Millions of Unemployed Americans, But DHS Speeds up H1-B Visa Applications

[Correll]

There are two or three problems in this argument.

Millions of unemployed, doesn't mean that any of those millions are qualified in the position you need.

For example... If I am looking for a high end microprocessor designer, how many people of the unemployed are qualified high skill microprocessor engineers?

Answer... precious few.

From the numbers that we know of, there are significantly more high skill engineer positions open, than there are high skill engineers looking for employment.

So saying that there are millions of employed, so why are they importing high skill people.... is a bit like you asking for an electrician, and someone saying "Well there are a dozen unemployed oil change techs here. Why are you looking elsewhere?"

It does not matter if there are hundred million unemployed, if you need an engineer, and none of them are engineers.

So there are fewer skilled people, than skilled job openings, but also there are shortages in specific areas. Like if you need a Quantum physicist, and there are none, it doesn't matter if there are millions of skilled people unemployed, if none of them have the skill you need.

However, I personally have witnessed that we have a problem with how we're raising our young people. I see this in 3 key areas:

1. People seem to have this idea that they shouldn't have to move find work. Moving across the country, is part of the deal. High end jobs are simply not everywhere. People who sit around in their home town, unable to find work, and a company in Arizona is hiring an immigrant who by their nature, move to where the work is.

I've told the story of my immigrant roommate, and he moved 3 times AFTER he moved to the US. Why? Because where the work was, is where he went. That's how that works.

2. People with engineering degrees, seem to come out of college with this idea that they should walking into an entry level engineering job, with a six-figure income.

This is ridiculous. You are still an entry level engineer, and the company has no idea if you can even tie your shoes.

Which leads to the third problem....

3. A shockingly high percentage of people getting degrees suck.

Sorry to be blunt, and bold with this, but it's a fact. Maybe 50 years ago, no one got a degree unless they were fantastic. Today, people get degrees, and can't figure out how shoe laces work.

Now I want to be clear, that not ALL of them suck... just that an amazing number come out, and are utterly useless. How they got their degree is beyond me, but they certainly didn't earn it. They can't seem to do anything. Half don't show up on time. Others goof off half the day.

There should never be a time where I have to act like a human security camera, to make sure they are doing their job.

They suck. It's that simple.

And this shouldn't be super controversial. We already know people were buying their way into Ivy League schools. If your kid is stupid, and you buy their way into MIT, and they are able to get a degree after you bought their way in..... then obviously the schools are not teaching that much.

So to recap...

Not only do we have far fewer people with STEM degrees, than their are STEM jobs.... and even there we have a shortage of people qualified for specific fields (meaning we might have a thousand mechanical engineers when we need electrical engineers).... but many of them don't want to move to where the work is, and many expect to get paid more than their first job is going to offer, and I would almost guarantee that some of those are unemployed because they are terrible.

Thus... we need more qualified people, and the best way to get them is from other countries.... where people work hard, don't have unreasonable expectations, and are willing to go to where the work is.

I have worked with these "Highly Skilled" Indians, even as an Analyst.
They suck.
They don't speak speak English and don't know the programming language(s) they are supposed to know.
They don't even know how to link 2 or more Tables in a SQL statement.
This is a joke.

Then you should blame the person who hired this Indians. If he doesn’t speak English and don’t know programming. How did he/she even passed the first interview? Don’t they even question his education or qualifications?
.

Plenty of blame to go around. Yes, the person doing the hiring.

BUt there is no reason why Americans should support policies that serve the interests of Indians at the expense of Americans.

 

[Indeependent]

There are two or three problems in this argument.

Millions of unemployed, doesn't mean that any of those millions are qualified in the position you need.

For example... If I am looking for a high end microprocessor designer, how many people of the unemployed are qualified high skill microprocessor engineers?

Answer... precious few.

From the numbers that we know of, there are significantly more high skill engineer positions open, than there are high skill engineers looking for employment.

So saying that there are millions of employed, so why are they importing high skill people.... is a bit like you asking for an electrician, and someone saying "Well there are a dozen unemployed oil change techs here. Why are you looking elsewhere?"

It does not matter if there are hundred million unemployed, if you need an engineer, and none of them are engineers.

So there are fewer skilled people, than skilled job openings, but also there are shortages in specific areas. Like if you need a Quantum physicist, and there are none, it doesn't matter if there are millions of skilled people unemployed, if none of them have the skill you need.

However, I personally have witnessed that we have a problem with how we're raising our young people. I see this in 3 key areas:

1. People seem to have this idea that they shouldn't have to move find work. Moving across the country, is part of the deal. High end jobs are simply not everywhere. People who sit around in their home town, unable to find work, and a company in Arizona is hiring an immigrant who by their nature, move to where the work is.

I've told the story of my immigrant roommate, and he moved 3 times AFTER he moved to the US. Why? Because where the work was, is where he went. That's how that works.

2. People with engineering degrees, seem to come out of college with this idea that they should walking into an entry level engineering job, with a six-figure income.

This is ridiculous. You are still an entry level engineer, and the company has no idea if you can even tie your shoes.

Which leads to the third problem....

3. A shockingly high percentage of people getting degrees suck.

Sorry to be blunt, and bold with this, but it's a fact. Maybe 50 years ago, no one got a degree unless they were fantastic. Today, people get degrees, and can't figure out how shoe laces work.

Now I want to be clear, that not ALL of them suck... just that an amazing number come out, and are utterly useless. How they got their degree is beyond me, but they certainly didn't earn it. They can't seem to do anything. Half don't show up on time. Others goof off half the day.

