Not Darwin's Law, it's God's Law.

[Boss]

yet some people think for the earth to enable the support of life as we know it is in and of itself a mathematical impossibility?

When I think about "Life as We Know It..." here is what I am thinking:

Planet in Goldilocks range of prevailing star similar in size and perspective to our own.
Planet with an abundant source of liquid water and....
An atmosphere and climate which enable the water to remain stable.
Planet having the correct-sized body collide with the planet and come into geosynchronous orbit at a position which perfectly regulates a 24 hr. day and causing a wobble on the planet's axis which create "seasons" on the planet to work in conjunction with "tides" created by the moon.
A planet rich in many vital elements to life, like oxygen, nitrogen, carbon, iron, etc.
A planet with a molten nickel core which creates a polar magnetic field and...
enables a shield against cosmic radiation and ultraviolet rays.

To have "Life as We Know It" anywhere, regardless of whether you believe in creation or miracle of science, for the life to exist as we know it, these are the things it takes. Now, maybe some life can exist as we don't know it? Or maybe some life as we know it might exist elsewhere. We're probably never going to know.

 

[Boss]

this is so nuts it's almost unbelievable

No, what's nuts is holding up something as "scientific theory" which actually attempts to challenge long-standing science principle. I have no problems with challenging Pasteur, but so far, nothing has refuted Biogenesis. It will be a monumental day in science if it ever happens.

What can't be refuted is the human attribute of spirituality. It has been present in mankind for all of our existence and held by over 90% of our species in every civilization. It can't be stomped out of the hearts of man through centuries of war, persecution, starvation or enslavement.

This doesn't sound like fantasies and imagination, or superstitious beliefs. If so, people who worshiped God would be like people who fear black cats or walking under ladders. That's not what we see at all. In fact, when we objectively look at human history we see how human spirituality shaped what we define as humanity. All the things about humans that make us unique is through our intrinsic spiritual awareness. Spirituality is the human's most defining attribute as a species.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

this is so nuts it's almost unbelievable

No, what's nuts is holding up something as "scientific theory" which actually attempts to challenge long-standing science principle. I have no problems with challenging Pasteur, but so far, nothing has refuted Biogenesis. It will be a monumental day in science if it ever happens.

What can't be refuted is the human attribute of spirituality. It has been present in mankind for all of our existence and held by over 90% of our species in every civilization. It can't be stomped out of the hearts of man through centuries of war, persecution, starvation or enslavement.

This doesn't sound like fantasies and imagination, or superstitious beliefs. If so, people who worshiped God would be like people who fear black cats or walking under ladders. That's not what we see at all. In fact, when we objectively look at human history we see how human spirituality shaped what we define as humanity. All the things about humans that make us unique is through our intrinsic spiritual awareness. Spirituality is the human's most defining attribute as a species.

I believe spirituality has been with us since we evolved from our cousins. There is archeological evidence that shows humans finally burying our family/friends/clan. This was not always so. We were evolving. Then we later see burials with things/objects. We see humans who had crippling injuries and broken bones who could not have traveled alone -- so we get identification with the other, compassion. These last humans mentioned had to be taken care of and carried along. This was not always so either. Society is developing and so is culture.

What we see as far as spirituality is found in burials or old communities where culture/civilization developed.

We know early on in the Levant, there existed an agricultural culture/civilization that settled near rivers/water. Their tools were for living and farming. At some time we see invaders coming in from the Semite areas and the Indo-Europeans from what was Anatolia(?). These invaders are herders (hunter gatherers?) and have tools for herding, killing and slaying animals -- sheep, goats...

Do you doubt or disagree with any of this?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

yet some people think for the earth to enable the support of life as we know it is in and of itself a mathematical impossibility?

When I think about "Life as We Know It..." here is what I am thinking:

Planet in Goldilocks range of prevailing star similar in size and perspective to our own.
Planet with an abundant source of liquid water and....
An atmosphere and climate which enable the water to remain stable.

Planet having the correct-sized body collide with the planet and come into geosynchronous orbit at a position which perfectly regulates a 24 hr. day and causing a wobble on the planet's axis which create "seasons" on the planet to work in conjunction with "tides" created by the moon.

A planet rich in many vital elements to life, like oxygen, nitrogen, carbon, iron, etc.
A planet with a molten nickel core which creates a polar magnetic field and...
enables a shield against cosmic radiation and ultraviolet rays.

