Nobel Prize For Palestinian Hero?

[Coyote]

- ok, so you are claiming only those arrested and prosecuted committed crimes? Seriously? Begin was a commander of Irgun, a terrorist paramilitary group. Their actions like those of Hamas, are a matter of record particularly when they claimed credit.

ISIS has committed many atrocities and murders. Few, if any, of their commanders have been brought to justice. Therefore, according to your logic, ISIS hasn't committed those crimes. Really now?

Neither Begin nor Mandella renounced the use of violence.

Yes under any civilised nations laws that is the case, otherwise I could accuse you of raping and murdering children and you would be stigmatised for the rest of your life.

True.

Not at all the authorities are waiting until they are in a position to arrest the criminals and then they will be tried. Does not mean they have not committed the crimes at all. In the case of Begin he could have been arrested and tried many times and the British did nothing. Could it be they had something to hide from the world, like the mass murder of 10's of 1000's of Jews fleeing Europe and the Nazi's ?

He was never captured. That does not mean he wasn't guilty. Just like ISIS. Just like Hamas. He was the commander of Irgun and as a result, responsible for ordering what they did - just like a Hamas commander. If the British mass murdered Jews, that doesn't make Begin's actions any less horrific nor does it justify them. They are civilian targets.

The targets were those that were attacking the Jews in Palestine, not civilians. Like the arab muslims action on the orders of the grand mufti or the British establishment sending thousands of Jews to their deaths. I am ashamed of my nations past history in the M.E. and other places when they killed thousands for no other reason than they were a different culture or religion.
So how is Begin guilty of the deaths caused by defence of the Jewish people and not the Palestinians that do the same thing. Or for that matter you who defends the actions of the Palestinians when they attack Jewish women and children., and don't say you don't as the evidence is on this board.

You are on very thin ice here - you are essentially justifying Palestinian targeting of civilians.

Some of Irgun's attacks during Begin's commandership:

1946, October 31 Bombing of the British Embassy in Rome. Nearly half the building was destroyed and 3 people were injured.
1947, December 12 20 killed, 5 wounded by barrel bomb at Damascus Gate.
1947, December 16(ca) 10 killed by bomb at Noga Cinema in Jaffa.
1948, January 7 20 Arabs killed by bomb at Jaffa Gate.

These were civilian targets much like the targets Hamas chooses.

Bombs, especially barrel bombs are indiscriminate and designed to do as much damage to human flesh as possible.

So a link to a link of a link to wikipedia is now the only evidence that is true. Would your claim stand up in a court of law ?

Where is the supporting evidence to show that the Jews did the killings ?

Suddenly you don't like wiki even though you've used it?

Here are more sources:
St. Petersburg Times - Google News Archive Search
The Vancouver Sun - Google News Archive Search

There are more, you can look them up. Quite often, they took credit for it

And if you bother to look the vast majority were actions against attacks on the Jews by arab muslim terrorists.

They happened during the civil war instituted by the arab muslims in 1947/1948 or the arab revolt of 1937/1939.

They were not premeditated mass murders as you are trying to claim, but responces to armed attacks.

Quite a few were aimed at civilian targets. Cinimas, open areas where civilians congregated. Really, you need to stop trying to make excuses for terrorism

 

[Coyote]

Speaking of baseless, you seem desperate to run the typical Arab Muslim hasbara up the flag pole but consistently provide zero evidence to support your views.

So why should an Arab Muslim terrorist be awarded instead of fried ?

I have been watching this creature for many years, as this is not the only board I have encountered her. She is absolutely relentless and dogged in her pattern of dishonesty, always focusing on advancing an Islamist agenda and always focusing on attacks on Jews. Unlike somebody like Odium, however, who is at least straightforward and honest in his views, Coyote offers up these reams of hatred while also denying she is doing so. As long as something involves dead Jews, she will find ways to defend it. She always has and she always will.


There is a certain psychological profile that is attracted to antisemitic themes, and Arab propagandists have crafted their rhetoric to appeal to these dysfunctional individuals. Since antisemitic canards always focus on Jews as rich, powerful, conniving and secretive, it attracts those who lack a sense of self-worth. In seeking a source for their own lack of accomplishment, it becomes all too easy to blame Jews, and in the worst cases, this blaming takes the form of an obsessive campaign to destroy them. These sick individuals actually imagine themselves as being champions of justice in their persecution.

