Liberal Love affair with Unions

[Ravi]

But people who wish to exercise their freedom to work for a 'unionized company' without joining the union, are shit on more than a person into scat... and lord knows the pressure unions try and put on persons to join (and now without secret ballots, and the DEM support of that in union decisions/votes) it gets even more scary

I have worked in a telecommunications company that had both a union and non-union presence.. of course, I worked on the non-union side... and the company can operate in both spheres... but many of the big unions, such as the UAW, snub upon any non-union presence..

Not sure how that changes the point I made.

Do you believe unions should be outlawed?

 

[Ravi]

My experience with unions is that the people who do the best work and actually merit pay increases don't get them because the union props up the worst workers at the expense of the best.

My short stint in a union job proved this to me.

I would rather work through lunch in most cases so I can leave an hour earlier. there was no reason for me to be forced to take an hour unpaid lunch as i was an hourly grunt labor employee. I asked the shop foreman if I could do just that and he said he would write me up for disciplinary reasons because I wanted to work through lunch. I tried to explain that i took night classes and that working through lunch allowed me to go home and shower before class and i could easily scarf down a sandwich on a paid 15 minute break. But typical of union strong arm tactics, i was forced to sit on my ass for an hour every day because the union said so.

I'm having a hard time believing this story. The employer would have the option of giving you your lunch break at the end of the day, not the union.

What was the reason given for denying you?

 

[DiamondDave]

Not sure how that changes the point I made.

Do you believe unions should be outlawed?

No... I just think that their usefulness is long gone.. and forcing workers to be union, when they do not want to be, is flat out wrong... if people wish to use the union's "power" or "influence", fine.. if they wish to negotiate their own terms or contract, they should have that option as well... freedom, it's a good thing

And when people realize that their skills and experience are in demand, they realize they themselves have the power... that the unions are not a necessity

 

[SwingVoter]

disgusting bunch of thugs, more reason to oppose the UAW bailout

 

[Red Dawn]

My experience with unions is that the people who do the best work and actually merit pay increases don't get them because the union props up the worst workers at the expense of the best.

My short stint in a union job proved this to me.

I would rather work through lunch in most cases so I can leave an hour earlier. there was no reason for me to be forced to take an hour unpaid lunch as i was an hourly grunt labor employee. I asked the shop foreman if I could do just that and he said he would write me up for disciplinary reasons because I wanted to work through lunch. I tried to explain that i took night classes and that working through lunch allowed me to go home and shower before class and i could easily scarf down a sandwich on a paid 15 minute break. But typical of union strong arm tactics, i was forced to sit on my ass for an hour every day because the union said so.

Sounds like a made up story.

I've worked for plenty of non-union companies, that wouldn't have allowed me to leave an hour early because I wanted "to work through lunch". Every company has different rules, union or not.

Are there lazy and corrupt union workers and officials? Yep, just like society at large has lazy people. That said, Some of the world's most sought after, high quality products are 100% made by union employees. Ever own a Mercedes Benz, a Corvette, or a BMW?

Are unions to blame for promoting laziness, corruption, and incompetence? Surely, you jest. We are in the throes of a major economic meltdown, primarily enable by rich, corrupt white men who don't belong to unions. The work on Wall Street, at the Federal Reserve, and in corporate america.

 

[Ravi]

No... I just think that their usefulness is long gone.. and forcing workers to be union, when they do not want to be, is flat out wrong... if people wish to use the union's "power" or "influence", fine.. if they wish to negotiate their own terms or contract, they should have that option as well... freedom, it's a good thing

And when people realize that their skills and experience are in demand, they realize they themselves have the power... that the unions are not a necessity

I don't know that I agree with you. Unions at the least keep people earning a living wage and I don't see how that is a bad thing.

What I find kind of amusing is that the Big Three aren't blaming their woes on the unions...only the Republicans are. As far as I can tell there is no love lost between the Big Three and the UAW so if the unions were the problem I imagine they'd be crying about them.

