Nine reasons for scepticism part 2

[Czernobog]

One of our regular theists wants to talk about the universe, as if that universe is, somehow, evidence of a "Creator". So, let's talk about the universe a little bit, shall we?

• Our insignificant place in the Universe.

Our Sun is an unremarkable star, in a boring little solar system, at the ass-end of a mediocre galaxy which is completely unremarkable among the 100 thousand other galaxies in the known universe. It has been estimated that there are some 30 billion planets in the Milky Way alone, any one of 100 million of which likely has an Earth-like atmosphere capable of supporting life. The number of likely life supporting planets in the Universe is 30 billion times 100 billion - a number so astronomical that there isn't even a name for it. It's quite probable, therefore, that life exists somewhere other than here.

Then there's the question of time. The universe came into being 13.5 billion years ago. Humans developed a mere five million years ago. In other words, we have only existed for 0.000036% of the time that the universe existed. Astronomers estimate that the Sun is going to burn itself out in about another 5 billion years. So, assuming that the planet doesn't become uninhabitable before then, or that some life ending catastrophe, like the asteroid that ended the dinosaurs, or a solar megaflare,or some other mass extinction event doesn't beat the sun to it, when it explodes, and incinerates all of the inner planets, then, unless we have figured out a way to reach the stars, and colonise beyond our solar system, the entire length of human existence will be a whopping 0.0014% of that of the known universe.

How plausible is it, then, that some creator made this entire cosmic machinery solely for the benefit of our puny little species, which exists for mere moments in cosmic history, and are a nearly infinitesimally tiny little speck in the whole of the universe. Just how grandiose, and delusional must humanity's over-blown sense of self-importance be to be so out of sync with the known dimensions of time, and space?

 

[Fenton Lum]

Again, this all goes back to the notion of male dominator god religions.

 

[ding]

One of our regular theists wants to talk about the universe, as if that universe is, somehow, evidence of a "Creator". So, let's talk about the universe a little bit, shall we?

• Our insignificant place in the Universe.

Our Sun is an unremarkable star, in a boring little solar system, at the ass-end of a mediocre galaxy which is completely unremarkable among the 100 thousand other galaxies in the known universe. It has been estimated that there are some 30 billion planets in the Milky Way alone, any one of 100 million of which likely has an Earth-like atmosphere capable of supporting life. The number of likely life supporting planets in the Universe is 30 billion times 100 billion - a number so astronomical that there isn't even a name for it. It's quite probable, therefore, that life exists somewhere other than here.

Then there's the question of time. The universe came into being 13.5 billion years ago. Humans developed a mere five million years ago. In other words, we have only existed for 0.000036% of the time that the universe existed. Astronomers estimate that the Sun is going to burn itself out in about another 5 billion years. So, assuming that the planet doesn't become uninhabitable before then, or that some life ending catastrophe, like the asteroid that ended the dinosaurs, or a solar megaflare,or some other mass extinction event doesn't beat the sun to it, when it explodes, and incinerates all of the inner planets, then, unless we have figured out a way to reach the stars, and colonise beyond our solar system, the entire length of human existence will be a whopping 0.0014% of that of the known universe.

How plausible is it, then, that some creator made this entire cosmic machinery solely for the benefit of our puny little species, which exists for mere moments in cosmic history, and are a nearly infinitesimally tiny little speck in the whole of the universe. Just how grandiose, and delusional must humanity's over-blown sense of self-importance be to be so out of sync with the known dimensions of time, and space?

Can you name anything in the universe that is more rare and more complex than consciousness?

 

[Fenton Lum]

One of our regular theists wants to talk about the universe, as if that universe is, somehow, evidence of a "Creator". So, let's talk about the universe a little bit, shall we?

• Our insignificant place in the Universe.

Our Sun is an unremarkable star, in a boring little solar system, at the ass-end of a mediocre galaxy which is completely unremarkable among the 100 thousand other galaxies in the known universe. It has been estimated that there are some 30 billion planets in the Milky Way alone, any one of 100 million of which likely has an Earth-like atmosphere capable of supporting life. The number of likely life supporting planets in the Universe is 30 billion times 100 billion - a number so astronomical that there isn't even a name for it. It's quite probable, therefore, that life exists somewhere other than here.

Then there's the question of time. The universe came into being 13.5 billion years ago. Humans developed a mere five million years ago. In other words, we have only existed for 0.000036% of the time that the universe existed. Astronomers estimate that the Sun is going to burn itself out in about another 5 billion years. So, assuming that the planet doesn't become uninhabitable before then, or that some life ending catastrophe, like the asteroid that ended the dinosaurs, or a solar megaflare,or some other mass extinction event doesn't beat the sun to it, when it explodes, and incinerates all of the inner planets, then, unless we have figured out a way to reach the stars, and colonise beyond our solar system, the entire length of human existence will be a whopping 0.0014% of that of the known universe.

How plausible is it, then, that some creator made this entire cosmic machinery solely for the benefit of our puny little species, which exists for mere moments in cosmic history, and are a nearly infinitesimally tiny little speck in the whole of the universe. Just how grandiose, and delusional must humanity's over-blown sense of self-importance be to be so out of sync with the known dimensions of time, and space?

Can you name anything in the universe that is more rare and more complex than consciousness?

We're still attempting to determine whether you actually are conscious.

 

[aris2chat]

One of our regular theists wants to talk about the universe, as if that universe is, somehow, evidence of a "Creator". So, let's talk about the universe a little bit, shall we?

• Our insignificant place in the Universe.

Our Sun is an unremarkable star, in a boring little solar system, at the ass-end of a mediocre galaxy which is completely unremarkable among the 100 thousand other galaxies in the known universe. It has been estimated that there are some 30 billion planets in the Milky Way alone, any one of 100 million of which likely has an Earth-like atmosphere capable of supporting life. The number of likely life supporting planets in the Universe is 30 billion times 100 billion - a number so astronomical that there isn't even a name for it. It's quite probable, therefore, that life exists somewhere other than here.

Then there's the question of time. The universe came into being 13.5 billion years ago. Humans developed a mere five million years ago. In other words, we have only existed for 0.000036% of the time that the universe existed. Astronomers estimate that the Sun is going to burn itself out in about another 5 billion years. So, assuming that the planet doesn't become uninhabitable before then, or that some life ending catastrophe, like the asteroid that ended the dinosaurs, or a solar megaflare,or some other mass extinction event doesn't beat the sun to it, when it explodes, and incinerates all of the inner planets, then, unless we have figured out a way to reach the stars, and colonise beyond our solar system, the entire length of human existence will be a whopping 0.0014% of that of the known universe.

How plausible is it, then, that some creator made this entire cosmic machinery solely for the benefit of our puny little species, which exists for mere moments in cosmic history, and are a nearly infinitesimally tiny little speck in the whole of the universe. Just how grandiose, and delusional must humanity's over-blown sense of self-importance be to be so out of sync with the known dimensions of time, and space?

