Missouri ends permit requirement, Murders increase

[ogibillm]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/22/h...un-killings.html?ribbon-ad-idx=5&rref=us&_r=0

it's an interesting article. The state of Missouri relaxed the rules for buying handguns and the murder rate increased significantly while the national average decreased. the confiscation of guns used in crimes purchased in missouri increased significantly, and the number of guns purchased shortly before a crime increased significantly as well.

so what are we to take from this? who benefited from the removal of the permit system if not criminals?

 

[TheOldSchool]

Missouri shouldn't be used to make a point. That state is perpetually an exception to humanity.

 

[ogibillm]

Missouri shouldn't be used to make a point. That state is perpetually an exception to humanity.

My home this is!

 

[tyroneweaver]

Missouri shouldn't be used to make a point. That state is perpetually an exception to humanity.

My home this is!

If you guys wouldn't of chucked the Mormons out you would have a city as peaceful as SLC. Instead you got Ferguson. Which you deserve.

 

[ogibillm]

Missouri shouldn't be used to make a point. That state is perpetually an exception to humanity.

My home this is!

If you guys wouldn't of chucked the Mormons out you would have a city as peaceful as SLC. Instead you got Ferguson. Which you deserve.

have.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"Missouri began changing its gun laws after the Republican Party won control of the State House in 2002 for the first time in years. But many Democrats also supported relaxing the restrictions."

Another lie from the right exposed to be in fact a lie.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"Research by Daniel Webster, the director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research, found that in the first six years after the state repealed the requirement for comprehensive background checks and purchase permits, the gun homicide rate was 16 percent higher than it was the six years before. During the same period, the national rate declined by 11 percent. After Professor Webster controlled for poverty and other factors that could influence the homicide rate, and took into account homicide rates in other states, the result was slightly higher, rising by 18 percent in Missouri."

And here we see how inconsistent most on the right are concerning their 'arguments' about 'gun control.'

If this inference is incorrect because there's no evidence linking changing the law to an increase in the gun homicide rate, then just as wrong is the inference that more citizens carrying concealed firearms 'decreases' gun violence.

Conservatives can't have it both ways.

 

[turtledude]

"Research by Daniel Webster, the director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research, found that in the first six years after the state repealed the requirement for comprehensive background checks and purchase permits, the gun homicide rate was 16 percent higher than it was the six years before. During the same period, the national rate declined by 11 percent. After Professor Webster controlled for poverty and other factors that could influence the homicide rate, and took into account homicide rates in other states, the result was slightly higher, rising by 18 percent in Missouri."

And here we see how inconsistent most on the right are concerning their 'arguments' about 'gun control.'

If this inference is incorrect because there's no evidence linking changing the law to an increase in the gun homicide rate, then just as wrong is the inference that more citizens carrying concealed firearms 'decreases' gun violence.

Conservatives can't have it both ways.

banoid morons like you never can understand causation vs correlation. Webster starts with a premise and works backwards.

did he delineate lawful gun owners vs those banned from owning guns

 

[Missourian]

Missouri shouldn't be used to make a point. That state is perpetually an exception to humanity.

My home this is!

Old School is just jealous. Pay him no attention, no one else does.

 

[TheOldSchool]

Missouri shouldn't be used to make a point. That state is perpetually an exception to humanity.

My home this is!

Old School is just jealous. Pay him no attention, no one else does.

Now I know how Missouri feels

 

[Missourian]

Kansas City and St. Louis traditionally are among the bloodiest cities in America. For too many years, both have had extremely high and embarrassing murder rates.

But when 2014 ended Wednesday night, that trend had taken a more positive turn — at least in Kansas City.

It recorded 77 homicides for the year, way down from 100 in 2013.

By contrast, St. Louis suffered an alarming 159 murders, way up from the 120 in the previous year.

It’s notable that Kansas City, with an estimated population of more than 465,000, is far larger than the long-declining St. Louis, with just under 319,000 people.

In Missouri’s two bloody cities, St. Louis swamped Kansas City in 2014 murders​

Two major metropolitan cities operating under the exact same laws...