There should never be a time where I have to act like a human security camera, to make sure they are doing their job.

They suck. It's that simple.

And this shouldn't be super controversial. We already know people were buying their way into Ivy League schools. If your kid is stupid, and you buy their way into MIT, and they are able to get a degree after you bought their way in..... then obviously the schools are not teaching that much.

So to recap...

Not only do we have far fewer people with STEM degrees, than their are STEM jobs.... and even there we have a shortage of people qualified for specific fields (meaning we might have a thousand mechanical engineers when we need electrical engineers).... but many of them don't want to move to where the work is, and many expect to get paid more than their first job is going to offer, and I would almost guarantee that some of those are unemployed because they are terrible.

Thus... we need more qualified people, and the best way to get them is from other countries.... where people work hard, don't have unreasonable expectations, and are willing to go to where the work is.

I have worked with these "Highly Skilled" Indians, even as an Analyst.
They suck.
They don't speak speak English and don't know the programming language(s) they are supposed to know.
They don't even know how to link 2 or more Tables in a SQL statement.
This is a joke.

Then you should blame the person who hired this Indians. If he doesn’t speak English and don’t know programming. How did he/she even passed the first interview? Don’t they even question his education or qualifications?
.

Are you high?
All that matters in IT is keep the company going.
It’s not medicine or accounting where credentials are necessary.

 

[Indeependent]

It's always best to have a good mathematician or scientist sit with an organized coder.
This way the code is easy to read and does the job in the least amount of code needed.

That is why I took a minor in mathematics, to see shortcuts in code design.

It also really helped when A friend of mine and I made our currency trading software. We were trading off the retrace from when a currency pair crossed the 2.1 Bollinger band three 5 minute bars in a row, and set the sell order = to the previous 5 minute bar 20 bar average. It was working pretty well till the shop were were trading through started fucking with our orders. All currency trading shops are bucket shops we discovered, but we doubled our money in four months.

My son was doing that.

 

[Andylusion]

There are two or three problems in this argument.

Millions of unemployed, doesn't mean that any of those millions are qualified in the position you need.

For example... If I am looking for a high end microprocessor designer, how many people of the unemployed are qualified high skill microprocessor engineers?

Answer... precious few.

From the numbers that we know of, there are significantly more high skill engineer positions open, than there are high skill engineers looking for employment.

So saying that there are millions of employed, so why are they importing high skill people.... is a bit like you asking for an electrician, and someone saying "Well there are a dozen unemployed oil change techs here. Why are you looking elsewhere?"

It does not matter if there are hundred million unemployed, if you need an engineer, and none of them are engineers.

So there are fewer skilled people, than skilled job openings, but also there are shortages in specific areas. Like if you need a Quantum physicist, and there are none, it doesn't matter if there are millions of skilled people unemployed, if none of them have the skill you need.

However, I personally have witnessed that we have a problem with how we're raising our young people. I see this in 3 key areas:

1. People seem to have this idea that they shouldn't have to move find work. Moving across the country, is part of the deal. High end jobs are simply not everywhere. People who sit around in their home town, unable to find work, and a company in Arizona is hiring an immigrant who by their nature, move to where the work is.

I've told the story of my immigrant roommate, and he moved 3 times AFTER he moved to the US. Why? Because where the work was, is where he went. That's how that works.

2. People with engineering degrees, seem to come out of college with this idea that they should walking into an entry level engineering job, with a six-figure income.

This is ridiculous. You are still an entry level engineer, and the company has no idea if you can even tie your shoes.

Which leads to the third problem....

3. A shockingly high percentage of people getting degrees suck.

Sorry to be blunt, and bold with this, but it's a fact. Maybe 50 years ago, no one got a degree unless they were fantastic. Today, people get degrees, and can't figure out how shoe laces work.

Now I want to be clear, that not ALL of them suck... just that an amazing number come out, and are utterly useless. How they got their degree is beyond me, but they certainly didn't earn it. They can't seem to do anything. Half don't show up on time. Others goof off half the day.

There should never be a time where I have to act like a human security camera, to make sure they are doing their job.

They suck. It's that simple.

And this shouldn't be super controversial. We already know people were buying their way into Ivy League schools. If your kid is stupid, and you buy their way into MIT, and they are able to get a degree after you bought their way in..... then obviously the schools are not teaching that much.

So to recap...

Not only do we have far fewer people with STEM degrees, than their are STEM jobs.... and even there we have a shortage of people qualified for specific fields (meaning we might have a thousand mechanical engineers when we need electrical engineers).... but many of them don't want to move to where the work is, and many expect to get paid more than their first job is going to offer, and I would almost guarantee that some of those are unemployed because they are terrible.

Thus... we need more qualified people, and the best way to get them is from other countries.... where people work hard, don't have unreasonable expectations, and are willing to go to where the work is.

I have worked with these "Highly Skilled" Indians, even as an Analyst.
They suck.
They don't speak speak English and don't know the programming language(s) they are supposed to know.
They don't even know how to link 2 or more Tables in a SQL statement.
This is a joke.

Then you should blame the person who hired this Indians. If he doesn’t speak English and don’t know programming. How did he/she even passed the first interview? Don’t they even question his education or qualifications?
.

Are you high?
All that matters in IT is keep the company going.
It’s not medicine or accounting where credentials are necessary.