Can you name anything in the universe that is more rare and more complex than consciousness?

We have no idea how rare or common consciousness is. Animals of all kinds have a consciousness, though how advanced and self ware they are is not yet full gaged. Any living thing that feels pain or reacts to stimuli has some innate sense of self and a sense of self preservation, a consciousness of sorts. Even plants react to cold, sun, water, etc. and move in response to the outside world.
A rock however.................. scientist are still test that as far as I know.

There are billions of galaxies and billions upon billions of solar systems and planets around them. Conscious life might even exist in deep space or in vibrations and energy itself. In a technical sense it might be very common, but not quite in the way you think of your own consciousness.

Mankind or something like us might also be relatively common. Our know system is a speck on a piece of sand, think of how much sand above and below the water there is on this planet alone.

In the universe we might be as self aware and advance as an ant is to us, or probably less. Our solar system is not so old so we are likely infants to the rest of this universe, and we have no idea how old or how many others there might be. We can't even know much beyond our own galaxy, and most of that is just theory for now.

As for a higher power, that could just as well be someone visiting or mental projection through time and space. Superior but hardly the creator of all. An older uncle of sorts watching us grow up via video or images posted on a sort of universal instagram. That does not make it god/creator of all life of any sort, just another life form somewhere out there.

A parent might have created you but we are not the creators of the planet or all life. Life existed for millions of years, here, and we have only existed for a fraction of time.

If god is an easy answer for you and you want no other, fine. It is a pacifier to a child. You can stay in your little illusion of the life, your life. Some want to open the door, step outside and explore beyond this world or even this universe. To a child their parents might seem as gods till they learn more.

 

[ding]

One of our regular theists wants to talk about the universe, as if that universe is, somehow, evidence of a "Creator". So, let's talk about the universe a little bit, shall we?

• Our insignificant place in the Universe.

Our Sun is an unremarkable star, in a boring little solar system, at the ass-end of a mediocre galaxy which is completely unremarkable among the 100 thousand other galaxies in the known universe. It has been estimated that there are some 30 billion planets in the Milky Way alone, any one of 100 million of which likely has an Earth-like atmosphere capable of supporting life. The number of likely life supporting planets in the Universe is 30 billion times 100 billion - a number so astronomical that there isn't even a name for it. It's quite probable, therefore, that life exists somewhere other than here.

Then there's the question of time. The universe came into being 13.5 billion years ago. Humans developed a mere five million years ago. In other words, we have only existed for 0.000036% of the time that the universe existed. Astronomers estimate that the Sun is going to burn itself out in about another 5 billion years. So, assuming that the planet doesn't become uninhabitable before then, or that some life ending catastrophe, like the asteroid that ended the dinosaurs, or a solar megaflare,or some other mass extinction event doesn't beat the sun to it, when it explodes, and incinerates all of the inner planets, then, unless we have figured out a way to reach the stars, and colonise beyond our solar system, the entire length of human existence will be a whopping 0.0014% of that of the known universe.

How plausible is it, then, that some creator made this entire cosmic machinery solely for the benefit of our puny little species, which exists for mere moments in cosmic history, and are a nearly infinitesimally tiny little speck in the whole of the universe. Just how grandiose, and delusional must humanity's over-blown sense of self-importance be to be so out of sync with the known dimensions of time, and space?

Can you name anything in the universe that is more rare and more complex than consciousness?

We have no idea how rare or common consciousness is. Animals of all kinds have a consciousness, though how advanced and self ware they are is not yet full gaged. Any living thing that feels pain or reacts to stimuli has some innate sense of self and a sense of self preservation, a consciousness of sorts. Even plants react to cold, sun, water, etc. and move in response to the outside world.
A rock however.................. scientist are still test that as far as I know.

There are billions of galaxies and billions upon billions of solar systems and planets around them. Conscious life might even exist in deep space or in vibrations and energy itself. In a technical sense it might be very common, but not quite in the way you think of your own consciousness.

Mankind or something like us might also be relatively common. Our know system is a speck on a piece of sand, think of how much sand above and below the water there is on this planet alone.

In the universe we might be as self aware and advance as an ant is to us, or probably less. Our solar system is not so old so we are likely infants to the rest of this universe, and we have no idea how old or how many others there might be. We can't even know much beyond our own galaxy, and most of that is just theory for now.

As for a higher power, that could just as well be someone visiting or mental projection through time and space. Superior but hardly the creator of all. An older uncle of sorts watching us grow up via video or images posted on a sort of universal instagram. That does not make it god/creator of all life of any sort, just another life form somewhere out there.

A parent might have created you but we are not the creators of the planet or all life. Life existed for millions of years, here, and we have only existed for a fraction of time.

If god is an easy answer for you and you want no other, fine. It is a pacifier to a child. You can stay in your little illusion of the life, your life. Some want to open the door, step outside and explore beyond this world or even this universe. To a child their parents might seem as gods till they learn more.

Can you name anything in the universe that is more rare and more complex than consciousness?

 

[ding]

One of our regular theists wants to talk about the universe, as if that universe is, somehow, evidence of a "Creator". So, let's talk about the universe a little bit, shall we?

• Our insignificant place in the Universe.

Our Sun is an unremarkable star, in a boring little solar system, at the ass-end of a mediocre galaxy which is completely unremarkable among the 100 thousand other galaxies in the known universe. It has been estimated that there are some 30 billion planets in the Milky Way alone, any one of 100 million of which likely has an Earth-like atmosphere capable of supporting life. The number of likely life supporting planets in the Universe is 30 billion times 100 billion - a number so astronomical that there isn't even a name for it. It's quite probable, therefore, that life exists somewhere other than here.

Then there's the question of time. The universe came into being 13.5 billion years ago. Humans developed a mere five million years ago. In other words, we have only existed for 0.000036% of the time that the universe existed. Astronomers estimate that the Sun is going to burn itself out in about another 5 billion years. So, assuming that the planet doesn't become uninhabitable before then, or that some life ending catastrophe, like the asteroid that ended the dinosaurs, or a solar megaflare,or some other mass extinction event doesn't beat the sun to it, when it explodes, and incinerates all of the inner planets, then, unless we have figured out a way to reach the stars, and colonise beyond our solar system, the entire length of human existence will be a whopping 0.0014% of that of the known universe.

How plausible is it, then, that some creator made this entire cosmic machinery solely for the benefit of our puny little species, which exists for mere moments in cosmic history, and are a nearly infinitesimally tiny little speck in the whole of the universe. Just how grandiose, and delusional must humanity's over-blown sense of self-importance be to be so out of sync with the known dimensions of time, and space?

Can you name anything in the universe that is more rare and more complex than consciousness?

We're still attempting to determine whether you actually are conscious.

Can you name anything in the universe that is more rare and more complex than consciousness?

 

[aris2chat]

One of our regular theists wants to talk about the universe, as if that universe is, somehow, evidence of a "Creator". So, let's talk about the universe a little bit, shall we?

