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I love it when constitutional originalists hop between feet.
No, it really doesn't reinforce your argument. In fact, it's a giant crack in your logic.
Then you're more of an idiot than I gave you credit for.
Explain how adding "In God We Trust " on currency in the 1950's lessens my point about separation of church and state.
It's simple, really. NONE of the founding fathers added anything of the sort to ANYTHING we see it on today. Not money. Not the pledge. Not the Anthem. nothing. Instead, such was added almost 150 AFTER the founding fathers signed that little document that you'd otherwise be crying about originalism with. your "point" is laughable at best. Thomas Jefferson was not about to put a nod to god on ANYTHING. Hell, the fucking bible didn't go unscathed from his deep rooted humanism. Yet, apparently, the FFs would have supported some bullshit that happened to get passed 150 years later? bitch, please. If a liberal did the same thing today you'd be crying about original intent.
School busses can be "rented" for non-school activities by just about anyone or group. So again, not knowing the specifics it could have been perfectly legal. To the best of my knowledge none of us here were the proverbial fly on the wall so passing judgement without having all the facts is nothing more than surrendering reason and logic to emotive deduction.
Good point
But I would disagree with renting school buses out to groups. It can cause real problems for the school district. I don't know how many (or if any for that matter) do this - but it's a very bad idea imho. I know schools are looking for money wherever they can - but this is potentially a very big problem.
psst: Most school bus companies are private and the "public" schools are not the only customers that contract their services.
According to one of Contessa's links, the coach paid for the gas. But he didn't rent the bus...he didn't pay for the wear and tear on the vehicle, and he didn't pay for liability insurance.The fact that a school bus was used proves nothing. However, if it turns out that the rental itself was on the taxpayer's dime, then it's a clear violation of the establishment clause (as it's been interpretted).
He's wrong.Good point
But I would disagree with renting school buses out to groups. It can cause real problems for the school district. I don't know how many (or if any for that matter) do this - but it's a very bad idea imho. I know schools are looking for money wherever they can - but this is potentially a very big problem.
psst: Most school bus companies are private and the "public" schools are not the only customers that contract their services.
Thanks, that was a piece of info I didn't know (most school bus companies are private).
Father of the United States Constitution, James Madison had this clause put into the Constitution, in order that the government would never again force citizens to attend a state-controlled church, such as the Anglican Church in Virginia had been.
It's a Public School-Sponsored Baptism Party!
By Brantley Hargrove in Crazy Crap, Hargrove
Tuesday, Sep. 8 2009 @ 2:30PM
​From the state that brought you the Creation Museum comes the latest in religious buffoonery, this time with an un-Constitutional twist!
While the fringe (and even respectable media) work themselves into apoplectic fits of indignation over potential socialist indoctrination of our impressionable school-age youth by the evil Obama, one Kentucky school district is taking it to the next level: Actual indoctrination of impressionable school-age kids! Only it's acceptable, see? Because it's Christian.
A Breckenridge County High School football coach took the school bus and 20 football players to an impromptu religious revival. Nearly half of them were baptized. But it gets better! The freakin' superintendent of the school district was there, praising Jesus right along with them! I hate to resort to barbarous, foreshortened blasphemy, but OMFG.
Of course, the coaches claim everything was kosher because they paid for the gas (that went into the public school bus) and attendance was optional. Right, because a high school-age football player who desperately wants to be part of a cohesive team won't feel pressured at all to participate in a field trip endorsed by the man in the ultimate position of power (the coach) and the superintendent no less.
One parent is already pretty pissed off: "Nobody should push their faith on anybody else," concerned mom Michelle Ammons told the Louisville Courier-Journal.
Because the Breckenridge County School District appears to be clearly violating the principle of the separation of church and state by taking school-sanctioned Jesus field trips, we here at Pith hope Michelle sues the bejesus out of them.
You mean when whites and blacks went to seperate schools? Drank from seperate water fountains? When black students were not allowed to attend state universities? When women weren't allowed to vote?Also keep in mind that children were taught to read using Christian primers and reciting bibilcal passages, when we were closer to what this country was supposed to be and what our forefathers determined it should be.
You and I obviously have very different visions of what the United States of America is "supposed to be" and I for one am darn glad we are moving away from your vision and closer to mine.
According to one of Contessa's links, the coach paid for the gas. But he didn't rent the bus...he didn't pay for the wear and tear on the vehicle, and he didn't pay for liability insurance.The fact that a school bus was used proves nothing. However, if it turns out that the rental itself was on the taxpayer's dime, then it's a clear violation of the establishment clause (as it's been interpretted).
And I don't know where you get this that most school buses are privately owned. Our school system and every public school I've ever dealt with uses buses owned by the county.
According to one of Contessa's links, the coach paid for the gas. But he didn't rent the bus...he didn't pay for the wear and tear on the vehicle, and he didn't pay for liability insurance.The fact that a school bus was used proves nothing. However, if it turns out that the rental itself was on the taxpayer's dime, then it's a clear violation of the establishment clause (as it's been interpretted).
And I don't know where you get this that most school buses are privately owned. Our school system and every public school I've ever dealt with uses buses owned by the county.
