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immie,Question:
Chris keeps speaking about how great health care is in all those other countries who have socialized medicine. In every thread about HRC, Chris reminds us of how much he adores the medical fields in all those countries.
How many of those other countries produce any significant medical research that betters the lives of people around the world?
In 2013, when we jump head first into the quagmire of socialized medicine will American medical research come to a standstill? Will pharmecuetical companies cut back on their research and leave us without research into the cure for cancer?
How about the artificial heart? Would it have been developed under socialized medicine? Will we be stuck with what we have now and never move further along in the technology so that the artificial heart could be a viable long term solution. How about prostethis? (sp?) Research is being done that makes artificial limbs behave almost humanlike. Will that research continue or die out because of lack of funding?
What kind of damage will this plan do to medical research nationwide?
Why would research stop? Because if there is no financial incentive (provided by capitalism) for finding the cure to cancer researchers are not going to invest the billions of dollars it will take to find it. The government will be minimizing the rewards for research. If it is going to cost me 10 billion dollars to find the cure for cancer and when I am done the government is going to restrict me to $5 a dose, I am not going to risk that $10 billion.
Immie
How exactly will the government be minimizing the rewards in EITHER OF THESE BILLS....you give some sort of generalization or mere speculation or whatever one wants to call it, but you have not given any example of how this minimalization of the rewards will actually or realistically or honestly or truthfully be done in these 2 health reform bills?
There are no caps on what anyone can charge us in these bills are there?
If anything, I believe THAT'S the real problem....health care costs will go way up IF THERE ARE NO caps....
btw, the federal government, our taxes, PAYS for 40% of ALL research and development costs IN THE MEDICAL PRIVATE SECTOR....DO WE ever get the $4 BILLION back from the total $10 billion spent on the cure for cancer in your example?
care
immie,Question:
Chris keeps speaking about how great health care is in all those other countries who have socialized medicine. In every thread about HRC, Chris reminds us of how much he adores the medical fields in all those countries.
How many of those other countries produce any significant medical research that betters the lives of people around the world?
In 2013, when we jump head first into the quagmire of socialized medicine will American medical research come to a standstill? Will pharmecuetical companies cut back on their research and leave us without research into the cure for cancer?
How about the artificial heart? Would it have been developed under socialized medicine? Will we be stuck with what we have now and never move further along in the technology so that the artificial heart could be a viable long term solution. How about prostethis? (sp?) Research is being done that makes artificial limbs behave almost humanlike. Will that research continue or die out because of lack of funding?
What kind of damage will this plan do to medical research nationwide?
Why would research stop? Because if there is no financial incentive (provided by capitalism) for finding the cure to cancer researchers are not going to invest the billions of dollars it will take to find it. The government will be minimizing the rewards for research. If it is going to cost me 10 billion dollars to find the cure for cancer and when I am done the government is going to restrict me to $5 a dose, I am not going to risk that $10 billion.
Immie
How exactly will the government be minimizing the rewards in EITHER OF THESE BILLS....you give some sort of generalization or mere speculation or whatever one wants to call it, but you have not given any example of how this minimalization of the rewards will actually or realistically or honestly or truthfully be done in these 2 health reform bills?
There are no caps on what anyone can charge us in these bills are there?
If anything, I believe THAT'S the real problem....health care costs will go way up IF THERE ARE NO caps....
btw, the federal government, our taxes, PAYS for 40% of ALL research and development costs IN THE MEDICAL PRIVATE SECTOR....DO WE ever get the $4 BILLION back from the total $10 billion spent on the cure for cancer in your example?
care
Just out of curiosity, do you know what a question is?
And as a matter of fact, once the government controls all health insurance, you can bet your bottom dollar that they will be limiting what doctors can charge for medical services as well as research.
They will as a matter of fact have a monopoly on the health care industry.
Immie
immie,
How exactly will the government be minimizing the rewards in EITHER OF THESE BILLS....you give some sort of generalization or mere speculation or whatever one wants to call it, but you have not given any example of how this minimalization of the rewards will actually or realistically or honestly or truthfully be done in these 2 health reform bills?
There are no caps on what anyone can charge us in these bills are there?
If anything, I believe THAT'S the real problem....health care costs will go way up IF THERE ARE NO caps....
btw, the federal government, our taxes, PAYS for 40% of ALL research and development costs IN THE MEDICAL PRIVATE SECTOR....DO WE ever get the $4 BILLION back from the total $10 billion spent on the cure for cancer in your example?
care
Just out of curiosity, do you know what a question is?
And as a matter of fact, once the government controls all health insurance, you can bet your bottom dollar that they will be limiting what doctors can charge for medical services as well as research.