• Our insignificant place in the Universe.

Our Sun is an unremarkable star, in a boring little solar system, at the ass-end of a mediocre galaxy which is completely unremarkable among the 100 thousand other galaxies in the known universe. It has been estimated that there are some 30 billion planets in the Milky Way alone, any one of 100 million of which likely has an Earth-like atmosphere capable of supporting life. The number of likely life supporting planets in the Universe is 30 billion times 100 billion - a number so astronomical that there isn't even a name for it. It's quite probable, therefore, that life exists somewhere other than here.

Then there's the question of time. The universe came into being 13.5 billion years ago. Humans developed a mere five million years ago. In other words, we have only existed for 0.000036% of the time that the universe existed. Astronomers estimate that the Sun is going to burn itself out in about another 5 billion years. So, assuming that the planet doesn't become uninhabitable before then, or that some life ending catastrophe, like the asteroid that ended the dinosaurs, or a solar megaflare,or some other mass extinction event doesn't beat the sun to it, when it explodes, and incinerates all of the inner planets, then, unless we have figured out a way to reach the stars, and colonise beyond our solar system, the entire length of human existence will be a whopping 0.0014% of that of the known universe.

How plausible is it, then, that some creator made this entire cosmic machinery solely for the benefit of our puny little species, which exists for mere moments in cosmic history, and are a nearly infinitesimally tiny little speck in the whole of the universe. Just how grandiose, and delusional must humanity's over-blown sense of self-importance be to be so out of sync with the known dimensions of time, and space?

Can you name anything in the universe that is more rare and more complex than consciousness?

We have no idea how rare or common consciousness is. Animals of all kinds have a consciousness, though how advanced and self ware they are is not yet full gaged. Any living thing that feels pain or reacts to stimuli has some innate sense of self and a sense of self preservation, a consciousness of sorts. Even plants react to cold, sun, water, etc. and move in response to the outside world.
A rock however.................. scientist are still test that as far as I know.

There are billions of galaxies and billions upon billions of solar systems and planets around them. Conscious life might even exist in deep space or in vibrations and energy itself. In a technical sense it might be very common, but not quite in the way you think of your own consciousness.

Mankind or something like us might also be relatively common. Our know system is a speck on a piece of sand, think of how much sand above and below the water there is on this planet alone.

In the universe we might be as self aware and advance as an ant is to us, or probably less. Our solar system is not so old so we are likely infants to the rest of this universe, and we have no idea how old or how many others there might be. We can't even know much beyond our own galaxy, and most of that is just theory for now.

As for a higher power, that could just as well be someone visiting or mental projection through time and space. Superior but hardly the creator of all. An older uncle of sorts watching us grow up via video or images posted on a sort of universal instagram. That does not make it god/creator of all life of any sort, just another life form somewhere out there.

A parent might have created you but we are not the creators of the planet or all life. Life existed for millions of years, here, and we have only existed for a fraction of time.

If god is an easy answer for you and you want no other, fine. It is a pacifier to a child. You can stay in your little illusion of the life, your life. Some want to open the door, step outside and explore beyond this world or even this universe. To a child their parents might seem as gods till they learn more.

Can you name anything in the universe that is more rare and more complex than consciousness?

True intelligence and curiosity for facts...............and least on some forums

 

[westwall]

One of our regular theists wants to talk about the universe, as if that universe is, somehow, evidence of a "Creator". So, let's talk about the universe a little bit, shall we?

• Our insignificant place in the Universe.

Our Sun is an unremarkable star, in a boring little solar system, at the ass-end of a mediocre galaxy which is completely unremarkable among the 100 thousand other galaxies in the known universe. It has been estimated that there are some 30 billion planets in the Milky Way alone, any one of 100 million of which likely has an Earth-like atmosphere capable of supporting life. The number of likely life supporting planets in the Universe is 30 billion times 100 billion - a number so astronomical that there isn't even a name for it. It's quite probable, therefore, that life exists somewhere other than here.

Then there's the question of time. The universe came into being 13.5 billion years ago. Humans developed a mere five million years ago. In other words, we have only existed for 0.000036% of the time that the universe existed. Astronomers estimate that the Sun is going to burn itself out in about another 5 billion years. So, assuming that the planet doesn't become uninhabitable before then, or that some life ending catastrophe, like the asteroid that ended the dinosaurs, or a solar megaflare,or some other mass extinction event doesn't beat the sun to it, when it explodes, and incinerates all of the inner planets, then, unless we have figured out a way to reach the stars, and colonise beyond our solar system, the entire length of human existence will be a whopping 0.0014% of that of the known universe.

How plausible is it, then, that some creator made this entire cosmic machinery solely for the benefit of our puny little species, which exists for mere moments in cosmic history, and are a nearly infinitesimally tiny little speck in the whole of the universe. Just how grandiose, and delusional must humanity's over-blown sense of self-importance be to be so out of sync with the known dimensions of time, and space?

Cosmologists tell us that everything that exists in the Universe sprang into being in a massive explosion called the Big Bang. Before the bang there was nothing. Absolutely nothing. Then, suddenly, all the matter in the entire Universe sprang forth from a Singularity the size of a proton, in other words, one half of an atom.

How is that any different from "In the beginning there was nothing"?

 

[ding]

One of our regular theists wants to talk about the universe, as if that universe is, somehow, evidence of a "Creator". So, let's talk about the universe a little bit, shall we?

• Our insignificant place in the Universe.

Our Sun is an unremarkable star, in a boring little solar system, at the ass-end of a mediocre galaxy which is completely unremarkable among the 100 thousand other galaxies in the known universe. It has been estimated that there are some 30 billion planets in the Milky Way alone, any one of 100 million of which likely has an Earth-like atmosphere capable of supporting life. The number of likely life supporting planets in the Universe is 30 billion times 100 billion - a number so astronomical that there isn't even a name for it. It's quite probable, therefore, that life exists somewhere other than here.

Then there's the question of time. The universe came into being 13.5 billion years ago. Humans developed a mere five million years ago. In other words, we have only existed for 0.000036% of the time that the universe existed. Astronomers estimate that the Sun is going to burn itself out in about another 5 billion years. So, assuming that the planet doesn't become uninhabitable before then, or that some life ending catastrophe, like the asteroid that ended the dinosaurs, or a solar megaflare,or some other mass extinction event doesn't beat the sun to it, when it explodes, and incinerates all of the inner planets, then, unless we have figured out a way to reach the stars, and colonise beyond our solar system, the entire length of human existence will be a whopping 0.0014% of that of the known universe.

How plausible is it, then, that some creator made this entire cosmic machinery solely for the benefit of our puny little species, which exists for mere moments in cosmic history, and are a nearly infinitesimally tiny little speck in the whole of the universe. Just how grandiose, and delusional must humanity's over-blown sense of self-importance be to be so out of sync with the known dimensions of time, and space?