To have "Life as We Know It" anywhere, regardless of whether you believe in creation or miracle of science, for the life to exist as we know it, these are the things it takes. Now, maybe some life can exist as we don't know it? Or maybe some life as we know it might exist elsewhere. We're probably never going to know.

Maybe you are approaching it in a backwards fashion? We exist only because these things existed. They did not exist for us. We are a result of their existence. Like dropping something and it mixes with something else and we get - creation.

 

[Boss]

this is so nuts it's almost unbelievable

No, what's nuts is holding up something as "scientific theory" which actually attempts to challenge long-standing science principle. I have no problems with challenging Pasteur, but so far, nothing has refuted Biogenesis. It will be a monumental day in science if it ever happens.

What can't be refuted is the human attribute of spirituality. It has been present in mankind for all of our existence and held by over 90% of our species in every civilization. It can't be stomped out of the hearts of man through centuries of war, persecution, starvation or enslavement.

This doesn't sound like fantasies and imagination, or superstitious beliefs. If so, people who worshiped God would be like people who fear black cats or walking under ladders. That's not what we see at all. In fact, when we objectively look at human history we see how human spirituality shaped what we define as humanity. All the things about humans that make us unique is through our intrinsic spiritual awareness. Spirituality is the human's most defining attribute as a species.

I believe spirituality has been with us since we evolved from our cousins. There is archeological evidence that shows humans finally burying our family/friends/clan. This was not always so. We were evolving. Then we later see burials with things/objects. We see humans who had crippling injuries and broken bones who could not have traveled alone -- so we get identification with the other, compassion. These last humans mentioned had to be taken care of and carried along. This was not always so either. Society is developing and so is culture.

What we see as far as spirituality is found in burials or old communities where culture/civilization developed.

We know early on in the Levant, there existed an agricultural culture/civilization that settled near rivers/water. Their tools were for living and farming. At some time we see invaders coming in from the Semite areas and the Indo-Europeans from what was Anatolia(?). These invaders are herders (hunter gatherers?) and have tools for herding, killing and slaying animals -- sheep, goats...

Do you doubt or disagree with any of this?

Don't know about all that, there is a lot of speculation there. What is known is, every archeological discovery of remains from human civilizations show signs of spiritual ritual. This is what was apparently always so and never deviated. Humans have been spiritual creatures for as long as they have been humans.

 

[Boss]

yet some people think for the earth to enable the support of life as we know it is in and of itself a mathematical impossibility?

When I think about "Life as We Know It..." here is what I am thinking:

Planet in Goldilocks range of prevailing star similar in size and perspective to our own.
Planet with an abundant source of liquid water and....
An atmosphere and climate which enable the water to remain stable.

Planet having the correct-sized body collide with the planet and come into geosynchronous orbit at a position which perfectly regulates a 24 hr. day and causing a wobble on the planet's axis which create "seasons" on the planet to work in conjunction with "tides" created by the moon.

A planet rich in many vital elements to life, like oxygen, nitrogen, carbon, iron, etc.
A planet with a molten nickel core which creates a polar magnetic field and...
enables a shield against cosmic radiation and ultraviolet rays.

To have "Life as We Know It" anywhere, regardless of whether you believe in creation or miracle of science, for the life to exist as we know it, these are the things it takes. Now, maybe some life can exist as we don't know it? Or maybe some life as we know it might exist elsewhere. We're probably never going to know.

Maybe you are approaching it in a backwards fashion? We exist only because these things existed. They did not exist for us. We are a result of their existence. Like dropping something and it mixes with something else and we get - creation.

No, I am simply saying "life as we know it" is made possible by a unique set of circumstances that we're not likely to find repeated in the universe. You see, it's because the life we know exists through a system of seasons, climate change, temperature fluctuations, tides, ocean convection, and all kinds of things associated with the gravity of the moon, our rotational wobble, regulated days, robust atmosphere, magnetic field, etc. Lots of things happening to make "life as we know it" possible.

Now, could a planet have life if it didn't have seasons, climate, atmosphere, water, tides, convection, etc.? Sure, that's possible, but it won't be "life as we know it" if that's the case.

 

[Hollie]

this is so nuts it's almost unbelievable

No, what's nuts is holding up something as "scientific theory" which actually attempts to challenge long-standing science principle. I have no problems with challenging Pasteur, but so far, nothing has refuted Biogenesis. It will be a monumental day in science if it ever happens.