Losers looking for a cause with which to elevate their sense of purpose in life don't need to justify WHAT they are championing, as their need to feel themselves a champion is all that matters. That is why we are all dealing with all this enormous double speak involving the pressing forth of a truly repulsive agenda coupled with the immediate denial of what that agenda happens to be.

I think you have some issues...just saying. They psychological term is "projection". Given that you heroize an anti-semite who tortured live animals on stage - it's not surprising. Now, let's move past your your fecal dump on this thread and discuss the topic - something your post is missing.

I've provided plenty of "evidence" to support my views, which are this (and I've said it several times): There is no reason not to nominate him, given the credentials of past nominees. The Nobel Peace Prize is not a "Mother Theresa Prize" - the nominees don't have to be "nice" people or even "good" people, or have led exemplary lives - they just needed to have done something significant towards peace (though, it's become a bit of a farce given some nominations). Saying there is no reason to nominate him, isn't the same as saying he deserves to win it - we have yet to see what he has done to contribute to peace in more depth than has been provided.

If you are going to take another dump in this thread, let me know so I can bring my waders.

There is no projection here, nor do I idolize any anybody for killing animals on stage.

....She claims while taking a dump.

Your hero: Edison Publicly Tortured Animals To Discredit AC Power

You posting pattern is clear, and you are clearly so wrapped up in championing Islamist terrorists that you have completely lost any ability to reason -- even if you did have any to begin with.

Nominating a dedicated mass murder for his desire to murder en masse' is so beyond the pale that only a complete piece of human excrement would suggest it should even be considered.

Woah, yet another blatant Dogma lie. Who is nominating someone for "his desire to murder en masse"? Really now? I was pretty clear, even someone with a low level of comprehension should be able to understand what I said.

This is your big chance Dogma...got a link to support that lie? I doubt it, as it is typical of your distortions. Now run away again.

 

[Boston1]

Neither Begin nor Mandella were serving five life sentences for murdering civilians

Begin was never caught and prosecuted for his crimes. Does that mean his murders deserve a free pass?

What murders ? There were no investigations, no convictions, no evidence to suggest he murdered anyone.

The fact is he was defending against Arab Muslim aggression. ;--) Remember the Arab Muslims declared they would wipe out every Israeli from the river to the sea. Yeah, not happening

Ok..then, using your logic, there is no evidence to suggest ISIS has murdered most of the people attributed to them.

LMAO

Say, since there aren't any Arab Muslim hero's sitting in Israeli prisons can we get the title of this thread changed to Can you Believe Arab Muslim Terrorist are Trying to Run Another Terrorist up the Flag Pole.

There are a whole lot of ISIS commanders who have yet to be caught and brought to justice, therefore, according to you there is no evidence that they committed any crime

NO, according to me there is no conviction after a careful review of the evidence in a court of law.

On the other hand we most certainly have a conviction in a court of law which determined that the murderer and terrorist will be serving a few life sentences for targeting innocent woman and children

 

[Coyote]

Begin was never caught and prosecuted for his crimes. Does that mean his murders deserve a free pass?

What murders ? There were no investigations, no convictions, no evidence to suggest he murdered anyone.

The fact is he was defending against Arab Muslim aggression. ;--) Remember the Arab Muslims declared they would wipe out every Israeli from the river to the sea. Yeah, not happening

Ok..then, using your logic, there is no evidence to suggest ISIS has murdered most of the people attributed to them.

LMAO

Say, since there aren't any Arab Muslim hero's sitting in Israeli prisons can we get the title of this thread changed to Can you Believe Arab Muslim Terrorist are Trying to Run Another Terrorist up the Flag Pole.

There are a whole lot of ISIS commanders who have yet to be caught and brought to justice, therefore, according to you there is no evidence that they committed any crime

NO, according to me there is no conviction after a careful review of the evidence in a court of law.

On the other hand we most certainly have a conviction in a court of law which determined that the murderer and terrorist will be serving a few life sentences for targeting innocent woman and children

A conviction that may or may not be accurate given the nature of the conflict.

Lack of a conviction does not mean crimes did not occur particularly in areas where the rule of law is weak - many crimes never see the courts. What I do see is a lot of excusing and justifying Irgun's terrorism and Begin's role in it as it's Commander - something that is well recorded historically.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Speaking of baseless, you seem desperate to run the typical Arab Muslim hasbara up the flag pole but consistently provide zero evidence to support your views.

So why should an Arab Muslim terrorist be awarded instead of fried ?

