CDZ Labor in the US

[IsaacNewton]

The story though was about coal miners, though again their plight is a repeating of events that have happened in the past regarding various industries.

The problem with the economy becoming part of the 'global economy' is that now our businesses and labor have to compete against labor that gets paid 4 times less than in the US. The same with manufactured goods prices. Because of labor costs steel made in Korea costs less than it can be made for in the US so our factories lose business and shut down.

There are signs that labor in China is moving towards unions because they want much better wages and a safer work environment, things that are universal to human beings, so over time there may be a leveling of cost disparities and those jobs, or at least some of them, come back to the US.

But, the overall trend is that the sentiment among blue collar workers that the days of every generation advancing, making more money, having a better life than their parents IS changing to a more stagnant or plateau of lifestyle. And it isn't because of government policies it is because where US manufacturing once only competed on a large scale against other businesses in the US, it now competes with all business around the world where, again, labor costs are far lower. As noted above a natural trend. Similar to how Walmart has forced millions of mom and pop stores out of business because they can't get the volume discounts on goods that Walmart's bulk buying can.

 

[oldsoul]

A report from CNN on white laborers in West Virginia coal mining country (and elsewhere in that region I would assume).

West Virginia's 'forgotten tribe'; why the white working class feels left behind - CNNPolitics.com

The man notes in the video that machinery or automation is driving people out of their jobs in the coal industry, this is something I did not know. I am from Pittsburgh, my entire family worked in the steel mills there most of the 20th century as did my friends. But in the early 80's the steel mills all closed down due to cheaper foreign steel (as far as I know that is the reason). We've seen what has happened to Detroit and Flint as the car manufacturers have left those cities and taken those jobs with them.

I'd say none of these states, cities, or areas deserve to be degraded for the decline in standard of living. Without work what is there. I don't think anyone can watch any video like this, which can be directly echoed by people in Detroit, or Pittsburgh, or anywhere else manufacturing has left, and not only feel sympathy for these people but for a way of life. I do understand the sense of loss not only of lively-hood but of identity as part of the nation.

But it isn't something new. Manufacturing has been in decline for 40 years.


Note: Clean Debate Zone. Leave the candidates out, talk about why this is happening and what solutions there might be. Thanks.

The area that I live in, very heavy in mining and forestry, has finally, after generations of the boom/bust cycles, started to figure it out actually. It's called diversification. Any economy, regardless of scale, that is heavily dependent on one or two industries, will inevitably fail when said industries are no longer in sufficient demand. Therefore, for a strong, long lasting economy you MUST diversify, just as any moderately informed financial adviser would tell you when investing for retirement. Diversification is the key to sustained growth, generationally. Now, one can make a great living, and a region can build a strong economy, on one industry, as long as that industry stays in demand. But to sustain when that industry, inevitably, starts to decline, you must have diversity.

Take my area for example:
For over 150 years logging and mining have been the backbone of the economy here. Wood, wood products (such as paper), and the minerals currently being mined are declining in demand. This was once a BIG boom area, we even had light rail in the 1800's and early 1900's! Now, young people are growing up and fleeing to other areas to find steady work. They see their parents and grandparents being laid off periodically for indefinite periods and want something better for themselves. Some people have looked into this and found out why. Then they developed a plan to combat it and are in the beginning stages of implementing said plan. What is the plan? Diversifying the regional economy with emphasis on MEDIUM sized businesses looking to take the next step from a "family owned" business to more of a corporate model. Established businesses that have already stood the test of time and are looking to "take the next step" in their growth.

So, in summary to the OP question, what do we do about it? Diversify. Easy to figure out, hard to accomplish.

 

[Wyatt earp]

This is an interesting graph I never knew that the service industry always had more employees then industrial

 

[IsaacNewton]

A report from CNN on white laborers in West Virginia coal mining country (and elsewhere in that region I would assume).

West Virginia's 'forgotten tribe'; why the white working class feels left behind - CNNPolitics.com

The man notes in the video that machinery or automation is driving people out of their jobs in the coal industry, this is something I did not know. I am from Pittsburgh, my entire family worked in the steel mills there most of the 20th century as did my friends. But in the early 80's the steel mills all closed down due to cheaper foreign steel (as far as I know that is the reason). We've seen what has happened to Detroit and Flint as the car manufacturers have left those cities and taken those jobs with them.