What can't be refuted is the human attribute of spirituality. It has been present in mankind for all of our existence and held by over 90% of our species in every civilization. It can't be stomped out of the hearts of man through centuries of war, persecution, starvation or enslavement.

This doesn't sound like fantasies and imagination, or superstitious beliefs. If so, people who worshiped God would be like people who fear black cats or walking under ladders. That's not what we see at all. In fact, when we objectively look at human history we see how human spirituality shaped what we define as humanity. All the things about humans that make us unique is through our intrinsic spiritual awareness. Spirituality is the human's most defining attribute as a species.

I believe spirituality has been with us since we evolved from our cousins. There is archeological evidence that shows humans finally burying our family/friends/clan. This was not always so. We were evolving. Then we later see burials with things/objects. We see humans who had crippling injuries and broken bones who could not have traveled alone -- so we get identification with the other, compassion. These last humans mentioned had to be taken care of and carried along. This was not always so either. Society is developing and so is culture.

What we see as far as spirituality is found in burials or old communities where culture/civilization developed.

We know early on in the Levant, there existed an agricultural culture/civilization that settled near rivers/water. Their tools were for living and farming. At some time we see invaders coming in from the Semite areas and the Indo-Europeans from what was Anatolia(?). These invaders are herders (hunter gatherers?) and have tools for herding, killing and slaying animals -- sheep, goats...

Do you doubt or disagree with any of this?

Don't know about all that, there is a lot of speculation there. What is known is, every archeological discovery of remains from human civilizations show signs of spiritual ritual. This is what was apparently always so and never deviated. Humans have been spiritual creatures for as long as they have been humans.

You're inserting your magical spirit realms where they don't belong.

Burial of the dead had many survival / obvious practicalities, especially for early hunter-gatherer populations. Dead bodies were a source of odor and a draw for predators.

Nothing magical and no requirement for spirit realms.

 

[PostmodernProph]

I hung around seminarians in a past life time. They were orthodox Greek and others. Please do not give me Protestant Bible study nonsense

why?.....because you already have more nonsense than you can carry?.....

 

[PostmodernProph]

Creation involves ever-present human spirituality.

.
as pointed out that is the flaw for the theory of creationism, there are no examples of inert creations similar in complexity to living beings, sculptures as would be if creationism were the origin of life - as representations of complex structures on planets where life is not possible.

.

please explain.....why would created life require a parallel created non-life......do you assume the Intelligent Designer had to work by trial and error?......

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I hung around seminarians in a past life time. They were orthodox Greek and others. Please do not give me Protestant Bible study nonsense

why?.....because you already have more nonsense than you can carry?.....

young existentialist minds search and seek out. I was young once.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

this is so nuts it's almost unbelievable

No, what's nuts is holding up something as "scientific theory" which actually attempts to challenge long-standing science principle. I have no problems with challenging Pasteur, but so far, nothing has refuted Biogenesis. It will be a monumental day in science if it ever happens.

What can't be refuted is the human attribute of spirituality. It has been present in mankind for all of our existence and held by over 90% of our species in every civilization. It can't be stomped out of the hearts of man through centuries of war, persecution, starvation or enslavement.

This doesn't sound like fantasies and imagination, or superstitious beliefs. If so, people who worshiped God would be like people who fear black cats or walking under ladders. That's not what we see at all. In fact, when we objectively look at human history we see how human spirituality shaped what we define as humanity. All the things about humans that make us unique is through our intrinsic spiritual awareness. Spirituality is the human's most defining attribute as a species.

I believe spirituality has been with us since we evolved from our cousins. There is archeological evidence that shows humans finally burying our family/friends/clan. This was not always so. We were evolving. Then we later see burials with things/objects. We see humans who had crippling injuries and broken bones who could not have traveled alone -- so we get identification with the other, compassion. These last humans mentioned had to be taken care of and carried along. This was not always so either. Society is developing and so is culture.

What we see as far as spirituality is found in burials or old communities where culture/civilization developed.

We know early on in the Levant, there existed an agricultural culture/civilization that settled near rivers/water. Their tools were for living and farming. At some time we see invaders coming in from the Semite areas and the Indo-Europeans from what was Anatolia(?). These invaders are herders (hunter gatherers?) and have tools for herding, killing and slaying animals -- sheep, goats...

Do you doubt or disagree with any of this?

Don't know about all that, there is a lot of speculation there. What is known is, every archeological discovery of remains from human civilizations show signs of spiritual ritual. This is what was apparently always so and never deviated. Humans have been spiritual creatures for as long as they have been humans.