Well that's kind of OUR point. You claimed:

"They don't speak speak English and don't know the programming language(s) they are supposed to know.
They don't even know how to link 2 or more Tables in a SQL statement"

You said that, correct?

If you hire programmers, even at a low wage of $60K.... a programmer that can't program is worth zero... and produces zero.

A company that hired people like you describe, would cease to exist. If what you said is true, then what we're saying is.... "all that matters is keep the company going".... right... how would a programmer with zero ability like you suggest, keep anything going?

So something in your statement must be false. Either they are in fact capable of doing the job, or thousands of companies across the country are on the verge of closing because they spending millions on people who can't do the job.

 

[charwin95]

There are two or three problems in this argument.

Millions of unemployed, doesn't mean that any of those millions are qualified in the position you need.

For example... If I am looking for a high end microprocessor designer, how many people of the unemployed are qualified high skill microprocessor engineers?

Answer... precious few.

From the numbers that we know of, there are significantly more high skill engineer positions open, than there are high skill engineers looking for employment.

So saying that there are millions of employed, so why are they importing high skill people.... is a bit like you asking for an electrician, and someone saying "Well there are a dozen unemployed oil change techs here. Why are you looking elsewhere?"

It does not matter if there are hundred million unemployed, if you need an engineer, and none of them are engineers.

So there are fewer skilled people, than skilled job openings, but also there are shortages in specific areas. Like if you need a Quantum physicist, and there are none, it doesn't matter if there are millions of skilled people unemployed, if none of them have the skill you need.

However, I personally have witnessed that we have a problem with how we're raising our young people. I see this in 3 key areas:

1. People seem to have this idea that they shouldn't have to move find work. Moving across the country, is part of the deal. High end jobs are simply not everywhere. People who sit around in their home town, unable to find work, and a company in Arizona is hiring an immigrant who by their nature, move to where the work is.

I've told the story of my immigrant roommate, and he moved 3 times AFTER he moved to the US. Why? Because where the work was, is where he went. That's how that works.

2. People with engineering degrees, seem to come out of college with this idea that they should walking into an entry level engineering job, with a six-figure income.

This is ridiculous. You are still an entry level engineer, and the company has no idea if you can even tie your shoes.

Which leads to the third problem....

3. A shockingly high percentage of people getting degrees suck.

Sorry to be blunt, and bold with this, but it's a fact. Maybe 50 years ago, no one got a degree unless they were fantastic. Today, people get degrees, and can't figure out how shoe laces work.

Now I want to be clear, that not ALL of them suck... just that an amazing number come out, and are utterly useless. How they got their degree is beyond me, but they certainly didn't earn it. They can't seem to do anything. Half don't show up on time. Others goof off half the day.

There should never be a time where I have to act like a human security camera, to make sure they are doing their job.

They suck. It's that simple.

And this shouldn't be super controversial. We already know people were buying their way into Ivy League schools. If your kid is stupid, and you buy their way into MIT, and they are able to get a degree after you bought their way in..... then obviously the schools are not teaching that much.

So to recap...

Not only do we have far fewer people with STEM degrees, than their are STEM jobs.... and even there we have a shortage of people qualified for specific fields (meaning we might have a thousand mechanical engineers when we need electrical engineers).... but many of them don't want to move to where the work is, and many expect to get paid more than their first job is going to offer, and I would almost guarantee that some of those are unemployed because they are terrible.

Thus... we need more qualified people, and the best way to get them is from other countries.... where people work hard, don't have unreasonable expectations, and are willing to go to where the work is.

I have worked with these "Highly Skilled" Indians, even as an Analyst.
They suck.
They don't speak speak English and don't know the programming language(s) they are supposed to know.
They don't even know how to link 2 or more Tables in a SQL statement.
This is a joke.

Then you should blame the person who hired this Indians. If he doesn’t speak English and don’t know programming. How did he/she even passed the first interview? Don’t they even question his education or qualifications?
.

Plenty of blame to go around. Yes, the person doing the hiring.

BUt there is no reason why Americans should support policies that serve the interests of Indians at the expense of Americans.

I do not support H1 program. It’s a direct threat to high paying American jobs. Plus
it demoralized the whole company.

I do have couple of Indians but they are US born also met their parents. I have asians, blacks and Hispanics and whites (65%)employees. We talked about this several times in the past.

This is a difficult time for me bcoz only 75% are reporting to work. My customers are hospitals and they are not taking no for answer.
I retired early and haven’t physically work for a long time. my son is running the business or day to day operations put me to work yesterday. Doing assemblies, shipping labels, pulling kits. My wife helped in accounts payable.
Kind of fun.

 

[charwin95]

There are two or three problems in this argument.

Millions of unemployed, doesn't mean that any of those millions are qualified in the position you need.

For example... If I am looking for a high end microprocessor designer, how many people of the unemployed are qualified high skill microprocessor engineers?

Answer... precious few.

From the numbers that we know of, there are significantly more high skill engineer positions open, than there are high skill engineers looking for employment.

So saying that there are millions of employed, so why are they importing high skill people.... is a bit like you asking for an electrician, and someone saying "Well there are a dozen unemployed oil change techs here. Why are you looking elsewhere?"

It does not matter if there are hundred million unemployed, if you need an engineer, and none of them are engineers.

So there are fewer skilled people, than skilled job openings, but also there are shortages in specific areas. Like if you need a Quantum physicist, and there are none, it doesn't matter if there are millions of skilled people unemployed, if none of them have the skill you need.