I'd say none of these states, cities, or areas deserve to be degraded for the decline in standard of living. Without work what is there. I don't think anyone can watch any video like this, which can be directly echoed by people in Detroit, or Pittsburgh, or anywhere else manufacturing has left, and not only feel sympathy for these people but for a way of life. I do understand the sense of loss not only of lively-hood but of identity as part of the nation.

But it isn't something new. Manufacturing has been in decline for 40 years.


Note: Clean Debate Zone. Leave the candidates out, talk about why this is happening and what solutions there might be. Thanks.

The area that I live in, very heavy in mining and forestry, has finally, after generations of the boom/bust cycles, started to figure it out actually. It's called diversification. Any economy, regardless of scale, that is heavily dependent on one or two industries, will inevitably fail when said industries are no longer in sufficient demand. Therefore, for a strong, long lasting economy you MUST diversify, just as any moderately informed financial adviser would tell you when investing for retirement. Diversification is the key to sustained growth, generationally. Now, one can make a great living, and a region can build a strong economy, on one industry, as long as that industry stays in demand. But to sustain when that industry, inevitably, starts to decline, you must have diversity.

Take my area for example:
For over 150 years logging and mining have been the backbone of the economy here. Wood, wood products (such as paper), and the minerals currently being mined are declining in demand. This was once a BIG boom area, we even had light rail in the 1800's and early 1900's! Now, young people are growing up and fleeing to other areas to find steady work. They see their parents and grandparents being laid off periodically for indefinite periods and want something better for themselves. Some people have looked into this and found out why. Then they developed a plan to combat it and are in the beginning stages of implementing said plan. What is the plan? Diversifying the regional economy with emphasis on MEDIUM sized businesses looking to take the next step from a "family owned" business to more of a corporate model. Established businesses that have already stood the test of time and are looking to "take the next step" in their growth.

So, in summary to the OP question, what do we do about it? Diversify. Easy to figure out, hard to accomplish.

Yes this is the answer. It is mentioned by someone in the video as well. Pittsburgh, as I noted, was heavily into the steel industry and when it went away it was a tough time. But the city had other business entities as well, including banking. Pittsburgh recovered and is thriving. Detroit on the other hand relied almost entirely on the auto industry and they had nothing else to go to. Diversification is the answer. Miners should start training for other career fields. It isn't easy leaving a job that your grandfather and father had and an industry that is woven into the fabric of an area, but the reality demands it.

We are entering or have been in the era of the Jack-Of-All-Trades. People need to have more than one skill set and keep those skills up to date.

Also though, I was looking for comment on the impact on people. You watch this videos and it is heartbreaking to see these older people basically see their way of life fade away in front of them. Something IS being lost yes?

 

[Wyatt earp]

I live in the Pittsburgh area, about thirty five miles away. The problem with bringing steel jobs back is lack of infrastructure. After the mills closed, the equipment was created up and shipped to Asia and Latin America. Then the mills themselves were torn down.

As for manufacturing, we have a few commercial potteries here and we are developing refineries because of the Marcellus shale natural gas fields.

We are screwed when it comes to another world war...

Seriously dude.

 

[pinqy]

A report from CNN on white laborers in West Virginia coal mining country (and elsewhere in that region I would assume).

West Virginia's 'forgotten tribe'; why the white working class feels left behind - CNNPolitics.com

The man notes in the video that machinery or automation is driving people out of their jobs in the coal industry, this is something I did not know. I am from Pittsburgh, my entire family worked in the steel mills there most of the 20th century as did my friends. But in the early 80's the steel mills all closed down due to cheaper foreign steel (as far as I know that is the reason). We've seen what has happened to Detroit and Flint as the car manufacturers have left those cities and taken those jobs with them.