I suppose it is different depending on the state. I live in a "red" state...our buses belong to the county. For balance I searched in a "blue" state...MA...and the jobs I found for bus drivers were county or city jobs.According to one of Contessa's links, the coach paid for the gas. But he didn't rent the bus...he didn't pay for the wear and tear on the vehicle, and he didn't pay for liability insurance.The fact that a school bus was used proves nothing. However, if it turns out that the rental itself was on the taxpayer's dime, then it's a clear violation of the establishment clause (as it's been interpretted).
And I don't know where you get this that most school buses are privately owned. Our school system and every public school I've ever dealt with uses buses owned by the county.
It depends on where you live. Around here, most school districts don't even have busses and have to rent them from private companies for field trips etc.
To whom are reffering when you say "you guys?"You guys were all for subjugating and continuing a tradition which was already being fought against by abolitionists (Republicans) who saw it for the atrocity it was. Just as you're all for creating a class of citizens who are denied the right to practice their own religion and using the schools to do it. Or subjugating the poor by keeping them poor, encouraging them to have sex, and imploring them to abort themselves out of existence.
The United States of America is much closer today of that vision of equality and freedom for all than it ever has been. And that includes the freedom to practice WHATEVER religion you choose - we do not have a state religion - the United States is not a Christian country. It is a country that respects all faiths and the rejection of faith as well.
And a school doesn't "deny" a child access to his faith. Children and their parents have plenty of time to do that outside of school. There is no place for religious activities in public schools - or else they must make arrangements for ALL faiths to be accomodated.
You mean when whites and blacks went to seperate schools? Drank from seperate water fountains? When black students were not allowed to attend state universities? When women weren't allowed to vote?Also keep in mind that children were taught to read using Christian primers and reciting bibilcal passages, when we were closer to what this country was supposed to be and what our forefathers determined it should be.
You and I obviously have very different visions of what the United States of America is "supposed to be" and I for one am darn glad we are moving away from your vision and closer to mine.
pity---we now have more laws prohibiting us from doing, thinking and saying things than ever. Is that your vision? The loss of individual freedoms ?
The declaration is not the CONSTITUTION. Tell me. what rights and liberties does the declaration grant? How does it define out laws or amendment process?
state preambles, again, are not the CONSTITUTION. State buildings also have Hamurabi and a host of Greeks. what, exactly, do you want to go on the record suggesting that this means? Do you want me to literally SHOW YOU images of the pegan Hamurabi on the fucking supreme court?
Speaking of actual FOUNDING FATHERS, instead of some silly fucking dogma junkie a hundred years later, I can unequivicably show you the Treaty of Tripoli which conveys that the US is not, in fact, any more of a CHRISTIAN nation than it is hindi or muslim. Those are FOUNDING FATHER words, silly guy. Not some ironic bastard from 50 years ago trying to insert Jesus into anything that walked.
Displaying the ten commandments ALONG WITH THE MAGNA CARTA OR HAMMURABIS LAWS is not any kind of validation, stupid. It's a historic timeline of occasions of LAW. This is why you'll see moses hanging out with some pegan from BABYLON on the same damn building, genius.
seriously.. the shit you people try to believe is really no wonder given the range of goofy religious shit you'll fall for.
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Treaty of Tripoli - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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KY school district official ok with baptizing footballers, but students forced to 'opt-in' for Obama speech
I had a hunch.
As I was writing up a little story this morning about a Kentucky high school football coach who took his players to a Baptist revival where several were baptized -- at least one without parental consent -- I said to myself, I bet they didn't play Obama's speech today.
A quick phone call to the high school got me transferred to the school district's main offices, where a friendly woman answered but did not want to give her name when I identified myself as a reporter.
"Mam'," I began, "I just have one question that's not even related to the baptism thing and the coach. I just want to know if the district's schools played President Obama's speech on education today."
She responded by putting me on hold. Upon returning, she claimed to have no first-hand knowledge but had been told by someone else in the office that ...
"The students who watched the president's speech today had to get a note signed by their parents that said they could watch it."
In other words, students at the school district where a top official -- the superintendent -- does not see anything wrong with taking football players to be baptized at a Christian revival, were forced to get a parent's signature to "opt-in" (instead of out) for the president's speech.
As Johnny Carson used to say, "Weird, wild, wacky stuff."
Father of the United States Constitution, James Madison had this clause put into the Constitution, in order that the government would never again force citizens to attend a state-controlled church, such as the Anglican Church in Virginia had been.
Public schools are state controlled. When you introduce religion into the mix, they become defacto state controlled churches. Either way, why on earth anyone would want the government screwing up their religion is beyond me. Just plain shortsightedness.
The declaration is not the CONSTITUTION. Tell me. what rights and liberties does the declaration grant? How does it define out laws or amendment process?
state preambles, again, are not the CONSTITUTION. State buildings also have Hamurabi and a host of Greeks. what, exactly, do you want to go on the record suggesting that this means? Do you want me to literally SHOW YOU images of the pegan Hamurabi on the fucking supreme court?
Speaking of actual FOUNDING FATHERS, instead of some silly fucking dogma junkie a hundred years later, I can unequivicably show you the Treaty of Tripoli which conveys that the US is not, in fact, any more of a CHRISTIAN nation than it is hindi or muslim. Those are FOUNDING FATHER words, silly guy. Not some ironic bastard from 50 years ago trying to insert Jesus into anything that walked.
seriously.. the shit you people try to believe is really no wonder given the range of goofy religious shit you'll fall for.