However, I personally have witnessed that we have a problem with how we're raising our young people. I see this in 3 key areas:

1. People seem to have this idea that they shouldn't have to move find work. Moving across the country, is part of the deal. High end jobs are simply not everywhere. People who sit around in their home town, unable to find work, and a company in Arizona is hiring an immigrant who by their nature, move to where the work is.

I've told the story of my immigrant roommate, and he moved 3 times AFTER he moved to the US. Why? Because where the work was, is where he went. That's how that works.

2. People with engineering degrees, seem to come out of college with this idea that they should walking into an entry level engineering job, with a six-figure income.

This is ridiculous. You are still an entry level engineer, and the company has no idea if you can even tie your shoes.

Which leads to the third problem....

3. A shockingly high percentage of people getting degrees suck.

Sorry to be blunt, and bold with this, but it's a fact. Maybe 50 years ago, no one got a degree unless they were fantastic. Today, people get degrees, and can't figure out how shoe laces work.

Now I want to be clear, that not ALL of them suck... just that an amazing number come out, and are utterly useless. How they got their degree is beyond me, but they certainly didn't earn it. They can't seem to do anything. Half don't show up on time. Others goof off half the day.

There should never be a time where I have to act like a human security camera, to make sure they are doing their job.

They suck. It's that simple.

And this shouldn't be super controversial. We already know people were buying their way into Ivy League schools. If your kid is stupid, and you buy their way into MIT, and they are able to get a degree after you bought their way in..... then obviously the schools are not teaching that much.

So to recap...

Not only do we have far fewer people with STEM degrees, than their are STEM jobs.... and even there we have a shortage of people qualified for specific fields (meaning we might have a thousand mechanical engineers when we need electrical engineers).... but many of them don't want to move to where the work is, and many expect to get paid more than their first job is going to offer, and I would almost guarantee that some of those are unemployed because they are terrible.

Thus... we need more qualified people, and the best way to get them is from other countries.... where people work hard, don't have unreasonable expectations, and are willing to go to where the work is.

I have worked with these "Highly Skilled" Indians, even as an Analyst.
They suck.
They don't speak speak English and don't know the programming language(s) they are supposed to know.
They don't even know how to link 2 or more Tables in a SQL statement.
This is a joke.

Then you should blame the person who hired this Indians. If he doesn’t speak English and don’t know programming. How did he/she even passed the first interview? Don’t they even question his education or qualifications?
.

Are you high?
All that matters in IT is keep the company going.
It’s not medicine or accounting where credentials are necessary.

It just basic. I haven’t run or seen that kinda problem.
applicants depending on the job will take a real test and several interviews. I don’t want to hear an employee is not qualified after it got hired.

This is the formula for generic chloroquine. It’s very simple and easy. If a chemist cannot translates this then there’s a problem.

 

[Mac-7]

But we do have to guard against resume fraud by the foreign workers

No, we have to make sure Americans are not kept from jobs in their own country because greedy fucktards want to squeeze another dime from our blood.

In general I agree

But right now we need more nurses

Shuffle them around within the USA then. We have nurses willing to move to a shit hole like New York or LA.

Thats a good idea that could be done if necessary

but if it comes to that adding qualified nurses from other countries on the guest worker program is not a bad idea either

 

[wamose]

Now is not the time for any immigration. WTF are they going to do, hand them their supercharged, unemployment on steroids package at the border? These people have to wait until there is a need that we can't fill, and that isn't happening anytime soon.

 

[Indeependent]

There are two or three problems in this argument.

Millions of unemployed, doesn't mean that any of those millions are qualified in the position you need.

For example... If I am looking for a high end microprocessor designer, how many people of the unemployed are qualified high skill microprocessor engineers?

Answer... precious few.

From the numbers that we know of, there are significantly more high skill engineer positions open, than there are high skill engineers looking for employment.

So saying that there are millions of employed, so why are they importing high skill people.... is a bit like you asking for an electrician, and someone saying "Well there are a dozen unemployed oil change techs here. Why are you looking elsewhere?"

It does not matter if there are hundred million unemployed, if you need an engineer, and none of them are engineers.

So there are fewer skilled people, than skilled job openings, but also there are shortages in specific areas. Like if you need a Quantum physicist, and there are none, it doesn't matter if there are millions of skilled people unemployed, if none of them have the skill you need.

However, I personally have witnessed that we have a problem with how we're raising our young people. I see this in 3 key areas:

1. People seem to have this idea that they shouldn't have to move find work. Moving across the country, is part of the deal. High end jobs are simply not everywhere. People who sit around in their home town, unable to find work, and a company in Arizona is hiring an immigrant who by their nature, move to where the work is.

I've told the story of my immigrant roommate, and he moved 3 times AFTER he moved to the US. Why? Because where the work was, is where he went. That's how that works.

2. People with engineering degrees, seem to come out of college with this idea that they should walking into an entry level engineering job, with a six-figure income.

This is ridiculous. You are still an entry level engineer, and the company has no idea if you can even tie your shoes.

Which leads to the third problem....

3. A shockingly high percentage of people getting degrees suck.

Sorry to be blunt, and bold with this, but it's a fact. Maybe 50 years ago, no one got a degree unless they were fantastic. Today, people get degrees, and can't figure out how shoe laces work.

Now I want to be clear, that not ALL of them suck... just that an amazing number come out, and are utterly useless. How they got their degree is beyond me, but they certainly didn't earn it. They can't seem to do anything. Half don't show up on time. Others goof off half the day.