I'd say none of these states, cities, or areas deserve to be degraded for the decline in standard of living. Without work what is there. I don't think anyone can watch any video like this, which can be directly echoed by people in Detroit, or Pittsburgh, or anywhere else manufacturing has left, and not only feel sympathy for these people but for a way of life. I do understand the sense of loss not only of lively-hood but of identity as part of the nation.

But it isn't something new. Manufacturing has been in decline for 40 years.


Note: Clean Debate Zone. Leave the candidates out, talk about why this is happening and what solutions there might be. Thanks.

It actually looks to me like the decline in manufacturing has slowed. First let's look at all available data:

And now the last 10 years

Accounting for the differences in scale, it's clear that the decline in the last 10 years is nowhere near as fast as the decline in the 1970's and 80's

 

[Indeependent]

I live in the Pittsburgh area, about thirty five miles away. The problem with bringing steel jobs back is lack of infrastructure. After the mills closed, the equipment was created up and shipped to Asia and Latin America. Then the mills themselves were torn down.

As for manufacturing, we have a few commercial potteries here and we are developing refineries because of the Marcellus shale natural gas fields.

We are screwed when it comes to another world war...

Seriously dude.

I had seen it quite a while ago, but anything placed in a package in the US is considered "manufactured".
For instance, a McDonald's cashier placing an order of fries to go in a bag is considered to have added 1 to the number of US items manufactured.
So this graph, when delved into, leaves a lot to be wanting for the US.

 

[Wyatt earp]

I live in the Pittsburgh area, about thirty five miles away. The problem with bringing steel jobs back is lack of infrastructure. After the mills closed, the equipment was created up and shipped to Asia and Latin America. Then the mills themselves were torn down.

As for manufacturing, we have a few commercial potteries here and we are developing refineries because of the Marcellus shale natural gas fields.

We are screwed when it comes to another world war...

Seriously dude.

I had seen it quite a while ago, but anything placed in a package in the US is considered "manufactured".
For instance, a McDonald's cashier placing an order of fries to go in a bag is considered to have added 1 to the number of US items manufactured.
So this graph, when delved into, leaves a lot to be wanting for the US.

Yea I know, like T.V.s are supposed to be made in the U.S.A. but in reality the televisions are sent to South Carolina from China the back panel is removed a final part is put in and vola made in the U.S.A sold at walmart. But with that said we still manufacture a bunch of stuff.



.

 

[Wyatt earp]

A report from CNN on white laborers in West Virginia coal mining country (and elsewhere in that region I would assume).

West Virginia's 'forgotten tribe'; why the white working class feels left behind - CNNPolitics.com

The man notes in the video that machinery or automation is driving people out of their jobs in the coal industry, this is something I did not know. I am from Pittsburgh, my entire family worked in the steel mills there most of the 20th century as did my friends. But in the early 80's the steel mills all closed down due to cheaper foreign steel (as far as I know that is the reason). We've seen what has happened to Detroit and Flint as the car manufacturers have left those cities and taken those jobs with them.

I'd say none of these states, cities, or areas deserve to be degraded for the decline in standard of living. Without work what is there. I don't think anyone can watch any video like this, which can be directly echoed by people in Detroit, or Pittsburgh, or anywhere else manufacturing has left, and not only feel sympathy for these people but for a way of life. I do understand the sense of loss not only of lively-hood but of identity as part of the nation.

But it isn't something new. Manufacturing has been in decline for 40 years.


Note: Clean Debate Zone. Leave the candidates out, talk about why this is happening and what solutions there might be. Thanks.

The area that I live in, very heavy in mining and forestry, has finally, after generations of the boom/bust cycles, started to figure it out actually. It's called diversification. Any economy, regardless of scale, that is heavily dependent on one or two industries, will inevitably fail when said industries are no longer in sufficient demand. Therefore, for a strong, long lasting economy you MUST diversify, just as any moderately informed financial adviser would tell you when investing for retirement. Diversification is the key to sustained growth, generationally. Now, one can make a great living, and a region can build a strong economy, on one industry, as long as that industry stays in demand. But to sustain when that industry, inevitably, starts to decline, you must have diversity.