I have been watching this creature for many years, as this is not the only board I have encountered her. She is absolutely relentless and dogged in her pattern of dishonesty, always focusing on advancing an Islamist agenda and always focusing on attacks on Jews. Unlike somebody like Odium, however, who is at least straightforward and honest in his views, Coyote offers up these reams of hatred while also denying she is doing so. As long as something involves dead Jews, she will find ways to defend it. She always has and she always will.


There is a certain psychological profile that is attracted to antisemitic themes, and Arab propagandists have crafted their rhetoric to appeal to these dysfunctional individuals. Since antisemitic canards always focus on Jews as rich, powerful, conniving and secretive, it attracts those who lack a sense of self-worth. In seeking a source for their own lack of accomplishment, it becomes all too easy to blame Jews, and in the worst cases, this blaming takes the form of an obsessive campaign to destroy them. These sick individuals actually imagine themselves as being champions of justice in their persecution.

Losers looking for a cause with which to elevate their sense of purpose in life don't need to justify WHAT they are championing, as their need to feel themselves a champion is all that matters. That is why we are all dealing with all this enormous double speak involving the pressing forth of a truly repulsive agenda coupled with the immediate denial of what that agenda happens to be.

I think you have some issues...just saying. They psychological term is "projection". Given that you heroize an anti-semite who tortured live animals on stage - it's not surprising. Now, let's move past your your fecal dump on this thread and discuss the topic - something your post is missing.

I've provided plenty of "evidence" to support my views, which are this (and I've said it several times): There is no reason not to nominate him, given the credentials of past nominees. The Nobel Peace Prize is not a "Mother Theresa Prize" - the nominees don't have to be "nice" people or even "good" people, or have led exemplary lives - they just needed to have done something significant towards peace (though, it's become a bit of a farce given some nominations). Saying there is no reason to nominate him, isn't the same as saying he deserves to win it - we have yet to see what he has done to contribute to peace in more depth than has been provided.

If you are going to take another dump in this thread, let me know so I can bring my waders.

There is no projection here, nor do I idolize any anybody for killing animals on stage.

....She claims while taking a dump.

Your hero: Edison Publicly Tortured Animals To Discredit AC Power

You posting pattern is clear, and you are clearly so wrapped up in championing Islamist terrorists that you have completely lost any ability to reason -- even if you did have any to begin with.

Nominating a dedicated mass murder for his desire to murder en masse' is so beyond the pale that only a complete piece of human excrement would suggest it should even be considered.

Woah, yet another blatant Dogma lie. Who is nominating someone for "his desire to murder en masse"? Really now? I was pretty clear, even someone with a low level of comprehension should be able to understand what I said.

This is your big chance Dogma...got a link to support that lie? I doubt it, as it is typical of your distortions. Now run away again.

Let's see here -- in the time I have been here, I mentioned edison once -- ONCE -- and that was within a context of scientists who have contributed much to our every day lives. I did not know he was an antisemite, I had no idea about the animal thing and he was mentioned along with other scientists.

In the same vein, you admire terrorists KNOWING they are terrorists, and defend genocidal organizations KNOWING they are genocidal. You admit that if your Pally killers had their way that they would exterminate as many Jews as possible and now you are asking disingenuously why one of the mass murderers you admire shouldn't be nominated for a peace prize.

The only question I have for you is this "At what Islamist Madrassa did you learn your craft?" You certainly never venture far from the playbook.

 

[Jroc]

Speaking of baseless, you seem desperate to run the typical Arab Muslim hasbara up the flag pole but consistently provide zero evidence to support your views.

So why should an Arab Muslim terrorist be awarded instead of fried ?

I have been watching this creature for many years, as this is not the only board I have encountered her. She is absolutely relentless and dogged in her pattern of dishonesty, always focusing on advancing an Islamist agenda and always focusing on attacks on Jews. Unlike somebody like Odium, however, who is at least straightforward and honest in his views, Coyote offers up these reams of hatred while also denying she is doing so. As long as something involves dead Jews, she will find ways to defend it. She always has and she always will.


There is a certain psychological profile that is attracted to antisemitic themes, and Arab propagandists have crafted their rhetoric to appeal to these dysfunctional individuals. Since antisemitic canards always focus on Jews as rich, powerful, conniving and secretive, it attracts those who lack a sense of self-worth. In seeking a source for their own lack of accomplishment, it becomes all too easy to blame Jews, and in the worst cases, this blaming takes the form of an obsessive campaign to destroy them. These sick individuals actually imagine themselves as being champions of justice in their persecution.