Can you name anything in the universe that is more rare and more complex than consciousness?

We have no idea how rare or common consciousness is. Animals of all kinds have a consciousness, though how advanced and self ware they are is not yet full gaged. Any living thing that feels pain or reacts to stimuli has some innate sense of self and a sense of self preservation, a consciousness of sorts. Even plants react to cold, sun, water, etc. and move in response to the outside world.
A rock however.................. scientist are still test that as far as I know.

There are billions of galaxies and billions upon billions of solar systems and planets around them. Conscious life might even exist in deep space or in vibrations and energy itself. In a technical sense it might be very common, but not quite in the way you think of your own consciousness.

Mankind or something like us might also be relatively common. Our know system is a speck on a piece of sand, think of how much sand above and below the water there is on this planet alone.

In the universe we might be as self aware and advance as an ant is to us, or probably less. Our solar system is not so old so we are likely infants to the rest of this universe, and we have no idea how old or how many others there might be. We can't even know much beyond our own galaxy, and most of that is just theory for now.

As for a higher power, that could just as well be someone visiting or mental projection through time and space. Superior but hardly the creator of all. An older uncle of sorts watching us grow up via video or images posted on a sort of universal instagram. That does not make it god/creator of all life of any sort, just another life form somewhere out there.

A parent might have created you but we are not the creators of the planet or all life. Life existed for millions of years, here, and we have only existed for a fraction of time.

If god is an easy answer for you and you want no other, fine. It is a pacifier to a child. You can stay in your little illusion of the life, your life. Some want to open the door, step outside and explore beyond this world or even this universe. To a child their parents might seem as gods till they learn more.

Can you name anything in the universe that is more rare and more complex than consciousness?

True intelligence and curiosity for facts...............and least on some forums

Absolutely. It is a fact that there is nothing in the universe which is more rare and more complex than consciousness. I am curious if you can be honest about this.

 

[BreezeWood]

One of our regular theists wants to talk about the universe, as if that universe is, somehow, evidence of a "Creator". So, let's talk about the universe a little bit, shall we?

• Our insignificant place in the Universe.

Our Sun is an unremarkable star, in a boring little solar system, at the ass-end of a mediocre galaxy which is completely unremarkable among the 100 thousand other galaxies in the known universe. It has been estimated that there are some 30 billion planets in the Milky Way alone, any one of 100 million of which likely has an Earth-like atmosphere capable of supporting life. The number of likely life supporting planets in the Universe is 30 billion times 100 billion - a number so astronomical that there isn't even a name for it. It's quite probable, therefore, that life exists somewhere other than here.

Then there's the question of time. The universe came into being 13.5 billion years ago. Humans developed a mere five million years ago. In other words, we have only existed for 0.000036% of the time that the universe existed. Astronomers estimate that the Sun is going to burn itself out in about another 5 billion years. So, assuming that the planet doesn't become uninhabitable before then, or that some life ending catastrophe, like the asteroid that ended the dinosaurs, or a solar megaflare,or some other mass extinction event doesn't beat the sun to it, when it explodes, and incinerates all of the inner planets, then, unless we have figured out a way to reach the stars, and colonise beyond our solar system, the entire length of human existence will be a whopping 0.0014% of that of the known universe.

How plausible is it, then, that some creator made this entire cosmic machinery solely for the benefit of our puny little species, which exists for mere moments in cosmic history, and are a nearly infinitesimally tiny little speck in the whole of the universe. Just how grandiose, and delusional must humanity's over-blown sense of self-importance be to be so out of sync with the known dimensions of time, and space?

Can you name anything in the universe that is more rare and more complex than consciousness?

We have no idea how rare or common consciousness is. Animals of all kinds have a consciousness, though how advanced and self ware they are is not yet full gaged. Any living thing that feels pain or reacts to stimuli has some innate sense of self and a sense of self preservation, a consciousness of sorts. Even plants react to cold, sun, water, etc. and move in response to the outside world.
A rock however.................. scientist are still test that as far as I know.

There are billions of galaxies and billions upon billions of solar systems and planets around them. Conscious life might even exist in deep space or in vibrations and energy itself. In a technical sense it might be very common, but not quite in the way you think of your own consciousness.

Mankind or something like us might also be relatively common. Our know system is a speck on a piece of sand, think of how much sand above and below the water there is on this planet alone.

In the universe we might be as self aware and advance as an ant is to us, or probably less. Our solar system is not so old so we are likely infants to the rest of this universe, and we have no idea how old or how many others there might be. We can't even know much beyond our own galaxy, and most of that is just theory for now.

As for a higher power, that could just as well be someone visiting or mental projection through time and space. Superior but hardly the creator of all. An older uncle of sorts watching us grow up via video or images posted on a sort of universal instagram. That does not make it god/creator of all life of any sort, just another life form somewhere out there.

A parent might have created you but we are not the creators of the planet or all life. Life existed for millions of years, here, and we have only existed for a fraction of time.

If god is an easy answer for you and you want no other, fine. It is a pacifier to a child. You can stay in your little illusion of the life, your life. Some want to open the door, step outside and explore beyond this world or even this universe. To a child their parents might seem as gods till they learn more.

.

Animals of all kinds have a consciousness,

Absolutely. It is a fact that there is nothing in the universe which is more rare and more complex than consciousness. I am curious if you can be honest about this.

ask him (bing) if he is a defoliated vegitarian ...

.

 

[ding]

One of our regular theists wants to talk about the universe, as if that universe is, somehow, evidence of a "Creator". So, let's talk about the universe a little bit, shall we?

• Our insignificant place in the Universe.

Our Sun is an unremarkable star, in a boring little solar system, at the ass-end of a mediocre galaxy which is completely unremarkable among the 100 thousand other galaxies in the known universe. It has been estimated that there are some 30 billion planets in the Milky Way alone, any one of 100 million of which likely has an Earth-like atmosphere capable of supporting life. The number of likely life supporting planets in the Universe is 30 billion times 100 billion - a number so astronomical that there isn't even a name for it. It's quite probable, therefore, that life exists somewhere other than here.

Then there's the question of time. The universe came into being 13.5 billion years ago. Humans developed a mere five million years ago. In other words, we have only existed for 0.000036% of the time that the universe existed. Astronomers estimate that the Sun is going to burn itself out in about another 5 billion years. So, assuming that the planet doesn't become uninhabitable before then, or that some life ending catastrophe, like the asteroid that ended the dinosaurs, or a solar megaflare,or some other mass extinction event doesn't beat the sun to it, when it explodes, and incinerates all of the inner planets, then, unless we have figured out a way to reach the stars, and colonise beyond our solar system, the entire length of human existence will be a whopping 0.0014% of that of the known universe.

How plausible is it, then, that some creator made this entire cosmic machinery solely for the benefit of our puny little species, which exists for mere moments in cosmic history, and are a nearly infinitesimally tiny little speck in the whole of the universe. Just how grandiose, and delusional must humanity's over-blown sense of self-importance be to be so out of sync with the known dimensions of time, and space?

