid, hypocritical monster at that.

Thank you for that brilliant, thoughtful and informative commentary. As always, you excel in your boost the level of intellectual discourse to the highest level. We can all learn so much from you. God bless.

Now, perhaps you would like to comment on the issues that I raised that can actually reduce the demand for abortion. Please tell us more about how pro life you are .

 

[Cecilie1200]

Yes, but only one kind of thing is alive and a member of the human race.

And there are all kinds of things that are alive and not human which are given far more respect and protection than human fetuses, by the exact same people who want to treat fetuses like infected tonsils.

I just don't like when the argument is put so simply as whether or not a fetus is alive.

Why, precisely, given that that IS the actual point of contention here?

That is not a point of contention. I doubt even the most ardent pro-choice advocate would argue that a fetus is not alive (or at least part of a living being). Instead, I think the points of contention would be whether a fetus is a person, or whether it is a separate being from the mother.

I would guess that the fetus being a separate living being is the point you are saying is in contention.

What else is it if it isn’t a separate living being? There’s no magic going on here, it’s living, it’s human, it’s separate. There’s no magical benchmark of “oh, exactly 22 weeks since conception, it’s now a living separate being.” We all know what happens, well, most should and those who don’t are willfully blind. It meets every threshold of the scientific definition of life. It’s not it’s mother, it’s not a tumor, it’s not an extra bag of skin, it has its own unique DNA. It’s not a fly, it’s not a horse, it’s not a sock, it’s not anything that’s not a human.

Person is an abstract term. What constitutes a “person”? Why are we basing what is and isn’t life on these abstract terms when we’ve had a functioning scientific definition of human life, and life in general, a long ass time ago?

Some argue that until a certain point of development, a fetus is still a part of the mother. At least, that is the impression I have gotten from a number of people in these sorts of arguments.

As far as what is a person, it is important in a Constitutional sense. The Constitution grants various rights and protections to persons, so determining what constitutes a person can be a very important consideration.

I don't want to argue the pros or cons of abortion. I'm trying to limit myself to very specific details; in this case, the idea that the important question is whether a fetus is alive. That is just an over-simplification of the question IMO. I prefer it to be clearer, as I don't think the vast majority of people, regardless of their opinions about abortion, would say that a fetus is made up of anything but living tissue. As I said, the argument would be whether the fetus is separate from the mother, or whether the fetus constitutes a person, and at what time those things occur.

I'm trying to have the question put forth as clearly as possible, I'm not answering the question. Abortion arguments almost inevitably go nowhere.

Anyone who argues that a fetus is still part of his mother at ANY point is decades out-of-date scientifically, and should educate himself.

The Constitution doesn't actually have a damned thing to do with this, and never did. The REAL Constitution, that is, not the invented "living" Constitution that sprouts new "emanations" and "penumbras" every time you turn your back on it.

Why are you in a thread about abortion if you don't want to discuss the topic of abortion?

The question of whether or not a fetus is alive is not an over-simplification. It's the basic starting point that has to be established and acknowledged before you can discuss anything else. Abortion advocates always want to gloss past it so they don't ever have to state right out that they were wrong/lying on this subject since forever. Trying to "be clearer" without definitively answering that first question is nothing more than trying to AVOID that question and change the subject. I mean, look at you. You're trying to make it about this, that, and the other thing that allows you to slide right on by that fundamental question.

But okay, I can also answer all your other issues. A fetus is made up of living tissue, but that's a deflection, because "living tissue" is not the point. He is made up of living tissue, because he IS A LIVING ORGANISM, separate and distinct from all other living organisms, and all living organisms are made up - by definition - of living tissue. I am, you are, presumably even Cecile Richards is.

Not only is a fetus a living organism, distinct from the OTHER living organism which is his mother, he is a separate living organism from the moment of conception. There is no other point in time to which you can point with any level of scientific evidence and accuracy and say, "There. That is the moment when he became a separate organism, because XYZ."

"Personhood" is a bullshit, made-up concept which has no basis in scientific, medical fact. It is all about "feelz". There are hyper-emotional, hypo-intelligent dunderheads out there who will insist, with great passion, that their pets are "people". I can tell you that all three of my children were persons the whole time I carried them in my uterus, and with just as much conviction - although probably NOT the same level of desperation - as a woman heading into a Planned Parenthood will insist that her unborn offspring is NOT a person. Unless you have a scientific definition of "person", it all gets us exactly nowhere useful.

Abortion arguments almost inevitably go nowhere because, like you, people refuse to answer the question so we can move forward on the same, settled footing together.

 

[Cecilie1200]

It is certainly true that those who oppose legal abortion are monsters, and they are stupid monsters for thinking that outlawing abortion will actually end abortion. It will only relegate abortion to the underground, unsanitary, unqualified practitioners who do not have access to proper medical facilities and equipment putting women at enormous risk.

Lets just set the debate about when life begins, whether or not it is a matter of privacy rights, and false equivalency logical fallacies comparing it to murder. The fact is that legal or not, women will have abortions for various reasons, Why not channel the energy in ways that reduce the demand and need for abortion, of which there are many?