They will as a matter of fact have a monopoly on the health care industry.
Immie
IF that were the case, then let's go for true universal health care for all, now, and DUMP the private sector insurers....MEDICARE for all....
BUT this is NOT the case....at least not yet....caps are not in this bill...
sensible public opiton.
No such thing exists.
But I have faith in this country. Sooner or later people will understand the fundamental fairness and decency of having national health insurance.
I don't have faith in this country, not with you and your ilk calling the shots. Maybe sooner or late people will understand the fundamental fairness and decency of a hard day's work and pay for their own fucking way instead of expecting me to pay for it.
sensible public opiton.
No such thing exists.
But I have faith in this country. Sooner or later people will understand the fundamental fairness and decency of having national health insurance.
I don't have faith in this country, not with you and your ilk calling the shots. Maybe sooner or late people will understand the fundamental fairness and decency of a hard day's work and pay for their own fucking way instead of expecting me to pay for it.
You know, you could have saved a lot of time by just typing "fuck the poor, they deserve to die".
sensible public opiton.
No such thing exists.
But I have faith in this country. Sooner or later people will understand the fundamental fairness and decency of having national health insurance.
I don't have faith in this country, not with you and your ilk calling the shots. Maybe sooner or late people will understand the fundamental fairness and decency of a hard day's work and pay for their own fucking way instead of expecting me to pay for it.
You know, you could have saved a lot of time by just typing "fuck the poor, they deserve to die".
immie,
How exactly will the government be minimizing the rewards in EITHER OF THESE BILLS....you give some sort of generalization or mere speculation or whatever one wants to call it, but you have not given any example of how this minimalization of the rewards will actually or realistically or honestly or truthfully be done in these 2 health reform bills?
There are no caps on what anyone can charge us in these bills are there?
If anything, I believe THAT'S the real problem....health care costs will go way up IF THERE ARE NO caps....
btw, the federal government, our taxes, PAYS for 40% of ALL research and development costs IN THE MEDICAL PRIVATE SECTOR....DO WE ever get the $4 BILLION back from the total $10 billion spent on the cure for cancer in your example?
care
Just out of curiosity, do you know what a question is?
And as a matter of fact, once the government controls all health insurance, you can bet your bottom dollar that they will be limiting what doctors can charge for medical services as well as research.
They will as a matter of fact have a monopoly on the health care industry.
Immie
IF that were the case, then let's go for true universal health care for all, now, and DUMP the private sector insurers....MEDICARE for all....
BUT this is NOT the case....at least not yet....caps are not in this bill...
No such thing exists.
I don't have faith in this country, not with you and your ilk calling the shots. Maybe sooner or late people will understand the fundamental fairness and decency of a hard day's work and pay for their own fucking way instead of expecting me to pay for it.
You know, you could have saved a lot of time by just typing "fuck the poor, they deserve to die".
actually it is fuck the young and healthy to cover the poor and sick.....you see to create and insurance pool that would not exclude the poor...the ill ....the old and those with pre-existing conditions ....you need the young and health to pay premiums .... and high ones....so their money will offset those that use the health care....
Just out of curiosity, do you know what a question is?
And as a matter of fact, once the government controls all health insurance, you can bet your bottom dollar that they will be limiting what doctors can charge for medical services as well as research.
They will as a matter of fact have a monopoly on the health care industry.
Immie
IF that were the case, then let's go for true universal health care for all, now, and DUMP the private sector insurers....MEDICARE for all....
BUT this is NOT the case....at least not yet....caps are not in this bill...
Unless you've read the bill from cover to cover and totally understand it I don't think you can say that.
And.....what's worse is they still aren't finished writing the stupid thing.
IF that were the case, then let's go for true universal health care for all, now, and DUMP the private sector insurers....MEDICARE for all....
BUT this is NOT the case....at least not yet....caps are not in this bill...
Unless you've read the bill from cover to cover and totally understand it I don't think you can say that.
And.....what's worse is they still aren't finished writing the stupid thing.
That's true, and even if one has read one of the bills in it's entirety, there is still another thousand or more pages of another bill that could differ, and then like you said, in conference they will be compromising and rewriting it again.
Though the Public option is only 12 pages out of the 1900 pages of the House Bill, so there certainly is not any focus on the the Public option in that bill that could not be understood imho....
I don't believe price caps on our already existing Medicare is hurting the research and development in the medical field for seniors....?
why would that change?
care
IF that were the case, then let's go for true universal health care for all, now, and DUMP the private sector insurers....MEDICARE for all....
BUT this is NOT the case....at least not yet....caps are not in this bill...
Unless you've read the bill from cover to cover and totally understand it I don't think you can say that.
And.....what's worse is they still aren't finished writing the stupid thing.