Can you name anything in the universe that is more rare and more complex than consciousness?

We have no idea how rare or common consciousness is. Animals of all kinds have a consciousness, though how advanced and self ware they are is not yet full gaged. Any living thing that feels pain or reacts to stimuli has some innate sense of self and a sense of self preservation, a consciousness of sorts. Even plants react to cold, sun, water, etc. and move in response to the outside world.
A rock however.................. scientist are still test that as far as I know.

There are billions of galaxies and billions upon billions of solar systems and planets around them. Conscious life might even exist in deep space or in vibrations and energy itself. In a technical sense it might be very common, but not quite in the way you think of your own consciousness.

Mankind or something like us might also be relatively common. Our know system is a speck on a piece of sand, think of how much sand above and below the water there is on this planet alone.

In the universe we might be as self aware and advance as an ant is to us, or probably less. Our solar system is not so old so we are likely infants to the rest of this universe, and we have no idea how old or how many others there might be. We can't even know much beyond our own galaxy, and most of that is just theory for now.

As for a higher power, that could just as well be someone visiting or mental projection through time and space. Superior but hardly the creator of all. An older uncle of sorts watching us grow up via video or images posted on a sort of universal instagram. That does not make it god/creator of all life of any sort, just another life form somewhere out there.

A parent might have created you but we are not the creators of the planet or all life. Life existed for millions of years, here, and we have only existed for a fraction of time.

If god is an easy answer for you and you want no other, fine. It is a pacifier to a child. You can stay in your little illusion of the life, your life. Some want to open the door, step outside and explore beyond this world or even this universe. To a child their parents might seem as gods till they learn more.

.

Animals of all kinds have a consciousness,

Absolutely. It is a fact that there is nothing in the universe which is more rare and more complex than consciousness. I am curious if you can be honest about this.

ask him (bing) if he is a defoliated vegitarian ...

.

I'd rather ask you if you are an atheist.

 

[Czernobog]

One of our regular theists wants to talk about the universe, as if that universe is, somehow, evidence of a "Creator". So, let's talk about the universe a little bit, shall we?

• Our insignificant place in the Universe.

Our Sun is an unremarkable star, in a boring little solar system, at the ass-end of a mediocre galaxy which is completely unremarkable among the 100 thousand other galaxies in the known universe. It has been estimated that there are some 30 billion planets in the Milky Way alone, any one of 100 million of which likely has an Earth-like atmosphere capable of supporting life. The number of likely life supporting planets in the Universe is 30 billion times 100 billion - a number so astronomical that there isn't even a name for it. It's quite probable, therefore, that life exists somewhere other than here.

Then there's the question of time. The universe came into being 13.5 billion years ago. Humans developed a mere five million years ago. In other words, we have only existed for 0.000036% of the time that the universe existed. Astronomers estimate that the Sun is going to burn itself out in about another 5 billion years. So, assuming that the planet doesn't become uninhabitable before then, or that some life ending catastrophe, like the asteroid that ended the dinosaurs, or a solar megaflare,or some other mass extinction event doesn't beat the sun to it, when it explodes, and incinerates all of the inner planets, then, unless we have figured out a way to reach the stars, and colonise beyond our solar system, the entire length of human existence will be a whopping 0.0014% of that of the known universe.

How plausible is it, then, that some creator made this entire cosmic machinery solely for the benefit of our puny little species, which exists for mere moments in cosmic history, and are a nearly infinitesimally tiny little speck in the whole of the universe. Just how grandiose, and delusional must humanity's over-blown sense of self-importance be to be so out of sync with the known dimensions of time, and space?

Can you name anything in the universe that is more rare and more complex than consciousness?

We have no idea how rare or common consciousness is. Animals of all kinds have a consciousness, though how advanced and self ware they are is not yet full gaged. Any living thing that feels pain or reacts to stimuli has some innate sense of self and a sense of self preservation, a consciousness of sorts. Even plants react to cold, sun, water, etc. and move in response to the outside world.
A rock however.................. scientist are still test that as far as I know.

There are billions of galaxies and billions upon billions of solar systems and planets around them. Conscious life might even exist in deep space or in vibrations and energy itself. In a technical sense it might be very common, but not quite in the way you think of your own consciousness.

Mankind or something like us might also be relatively common. Our know system is a speck on a piece of sand, think of how much sand above and below the water there is on this planet alone.

In the universe we might be as self aware and advance as an ant is to us, or probably less. Our solar system is not so old so we are likely infants to the rest of this universe, and we have no idea how old or how many others there might be. We can't even know much beyond our own galaxy, and most of that is just theory for now.

As for a higher power, that could just as well be someone visiting or mental projection through time and space. Superior but hardly the creator of all. An older uncle of sorts watching us grow up via video or images posted on a sort of universal instagram. That does not make it god/creator of all life of any sort, just another life form somewhere out there.

A parent might have created you but we are not the creators of the planet or all life. Life existed for millions of years, here, and we have only existed for a fraction of time.

If god is an easy answer for you and you want no other, fine. It is a pacifier to a child. You can stay in your little illusion of the life, your life. Some want to open the door, step outside and explore beyond this world or even this universe. To a child their parents might seem as gods till they learn more.

Can you name anything in the universe that is more rare and more complex than consciousness?

Certainly. Quarks, leptons, bosons. These things are so complex, and rare that we haven't even discovered a method to observe them, yet. All we can do is work out the mathematical equations to demonstrate their effects on the universe.

Consciousness? Pfft. Scores of animals on our own planet have evidence of that, and there is every reason to believe that in all the universe there are billions more.

Given the laws of probability, how is it that you can presume a Creator, for which there is no evidence, but , given the evidence that life occurred once in the universe, you cannot conceive the possibility that it did so again, elsewhere?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

 

[Czernobog]

One of our regular theists wants to talk about the universe, as if that universe is, somehow, evidence of a "Creator". So, let's talk about the universe a little bit, shall we?

• Our insignificant place in the Universe.

Our Sun is an unremarkable star, in a boring little solar system, at the ass-end of a mediocre galaxy which is completely unremarkable among the 100 thousand other galaxies in the known universe. It has been estimated that there are some 30 billion planets in the Milky Way alone, any one of 100 million of which likely has an Earth-like atmosphere capable of supporting life. The number of likely life supporting planets in the Universe is 30 billion times 100 billion - a number so astronomical that there isn't even a name for it. It's quite probable, therefore, that life exists somewhere other than here.

Then there's the question of time. The universe came into being 13.5 billion years ago. Humans developed a mere five million years ago. In other words, we have only existed for 0.000036% of the time that the universe existed. Astronomers estimate that the Sun is going to burn itself out in about another 5 billion years. So, assuming that the planet doesn't become uninhabitable before then, or that some life ending catastrophe, like the asteroid that ended the dinosaurs, or a solar megaflare,or some other mass extinction event doesn't beat the sun to it, when it explodes, and incinerates all of the inner planets, then, unless we have figured out a way to reach the stars, and colonise beyond our solar system, the entire length of human existence will be a whopping 0.0014% of that of the known universe.