Losers looking for a cause with which to elevate their sense of purpose in life don't need to justify WHAT they are championing, as their need to feel themselves a champion is all that matters. That is why we are all dealing with all this enormous double speak involving the pressing forth of a truly repulsive agenda coupled with the immediate denial of what that agenda happens to be.

I think you have some issues...just saying. They psychological term is "projection". Given that you heroize an anti-semite who tortured live animals on stage - it's not surprising. Now, let's move past your your fecal dump on this thread and discuss the topic - something your post is missing.

I've provided plenty of "evidence" to support my views, which are this (and I've said it several times): There is no reason not to nominate him, given the credentials of past nominees. The Nobel Peace Prize is not a "Mother Theresa Prize" - the nominees don't have to be "nice" people or even "good" people, or have led exemplary lives - they just needed to have done something significant towards peace (though, it's become a bit of a farce given some nominations). Saying there is no reason to nominate him, isn't the same as saying he deserves to win it - we have yet to see what he has done to contribute to peace in more depth than has been provided.

If you are going to take another dump in this thread, let me know so I can bring my waders.

There is no projection here, nor do I idolize any anybody for killing animals on stage.

....She claims while taking a dump.

You posting pattern is clear, and you are clearly so wrapped up in championing Islamist terrorists that you have completely lost any ability to reason -- even if you did have any to begin with.

Nominating a dedicated mass murder for his desire to murder en masse' is so beyond the pale that only a complete piece of human excrement would suggest it should even be considered.

"Coyote's" early years...

 

[montelatici]

Begin was never caught and prosecuted for his crimes. Does that mean his murders deserve a free pass?

What murders ? There were no investigations, no convictions, no evidence to suggest he murdered anyone.

The fact is he was defending against Arab Muslim aggression. ;--) Remember the Arab Muslims declared they would wipe out every Israeli from the river to the sea. Yeah, not happening

Ok..then, using your logic, there is no evidence to suggest ISIS has murdered most of the people attributed to them.

LMAO

Say, since there aren't any Arab Muslim hero's sitting in Israeli prisons can we get the title of this thread changed to Can you Believe Arab Muslim Terrorist are Trying to Run Another Terrorist up the Flag Pole.

There are a whole lot of ISIS commanders who have yet to be caught and brought to justice, therefore, according to you there is no evidence that they committed any crime

NO, according to me there is no conviction after a careful review of the evidence in a court of law.

On the other hand we most certainly have a conviction in a court of law which determined that the murderer and terrorist will be serving a few life sentences for targeting innocent woman and children

Jew kangaroo court. No better than the court that convicted Mandela.

 

[Boston1]

Yes under any civilised nations laws that is the case, otherwise I could accuse you of raping and murdering children and you would be stigmatised for the rest of your life.

True.

Not at all the authorities are waiting until they are in a position to arrest the criminals and then they will be tried. Does not mean they have not committed the crimes at all. In the case of Begin he could have been arrested and tried many times and the British did nothing. Could it be they had something to hide from the world, like the mass murder of 10's of 1000's of Jews fleeing Europe and the Nazi's ?

He was never captured. That does not mean he wasn't guilty. Just like ISIS. Just like Hamas. He was the commander of Irgun and as a result, responsible for ordering what they did - just like a Hamas commander. If the British mass murdered Jews, that doesn't make Begin's actions any less horrific nor does it justify them. They are civilian targets.

The targets were those that were attacking the Jews in Palestine, not civilians. Like the arab muslims action on the orders of the grand mufti or the British establishment sending thousands of Jews to their deaths. I am ashamed of my nations past history in the M.E. and other places when they killed thousands for no other reason than they were a different culture or religion.
So how is Begin guilty of the deaths caused by defence of the Jewish people and not the Palestinians that do the same thing. Or for that matter you who defends the actions of the Palestinians when they attack Jewish women and children., and don't say you don't as the evidence is on this board.

You are on very thin ice here - you are essentially justifying Palestinian targeting of civilians.

Some of Irgun's attacks during Begin's commandership:

1946, October 31 Bombing of the British Embassy in Rome. Nearly half the building was destroyed and 3 people were injured.
1947, December 12 20 killed, 5 wounded by barrel bomb at Damascus Gate.
1947, December 16(ca) 10 killed by bomb at Noga Cinema in Jaffa.
1948, January 7 20 Arabs killed by bomb at Jaffa Gate.

These were civilian targets much like the targets Hamas chooses.