There should never be a time where I have to act like a human security camera, to make sure they are doing their job.

They suck. It's that simple.

And this shouldn't be super controversial. We already know people were buying their way into Ivy League schools. If your kid is stupid, and you buy their way into MIT, and they are able to get a degree after you bought their way in..... then obviously the schools are not teaching that much.

So to recap...

Not only do we have far fewer people with STEM degrees, than their are STEM jobs.... and even there we have a shortage of people qualified for specific fields (meaning we might have a thousand mechanical engineers when we need electrical engineers).... but many of them don't want to move to where the work is, and many expect to get paid more than their first job is going to offer, and I would almost guarantee that some of those are unemployed because they are terrible.

Thus... we need more qualified people, and the best way to get them is from other countries.... where people work hard, don't have unreasonable expectations, and are willing to go to where the work is.

I have worked with these "Highly Skilled" Indians, even as an Analyst.
They suck.
They don't speak speak English and don't know the programming language(s) they are supposed to know.
They don't even know how to link 2 or more Tables in a SQL statement.
This is a joke.

Then you should blame the person who hired this Indians. If he doesn’t speak English and don’t know programming. How did he/she even passed the first interview? Don’t they even question his education or qualifications?
.

Are you high?
All that matters in IT is keep the company going.
It’s not medicine or accounting where credentials are necessary.

Well that's kind of OUR point. You claimed:

"They don't speak speak English and don't know the programming language(s) they are supposed to know.
They don't even know how to link 2 or more Tables in a SQL statement"

You said that, correct?

If you hire programmers, even at a low wage of $60K.... a programmer that can't program is worth zero... and produces zero.

A company that hired people like you describe, would cease to exist. If what you said is true, then what we're saying is.... "all that matters is keep the company going".... right... how would a programmer with zero ability like you suggest, keep anything going?

So something in your statement must be false. Either they are in fact capable of doing the job, or thousands of companies across the country are on the verge of closing because they spending millions on people who can't do the job.

And yet companies do it.
Did you ever work with an MBA in a major metropolis?
Do you know what they do all day?
They yell and write up why you suck so when it comes time to lay people off, the people under you go first.
Now go ahead and list for me the major financial institutions that have consistently released incredible web sites and Apps that have made you life easier.
Perhaps Citibank and Chase who have taken almost 20 years to get to where they are today because their programmers sucked and still suck.
But you can't talk to a Director or a Private Investor to hire talented people because to them everyone is a tool to be used and tossed.

I reiterate Apple and Amazon as rare examples because Tim Cook and Jeff Bezos are dedicated to producing great products, not inflated stock values based on software that's almost impossible to use.

 

[Indeependent]

There are two or three problems in this argument.

Millions of unemployed, doesn't mean that any of those millions are qualified in the position you need.

For example... If I am looking for a high end microprocessor designer, how many people of the unemployed are qualified high skill microprocessor engineers?

Answer... precious few.

From the numbers that we know of, there are significantly more high skill engineer positions open, than there are high skill engineers looking for employment.

So saying that there are millions of employed, so why are they importing high skill people.... is a bit like you asking for an electrician, and someone saying "Well there are a dozen unemployed oil change techs here. Why are you looking elsewhere?"

It does not matter if there are hundred million unemployed, if you need an engineer, and none of them are engineers.

So there are fewer skilled people, than skilled job openings, but also there are shortages in specific areas. Like if you need a Quantum physicist, and there are none, it doesn't matter if there are millions of skilled people unemployed, if none of them have the skill you need.

However, I personally have witnessed that we have a problem with how we're raising our young people. I see this in 3 key areas:

1. People seem to have this idea that they shouldn't have to move find work. Moving across the country, is part of the deal. High end jobs are simply not everywhere. People who sit around in their home town, unable to find work, and a company in Arizona is hiring an immigrant who by their nature, move to where the work is.

I've told the story of my immigrant roommate, and he moved 3 times AFTER he moved to the US. Why? Because where the work was, is where he went. That's how that works.

2. People with engineering degrees, seem to come out of college with this idea that they should walking into an entry level engineering job, with a six-figure income.

This is ridiculous. You are still an entry level engineer, and the company has no idea if you can even tie your shoes.

Which leads to the third problem....

3. A shockingly high percentage of people getting degrees suck.

Sorry to be blunt, and bold with this, but it's a fact. Maybe 50 years ago, no one got a degree unless they were fantastic. Today, people get degrees, and can't figure out how shoe laces work.

Now I want to be clear, that not ALL of them suck... just that an amazing number come out, and are utterly useless. How they got their degree is beyond me, but they certainly didn't earn it. They can't seem to do anything. Half don't show up on time. Others goof off half the day.

There should never be a time where I have to act like a human security camera, to make sure they are doing their job.

They suck. It's that simple.

And this shouldn't be super controversial. We already know people were buying their way into Ivy League schools. If your kid is stupid, and you buy their way into MIT, and they are able to get a degree after you bought their way in..... then obviously the schools are not teaching that much.

So to recap...

Not only do we have far fewer people with STEM degrees, than their are STEM jobs.... and even there we have a shortage of people qualified for specific fields (meaning we might have a thousand mechanical engineers when we need electrical engineers).... but many of them don't want to move to where the work is, and many expect to get paid more than their first job is going to offer, and I would almost guarantee that some of those are unemployed because they are terrible.

Thus... we need more qualified people, and the best way to get them is from other countries.... where people work hard, don't have unreasonable expectations, and are willing to go to where the work is.