I see you're one of the serious and rational members here. I do apologize for insults -- intended and not so.

my apologies

now on to...

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

this is so nuts it's almost unbelievable

No, what's nuts is holding up something as "scientific theory" which actually attempts to challenge long-standing science principle. I have no problems with challenging Pasteur, but so far, nothing has refuted Biogenesis. It will be a monumental day in science if it ever happens.

What can't be refuted is the human attribute of spirituality. It has been present in mankind for all of our existence and held by over 90% of our species in every civilization. It can't be stomped out of the hearts of man through centuries of war, persecution, starvation or enslavement.

This doesn't sound like fantasies and imagination, or superstitious beliefs. If so, people who worshiped God would be like people who fear black cats or walking under ladders. That's not what we see at all. In fact, when we objectively look at human history we see how human spirituality shaped what we define as humanity. All the things about humans that make us unique is through our intrinsic spiritual awareness. Spirituality is the human's most defining attribute as a species.

I believe spirituality has been with us since we evolved from our cousins. There is archeological evidence that shows humans finally burying our family/friends/clan. This was not always so. We were evolving. Then we later see burials with things/objects. We see humans who had crippling injuries and broken bones who could not have traveled alone -- so we get identification with the other, compassion. These last humans mentioned had to be taken care of and carried along. This was not always so either. Society is developing and so is culture.

What we see as far as spirituality is found in burials or old communities where culture/civilization developed.

We know early on in the Levant, there existed an agricultural culture/civilization that settled near rivers/water. Their tools were for living and farming. At some time we see invaders coming in from the Semite areas and the Indo-Europeans from what was Anatolia(?). These invaders are herders (hunter gatherers?) and have tools for herding, killing and slaying animals -- sheep, goats...

Do you doubt or disagree with any of this?

Don't know about all that, there is a lot of speculation there. What is known is, every archeological discovery of remains from human civilizations show signs of spiritual ritual. This is what was apparently always so and never deviated. Humans have been spiritual creatures for as long as they have been humans.

Not every archeological find has confirmed a spiritual component. What has have been finds of humans in a societal area/civilization. Before, we all appear to have been creatures in search of what ???

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

yet some people think for the earth to enable the support of life as we know it is in and of itself a mathematical impossibility?

When I think about "Life as We Know It..." here is what I am thinking:

Planet in Goldilocks range of prevailing star similar in size and perspective to our own.
Planet with an abundant source of liquid water and....
An atmosphere and climate which enable the water to remain stable.

Planet having the correct-sized body collide with the planet and come into geosynchronous orbit at a position which perfectly regulates a 24 hr. day and causing a wobble on the planet's axis which create "seasons" on the planet to work in conjunction with "tides" created by the moon.

A planet rich in many vital elements to life, like oxygen, nitrogen, carbon, iron, etc.
A planet with a molten nickel core which creates a polar magnetic field and...
enables a shield against cosmic radiation and ultraviolet rays.

To have "Life as We Know It" anywhere, regardless of whether you believe in creation or miracle of science, for the life to exist as we know it, these are the things it takes. Now, maybe some life can exist as we don't know it? Or maybe some life as we know it might exist elsewhere. We're probably never going to know.

Maybe you are approaching it in a backwards fashion? We exist only because these things existed. They did not exist for us. We are a result of their existence. Like dropping something and it mixes with something else and we get - creation.

No, I am simply saying "life as we know it" is made possible by a unique set of circumstances that we're not likely to find repeated in the universe. You see, it's because the life we know exists through a system of seasons, climate change, temperature fluctuations, tides, ocean convection, and all kinds of things associated with the gravity of the moon, our rotational wobble, regulated days, robust atmosphere, magnetic field, etc. Lots of things happening to make "life as we know it" possible.

Now, could a planet have life if it didn't have seasons, climate, atmosphere, water, tides, convection, etc.? Sure, that's possible, but it won't be "life as we know it" if that's the case.

That was my point -- "not likely," is an improbable scenario vastly different than saying it is an impossibility .

"Lots of things happening to make "life as we know it" possible." - That doesn't demand a creator or a plan. It doesn't demand anything.

 

[Boss]

this is so nuts it's almost unbelievable

No, what's nuts is holding up something as "scientific theory" which actually attempts to challenge long-standing science principle. I have no problems with challenging Pasteur, but so far, nothing has refuted Biogenesis. It will be a monumental day in science if it ever happens.