 

[DiamondDave]

I'm having a hard time believing this story. The employer would have the option of giving you your lunch break at the end of the day, not the union.

What was the reason given for denying you?

I have had this type of experience too... the forced, unpaid, hour break.. and not allowing the person to use that "break" to come in an hour later or leave an hour early...

My current employer tries it with many of it's technicians and engineers... even though the majority eat at their desks while doing work, because of the workload... in essence, the current upper management is trying to get an extra hour out of the coverage... it's one of the many reasons I am looking to get out of this company... leadership that has no clue how to lead and motivate employees

 

[Ravi]

I have had this type of experience too... the forced, unpaid, hour break.. and not allowing the person to use that "break" to come in an hour later or leave an hour early...

My current employer tries it with many of it's technicians and engineers... even though the majority eat at their desks while doing work, because of the workload... in essence, the current upper management is trying to get an extra hour out of the coverage... it's one of the many reasons I am looking to get out of this company... leadership that has no clue how to lead and motivate employees

lol, if you were unionized you'd get your lunch break.



I once belonged to a union and the work schedule was set by the employer, not the union. I also think lunch break laws tend to be state laws.

 

[SwingVoter]

Whenever I see these sort of posts I wonder if the corporate conservative tool is not a poorly programmed bot, robot that is.

yeah, we all know how General Electric, IBM, Microsoft, Google etc all physically intimidate people who won't buy their products

agree with them or not, these unions are Blagojevichian crooks,

 

[DiamondDave]

lol, if you were unionized you'd get your lunch break.



I once belonged to a union and the work schedule was set by the employer, not the union. I also think lunch break laws tend to be state laws.

No.. it's a company thing... other similar companies in this area include the lunch break within the 8 or 10 hour work schedule... to make employees happier

Many breaks are required by law... mainly the laws state that employees are entitled to a break... just some companies choose to make it unpaid instead of paid

 

[Skull Pilot]

I'm having a hard time believing this story. The employer would have the option of giving you your lunch break at the end of the day, not the union.

What was the reason given for denying you?

This was a job of the worst kind.

had to be at work at 6 AM, i didn't mind that. The bell would sound at 8:45 and we all had to stop for 15 minutes.

the bell would ring again at 9 and we all had to start working again

There were NO exceptions to the bell.

This place sucked.

And the union negotiated the break policy so the employer had no choice as the shop foremen who were all union stewards ran the floor.

 

[Ravi]

No.. it's a company thing... other similar companies in this area include the lunch break within the 8 or 10 hour work schedule... to make employees happier

Many breaks are required by law... mainly the laws state that employees are entitled to a break... just some companies choose to make it unpaid instead of paid

Okay, that's correct at least in your state and mine...and maybe all of them.

 

[Ravi]

This was a job of the worst kind.

had to be at work at 6 AM, i didn't mind that. The bell would sound at 8:45 and we all had to stop for 15 minutes.

the bell would ring again at 9 and we all had to start working again

There were NO exceptions to the bell.

This place sucked.

And the union negotiated the break policy so the employer had no choice as the shop foremen who were all union stewards ran the floor.

Okay, I'll buy that. Still, it sucked to you but probably not to everyone else, otherwise the members could have gotten together and changed it.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Sounds like a made up story.

I've worked for plenty of non-union companies, that wouldn't have allowed me to leave an hour early because I wanted "to work through lunch". Every company has different rules, union or not.

This was a union shop not a non union shop. and I was never told by a non union job that I could not work through lunch and leave early unless that job had mandated staff minimums like a group home or the like. but I've had jobs as a backroom retail monkey and a shipping clerk ay nonunion shops and never had a problem with working through breaks and leaving early.

this was a loading dock job so it did not matter in the least if i worked through lunch and left early. but the union negotiated the break schedule and I was not allowed deviate from it.

Are there lazy and corrupt union workers and officials? Yep, just like society at large has lazy people. That said, Some of the world's most sought after, high quality products are 100% made by union employees. Ever own a Mercedes Benz, a Corvette, or a BMW?