How plausible is it, then, that some creator made this entire cosmic machinery solely for the benefit of our puny little species, which exists for mere moments in cosmic history, and are a nearly infinitesimally tiny little speck in the whole of the universe. Just how grandiose, and delusional must humanity's over-blown sense of self-importance be to be so out of sync with the known dimensions of time, and space?

Cosmologists tell us that everything that exists in the Universe sprang into being in a massive explosion called the Big Bang. Before the bang there was nothing. Absolutely nothing. Then, suddenly, all the matter in the entire Universe sprang forth from a Singularity the size of a proton, in other words, one half of an atom.

How is that any different from "In the beginning there was nothing"?

Actually that's not the current cosmological theory. The current cosmological theory suggests that the universe is an ever expanding, and retracting, self-contained cyclic system. As such there is no actual beginning, or end.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

 

[OZman]

Consciousness? Pfft.

 

[ding]

One of our regular theists wants to talk about the universe, as if that universe is, somehow, evidence of a "Creator". So, let's talk about the universe a little bit, shall we?

• Our insignificant place in the Universe.

Our Sun is an unremarkable star, in a boring little solar system, at the ass-end of a mediocre galaxy which is completely unremarkable among the 100 thousand other galaxies in the known universe. It has been estimated that there are some 30 billion planets in the Milky Way alone, any one of 100 million of which likely has an Earth-like atmosphere capable of supporting life. The number of likely life supporting planets in the Universe is 30 billion times 100 billion - a number so astronomical that there isn't even a name for it. It's quite probable, therefore, that life exists somewhere other than here.

Then there's the question of time. The universe came into being 13.5 billion years ago. Humans developed a mere five million years ago. In other words, we have only existed for 0.000036% of the time that the universe existed. Astronomers estimate that the Sun is going to burn itself out in about another 5 billion years. So, assuming that the planet doesn't become uninhabitable before then, or that some life ending catastrophe, like the asteroid that ended the dinosaurs, or a solar megaflare,or some other mass extinction event doesn't beat the sun to it, when it explodes, and incinerates all of the inner planets, then, unless we have figured out a way to reach the stars, and colonise beyond our solar system, the entire length of human existence will be a whopping 0.0014% of that of the known universe.

How plausible is it, then, that some creator made this entire cosmic machinery solely for the benefit of our puny little species, which exists for mere moments in cosmic history, and are a nearly infinitesimally tiny little speck in the whole of the universe. Just how grandiose, and delusional must humanity's over-blown sense of self-importance be to be so out of sync with the known dimensions of time, and space?

Can you name anything in the universe that is more rare and more complex than consciousness?

We have no idea how rare or common consciousness is. Animals of all kinds have a consciousness, though how advanced and self ware they are is not yet full gaged. Any living thing that feels pain or reacts to stimuli has some innate sense of self and a sense of self preservation, a consciousness of sorts. Even plants react to cold, sun, water, etc. and move in response to the outside world.
A rock however.................. scientist are still test that as far as I know.

There are billions of galaxies and billions upon billions of solar systems and planets around them. Conscious life might even exist in deep space or in vibrations and energy itself. In a technical sense it might be very common, but not quite in the way you think of your own consciousness.

Mankind or something like us might also be relatively common. Our know system is a speck on a piece of sand, think of how much sand above and below the water there is on this planet alone.

In the universe we might be as self aware and advance as an ant is to us, or probably less. Our solar system is not so old so we are likely infants to the rest of this universe, and we have no idea how old or how many others there might be. We can't even know much beyond our own galaxy, and most of that is just theory for now.

As for a higher power, that could just as well be someone visiting or mental projection through time and space. Superior but hardly the creator of all. An older uncle of sorts watching us grow up via video or images posted on a sort of universal instagram. That does not make it god/creator of all life of any sort, just another life form somewhere out there.

A parent might have created you but we are not the creators of the planet or all life. Life existed for millions of years, here, and we have only existed for a fraction of time.

If god is an easy answer for you and you want no other, fine. It is a pacifier to a child. You can stay in your little illusion of the life, your life. Some want to open the door, step outside and explore beyond this world or even this universe. To a child their parents might seem as gods till they learn more.

Can you name anything in the universe that is more rare and more complex than consciousness?

Certainly. Quarks, leptons, bosons. These things are so complex, and rare that we haven't even discovered a method to observe them, yet. All we can do is work out the mathematical equations to demonstrate their effects on the universe.

Consciousness? Pfft. Scores of animals on our own planet have evidence of that, and there is every reason to believe that in all the universe there are billions more.

Given the laws of probability, how is it that you can presume a Creator, for which there is no evidence, but , given the evidence that life occurred once in the universe, you cannot conceive the possibility that it did so again, elsewhere?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

No. Those ar not complex, they are elementary. Subatomic particles existed very early on in the formation of the universe. They exist everywhere as part of the nature of matter and energy. They are fundamental parts of all matter and energy. You are confusing our understanding of subatomic particles with the complexity of subatomic particles and erroneously inferring that subatomic particles are rare which has got to be the stupidest thing that has come out of your brain yet. It took more than 14 billion years for matter to evolve into beings which know and create. I dare say that we have a better understanding of subatomic particles than we do of consciousness which is wholly invisible to science.

You act like consciousness is an ordinary occurrence in the universe... like subatomic particles are, lol. You couldn't be further from the truth. We can't even find evidence of single cell living organisms anywhere else in the universe. Look at how hard you are denying science now. Where is your scientific proof that intelligent life or any life for that matter exists within the universe! Are you taking that on faith, lol?

I have explained to you a dozen times there is evidence of a Creator.... the universe itself is evidence of a Creator. Given the evidence that the universe behaves as a self referential system, you cannot conceive the possibility that it was created by a higher power?

 

[Fenton Lum]

One of our regular theists wants to talk about the universe, as if that universe is, somehow, evidence of a "Creator". So, let's talk about the universe a little bit, shall we?

• Our insignificant place in the Universe.

Our Sun is an unremarkable star, in a boring little solar system, at the ass-end of a mediocre galaxy which is completely unremarkable among the 100 thousand other galaxies in the known universe. It has been estimated that there are some 30 billion planets in the Milky Way alone, any one of 100 million of which likely has an Earth-like atmosphere capable of supporting life. The number of likely life supporting planets in the Universe is 30 billion times 100 billion - a number so astronomical that there isn't even a name for it. It's quite probable, therefore, that life exists somewhere other than here.