I have worked with these "Highly Skilled" Indians, even as an Analyst.
They suck.
They don't speak speak English and don't know the programming language(s) they are supposed to know.
They don't even know how to link 2 or more Tables in a SQL statement.
This is a joke.

Then you should blame the person who hired this Indians. If he doesn’t speak English and don’t know programming. How did he/she even passed the first interview? Don’t they even question his education or qualifications?
.

Are you high?
All that matters in IT is keep the company going.
It’s not medicine or accounting where credentials are necessary.

It just basic. I haven’t run or seen that kinda problem.
applicants depending on the job will take a real test and several interviews. I don’t want to hear an employee is not qualified after it got hired.

This is the formula for generic chloroquine. It’s very simple and easy. If a chemist cannot translates this then there’s a problem.

Which has what to do with IT?
By the way, all the Indian scientist BVs who came after the 2008 Crash and replaced Americans were eventually sent back to India because they sucked and hospitals were being sued left and right.
If India was so rich in talent, their political leaders wouldn't be bribing Congress to admit them to send their paychecks back to India; India would be the new US.

 

[Indeependent]

But we do have to guard against resume fraud by the foreign workers

No, we have to make sure Americans are not kept from jobs in their own country because greedy fucktards want to squeeze another dime from our blood.

In general I agree

But right now we need more nurses

Shuffle them around within the USA then. We have nurses willing to move to a shit hole like New York or LA.

Thats a good idea that could be done if necessary

but if it comes to that adding qualified nurses from other countries on the guest worker program is not a bad idea either

Kewl...ever have a conversation with a nurse who doesn't know English?

 

[JimBowie1958]

but if it comes to that adding qualified nurses from other countries on the guest worker program is not a bad idea either

Kewl...ever have a conversation with a nurse who doesn't know English?

Yes, I did, and I died from it.

 

[MindWars]

They think the DHS is ran by Nancy Pelosi or some other Dem they hate....they will never criticize their cult leader

Secretary of DHS Chad f Wolf and the DHS council run homeland security. Trump is Commander and Chief, he doesn't micro manage everything his nose doesn't belong in like Obama. It's not Trumps fault.

Think of a ship Captain. He doesn't steer the ship, quartermaster does. He doesn't control the throttle, Enineman does. He doesn't dock the ship, tugs and harbor pilot do. That all trumps fault too? TDS much there Biff?
Secretary of Homeland Security

The Secretary of Homeland Security leads the third largest Department of the U.S. government, with a workforce of 229,000 employees and 22 components including TSA, Customs and Border Protection, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, FEMA, the Coast Guard, Secret Service, Federal Law Enforcement Training Centers, the National Protection and Programs Directorate, and the Science and Technology Directorate.

Secretary of Homeland Security | Homeland Security

The Secretary of Homeland Security oversees the third largest Cabinet department and leads our nation's efforts to secure our country from the many threats we face.

www.dhs.gov

Talk about some bullshit of an excuse, but hey that is the typical Trump Humper. Nothing is NEVER his fault unless it is good.

lol
View attachment 317289

The Obama ass kissers are the mess Trump is trying to clean up after.

The house was clean when the keys were given to Trump, Trump Humpers will eat 10 miles of Trump shit before they will believe the truth.

View attachment 317380

D.A>

reality dip-shit reality. the fake meme we know is not real it was made by a moron just like you Trump haters are all the same the logic levels are hte same too..

 

[Andylusion]

There are two or three problems in this argument.

Millions of unemployed, doesn't mean that any of those millions are qualified in the position you need.

For example... If I am looking for a high end microprocessor designer, how many people of the unemployed are qualified high skill microprocessor engineers?

Answer... precious few.

From the numbers that we know of, there are significantly more high skill engineer positions open, than there are high skill engineers looking for employment.

So saying that there are millions of employed, so why are they importing high skill people.... is a bit like you asking for an electrician, and someone saying "Well there are a dozen unemployed oil change techs here. Why are you looking elsewhere?"

It does not matter if there are hundred million unemployed, if you need an engineer, and none of them are engineers.

So there are fewer skilled people, than skilled job openings, but also there are shortages in specific areas. Like if you need a Quantum physicist, and there are none, it doesn't matter if there are millions of skilled people unemployed, if none of them have the skill you need.

However, I personally have witnessed that we have a problem with how we're raising our young people. I see this in 3 key areas:

1. People seem to have this idea that they shouldn't have to move find work. Moving across the country, is part of the deal. High end jobs are simply not everywhere. People who sit around in their home town, unable to find work, and a company in Arizona is hiring an immigrant who by their nature, move to where the work is.

I've told the story of my immigrant roommate, and he moved 3 times AFTER he moved to the US. Why? Because where the work was, is where he went. That's how that works.

2. People with engineering degrees, seem to come out of college with this idea that they should walking into an entry level engineering job, with a six-figure income.

This is ridiculous. You are still an entry level engineer, and the company has no idea if you can even tie your shoes.

Which leads to the third problem....

3. A shockingly high percentage of people getting degrees suck.

Sorry to be blunt, and bold with this, but it's a fact. Maybe 50 years ago, no one got a degree unless they were fantastic. Today, people get degrees, and can't figure out how shoe laces work.

Now I want to be clear, that not ALL of them suck... just that an amazing number come out, and are utterly useless. How they got their degree is beyond me, but they certainly didn't earn it. They can't seem to do anything. Half don't show up on time. Others goof off half the day.