I would really like to know how many of the people here who rail against abortion are willing to support the direction of resources to programs that prevent unwanted pregnancies and that provide supports to people who might choose to carry a child to term if they knew that help was available. That includes:

Meaningful and comprehensive sex education
Readily available and affordable birth control
Universal health care'
Affordable Housing
Nutritional programs such as food stamps'
Affordable pre school and day care
A living minimum wage
Laws against discrimination.

If you are opposed to any or all of these things but claim to be " pro life" let me tell you something . YOU ARE NOT PRO LIFE . You are a monster, and a stupid, hypocritical monster at that.

I just heard, "Look, over there!" *point left* "Squirrel!" *point right* "Up there! A distraction!" *points up*

I don't even recall the last time I saw that much goalpost moving in one post. You're gonna give yourself a hernia.

How the hell am I moving goal posts.?? I am trying to cut through the bullshit, the rhetoric the hysteria, the lies and misinformation. I am trying to focus the issue on facts and logic, something that you and certain others here seem to be incapable of. To bleat and blather about how those who are in favor of CHOICE is useless and stupid.

No, you are trying to change the subject, and make the abortion debate about every damned thing under the sun EXCEPT abortion. I have no interest in the "facts and logic" of deflecting, thank you very much. Unlike you, I don't have to be afraid or ashamed of what I'm advocating.

 

[BILLSANDS]

The only verses I know that address the legal status of “seed” in the womb come in a brief section of case law.

Exodus 21:22-25 describes a case where a pregnant woman jumps into a fight between her husband and another man and suffers injuries that cause her to miscarry. Injuries to the woman prompt the normal penalties for harming another human being: an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a life for a life. Killing the woman is murder, a capital crime.

The miscarriage is treated differently, however — as property loss, not murder. The assailant must pay a fine to the husband. The law of a life for a life does not apply. The fetus is important, but it’s not human life in the same way the pregnant woman is.

My impression is that most Americans have a more nuanced and conservative view than the Bible does on this, though we’re getting at the same idea: an important moral and legal line is crossed when the fetus can survive outside the womb.

 

[Dana7360]

Why don't you just keep your dick in your pants.

I do, thank you!

Do you have unprotected sex every time you see one? Who has the problem here?

Never mind. You could never get pregnant by the normal route. One look at you would cause impotence.

Have a nice day!

I have been married for more than a few decades. LOL. That should answer your question.

More than half of the women who have abortions in any given month are married or in a long term committed relationship. Are you seriously suggesting that married couples should forego sex unless they are prepared to give birth to a child they cannot afford to raise?

You don’t want people to have children they can’t afford. You don’t want to pay for income supports for poor families, or for their health care, or to educate their children.

You don’t want poor women to have job security if they become pregnant, nor do you want them to have maternity leave or subsidized health care.

But should a poor woman get pregnant with another child she cannot afford to raise, you want to make damn good and sure she pays dearly for having had sex, or having her birth control fail because she had a choice. She coulda kept her legs closed.

Lol
Not getting pregnant is extremely easy to do, it’s called responsibility. Most abortions are not a product of responsibility. No one should ever have to pay for someone else’s responsibility. So shut the fuck up

What does a MAN know about getting pregnant or not getting pregnant. Is your period regular, do YOU tolerate strong hormones well? Do you have any allergies to latex, or the chemicals used in spermicides? Are you willing to take drugs which increase your risk of heart attack or cancer?

Go home Russian troll.

It's useless to talk about this subject with people who can't get pregnant and usually don't use any form of birth control.

You're right. Nothing's perfect. All forms of birth control have a failure rate. Mostly because we humans make mistakes.

Or things like doctors who don't tell their patients that the antibiotic they just prescribed them will make the pill ineffective. I know someone who got pregnant that way.

Even having a your tubes tied or a vasectomy isn't 100%.

When my oldest sister was doing her OB residency she had a patient who had her tubes tied. Her husband had a vasectomy. She ended up pregnant.

I had an assistant who had her tubes tied. She ended up pregnant.

An old boyfriend of mine sister in law had her tubes tied. She ended up pregnant.

Nothing is perfect. However something is better than nothing. Use birth control if you don't want to be pregnant.

I just worry about women. Women are going to end up dying and in prison. Women are going to have to endure investigations into a miscarriage. In just ectopic pregnancy alone, over 65 thousand American women would die a year if they're denied that abortion. No woman ever survives an ectopic pregnancy without an abortion. Whether it's done before the woman's life is put in jeopardy or when the woman is in an ER fighting for her life because she was denied that life saving abortion. No woman should have to die because her pregnancy went wrong and no woman should ever have to justify a miscarriage.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The only verses I know that address the legal status of “seed” in the womb come in a brief section of case law.

Exodus 21:22-25 describes a case where a pregnant woman jumps into a fight between her husband and another man and suffers injuries that cause her to miscarry. Injuries to the woman prompt the normal penalties for harming another human being: an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a life for a life. Killing the woman is murder, a capital crime.

The miscarriage is treated differently, however — as property loss, not murder. The assailant must pay a fine to the husband. The law of a life for a life does not apply. The fetus is important, but it’s not human life in the same way the pregnant woman is.

My impression is that most Americans have a more nuanced and conservative view than the Bible does on this, though we’re getting at the same idea: an important moral and legal line is crossed when the fetus can survive outside the womb.

To whom or what are you responding? Because I'm a little lost as to what this is apropos of.