Bombs, especially barrel bombs are indiscriminate and designed to do as much damage to human flesh as possible.

So a link to a link of a link to wikipedia is now the only evidence that is true. Would your claim stand up in a court of law ?

Where is the supporting evidence to show that the Jews did the killings ?

Suddenly you don't like wiki even though you've used it?

Here are more sources:
St. Petersburg Times - Google News Archive Search
The Vancouver Sun - Google News Archive Search

There are more, you can look them up. Quite often, they took credit for it

And if you bother to look the vast majority were actions against attacks on the Jews by arab muslim terrorists.

They happened during the civil war instituted by the arab muslims in 1947/1948 or the arab revolt of 1937/1939.

They were not premeditated mass murders as you are trying to claim, but responces to armed attacks.

Quite a few were aimed at civilian targets. Cinimas, open areas where civilians congregated. Really, you need to stop trying to make excuses for terrorism

Care to get specific ;--)

What cinema ? What open area with civilians ?

 

[Boston1]

What murders ? There were no investigations, no convictions, no evidence to suggest he murdered anyone.

The fact is he was defending against Arab Muslim aggression. ;--) Remember the Arab Muslims declared they would wipe out every Israeli from the river to the sea. Yeah, not happening

Ok..then, using your logic, there is no evidence to suggest ISIS has murdered most of the people attributed to them.

LMAO

Say, since there aren't any Arab Muslim hero's sitting in Israeli prisons can we get the title of this thread changed to Can you Believe Arab Muslim Terrorist are Trying to Run Another Terrorist up the Flag Pole.

There are a whole lot of ISIS commanders who have yet to be caught and brought to justice, therefore, according to you there is no evidence that they committed any crime

NO, according to me there is no conviction after a careful review of the evidence in a court of law.

On the other hand we most certainly have a conviction in a court of law which determined that the murderer and terrorist will be serving a few life sentences for targeting innocent woman and children

A conviction that may or may not be accurate given the nature of the conflict.

Lack of a conviction does not mean crimes did not occur particularly in areas where the rule of law is weak - many crimes never see the courts. What I do see is a lot of excusing and justifying Irgun's terrorism and Begin's role in it as it's Commander - something that is well recorded historically.

Nonsense

If the best you can do is ramble on and on about an event, what, 70 years ago, then I think its fair to say you don't have much of a case.

The Issue today is a terrorist who was convicted of murder and unfortunately instead of frying is enjoying a nice peaceful life in a cushy Israeli prison. And you want to give him an award.

I call BS

Terrorists should not be awarded and Israel should immediately commute all life sentences to death and quit wasting all the money it takes to house and feed these jerks.

Terrorists do now deserve award let alone to be labelled as hero's.

 

[montelatici]

Begin the terrorist was awarded the Peace Prize.

By the way, do you even know what commuting a sentence means. Commuting a sentence means reducing a sentence it.

 

[Shusha]

I would respectfully implore my fellow Israel supporters to loudly and clearly condemn all attacks against innocent civilians in the absence of a valid military objective.

While the wiki article "List of Irgun attacks" includes many attacks which fail to provide enough information to judge, and at least some could be considered legitimate objectives, I would also implore them to wisely consider that Irgun certainly seemed to have committed at least a few attacks purely against civilians. We must not excuse this. We must acknowledge it and find it cause for regret and shame. Else we become no better than those we fight against.

 

[Coyote]

Speaking of baseless, you seem desperate to run the typical Arab Muslim hasbara up the flag pole but consistently provide zero evidence to support your views.

So why should an Arab Muslim terrorist be awarded instead of fried ?

I have been watching this creature for many years, as this is not the only board I have encountered her. She is absolutely relentless and dogged in her pattern of dishonesty, always focusing on advancing an Islamist agenda and always focusing on attacks on Jews. Unlike somebody like Odium, however, who is at least straightforward and honest in his views, Coyote offers up these reams of hatred while also denying she is doing so. As long as something involves dead Jews, she will find ways to defend it. She always has and she always will.


There is a certain psychological profile that is attracted to antisemitic themes, and Arab propagandists have crafted their rhetoric to appeal to these dysfunctional individuals. Since antisemitic canards always focus on Jews as rich, powerful, conniving and secretive, it attracts those who lack a sense of self-worth. In seeking a source for their own lack of accomplishment, it becomes all too easy to blame Jews, and in the worst cases, this blaming takes the form of an obsessive campaign to destroy them. These sick individuals actually imagine themselves as being champions of justice in their persecution.