There should never be a time where I have to act like a human security camera, to make sure they are doing their job.

They suck. It's that simple.

And this shouldn't be super controversial. We already know people were buying their way into Ivy League schools. If your kid is stupid, and you buy their way into MIT, and they are able to get a degree after you bought their way in..... then obviously the schools are not teaching that much.

So to recap...

Not only do we have far fewer people with STEM degrees, than their are STEM jobs.... and even there we have a shortage of people qualified for specific fields (meaning we might have a thousand mechanical engineers when we need electrical engineers).... but many of them don't want to move to where the work is, and many expect to get paid more than their first job is going to offer, and I would almost guarantee that some of those are unemployed because they are terrible.

Thus... we need more qualified people, and the best way to get them is from other countries.... where people work hard, don't have unreasonable expectations, and are willing to go to where the work is.

I have worked with these "Highly Skilled" Indians, even as an Analyst.
They suck.
They don't speak speak English and don't know the programming language(s) they are supposed to know.
They don't even know how to link 2 or more Tables in a SQL statement.
This is a joke.

Then you should blame the person who hired this Indians. If he doesn’t speak English and don’t know programming. How did he/she even passed the first interview? Don’t they even question his education or qualifications?
.

Are you high?
All that matters in IT is keep the company going.
It’s not medicine or accounting where credentials are necessary.

Well that's kind of OUR point. You claimed:

"They don't speak speak English and don't know the programming language(s) they are supposed to know.
They don't even know how to link 2 or more Tables in a SQL statement"

You said that, correct?

If you hire programmers, even at a low wage of $60K.... a programmer that can't program is worth zero... and produces zero.

A company that hired people like you describe, would cease to exist. If what you said is true, then what we're saying is.... "all that matters is keep the company going".... right... how would a programmer with zero ability like you suggest, keep anything going?

So something in your statement must be false. Either they are in fact capable of doing the job, or thousands of companies across the country are on the verge of closing because they spending millions on people who can't do the job.

And yet companies do it.
Did you ever work with an MBA in a major metropolis?
Do you know what they do all day?
They yell and write up why you suck so when it comes time to lay people off, the people under you go first.
Now go ahead and list for me the major financial institutions that have consistently released incredible web sites and Apps that have made you life easier.
Perhaps Citibank and Chase who have taken almost 20 years to get to where they are today because their programmers sucked and still suck.
But you can't talk to a Director or a Private Investor to hire talented people because to them everyone is a tool to be used and tossed.

I reiterate Apple and Amazon as rare examples because Tim Cook and Jeff Bezos are dedicated to producing great products, not inflated stock values based on software that's almost impossible to use.

Well again... if companies are doing it, then it must be working.

If you are telling me that they can't program at all, and yet were able to make useful software? If it wasn't useful software, then why am I able to use it?

You say it has taken almost 20 years to get to where they are... true. That's also true of all software.
Obviously, I have not used every single app, and website, from every single major financial institution. I will say, that all of the ones that I have, since I started online banking back in 2001, have been amazingly good, and did improve my life.

Did you ever work with an MBA in a major metropolis?
Do you know what they do all day?
They yell and write up why you suck so when it comes time to lay people off, the people under you go first.

To answer, yes actually I have. I don't know if you had one horrible experience, and now you are attributing that to everyone.... but it appears that way.

The one good side to having many different jobs in my life, is that I've seen all sides. Are there companies with tons of a politics, where smacking people down constantly, is a method for moving up?

Yes. Of course. I've been in those companies, where management was amazing... it was the guy in the next cubicle over that you had to watch out for, or your direct supervisor, who went out of his way to make sure your mistakes are highlighted, and how his brilliant fixes saved us.

I've seen that, yes.

But I've been in other places where, that never happened. Where everyone was cool, and as long as the job got done on time, no one complained ever.

I know for a fact, that not all companies operate the way that you describe. I think you had a bad experience somewhere, and it's colored your vision of the entire world, because I know many programmers, and coders, and people in your field, and you are 1 out of about... 20 or so that I think of off hand, that has your view.

 

[Indeependent]

There are two or three problems in this argument.

Millions of unemployed, doesn't mean that any of those millions are qualified in the position you need.

For example... If I am looking for a high end microprocessor designer, how many people of the unemployed are qualified high skill microprocessor engineers?

Answer... precious few.

From the numbers that we know of, there are significantly more high skill engineer positions open, than there are high skill engineers looking for employment.

So saying that there are millions of employed, so why are they importing high skill people.... is a bit like you asking for an electrician, and someone saying "Well there are a dozen unemployed oil change techs here. Why are you looking elsewhere?"

It does not matter if there are hundred million unemployed, if you need an engineer, and none of them are engineers.

So there are fewer skilled people, than skilled job openings, but also there are shortages in specific areas. Like if you need a Quantum physicist, and there are none, it doesn't matter if there are millions of skilled people unemployed, if none of them have the skill you need.

However, I personally have witnessed that we have a problem with how we're raising our young people. I see this in 3 key areas:

1. People seem to have this idea that they shouldn't have to move find work. Moving across the country, is part of the deal. High end jobs are simply not everywhere. People who sit around in their home town, unable to find work, and a company in Arizona is hiring an immigrant who by their nature, move to where the work is.

I've told the story of my immigrant roommate, and he moved 3 times AFTER he moved to the US. Why? Because where the work was, is where he went. That's how that works.

2. People with engineering degrees, seem to come out of college with this idea that they should walking into an entry level engineering job, with a six-figure income.