That's true, and even if one has read one of the bills in it's entirety, there is still another thousand or more pages of another bill that could differ, and then like you said, in conference they will be compromising and rewriting it again.
Though the Public option is only 12 pages out of the 1900 pages of the House Bill, so there certainly is not any focus on the the Public option in that bill that could not be understood imho....
I don't believe price caps on our already existing medicare is hurting the research and development in the medical field for seniors....?
why would that change?
care
Unless you've read the bill from cover to cover and totally understand it I don't think you can say that.
And.....what's worse is they still aren't finished writing the stupid thing.
That's true, and even if one has read one of the bills in it's entirety, there is still another thousand or more pages of another bill that could differ, and then like you said, in conference they will be compromising and rewriting it again.
Though the Public option is only 12 pages out of the 1900 pages of the House Bill, so there certainly is not any focus on the the Public option in that bill that could not be understood imho....
I don't believe price caps on our already existing medicare is hurting the research and development in the medical field for seniors....?
why would that change?
care
Because as it stands right now capitalism still prevails. As it stands now, there are still insurance companies that have to compete. In order to compete they have to pay the going rate to cover procedures. When government becomes the monopoly in the medical services and research industries then things change. When the government tells the doctors you will only charge $5000 for a heart transplant, the doctor is going to go find a new profession.
When they start telling the medical research companies that they will only pay so much per dosage of AIDS medication and the research companies can't survive on the government pittance, research is going to die.
Immie
We are being taken for a ride. This health care bill is merely a vehicle that the Dems want to use to control every facet of our lives. And what is even worse not everyone is getting coverage nor does it kick in for another 4 years.....but of course the tax increases begin this coming January.
There are plenty of questions about this bill that very few of us are aware of.
Somebody explain first of all why language is in the bill that says it won't kick in till after 2013 or 2014. I've heard that it will take that long to get it going. This argument is bogus because their primary reason for passing it is to save lives.....lives that they claim will be lost without it. So why does it take years for it to go into effect?
Another thing is not only does it cut Medicare but millions of Americans will still never receive coverage. To top it off they're floating recommendations already about screening for breast-cancer, prostrate-cancer, and now cervical-cancer. You have to put off checking yourself for this cancer according to the powers that be because someone in Washington decided you don't need it. Pap smears won't be recommended until a woman reaches her 30s. I wonder how many women in their 20s will die from cancer because they had to wait a few years to get the proper screening that is in place today.
Here in Tennessee Tenn Care went broke and 400,000 beneficiaries had to be removed from coverage just to keep it afloat. I think we can expect the same from national health care.
More jobs will be lost and more will have to rely on the government to survive.
No, not everyone will be covered, but you will get free abortions, and you will be forced out of your present health care eventually, and your taxes will increase to the point that you will not be able to control your income. All funds will have to be deposited into a government monitored bank account and whatever is left over after all of the new fees and taxes are taken out will be yours.....and you will learn to love it.
I know just exterminate anyone that was born between 1942 & 1965 & that will eliminate the problem.
That's true, and even if one has read one of the bills in it's entirety, there is still another thousand or more pages of another bill that could differ, and then like you said, in conference they will be compromising and rewriting it again.
Though the Public option is only 12 pages out of the 1900 pages of the House Bill, so there certainly is not any focus on the the Public option in that bill that could not be understood imho....
I don't believe price caps on our already existing medicare is hurting the research and development in the medical field for seniors....?
why would that change?
care
Because as it stands right now capitalism still prevails. As it stands now, there are still insurance companies that have to compete. In order to compete they have to pay the going rate to cover procedures. When government becomes the monopoly in the medical services and research industries then things change. When the government tells the doctors you will only charge $5000 for a heart transplant, the doctor is going to go find a new profession.
When they start telling the medical research companies that they will only pay so much per dosage of AIDS medication and the research companies can't survive on the government pittance, research is going to die.
Immie
But Immie, you do realize that insurance companies DO THIS NOW, with hospitals and doctors....they pay near half of the going rate for these procedures....they discount their price of what they will pay the hospitals for it, JUST LIKE MEDICARE....
HAS THIS stopped research and development and advancement of medicine?
HECK NO!
Once they combine the House bill with the Senate bill more will be covered but still millions will be left out in the cold.
Once they combine the House bill with the Senate bill more will be covered but still millions will be left out in the cold.
Until they grow the balls to enact single-payer, we won't have "universal health care".
This really pisses me off...
Just one question? How do they "cut" 400--500 Billion from Medicare-when there are Millions of baby-boomers forced onto Medicare now & will continue to be for the next 15 years.
Sounds like rationing of health care or some very fuzzy math to me--
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