Take my area for example:
For over 150 years logging and mining have been the backbone of the economy here. Wood, wood products (such as paper), and the minerals currently being mined are declining in demand. This was once a BIG boom area, we even had light rail in the 1800's and early 1900's! Now, young people are growing up and fleeing to other areas to find steady work. They see their parents and grandparents being laid off periodically for indefinite periods and want something better for themselves. Some people have looked into this and found out why. Then they developed a plan to combat it and are in the beginning stages of implementing said plan. What is the plan? Diversifying the regional economy with emphasis on MEDIUM sized businesses looking to take the next step from a "family owned" business to more of a corporate model. Established businesses that have already stood the test of time and are looking to "take the next step" in their growth.

So, in summary to the OP question, what do we do about it? Diversify. Easy to figure out, hard to accomplish.

Yes this is the answer. It is mentioned by someone in the video as well. Pittsburgh, as I noted, was heavily into the steel industry and when it went away it was a tough time. But the city had other business entities as well, including banking. Pittsburgh recovered and is thriving. Detroit on the other hand relied almost entirely on the auto industry and they had nothing else to go to. Diversification is the answer. Miners should start training for other career fields. It isn't easy leaving a job that your grandfather and father had and an industry that is woven into the fabric of an area, but the reality demands it.

We are entering or have been in the era of the Jack-Of-All-Trades. People need to have more than one skill set and keep those skills up to date.

Also though, I was looking for comment on the impact on people. You watch this videos and it is heartbreaking to see these older people basically see their way of life fade away in front of them. Something IS being lost yes?

It was more then that, people knew in the 1980s robotics and automation was coming with a vengeance, they refused to acknowledge it and go back to skill to learn a new skill. They thought their job would last forever like their dad's and grandpas

 

[Onyx]

I can get jobs all day long, and I look white..What is you alls problem?

Economic opportunity is limitless, and it always was. If no one is hiring, then do something for yourself.

Just beware of the government and other assorted thugs.

 

[320 Years of History]

Initial Thoughts and Observations:

The man notes in the video that machinery or automation is driving people out of their jobs in the coal industry, this is something I did not know.

The economic replacement of labor with capital is not unique to any industry or group thereof. Office field and line workers all face the same challenge. I've seen it...Hell, I've been for some firms instrumental in transforming their operations from being labor intensive to being less labor intensive. Without exception, what happens over and over again is the same.

1. The firm implements technology which automates various aspects of the organization's operations.
2. Workers whose skill set merely mimics that of the implemented technology are obliged to either develop new skills or work elsewhere. The skill their employers demand are analytical and problem solving skills, not physical skill.

The trend is not new. It began in the late 1980s. It has not stopped nor will it. Each of us has a choice to make: (1) bitch about it, or (2) develop the skills that are in demand.

...coal mining....steel mills...

The steel mills all closed down due to cheaper foreign steel (as far as I know that is the reason).

While it's convenient to consider coal mining and manufacturing as being the same types on businesses/industries, they are not. Structurally, as businesses, a hugely significant difference is that the coal industry, for the most part, isn't subject to globalized competition, whereas steel manufacturing is. Ninety percent of the coal produced in a given place, usually a region or nation, is used in that place. Steel, in contrast, is exported as well as sold "locally."

Because of the very different competitive profiles of coal and steel, the dominant factors effecting contractions in those industries are different.

• Steel Industry --> global competition is a meaningful factor. Approximately 30% of the steel consumed in the U.S. is imported.
• Coal Industry --> global competition is not a meaningful factor. Approximately 10% of U.S.' coal mined is exported. Environmentalism and competition from/existence of other domestic energy sources are the primary factors that have led to dramatic reductions in coal mining.

The main driver to these very different profiles is that unlike steel, there is no value to add to coal. Coal is a final good that is either used as-is to produce energy or used as-is as an ingredient in the production of other goods. In contrast, raw steel can has almost no uses as a finished good. Instead, fabricators convert raw steel into usable steel products -- girders, automobile parts, etc.

I don't think anyone can watch any video like this, which can be directly echoed by people in Detroit, or Pittsburgh, or anywhere else manufacturing has left, and not only feel sympathy for these people but for a way of life. I do understand the sense of loss not only of livelihood but of identity as part of the nation.