Then there's the question of time. The universe came into being 13.5 billion years ago. Humans developed a mere five million years ago. In other words, we have only existed for 0.000036% of the time that the universe existed. Astronomers estimate that the Sun is going to burn itself out in about another 5 billion years. So, assuming that the planet doesn't become uninhabitable before then, or that some life ending catastrophe, like the asteroid that ended the dinosaurs, or a solar megaflare,or some other mass extinction event doesn't beat the sun to it, when it explodes, and incinerates all of the inner planets, then, unless we have figured out a way to reach the stars, and colonise beyond our solar system, the entire length of human existence will be a whopping 0.0014% of that of the known universe.

How plausible is it, then, that some creator made this entire cosmic machinery solely for the benefit of our puny little species, which exists for mere moments in cosmic history, and are a nearly infinitesimally tiny little speck in the whole of the universe. Just how grandiose, and delusional must humanity's over-blown sense of self-importance be to be so out of sync with the known dimensions of time, and space?

Can you name anything in the universe that is more rare and more complex than consciousness?

We have no idea how rare or common consciousness is. Animals of all kinds have a consciousness, though how advanced and self ware they are is not yet full gaged. Any living thing that feels pain or reacts to stimuli has some innate sense of self and a sense of self preservation, a consciousness of sorts. Even plants react to cold, sun, water, etc. and move in response to the outside world.
A rock however.................. scientist are still test that as far as I know.

There are billions of galaxies and billions upon billions of solar systems and planets around them. Conscious life might even exist in deep space or in vibrations and energy itself. In a technical sense it might be very common, but not quite in the way you think of your own consciousness.

Mankind or something like us might also be relatively common. Our know system is a speck on a piece of sand, think of how much sand above and below the water there is on this planet alone.

In the universe we might be as self aware and advance as an ant is to us, or probably less. Our solar system is not so old so we are likely infants to the rest of this universe, and we have no idea how old or how many others there might be. We can't even know much beyond our own galaxy, and most of that is just theory for now.

As for a higher power, that could just as well be someone visiting or mental projection through time and space. Superior but hardly the creator of all. An older uncle of sorts watching us grow up via video or images posted on a sort of universal instagram. That does not make it god/creator of all life of any sort, just another life form somewhere out there.

A parent might have created you but we are not the creators of the planet or all life. Life existed for millions of years, here, and we have only existed for a fraction of time.

If god is an easy answer for you and you want no other, fine. It is a pacifier to a child. You can stay in your little illusion of the life, your life. Some want to open the door, step outside and explore beyond this world or even this universe. To a child their parents might seem as gods till they learn more.

Can you name anything in the universe that is more rare and more complex than consciousness?

True intelligence and curiosity for facts...............and least on some forums

Absolutely. It is a fact that there is nothing in the universe which is more rare and more complex than consciousness. I am curious if you can be honest about this.

Which of course always means agreeing with whatever corner you pontificate yourself into.

 

[Fenton Lum]

One of our regular theists wants to talk about the universe, as if that universe is, somehow, evidence of a "Creator". So, let's talk about the universe a little bit, shall we?

• Our insignificant place in the Universe.

Our Sun is an unremarkable star, in a boring little solar system, at the ass-end of a mediocre galaxy which is completely unremarkable among the 100 thousand other galaxies in the known universe. It has been estimated that there are some 30 billion planets in the Milky Way alone, any one of 100 million of which likely has an Earth-like atmosphere capable of supporting life. The number of likely life supporting planets in the Universe is 30 billion times 100 billion - a number so astronomical that there isn't even a name for it. It's quite probable, therefore, that life exists somewhere other than here.

Then there's the question of time. The universe came into being 13.5 billion years ago. Humans developed a mere five million years ago. In other words, we have only existed for 0.000036% of the time that the universe existed. Astronomers estimate that the Sun is going to burn itself out in about another 5 billion years. So, assuming that the planet doesn't become uninhabitable before then, or that some life ending catastrophe, like the asteroid that ended the dinosaurs, or a solar megaflare,or some other mass extinction event doesn't beat the sun to it, when it explodes, and incinerates all of the inner planets, then, unless we have figured out a way to reach the stars, and colonise beyond our solar system, the entire length of human existence will be a whopping 0.0014% of that of the known universe.

How plausible is it, then, that some creator made this entire cosmic machinery solely for the benefit of our puny little species, which exists for mere moments in cosmic history, and are a nearly infinitesimally tiny little speck in the whole of the universe. Just how grandiose, and delusional must humanity's over-blown sense of self-importance be to be so out of sync with the known dimensions of time, and space?

Can you name anything in the universe that is more rare and more complex than consciousness?

We have no idea how rare or common consciousness is. Animals of all kinds have a consciousness, though how advanced and self ware they are is not yet full gaged. Any living thing that feels pain or reacts to stimuli has some innate sense of self and a sense of self preservation, a consciousness of sorts. Even plants react to cold, sun, water, etc. and move in response to the outside world.
A rock however.................. scientist are still test that as far as I know.

There are billions of galaxies and billions upon billions of solar systems and planets around them. Conscious life might even exist in deep space or in vibrations and energy itself. In a technical sense it might be very common, but not quite in the way you think of your own consciousness.

Mankind or something like us might also be relatively common. Our know system is a speck on a piece of sand, think of how much sand above and below the water there is on this planet alone.

In the universe we might be as self aware and advance as an ant is to us, or probably less. Our solar system is not so old so we are likely infants to the rest of this universe, and we have no idea how old or how many others there might be. We can't even know much beyond our own galaxy, and most of that is just theory for now.

As for a higher power, that could just as well be someone visiting or mental projection through time and space. Superior but hardly the creator of all. An older uncle of sorts watching us grow up via video or images posted on a sort of universal instagram. That does not make it god/creator of all life of any sort, just another life form somewhere out there.

A parent might have created you but we are not the creators of the planet or all life. Life existed for millions of years, here, and we have only existed for a fraction of time.

If god is an easy answer for you and you want no other, fine. It is a pacifier to a child. You can stay in your little illusion of the life, your life. Some want to open the door, step outside and explore beyond this world or even this universe. To a child their parents might seem as gods till they learn more.

Can you name anything in the universe that is more rare and more complex than consciousness?

Certainly. Quarks, leptons, bosons. These things are so complex, and rare that we haven't even discovered a method to observe them, yet. All we can do is work out the mathematical equations to demonstrate their effects on the universe.

Consciousness? Pfft. Scores of animals on our own planet have evidence of that, and there is every reason to believe that in all the universe there are billions more.

Given the laws of probability, how is it that you can presume a Creator, for which there is no evidence, but , given the evidence that life occurred once in the universe, you cannot conceive the possibility that it did so again, elsewhere?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

No. Those ar not complex, they are elementary. Subatomic particles existed very early on in the formation of the universe. They exist everywhere as part of the nature of matter and energy. They are fundamental parts of all matter and energy. You are confusing our understanding of subatomic particles with the complexity of subatomic particles and erroneously inferring that subatomic particles are rare which has got to be the stupidest thing that has come out of your brain yet. It took more than 14 billion years for matter to evolve into beings which know and create. I dare say that we have a better understanding of subatomic particles than we do of consciousness which is wholly invisible to science.