What can't be refuted is the human attribute of spirituality. It has been present in mankind for all of our existence and held by over 90% of our species in every civilization. It can't be stomped out of the hearts of man through centuries of war, persecution, starvation or enslavement.

This doesn't sound like fantasies and imagination, or superstitious beliefs. If so, people who worshiped God would be like people who fear black cats or walking under ladders. That's not what we see at all. In fact, when we objectively look at human history we see how human spirituality shaped what we define as humanity. All the things about humans that make us unique is through our intrinsic spiritual awareness. Spirituality is the human's most defining attribute as a species.

I believe spirituality has been with us since we evolved from our cousins. There is archeological evidence that shows humans finally burying our family/friends/clan. This was not always so. We were evolving. Then we later see burials with things/objects. We see humans who had crippling injuries and broken bones who could not have traveled alone -- so we get identification with the other, compassion. These last humans mentioned had to be taken care of and carried along. This was not always so either. Society is developing and so is culture.

What we see as far as spirituality is found in burials or old communities where culture/civilization developed.

We know early on in the Levant, there existed an agricultural culture/civilization that settled near rivers/water. Their tools were for living and farming. At some time we see invaders coming in from the Semite areas and the Indo-Europeans from what was Anatolia(?). These invaders are herders (hunter gatherers?) and have tools for herding, killing and slaying animals -- sheep, goats...

Do you doubt or disagree with any of this?

Don't know about all that, there is a lot of speculation there. What is known is, every archeological discovery of remains from human civilizations show signs of spiritual ritual. This is what was apparently always so and never deviated. Humans have been spiritual creatures for as long as they have been humans.

You're inserting your magical spirit realms where they don't belong.

Burial of the dead had many survival / obvious practicalities, especially for early hunter-gatherer populations. Dead bodies were a source of odor and a draw for predators.

Nothing magical and no requirement for spirit realms.

Burial of the dead may have had many practical reasons, burying the dead in ceremonial rituals only has one reason.

 

[BreezeWood]

Creation involves ever-present human spirituality.

.
as pointed out that is the flaw for the theory of creationism, there are no examples of inert creations similar in complexity to living beings, sculptures as would be if creationism were the origin of life - as representations of complex structures on planets where life is not possible.

.

please explain.....why would created life require a parallel created non-life......do you assume the Intelligent Designer had to work by trial and error?......

boss: Creation involves ever-present human spirituality.

Post: why would created life require a parallel created non-life

.

ever-present human spirituality is the origin for all beings.

if life is "created" the creationist would have other created inert sculptures of complexity for verification to support their theory - what they have is only a self sustaining organism capable of reproduction by its own mechanism.


no examples of complex creations void of life exist.

.

 

[Boss]

this is so nuts it's almost unbelievable

No, what's nuts is holding up something as "scientific theory" which actually attempts to challenge long-standing science principle. I have no problems with challenging Pasteur, but so far, nothing has refuted Biogenesis. It will be a monumental day in science if it ever happens.

What can't be refuted is the human attribute of spirituality. It has been present in mankind for all of our existence and held by over 90% of our species in every civilization. It can't be stomped out of the hearts of man through centuries of war, persecution, starvation or enslavement.

This doesn't sound like fantasies and imagination, or superstitious beliefs. If so, people who worshiped God would be like people who fear black cats or walking under ladders. That's not what we see at all. In fact, when we objectively look at human history we see how human spirituality shaped what we define as humanity. All the things about humans that make us unique is through our intrinsic spiritual awareness. Spirituality is the human's most defining attribute as a species.

I believe spirituality has been with us since we evolved from our cousins. There is archeological evidence that shows humans finally burying our family/friends/clan. This was not always so. We were evolving. Then we later see burials with things/objects. We see humans who had crippling injuries and broken bones who could not have traveled alone -- so we get identification with the other, compassion. These last humans mentioned had to be taken care of and carried along. This was not always so either. Society is developing and so is culture.

What we see as far as spirituality is found in burials or old communities where culture/civilization developed.

We know early on in the Levant, there existed an agricultural culture/civilization that settled near rivers/water. Their tools were for living and farming. At some time we see invaders coming in from the Semite areas and the Indo-Europeans from what was Anatolia(?). These invaders are herders (hunter gatherers?) and have tools for herding, killing and slaying animals -- sheep, goats...