Sympathy for the people and their sense of loss, yes. As for a "way of life" or a given "identity as a part of the nation," well, for that I have nostalgia, but not sympathy.

Manufacturing has been in decline for 40 years.

Let's be clear here. Manufacturing employment has decreased in the U.S. Manufacturing itself has not.

• Manufacturers have experienced tremendous growth over the past couple decades, making them more “lean” and helping them become more competitive globally. Output per hour for all workers in the manufacturing sector has increased by more than 2.5 times since 1987. In contrast, productivity is roughly 1.7 times greater for all nonfarm businesses. Note that durable goods manufacturers have seen even greater growth, almost tripling its labor productivity over that time frame.
  
• Over the next decade, nearly 3½ million manufacturing jobs will likely be needed, and 2 million are expected to go unfilled due to the skills gap.
  
• Over the past 25 years, U.S.-manufactured goods exports have quadrupled. In 1990, for example, U.S. manufacturers exported $329.5 billion in goods. By 2000, that number had more than doubled to $708.0 billion. In 2014, it reached an all-time high, for the fifth consecutive year, of $1.403 trillion, despite slowing global growth.
  
• World trade in manufactured goods has more than doubled between 2000 and 2014—from $4.8 trillion to $12.2 trillion.
  
• Taken alone, manufacturing in the United States would be the ninth-largest economy in the world. With $2.1 trillion in value added from manufacturing in 2014, only eight other nations (including the U.S.) would rank higher in terms of their gross domestic product.
  
• R&D in the manufacturing sector has risen from $126.2 billion in 2000 to $229.9 billion in 2014. In the most recent data, pharmaceuticals accounted for nearly one-third of all manufacturing R&D, spending $74.9 billion in 2014. Aerospace, chemicals, computers, electronics and motor vehicles and parts were also significant contributors to R&D spending in that year.

So when one wants to lament the "decline of manufacturing," one needs to be very clear about what has disappeared. It is the low-skill manufacturing jobs, not the manufacturers themselves and manufacturing as an industry, that have disappeared. That distinction is essential to understand and it's the a distinction that one will rarely, if ever, hear politicians articulate, let alone highlight.

The fact of the matter is that while the tariffs and protectionist actions that have been proposed of late may inspire some manufacturers to repatriate their facilities, they will do so and merely use capital rather than low-skill labor. Now that may (I do mean "may," not "will") yield a boost in tax revenues, it doesn't resolve the "loss of low-skill manufacturing jobs" problem. What will resolve that problem? Boosting the skill levels of workers so they can perform the more analytical types of jobs (the millions of them noted above) that are in demand.

So why haven't political leaders pushed harder to implement skill/knowledge building programs? Well, the reason is not simple, but it is simple to understand. The reason is that doing so creates a different kind of jobs problem and it also creates a political power problem. Here's what it is:

• The types of workers most needed are people with strong analytical skills and abilities, strong critical thinkers, folks who will routinely invest the time and effort "trust, but verify" and who know how to do so very adroitly and will do so using impartial information sources that provide full disclosure about their methods of and approach to information development.
• It's not easy, it's nigh impossible, to "pull the wool over the eyes" of those kinds of people. Accordingly, a lot of political rhetoric "goes out the door," or "in one ear and out the other." Emotional appeals such as those we routinely encounter today may carry some weight, but they don't sway the day, as it were. Instead, objectivity bolstered by valid and sound analysis wins arguments.

So what "jobs" problem does that create? It creates a jobs problem for every single politician, interest group, lobbyist, etc. that has depended on misinformation, slanted expositions of ideas and facts, in short manipulation, to advance their points of view and policy objectives. Folks whose jobs depend on those approaches to driving policy quite simply themselves will be put out of a job if/when the electorate becomes highly and legitimately analytical. And, no, I'm not saying that every pol is duplicitous that way; I'm saying that a lot of them -- from the federal level down to the community level -- are. So if the country were to create a more intellectually savvy populace overall, the power of those unscrupulous individuals, and that of the individuals and entities in whose "pockets" they sit, goes "bye bye." Those folks -- pols and their puppet masters -- simply are not going to deliberately make that sort of political transformation happen.