See my point?

 

[Missourian]

PS...Springfield is almost exactly half the population of St Louis....17 total homicides in 2014.

 

[Missourian]

There was a total of 403 homicides in Missouri in 2014.

159 in StL and 77 in KC....236 total for 784,000 population in two cities.

That leaves 167 homicides for the other 5.2 MILLION citizens of Missouri.

It's obvious what the problem is and where it is...political correctness or apathy or both keeps us from addressing it.

 

[Missourian]

Missouri shouldn't be used to make a point. That state is perpetually an exception to humanity.

My home this is!

Old School is just jealous. Pay him no attention, no one else does.

Now I know how Missouri feels

Bah...Missouri is one of the greatest state in the Union.

 

[ogibillm]

There was a total of 403 homicides in Missouri in 2014.

159 in StL and 77 in KC....236 total for 784,000 population in two cities.

That leaves 167 homicides for the other 5.2 MILLION citizens of Missouri.

It's obvious what the problem is and where it is...political correctness or apathy or both keeps us from addressing it.

Kansas City and St. Louis existed before the permit requirement was removed.

 

[Missourian]

There was a total of 403 homicides in Missouri in 2014.

159 in StL and 77 in KC....236 total for 784,000 population in two cities.

That leaves 167 homicides for the other 5.2 MILLION citizens of Missouri.

It's obvious what the problem is and where it is...political correctness or apathy or both keeps us from addressing it.

Kansas City and St. Louis existed before the permit requirement was removed.

And?

Kansas City, the largest city in the state, had it's lowest homicide totals last year since 1972. How can that have happened after the permit requirement was removed?

 

[2aguy]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/22/h...un-killings.html?ribbon-ad-idx=5&rref=us&_r=0

it's an interesting article. The state of Missouri relaxed the rules for buying handguns and the murder rate increased significantly while the national average decreased. the confiscation of guns used in crimes purchased in missouri increased significantly, and the number of guns purchased shortly before a crime increased significantly as well.

so what are we to take from this? who benefited from the removal of the permit system if not criminals?

Yeah...this was debunked months ago....

 

[2aguy]

And here is more on Missouri...

What does Missouri show about the benefits from universal background checks?: Nothing really, The forthcoming Journal of Urban Health study by the Bloomberg School of Public Health

The results are more complicated than simply looking at what the average murder rate before and after rescinding the Missouri law. While it is true that the murder rates in Missouri rose 17 percent relative to the rest of the US after the law was changed, it had actually increased by 32 percent during the five years prior to the change. The question is why the Missouri murder rate was increasing relative to the rest of the US at a slower rate after the change in the law than it did prior to it. The period 1999 to 2012 is picked because that is the period of time examined in Webster’s study

 

[2aguy]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/22/h...un-killings.html?ribbon-ad-idx=5&rref=us&_r=0

it's an interesting article. The state of Missouri relaxed the rules for buying handguns and the murder rate increased significantly while the national average decreased. the confiscation of guns used in crimes purchased in missouri increased significantly, and the number of guns purchased shortly before a crime increased significantly as well.

so what are we to take from this? who benefited from the removal of the permit system if not criminals?

Riddle me this batman.....criminals still have to go through federal background checks....so they still get straw purchasers anyway? Criminals are not affected by any form of permit system...only people who don't shoot other people are.

 

[2aguy]

And this....

The question the media should ask is: why pick one state when there are so many states with this law? Not only isn’t it the right way to do research, it is pretty obvious to anyone who has looked at the national data that Webster picked that one state to report because it was the one that gave him the result that he wanted. Do studies that collect data on every state take a little more time? Sure, but it isn’t that much more difficult and without it you can’t really determine anything
----------

Other questions are why the paper only examines murder rates and not any other type of violent crime or why only murder rates from 1999 and later are examined. Again, the answer is clear: none of the other violent crime rates, including robbery, showed the change that Webster desired. As to the years studied, one would think that since Missouri’s law went into effect in 1981 researchers would study the impact on crime both when the law was adopted and when it was repealed. Yet, again, the answer for why this wasn’t done is obvious.