You act like consciousness is an ordinary occurrence in the universe... like subatomic particles are, lol. You couldn't be further from the truth. We can't even find evidence of single cell living organisms anywhere else in the universe. Look at how hard you are denying science now. Where is your scientific proof that intelligent life or any life for that matter exists within the universe! Are you taking that on faith, lol?

I have explained to you a dozen times there is evidence of a Creator.... the universe itself is evidence of a Creator. Given the evidence that the universe behaves as a self referential system, you cannot conceive the possibility that it was created by a higher power?

You can have your male dominator god perceptual reality. Others on a spiritual path may not evision the creator in human form. Still others may envision no creator. All spiritual journey's are personal journeys totally divorced from requiring your approval for any of it.

 

[Fenton Lum]

One of our regular theists wants to talk about the universe, as if that universe is, somehow, evidence of a "Creator". So, let's talk about the universe a little bit, shall we?

• Our insignificant place in the Universe.

Our Sun is an unremarkable star, in a boring little solar system, at the ass-end of a mediocre galaxy which is completely unremarkable among the 100 thousand other galaxies in the known universe. It has been estimated that there are some 30 billion planets in the Milky Way alone, any one of 100 million of which likely has an Earth-like atmosphere capable of supporting life. The number of likely life supporting planets in the Universe is 30 billion times 100 billion - a number so astronomical that there isn't even a name for it. It's quite probable, therefore, that life exists somewhere other than here.

Then there's the question of time. The universe came into being 13.5 billion years ago. Humans developed a mere five million years ago. In other words, we have only existed for 0.000036% of the time that the universe existed. Astronomers estimate that the Sun is going to burn itself out in about another 5 billion years. So, assuming that the planet doesn't become uninhabitable before then, or that some life ending catastrophe, like the asteroid that ended the dinosaurs, or a solar megaflare,or some other mass extinction event doesn't beat the sun to it, when it explodes, and incinerates all of the inner planets, then, unless we have figured out a way to reach the stars, and colonise beyond our solar system, the entire length of human existence will be a whopping 0.0014% of that of the known universe.

How plausible is it, then, that some creator made this entire cosmic machinery solely for the benefit of our puny little species, which exists for mere moments in cosmic history, and are a nearly infinitesimally tiny little speck in the whole of the universe. Just how grandiose, and delusional must humanity's over-blown sense of self-importance be to be so out of sync with the known dimensions of time, and space?

Can you name anything in the universe that is more rare and more complex than consciousness?

We're still attempting to determine whether you actually are conscious.

Can you name anything in the universe that is more rare and more complex than consciousness?

I think aris2chat has responded quite well, I have nothing to add to that, thanks.

 

[BreezeWood]

One of our regular theists wants to talk about the universe, as if that universe is, somehow, evidence of a "Creator". So, let's talk about the universe a little bit, shall we?

• Our insignificant place in the Universe.

Our Sun is an unremarkable star, in a boring little solar system, at the ass-end of a mediocre galaxy which is completely unremarkable among the 100 thousand other galaxies in the known universe. It has been estimated that there are some 30 billion planets in the Milky Way alone, any one of 100 million of which likely has an Earth-like atmosphere capable of supporting life. The number of likely life supporting planets in the Universe is 30 billion times 100 billion - a number so astronomical that there isn't even a name for it. It's quite probable, therefore, that life exists somewhere other than here.

Then there's the question of time. The universe came into being 13.5 billion years ago. Humans developed a mere five million years ago. In other words, we have only existed for 0.000036% of the time that the universe existed. Astronomers estimate that the Sun is going to burn itself out in about another 5 billion years. So, assuming that the planet doesn't become uninhabitable before then, or that some life ending catastrophe, like the asteroid that ended the dinosaurs, or a solar megaflare,or some other mass extinction event doesn't beat the sun to it, when it explodes, and incinerates all of the inner planets, then, unless we have figured out a way to reach the stars, and colonise beyond our solar system, the entire length of human existence will be a whopping 0.0014% of that of the known universe.

How plausible is it, then, that some creator made this entire cosmic machinery solely for the benefit of our puny little species, which exists for mere moments in cosmic history, and are a nearly infinitesimally tiny little speck in the whole of the universe. Just how grandiose, and delusional must humanity's over-blown sense of self-importance be to be so out of sync with the known dimensions of time, and space?

Can you name anything in the universe that is more rare and more complex than consciousness?

We have no idea how rare or common consciousness is. Animals of all kinds have a consciousness, though how advanced and self ware they are is not yet full gaged. Any living thing that feels pain or reacts to stimuli has some innate sense of self and a sense of self preservation, a consciousness of sorts. Even plants react to cold, sun, water, etc. and move in response to the outside world.
A rock however.................. scientist are still test that as far as I know.

There are billions of galaxies and billions upon billions of solar systems and planets around them. Conscious life might even exist in deep space or in vibrations and energy itself. In a technical sense it might be very common, but not quite in the way you think of your own consciousness.

Mankind or something like us might also be relatively common. Our know system is a speck on a piece of sand, think of how much sand above and below the water there is on this planet alone.

In the universe we might be as self aware and advance as an ant is to us, or probably less. Our solar system is not so old so we are likely infants to the rest of this universe, and we have no idea how old or how many others there might be. We can't even know much beyond our own galaxy, and most of that is just theory for now.

As for a higher power, that could just as well be someone visiting or mental projection through time and space. Superior but hardly the creator of all. An older uncle of sorts watching us grow up via video or images posted on a sort of universal instagram. That does not make it god/creator of all life of any sort, just another life form somewhere out there.

A parent might have created you but we are not the creators of the planet or all life. Life existed for millions of years, here, and we have only existed for a fraction of time.

If god is an easy answer for you and you want no other, fine. It is a pacifier to a child. You can stay in your little illusion of the life, your life. Some want to open the door, step outside and explore beyond this world or even this universe. To a child their parents might seem as gods till they learn more.

Can you name anything in the universe that is more rare and more complex than consciousness?

Certainly. Quarks, leptons, bosons. These things are so complex, and rare that we haven't even discovered a method to observe them, yet. All we can do is work out the mathematical equations to demonstrate their effects on the universe.

Consciousness? Pfft. Scores of animals on our own planet have evidence of that, and there is every reason to believe that in all the universe there are billions more.

Given the laws of probability, how is it that you can presume a Creator, for which there is no evidence, but , given the evidence that life occurred once in the universe, you cannot conceive the possibility that it did so again, elsewhere?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

.

Consciousness? Pfft. Scores of animals on our own planet have evidence of that, and there is every reason to believe that in all the universe there are billions more.

why so few include Flora as conscious beings is a first example of their delineation from the natural world.

not to mention an example of consciousness without a CNS (central nervous system) ...

.