 

[Indeependent]

In the meanwhile, the "Blue Collar" workers couldn't even go into construction during the GW years because they weren't as qualified as the Mexicans who pop out of the womb with a house.
Yes, there are certainly industries, such as construction, that are still around and require no less human intervention as they did since 1510AD.
One of the answers to unemployed ex-manufacturing workers is that, supposedly,, investors will not invest if they have to invest more to get a final result.
I believe Moonglow answered that question last night...
When not given a choice investors WILL build.

 

[oldsoul]

A report from CNN on white laborers in West Virginia coal mining country (and elsewhere in that region I would assume).

West Virginia's 'forgotten tribe'; why the white working class feels left behind - CNNPolitics.com

The man notes in the video that machinery or automation is driving people out of their jobs in the coal industry, this is something I did not know. I am from Pittsburgh, my entire family worked in the steel mills there most of the 20th century as did my friends. But in the early 80's the steel mills all closed down due to cheaper foreign steel (as far as I know that is the reason). We've seen what has happened to Detroit and Flint as the car manufacturers have left those cities and taken those jobs with them.

I'd say none of these states, cities, or areas deserve to be degraded for the decline in standard of living. Without work what is there. I don't think anyone can watch any video like this, which can be directly echoed by people in Detroit, or Pittsburgh, or anywhere else manufacturing has left, and not only feel sympathy for these people but for a way of life. I do understand the sense of loss not only of lively-hood but of identity as part of the nation.

But it isn't something new. Manufacturing has been in decline for 40 years.


Note: Clean Debate Zone. Leave the candidates out, talk about why this is happening and what solutions there might be. Thanks.

The area that I live in, very heavy in mining and forestry, has finally, after generations of the boom/bust cycles, started to figure it out actually. It's called diversification. Any economy, regardless of scale, that is heavily dependent on one or two industries, will inevitably fail when said industries are no longer in sufficient demand. Therefore, for a strong, long lasting economy you MUST diversify, just as any moderately informed financial adviser would tell you when investing for retirement. Diversification is the key to sustained growth, generationally. Now, one can make a great living, and a region can build a strong economy, on one industry, as long as that industry stays in demand. But to sustain when that industry, inevitably, starts to decline, you must have diversity.

Take my area for example:
For over 150 years logging and mining have been the backbone of the economy here. Wood, wood products (such as paper), and the minerals currently being mined are declining in demand. This was once a BIG boom area, we even had light rail in the 1800's and early 1900's! Now, young people are growing up and fleeing to other areas to find steady work. They see their parents and grandparents being laid off periodically for indefinite periods and want something better for themselves. Some people have looked into this and found out why. Then they developed a plan to combat it and are in the beginning stages of implementing said plan. What is the plan? Diversifying the regional economy with emphasis on MEDIUM sized businesses looking to take the next step from a "family owned" business to more of a corporate model. Established businesses that have already stood the test of time and are looking to "take the next step" in their growth.

So, in summary to the OP question, what do we do about it? Diversify. Easy to figure out, hard to accomplish.

Yes this is the answer. It is mentioned by someone in the video as well. Pittsburgh, as I noted, was heavily into the steel industry and when it went away it was a tough time. But the city had other business entities as well, including banking. Pittsburgh recovered and is thriving. Detroit on the other hand relied almost entirely on the auto industry and they had nothing else to go to. Diversification is the answer. Miners should start training for other career fields. It isn't easy leaving a job that your grandfather and father had and an industry that is woven into the fabric of an area, but the reality demands it.

We are entering or have been in the era of the Jack-Of-All-Trades. People need to have more than one skill set and keep those skills up to date.

Also though, I was looking for comment on the impact on people. You watch this videos and it is heartbreaking to see these older people basically see their way of life fade away in front of them. Something IS being lost yes?