Do you doubt or disagree with any of this?

Don't know about all that, there is a lot of speculation there. What is known is, every archeological discovery of remains from human civilizations show signs of spiritual ritual. This is what was apparently always so and never deviated. Humans have been spiritual creatures for as long as they have been humans.

Not every archeological find has confirmed a spiritual component. What has have been finds of humans in a societal area/civilization. Before, we all appear to have been creatures in search of what ???

Yes. Every archeological find of human civilization shows signs of human spiritual ritual. It doesn't matter where it's at or how old, this has been discovered in every human civilization. There are always some Atheist deniers trying to argue this, but again, there is only one reason for ceremonial rituals.

 

[Boss]

yet some people think for the earth to enable the support of life as we know it is in and of itself a mathematical impossibility?

When I think about "Life as We Know It..." here is what I am thinking:

Planet in Goldilocks range of prevailing star similar in size and perspective to our own.
Planet with an abundant source of liquid water and....
An atmosphere and climate which enable the water to remain stable.

Planet having the correct-sized body collide with the planet and come into geosynchronous orbit at a position which perfectly regulates a 24 hr. day and causing a wobble on the planet's axis which create "seasons" on the planet to work in conjunction with "tides" created by the moon.

A planet rich in many vital elements to life, like oxygen, nitrogen, carbon, iron, etc.
A planet with a molten nickel core which creates a polar magnetic field and...
enables a shield against cosmic radiation and ultraviolet rays.

To have "Life as We Know It" anywhere, regardless of whether you believe in creation or miracle of science, for the life to exist as we know it, these are the things it takes. Now, maybe some life can exist as we don't know it? Or maybe some life as we know it might exist elsewhere. We're probably never going to know.

Maybe you are approaching it in a backwards fashion? We exist only because these things existed. They did not exist for us. We are a result of their existence. Like dropping something and it mixes with something else and we get - creation.

No, I am simply saying "life as we know it" is made possible by a unique set of circumstances that we're not likely to find repeated in the universe. You see, it's because the life we know exists through a system of seasons, climate change, temperature fluctuations, tides, ocean convection, and all kinds of things associated with the gravity of the moon, our rotational wobble, regulated days, robust atmosphere, magnetic field, etc. Lots of things happening to make "life as we know it" possible.

Now, could a planet have life if it didn't have seasons, climate, atmosphere, water, tides, convection, etc.? Sure, that's possible, but it won't be "life as we know it" if that's the case.

That was my point -- "not likely," is an improbable scenario vastly different than saying it is an impossibility .

"Lots of things happening to make "life as we know it" possible." - That doesn't demand a creator or a plan. It doesn't demand anything.

I didn't claim it did. We're talking about two different things. "Life as we know it" will require a very specific and unique set of circumstances the odds are well against. "Other life out there" is a different criteria, much more likely. I try to never say anything is impossible.

 

[Boss]

Creation involves ever-present human spirituality.

.
as pointed out that is the flaw for the theory of creationism, there are no examples of inert creations similar in complexity to living beings, sculptures as would be if creationism were the origin of life - as representations of complex structures on planets where life is not possible.

.

please explain.....why would created life require a parallel created non-life......do you assume the Intelligent Designer had to work by trial and error?......

boss: Creation involves ever-present human spirituality.

Post: why would created life require a parallel created non-life

.

ever-present human spirituality is the origin for all beings.

if life is "created" the creationist would have other created inert sculptures of complexity for verification to support their theory - what they have is only a self sustaining organism capable of reproduction by its own mechanism.


no examples of complex creations void of life exist.

.

Most of the time, I have no idea of what you are trying to say. Your posts are the most cryptic and perplexing on USMB. This is why people tend to ignore you, they don't know what the hell you're talking about.

The little rant you're on now, seems to only make rational sense if someone were arguing that God is a person who created life. Since no one believes God is a person, your argument is pointless.

 

[Hollie]

this is so nuts it's almost unbelievable

No, what's nuts is holding up something as "scientific theory" which actually attempts to challenge long-standing science principle. I have no problems with challenging Pasteur, but so far, nothing has refuted Biogenesis. It will be a monumental day in science if it ever happens.

What can't be refuted is the human attribute of spirituality. It has been present in mankind for all of our existence and held by over 90% of our species in every civilization. It can't be stomped out of the hearts of man through centuries of war, persecution, starvation or enslavement.