I wouldn't buy any of those cars. cars are a waste of money and I will only buy those that are necessary.

Are unions to blame for promoting laziness, corruption, and incompetence? Surely, you jest. We are in the throes of a major economic meltdown, primarily enable by rich, corrupt white men who don't belong to unions. The work on Wall Street, at the Federal Reserve, and in corporate america.

Didn't say that. I said union policies tend to prop up the worst employees by holding back the best employees. If companies have to keep the worst employees on the books, there is less money to give merit raises to the best workers.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Okay, I'll buy that. Still, it sucked to you but probably not to everyone else, otherwise the members could have gotten together and changed it.

i was forced to assimilate. because the union decided that i did not know what was best for me.

that is the nature of such institutions. I barely lasted the summer on that job. But i needed the dough for tuition

Which is probably the reason I decided to work for myself. I hate being told what to do. And when the reason I am being told what to do is "It's our policy and that's the only reason you need" just fucking rankles.

 

[Ravi]

i was forced to assimilate. because the union decided that i did not know what was best for me.

that is the nature of such institutions. I barely lasted the summer on that job. But i needed the dough for tuition

Which is probably the reason I decided to work for myself. I hate being told what to do. And when the reason I am being told what to do is "It's our policy and that's the only reason you need" just fucking rankles.

You should send them a donation check for teaching you a valuable lesson.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You should send them a donation check for teaching you a valuable lesson.

nah. i'll just keep trying to get rid of them so some other poor slob won't be forced to assimilate.

 

[Skull Pilot]

But aside from anecdotes, Unions do not foster job growth anywhere.

http://www.nilrr.org/files/Job-Growth%20Advantage%20--%201997-2007%20%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf

Year after year, U.S. Labor Department data have shown that states with Right to Work laws on the books have far faster private-sector job growth than states that do not protect employees from federal policies authorizing the termination of workers for refusal to pay dues or fees to an unwanted union.

Between 1997 and 2007, private-sector jobs in Right to Work states increased by a net 17.7%. That’s more than double the relatively small increase in private-sector jobs experienced by non-Right to Work states over this period. (See the tables on pages three and four for details.
Oklahoma, which adopted its Right to Work law in 2001, is excluded from this calculation.

However, between 2003, when the Sooner Supreme Court rejected two Big Labor lawsuits designed to overturn the Right to Work law, and 2007, Oklahoma job growth was 7.1%, well over half again as fast as in non-Right to Work states.)

The Right to Work job-growth advantage has historically been wider in times when the national economy is in or recovering from a recession. However, since the last nationwide recession ended in 2001, the Right to Work advantage has remained extraordinarily wide.

Over the five years from 2002 to 2007, private-sector jobs in Right to Work states increased from 40.92 million to 44.85 million, or 9.6%. (Since Oklahoma was a Right to Work state for the entire period, this time it is included.) Meanwhile, jobs in forced-dues states increased by barely more than a third as much. Over this entire period, forced-dues states’ private-sector employment went from 67.27 million to 69.72 million, a gain of just 3.6%.

Seem unions aren't so good at providing job growth.

 

[editec]

Ah yes the boogieman of the ass kissing class of apologists for every excess of the monied class...unions.

How they terrrify some people.

Imagine the audacity of working people coming together to demand decent salaries, and safe working conditions.

No wonder Hitler started out killing union leaders first.

They stand in opposition to everything he stood for, too.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Yes Ed
I am a reincarnation of Hitler.

I believe that a person shouldn't be forced to join a union in order to get a job and I am Hitler

so tell me Ed who are the union people who intimidate and threaten those who cross picket lines?

Who are those union people who want lists of contributors to organizations that don't support forced union membership?

who are those union members who committed identity theft to harass an employee that dared voice an opinion that a union was not needed at her workplace.

Who are those people?

and believe me, unions don't terrify me unless their thugs are coming at me with axe handles.

I simply do not believe that anyone should be forced to join a union and unwillingly have dues confiscated from their paychecks.