Yes, something is being lost. It would seem as though it is simplicity in the economy, at least in my area. I find it quite difficult to define beyond that. Mining/forestry was a way of life for generations around here, and many of the "old timers" (not necessarily old people) seem to be pretty upset about that, but is that really any different from past eras? It would seem that many of the older generations simply look back on the era(s) they grew up in and see a simpler time and long to go back to it. I am guilty of this myself. Sometimes I look back on history and see a much rosier picture that what was the reality of it. I doubt this is unique to modern times. Don't get me wrong, there where things about the past that where better: strong family ties, more of a "village" feel about our communities (one pretty much knew everyone they came into contact with), etc. However, is it worth sacrificing these things for modern advancements? Yes, imagine where we would be if all the technology of the last two decades where taken away. No more cell phones or internet, Medicine would be far less advanced, there would be far more gender specific careers (no female mechanics, and no male nurses for example), just to name a few. Would that counteract the benefits?

 

[320 Years of History]

Yes, there are certainly industries, such as construction, that are still around and require no less human intervention as they did since 1510 AD.

Well, there are still such industries, but they aren't the one's that come into play for constructing very much of anything other than the artistic features of some building interiors and exteriors. That's not to say that Renaissance era methods aren't still used to perform material aspects of construction project work, but rather than one won't generally see much of them in the U.S. If one travels to places like China, Indonesia, a host of African countries and a smattering of less well developed nations, and perhaps even Mexico and some South American countries, one will see those basic and laborious construction methods in wide use even today.

What makes the difference? The availability of and wage rate of human labor. For example, in Shenzhen, PRC, I went from my hotel in the heart of the city to my client's "town,"** which is about 15 miles outside the city and its 'burbs. On the route there, there used to be a small mountain (~6K feet) around which the highway wound for about three miles to get to other side of the mountain. Over the course of a year, I watched that mountain disappear and new roads get built where it used to be. How did some of that work happen? Some of it used the same machinery we'd use in the U.S., but some of it was taken down by men with nothing but sledgehammers, woven baskets and wheelbarrows to break and transport the stone.

The next photo is modern stock imagery of workers in Myanmar loading gravel onto a freighter.

Why do China and other highly populous nations do it that way? In China's case, because they have 1.7B people they need to put to work; thus they use a combination of machinery and human labor to perform the a given task because the work gets done faster overall by doing it that way, even though the humans do the work slower than can the machines. Sometimes, human labor is in fact the best way to do it, especially when it's something that needs doing, but that doesn't need to have been finished "yesterday."

The temporal aspect is no small thing. In Western cultures, "everything" is about "getting it done" quickly; everything amounts to being a race against time. "Time's a wastin'" as we say. In China, and many other parts of the world, some things are that way, others are not. That's just a cultural difference. One can even go to some Western European countries and observe a very different value placed on time. It manifests itself most obviously in restaurants, particularly nice neighborhood places, where the owners don't expect to rotate the table three or four times a night. Indeed, they're nearly insulted if one comes in, sits, eats and leaves in 45 minutes to an hour. A similar concept is what drives siesta in Spanish speaking countries.



It's worth noting, in the interest of full disclosure, that recently there have been moves to dispense with siesta.


Getting back on point, yes, there are construction activities that are neither more nor less labor intensive than they were in the Renaissance. But as for construction in the larger sense happening using the same processes and approaches that it did in the Renaissance, that's just not the case. Short of pulleys, simple wheeled "machines" powered by animals or humans and levers, I'm not even aware of there actually having been mechanical machines in existence in the Renaissance construction industry, much less being widely used to perform the construction work itself.



**Note:
It literally is a town and the only thing there are the client's offices, the residences the client's employees live in -- the range from high end to modest dormitory level residences -- commercial buildings in which small, privately owned shops are the tenants (restaurants, cleaners, grocers, department stores, an amusement park, bars and nightclubs, sports/athletic facilities, convenience stores, mechanics, etc.), the gas stations that provide fuel, etc...all that stuff is there and the only way one lives there is to be on the client's payroll. Note that client employees don't have to live there, although because it's super convenient do live there, many do.