This is ridiculous. You are still an entry level engineer, and the company has no idea if you can even tie your shoes.

Which leads to the third problem....

3. A shockingly high percentage of people getting degrees suck.

Sorry to be blunt, and bold with this, but it's a fact. Maybe 50 years ago, no one got a degree unless they were fantastic. Today, people get degrees, and can't figure out how shoe laces work.

Now I want to be clear, that not ALL of them suck... just that an amazing number come out, and are utterly useless. How they got their degree is beyond me, but they certainly didn't earn it. They can't seem to do anything. Half don't show up on time. Others goof off half the day.

There should never be a time where I have to act like a human security camera, to make sure they are doing their job.

They suck. It's that simple.

And this shouldn't be super controversial. We already know people were buying their way into Ivy League schools. If your kid is stupid, and you buy their way into MIT, and they are able to get a degree after you bought their way in..... then obviously the schools are not teaching that much.

So to recap...

Not only do we have far fewer people with STEM degrees, than their are STEM jobs.... and even there we have a shortage of people qualified for specific fields (meaning we might have a thousand mechanical engineers when we need electrical engineers).... but many of them don't want to move to where the work is, and many expect to get paid more than their first job is going to offer, and I would almost guarantee that some of those are unemployed because they are terrible.

Thus... we need more qualified people, and the best way to get them is from other countries.... where people work hard, don't have unreasonable expectations, and are willing to go to where the work is.

I have worked with these "Highly Skilled" Indians, even as an Analyst.
They suck.
They don't speak speak English and don't know the programming language(s) they are supposed to know.
They don't even know how to link 2 or more Tables in a SQL statement.
This is a joke.

Then you should blame the person who hired this Indians. If he doesn’t speak English and don’t know programming. How did he/she even passed the first interview? Don’t they even question his education or qualifications?
.

Are you high?
All that matters in IT is keep the company going.
It’s not medicine or accounting where credentials are necessary.

Well that's kind of OUR point. You claimed:

"They don't speak speak English and don't know the programming language(s) they are supposed to know.
They don't even know how to link 2 or more Tables in a SQL statement"

You said that, correct?

If you hire programmers, even at a low wage of $60K.... a programmer that can't program is worth zero... and produces zero.

A company that hired people like you describe, would cease to exist. If what you said is true, then what we're saying is.... "all that matters is keep the company going".... right... how would a programmer with zero ability like you suggest, keep anything going?

So something in your statement must be false. Either they are in fact capable of doing the job, or thousands of companies across the country are on the verge of closing because they spending millions on people who can't do the job.

And yet companies do it.
Did you ever work with an MBA in a major metropolis?
Do you know what they do all day?
They yell and write up why you suck so when it comes time to lay people off, the people under you go first.
Now go ahead and list for me the major financial institutions that have consistently released incredible web sites and Apps that have made you life easier.
Perhaps Citibank and Chase who have taken almost 20 years to get to where they are today because their programmers sucked and still suck.
But you can't talk to a Director or a Private Investor to hire talented people because to them everyone is a tool to be used and tossed.

I reiterate Apple and Amazon as rare examples because Tim Cook and Jeff Bezos are dedicated to producing great products, not inflated stock values based on software that's almost impossible to use.

Well again... if companies are doing it, then it must be working.

If you are telling me that they can't program at all, and yet were able to make useful software? If it wasn't useful software, then why am I able to use it?

You say it has taken almost 20 years to get to where they are... true. That's also true of all software.
Obviously, I have not used every single app, and website, from every single major financial institution. I will say, that all of the ones that I have, since I started online banking back in 2001, have been amazingly good, and did improve my life.

Did you ever work with an MBA in a major metropolis?
Do you know what they do all day?
They yell and write up why you suck so when it comes time to lay people off, the people under you go first.

To answer, yes actually I have. I don't know if you had one horrible experience, and now you are attributing that to everyone.... but it appears that way.

The one good side to having many different jobs in my life, is that I've seen all sides. Are there companies with tons of a politics, where smacking people down constantly, is a method for moving up?

Yes. Of course. I've been in those companies, where management was amazing... it was the guy in the next cubicle over that you had to watch out for, or your direct supervisor, who went out of his way to make sure your mistakes are highlighted, and how his brilliant fixes saved us.

I've seen that, yes.

But I've been in other places where, that never happened. Where everyone was cool, and as long as the job got done on time, no one complained ever.

I know for a fact, that not all companies operate the way that you describe. I think you had a bad experience somewhere, and it's colored your vision of the entire world, because I know many programmers, and coders, and people in your field, and you are 1 out of about... 20 or so that I think of off hand, that has your view.

I have worked in many financial firms and 99% of their projects actually fail.
They don't care as long as they can continue to sucker in Private Investors.

To be honest, if I worked in middle America rather than a border state I probably would have had more positive experiences, but huge financial firms don't tend to operate out of "Nevada".

 

[Mac-7]

But we do have to guard against resume fraud by the foreign workers

No, we have to make sure Americans are not kept from jobs in their own country because greedy fucktards want to squeeze another dime from our blood.

In general I agree

But right now we need more nurses

Shuffle them around within the USA then. We have nurses willing to move to a shit hole like New York or LA.

Thats a good idea that could be done if necessary

but if it comes to that adding qualified nurses from other countries on the guest worker program is not a bad idea either

Kewl...ever have a conversation with a nurse who doesn't know English?

I should say no comment

but some of my fondest memories involve nurses who spoke broken English