Losers looking for a cause with which to elevate their sense of purpose in life don't need to justify WHAT they are championing, as their need to feel themselves a champion is all that matters. That is why we are all dealing with all this enormous double speak involving the pressing forth of a truly repulsive agenda coupled with the immediate denial of what that agenda happens to be.

I think you have some issues...just saying. They psychological term is "projection". Given that you heroize an anti-semite who tortured live animals on stage - it's not surprising. Now, let's move past your your fecal dump on this thread and discuss the topic - something your post is missing.

I've provided plenty of "evidence" to support my views, which are this (and I've said it several times): There is no reason not to nominate him, given the credentials of past nominees. The Nobel Peace Prize is not a "Mother Theresa Prize" - the nominees don't have to be "nice" people or even "good" people, or have led exemplary lives - they just needed to have done something significant towards peace (though, it's become a bit of a farce given some nominations). Saying there is no reason to nominate him, isn't the same as saying he deserves to win it - we have yet to see what he has done to contribute to peace in more depth than has been provided.

If you are going to take another dump in this thread, let me know so I can bring my waders.

There is no projection here, nor do I idolize any anybody for killing animals on stage.

....She claims while taking a dump.

Your hero: Edison Publicly Tortured Animals To Discredit AC Power

You posting pattern is clear, and you are clearly so wrapped up in championing Islamist terrorists that you have completely lost any ability to reason -- even if you did have any to begin with.

Nominating a dedicated mass murder for his desire to murder en masse' is so beyond the pale that only a complete piece of human excrement would suggest it should even be considered.

Woah, yet another blatant Dogma lie. Who is nominating someone for "his desire to murder en masse"? Really now? I was pretty clear, even someone with a low level of comprehension should be able to understand what I said.

This is your big chance Dogma...got a link to support that lie? I doubt it, as it is typical of your distortions. Now run away again.

Let's see here -- in the time I have been here, I mentioned edison once -- ONCE -- and that was within a context of scientists who have contributed much to our every day lives. I did not know he was an antisemite, I had no idea about the animal thing and he was mentioned along with other scientists.

You stated specifically - that this person who was anti-semitic, and who tortured animals on public stages - was one of your heros and now you are trying to weasel out of it? And now - SUDDENLY - context matters where it never did before? Too funny.

In the same vein, you admire terrorists KNOWING they are terrorists, and defend genocidal organizations KNOWING they are genocidal. You admit that if your Pally killers had their way that they would exterminate as many Jews as possible and now you are asking disingenuously why one of the mass murderers you admire shouldn't be nominated for a peace prize.

Link please? See, unlike your garbage - I CAN provide a link to your "hero".

The only question I have for you is this "At what Islamist Madrassa did you learn your craft?" You certainly never venture far from the playbook.

You've never been very good at discussing the issues have you? Your sole talent seems to be off topic personal vitriole and making shit up as you go along. You never provide links but I'll keep asking anyway.

I do not "admire" Marwan (not yet at any rate) - there is simply not enough information. I have stated, and will continue to state, that there is no reason not to nominate him in light of those who have been nominated before (which don't seem to bug you). I think what really bugs you is that he is a Palestinian.

 

[Coyote]

There is never ever ever a justification for targeting civilians - bombings in market places and cinemas or embassies...bus'...schools....public squares aimed to terrorize.

 

[Coyote]

True.

He was never captured. That does not mean he wasn't guilty. Just like ISIS. Just like Hamas. He was the commander of Irgun and as a result, responsible for ordering what they did - just like a Hamas commander. If the British mass murdered Jews, that doesn't make Begin's actions any less horrific nor does it justify them. They are civilian targets.

The targets were those that were attacking the Jews in Palestine, not civilians. Like the arab muslims action on the orders of the grand mufti or the British establishment sending thousands of Jews to their deaths. I am ashamed of my nations past history in the M.E. and other places when they killed thousands for no other reason than they were a different culture or religion.
So how is Begin guilty of the deaths caused by defence of the Jewish people and not the Palestinians that do the same thing. Or for that matter you who defends the actions of the Palestinians when they attack Jewish women and children., and don't say you don't as the evidence is on this board.

You are on very thin ice here - you are essentially justifying Palestinian targeting of civilians.