This doesn't sound like fantasies and imagination, or superstitious beliefs. If so, people who worshiped God would be like people who fear black cats or walking under ladders. That's not what we see at all. In fact, when we objectively look at human history we see how human spirituality shaped what we define as humanity. All the things about humans that make us unique is through our intrinsic spiritual awareness. Spirituality is the human's most defining attribute as a species.

I believe spirituality has been with us since we evolved from our cousins. There is archeological evidence that shows humans finally burying our family/friends/clan. This was not always so. We were evolving. Then we later see burials with things/objects. We see humans who had crippling injuries and broken bones who could not have traveled alone -- so we get identification with the other, compassion. These last humans mentioned had to be taken care of and carried along. This was not always so either. Society is developing and so is culture.

What we see as far as spirituality is found in burials or old communities where culture/civilization developed.

We know early on in the Levant, there existed an agricultural culture/civilization that settled near rivers/water. Their tools were for living and farming. At some time we see invaders coming in from the Semite areas and the Indo-Europeans from what was Anatolia(?). These invaders are herders (hunter gatherers?) and have tools for herding, killing and slaying animals -- sheep, goats...

Do you doubt or disagree with any of this?

Don't know about all that, there is a lot of speculation there. What is known is, every archeological discovery of remains from human civilizations show signs of spiritual ritual. This is what was apparently always so and never deviated. Humans have been spiritual creatures for as long as they have been humans.

You're inserting your magical spirit realms where they don't belong.

Burial of the dead had many survival / obvious practicalities, especially for early hunter-gatherer populations. Dead bodies were a source of odor and a draw for predators.

Nothing magical and no requirement for spirit realms.

Burial of the dead may have had many practical reasons, burying the dead in ceremonial rituals only has one reason.

There is no indication of "ceremonial rituals" that attended the burial of the vast majority of humanity. So still, there is no connection to your alleged spirit realms.

 

[Hollie]

this is so nuts it's almost unbelievable

No, what's nuts is holding up something as "scientific theory" which actually attempts to challenge long-standing science principle. I have no problems with challenging Pasteur, but so far, nothing has refuted Biogenesis. It will be a monumental day in science if it ever happens.

What can't be refuted is the human attribute of spirituality. It has been present in mankind for all of our existence and held by over 90% of our species in every civilization. It can't be stomped out of the hearts of man through centuries of war, persecution, starvation or enslavement.

This doesn't sound like fantasies and imagination, or superstitious beliefs. If so, people who worshiped God would be like people who fear black cats or walking under ladders. That's not what we see at all. In fact, when we objectively look at human history we see how human spirituality shaped what we define as humanity. All the things about humans that make us unique is through our intrinsic spiritual awareness. Spirituality is the human's most defining attribute as a species.

I believe spirituality has been with us since we evolved from our cousins. There is archeological evidence that shows humans finally burying our family/friends/clan. This was not always so. We were evolving. Then we later see burials with things/objects. We see humans who had crippling injuries and broken bones who could not have traveled alone -- so we get identification with the other, compassion. These last humans mentioned had to be taken care of and carried along. This was not always so either. Society is developing and so is culture.

What we see as far as spirituality is found in burials or old communities where culture/civilization developed.

We know early on in the Levant, there existed an agricultural culture/civilization that settled near rivers/water. Their tools were for living and farming. At some time we see invaders coming in from the Semite areas and the Indo-Europeans from what was Anatolia(?). These invaders are herders (hunter gatherers?) and have tools for herding, killing and slaying animals -- sheep, goats...

Do you doubt or disagree with any of this?

Don't know about all that, there is a lot of speculation there. What is known is, every archeological discovery of remains from human civilizations show signs of spiritual ritual. This is what was apparently always so and never deviated. Humans have been spiritual creatures for as long as they have been humans.

Not every archeological find has confirmed a spiritual component. What has have been finds of humans in a societal area/civilization. Before, we all appear to have been creatures in search of what ???

Yes. Every archeological find of human civilization shows signs of human spiritual ritual. It doesn't matter where it's at or how old, this has been discovered in every human civilization. There are always some Atheist deniers trying to argue this, but again, there is only one reason for ceremonial rituals.

Other than your " because I say so" demand that "Yes. Every archeological find of human civilization shows signs of human spiritual ritual", is no reason to accept it as true.

The undefined "spiritual" meme defines and describes nothing. Oddly, there are always some spirit realm'ists who insist on trying to force their partisan gawds on others.