 

[IsaacNewton]

If it is inevitable that many industries go away, do the people employed therein not see an urgent need to train to do something else? Or move somewhere where the are jobs. Coal is on the decline around the world, including China who is investing in and building twice as much wind power production as anyone else. I would think that back when oil started replacing whale oil that the exact same hue and cry was heard, "they're taking our jobs and our way of life". Which is true and always will be true but if you were a whaler at the time you'd start thinking about going into carpentry or something else. A hard transition for some yes but you can curse reality, you can't ignore it.

Labor has to become flexible during times of transition, and rather than blame it on a politician or politics, or whatever, the cause is usually either new technology or someone doing the same thing a lot cheaper somewhere else. And it doesn't have to be all bad. Growing up in Pittsburgh I remember the sky was usually orange because of the smoke and soot from the steel mills and the city was not clean. Now the sky is blue, as a sky should be, and the health and environment are in much better shape. And the city is thriving.

Places like Detroit, Flint, and West Virginia need to move on to something new.

 

[Wyatt earp]

If it is inevitable that many industries go away, do the people employed therein not see an urgent need to train to do something else? Or move somewhere where the are jobs. Coal is on the decline around the world, including China who is investing in and building twice as much wind power production as anyone else. I would think that back when oil started replacing whale oil that the exact same hue and cry was heard, "they're taking our jobs and our way of life". Which is true and always will be true but if you were a whaler at the time you'd start thinking about going into carpentry or something else. A hard transition for some yes but you can curse reality, you can't ignore it.

Labor has to become flexible during times of transition, and rather than blame it on a politician or politics, or whatever, the cause is usually either new technology or someone doing the same thing a lot cheaper somewhere else. And it doesn't have to be all bad. Growing up in Pittsburgh I remember the sky was usually orange because of the smoke and soot from the steel mills and the city was not clean. Now the sky is blue, as a sky should be, and the health and environment are in much better shape. And the city is thriving.

Places like Detroit, Flint, and West Virginia need to move on to something new.

Like you said in your op I will leave politics out of it, but people really have to be aware of the world around them and adapt all of our criticism of say Detroit. There really have been some bright spots and good news on how that city is trying to make a come back.

I read a few articles in the past 8 years of Detroit business coming up with new promising ideas

 

[waltky]

Recovery sputtering...

94,184,000 Not In Labor Force; Labor Force Participation Rises; Unemployment Rate Ticks up to 5.0%
October 7, 2016 | The Labor Department's Bureau of Labor Statistics shows an improving/mixed employment situation in September, in the numbers released Friday.

94,184,000 Americans were not in the labor force in September, 207,000 fewer than in August, and the nation's labor force participation rate, which began its steady downward trend in 2000, showed little change last month, rising a tenth of a point to 62.9 percent compared with August. At a recent news conference, Federal Reserve Chair Janet Yellen said the labor force participation rate has increased on balance since late last year, which "shows a substantial number of people are being attracted into the labor market." Yellen told Congress on Sept. 28 that the Federal Reserve expects labor market conditions to continue strengthening, making an interest hike likely soon, probably in December.

In an August 2016 update to the nation's budget and economic outlook, the Congressional Budget Office said the "prevailing decline" in the labor force participation rate "reflects underlying demographic trends and, to a smaller degree, federal policies." The CBO said factors contributing to the decline in labor force participation include the continued retirement of baby boomers, reduced participation by less-skilled workers, and the lingering effects of the recession and weak recovery. "In addition," the report said, "certain aspects of federal laws, including provisions of the Affordable Care Act and the structure of the tax code, will reduce participation in the labor force by reducing people’s incentive to work or seek work."

The labor force participation rate is the percentage of people in the civilian noninstitutionalized population, age 16 or older, who are either working or actively seeking work. People who are no longer looking for work, for whatever reason -- retirement, school, family, or they've just given up -- are not participating in the labor force. In Friday’s report, BLS said the economy added 156,000 jobs in September, below analysts' expectations of about 175,000.

So far this year, job growth has averaged 178,000 per month, compared with an average of 229,000 per month in 2015. In September, employment gains occurred in professional and business services and in health care. The September unemployment rate increased a tenth of a point to 5.0 percent, as the number of unemployed persons increased 90,000 to 7,939,000 -- and the number of employed persons increased 354,000 to 151,968,000.

MORE