Some of Irgun's attacks during Begin's commandership:

1946, October 31 Bombing of the British Embassy in Rome. Nearly half the building was destroyed and 3 people were injured.
1947, December 12 20 killed, 5 wounded by barrel bomb at Damascus Gate.
1947, December 16(ca) 10 killed by bomb at Noga Cinema in Jaffa.
1948, January 7 20 Arabs killed by bomb at Jaffa Gate.

These were civilian targets much like the targets Hamas chooses.

Bombs, especially barrel bombs are indiscriminate and designed to do as much damage to human flesh as possible.

So a link to a link of a link to wikipedia is now the only evidence that is true. Would your claim stand up in a court of law ?

Where is the supporting evidence to show that the Jews did the killings ?

Suddenly you don't like wiki even though you've used it?

Here are more sources:
St. Petersburg Times - Google News Archive Search
The Vancouver Sun - Google News Archive Search

There are more, you can look them up. Quite often, they took credit for it

And if you bother to look the vast majority were actions against attacks on the Jews by arab muslim terrorists.

They happened during the civil war instituted by the arab muslims in 1947/1948 or the arab revolt of 1937/1939.

They were not premeditated mass murders as you are trying to claim, but responces to armed attacks.

Quite a few were aimed at civilian targets. Cinimas, open areas where civilians congregated. Really, you need to stop trying to make excuses for terrorism

Care to get specific ;--)

What cinema ? What open area with civilians ?

They are all listed at the links I gave - I'm not going to waste time repeating it over and over.

 

[Boston1]

The targets were those that were attacking the Jews in Palestine, not civilians. Like the arab muslims action on the orders of the grand mufti or the British establishment sending thousands of Jews to their deaths. I am ashamed of my nations past history in the M.E. and other places when they killed thousands for no other reason than they were a different culture or religion.
So how is Begin guilty of the deaths caused by defence of the Jewish people and not the Palestinians that do the same thing. Or for that matter you who defends the actions of the Palestinians when they attack Jewish women and children., and don't say you don't as the evidence is on this board.

You are on very thin ice here - you are essentially justifying Palestinian targeting of civilians.

Some of Irgun's attacks during Begin's commandership:

1946, October 31 Bombing of the British Embassy in Rome. Nearly half the building was destroyed and 3 people were injured.
1947, December 12 20 killed, 5 wounded by barrel bomb at Damascus Gate.
1947, December 16(ca) 10 killed by bomb at Noga Cinema in Jaffa.
1948, January 7 20 Arabs killed by bomb at Jaffa Gate.

These were civilian targets much like the targets Hamas chooses.

Bombs, especially barrel bombs are indiscriminate and designed to do as much damage to human flesh as possible.

So a link to a link of a link to wikipedia is now the only evidence that is true. Would your claim stand up in a court of law ?

Where is the supporting evidence to show that the Jews did the killings ?

Suddenly you don't like wiki even though you've used it?

Here are more sources:
St. Petersburg Times - Google News Archive Search
The Vancouver Sun - Google News Archive Search

There are more, you can look them up. Quite often, they took credit for it

And if you bother to look the vast majority were actions against attacks on the Jews by arab muslim terrorists.

They happened during the civil war instituted by the arab muslims in 1947/1948 or the arab revolt of 1937/1939.

They were not premeditated mass murders as you are trying to claim, but responces to armed attacks.

Quite a few were aimed at civilian targets. Cinimas, open areas where civilians congregated. Really, you need to stop trying to make excuses for terrorism

Care to get specific ;--)

What cinema ? What open area with civilians ?

They are all listed at the links I gave - I'm not going to waste time repeating it over and over.

Nonsense, those were nothing but accusations minus any actual investigations. Suspected involvement and involvement are two very different things.

So the question remains

What Arab Muslim hero's ?

All I see is a pile of jailed terrorists who deserve far worse than what Israeli jails offer.

 

[Phoenall]

Fry him.

He's a convicted terrorist with no redeeming qualities, He's doing five life sentences with no chance of parole.

Save all that space and money and just fry him.

Would you have fried Begin? Mandella?

Neither Begin nor Mandella were serving five life sentences for murdering civilians

Begin was never caught and prosecuted for his crimes. Does that mean his murders deserve a free pass?

What murders ? There were no investigations, no convictions, no evidence to suggest he murdered anyone.

The fact is he was defending against Arab Muslim aggression. ;--) Remember the Arab Muslims declared they would wipe out every Israeli from the river to the sea. Yeah, not happening

Ok..then, using your logic, there is no evidence to suggest ISIS has murdered most of the people attributed to them.

If you want to believe that go ahead, just don't speak it publicly if you value your life.

Responding to terrorist attacks and acts of war are not terrorist attacks

 

[Phoenall]

Does anybody notice how these vile things never ask the question "Why shouldn't Charles Manson be nominated for the peace prize?" and then proceed to offer reams of sophistry towards that end?

The fact the Jews are the targets legitimizes the killers in the black hearts of these evil creatures.

Who's making the argument that Manson should be, and is Manson even comparable to Begin, Mandella or Marwan? Talk about using extremes.

Is the actions of a religious extremist the same as the actions of a person defending his people from genocide. That is the real question you should be asking. Again I point you to the koran and hadiths that command the muslims to " KILL THE JEWS " and " KILL THE UNBELIEVERS "

Explain to me again how setting a bomb off in a crowded civilian market place equals "defending his people from genocide".

What bomb in what civilian market place. Retaliating for the mass murders of thousands of Jews by the British is what he did, and targeted the British in palestine

Google list of Irgun attacks - I've provided plenty of examples.

So, let me get this straight then - you are saying that when a bomb is set off in a crowded civilian center, targeting innocent civilians - it is justified because it is retaliation?

Seriously? Phoenall, this is when you need to stop digging.

When the bomb turns out to be grenades thrown at the attackers what is it then, because that is what a lot of your so called Irgun terrorism was. Immediate response to arab terrorist attacks and the mass murder of Jews by the British.
But for you to accept that would fly in the face of your Jew hatred and anti semitism

 

[Phoenall]

No I asked the question WHY THESE ACTS WERE DONE and you have skirted that issue.

I've skirted nothing.

Does the "WHY" matter when the target is a civilian target like a crowded market place or a cinema? Like most cases of terrorism the "WHY" is to produce terror in the targeted population.

Are you trying to justify this?

As for mandella he was still orchestrating mass murders of blacks while he was in prison, if anyone deserved to be executed it was him and his wife Winnie. Do you know he ordered the necklacing of more black South Africans than the Boers shot while in power

Killing civilians is killing civilians. I just find it interesting that you are trying to justify one and condemn the other.

In either case - both Begin and Mandella went on to promote peace and reconciliation and achieved it and that is what makes it worthy of a Peace Prize.

NO unlike team Palestine that have to justify every act by the Palestinians along race lines.

Wrong I condemn all terrorist attacks on civlians

Really?

One was fighting for his very existence the other was a communist fighting to gain world domination. That is the difference.

Who is fighting for world domination?

Are you saying that the above justifies murdering civilians becuase it sure sounds like it.

The muslims and neo marxists of course it is part of their religion.
.

The Palestinians are fighting for a state, not world domination. I have no idea where the neo-marxists fit. Your replies seem non-sequitor.

They had a state which they left to join the insurgents at war with the Jews. Proven many times over that the vast majority of Palestinians are recent illegal immigrants and have no ties to the nation. They will fight to the last man rather than give up an inch of dar al islam . The neo Marxists are akin to the muslims in their views and they are friendly with each other, so much so the neo Marxists push the Islamic ideology to the fore.

 

[Phoenall]

There is never ever ever a justification for targeting civilians - bombings in market places and cinemas or embassies...bus'...schools....public squares aimed to terrorize.

So who and why did the Jews terrorise bearing in mind that it must be an act to force the other to change their religion, political views or ideology.

The Palestinians are trying to force islam on the Jews who refuse to convert, and it has been so since mo'mad terrorised the Jews in Medina when they refused to convert to islam. So much so he made it a religious command to " KILL THE JEWS "

 

[Coyote]

Would you have fried Begin? Mandella?

Neither Begin nor Mandella were serving five life sentences for murdering civilians

Begin was never caught and prosecuted for his crimes. Does that mean his murders deserve a free pass?

What murders ? There were no investigations, no convictions, no evidence to suggest he murdered anyone.

The fact is he was defending against Arab Muslim aggression. ;--) Remember the Arab Muslims declared they would wipe out every Israeli from the river to the sea. Yeah, not happening

Ok..then, using your logic, there is no evidence to suggest ISIS has murdered most of the people attributed to them.

If you want to believe that go ahead, just don't speak it publicly if you value your life.

Responding to terrorist attacks and acts of war are not terrorist attacks

Responding to terrorist attacks (if that is what it was) by targeting and attacking civilian targets IS TERRORISM.

Essentially, you are justifying a tit-for-tat terrorism - which is exactly how the Palestinian terrorists justify their acts.