Now….About That ‘Surprise’ Attack…..

[JoeB131]

Oh, man, you see, Political Chick is what happens when you lock up your Mail Order Bride and make her listen to Hate Radio all day.

 

[PoliticalChic]

1.I hate to give away the answer up front…but, yup…..everyone knew. (Psssst….Japanese planes sunk an American warship almost exactly four years before Pearl Harbor. A Clue….ya’ think?)

Um, yeah, the USS Panay, a ship that was in China enforcing American imperialism....

Well….to be more precise, Franklin Roosevelt didn’t appear to know….and government school grads still don’t know.

2. Japan knew, the Germans knew- Japan’s allies, the British knew- they sent a spy to make sure the White House knew, the Soviets knew- they had planned it, even Korean-American Kilsoo Haan knew-…more about him later.

Okay, we are going to go into Crazy town here...

Most Americans expected a war with Japan. A lot of people didn't expect a successful aircraft carrier attack because most of the Naval thinking was still in a mindset of battleships, not aircraft carriers, which were still a relatively new thing.

Surprise????
Pearl Harbor….Did Anyone Know It Was Coming????
December 7th....this date.....1941.... 2,335 military personnel killed, 1,177 were killed on board the U.S.S. Arizona.
Was it worth it to preserve the Soviet Union?????

This is where you are a little confused. We didn't "save" the USSR, the USSR saved the rest of the world from the Axis.

"Most Americans expected a war with Japan. "



Sooooo......Franklin Roosevelt wasn't really an American?


Hmmmmm......I suspected as much.


Might be why he ignored the constant complaints from the admirals in charge of the fleet.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Oh, man, you see, Political Chick is what happens when you lock up your Mail Order Bride and make her listen to Hate Radio all day.

The Green-Eyed Monster of jealousy rears its ugly head!


No worries, ErroneousJoe.......for Christmas I got you the Michael Jackson Home Facial Reconstruction Kit.


Maybe you'll have more luck in the future.....

 

[PoliticalChic]

1.I hate to give away the answer up front…but, yup…..everyone knew. (Psssst….Japanese planes sunk an American warship almost exactly four years before Pearl Harbor. A Clue….ya’ think?)

Um, yeah, the USS Panay, a ship that was in China enforcing American imperialism....

Well….to be more precise, Franklin Roosevelt didn’t appear to know….and government school grads still don’t know.

2. Japan knew, the Germans knew- Japan’s allies, the British knew- they sent a spy to make sure the White House knew, the Soviets knew- they had planned it, even Korean-American Kilsoo Haan knew-…more about him later.

Okay, we are going to go into Crazy town here...

Most Americans expected a war with Japan. A lot of people didn't expect a successful aircraft carrier attack because most of the Naval thinking was still in a mindset of battleships, not aircraft carriers, which were still a relatively new thing.

Surprise????
Pearl Harbor….Did Anyone Know It Was Coming????
December 7th....this date.....1941.... 2,335 military personnel killed, 1,177 were killed on board the U.S.S. Arizona.
Was it worth it to preserve the Soviet Union?????

This is where you are a little confused. We didn't "save" the USSR, the USSR saved the rest of the world from the Axis.

Germany made an unrecoverable/drastic/fatal error when it attacked Russia
...there was no way Germany could defeat Russia, much less England/Russia/the Balkans/etc
..the Communists resistance in France/etc started to get active when Germany attacked Russia
Russia is too big/too big of a population
Russia would never surrender--Germany INVADED them
etc to infinity

"This is where you are a little confused. We didn't "save" the USSR, the USSR saved the rest of the world from the Axis."


Only an ignorant, Bolshevik-loving anti-American would advance that sort of propaganda.


Raise your paw.

 

[PoliticalChic]

..no one knew are even thought PH would be attacked
this is basic, common knowledge for anyone that has read anything about PH

Totally false.


The FDR administration was warned over and over.


Were it not for Roosevelt's desire to ingratiate himself with Stalin, and 'offer' Pearl to the Japanese, with the hopes that they wouldn't attack his beloved Soviet Union, he never would have ordered the fleet to remain in Hawaii.


This says it all:

Roosevelt: "I would rather lose New Zealand, Australia or anything else than have the Russian front collapse."
Robert Dallek, "Franklin D. Roosevelt and American Foreign Policy, 1932-1945," p. 338.


Yup!
'Russia Uber Alles'

What nation did Roosevelt represent, again?

 

[PoliticalChic]

If FDR wanted the US to get involved in war, why would he choose to get a poorly prepared US military involved in a war on two fronts?

FDR is the reason WHY the American military was so poorly prepared. General MacArthur personally lobbied Roosevelt to properly fund the American military , but FDR insisted on wasting money on his "Raw Deal" initiatives.

The ironic thing is, if America had built up its defensive capabilities between 1933 and 1939, neither Germany nor Japan would have pulled the shit they did by starting WWII- a war that we are STILL paying for at the nation's VA hospitals and pensions being paid for service in the Roosevelt World War.

Had FDR listened to MacArthur and armed this nation, Hitler would have thought twice and would have likely thought that the Holocaust wasn't such a copacetic idea as it would piss off America. And even if he did pull that foolishness, the war would have been over quickly.

..they just started rebuilding/enlarging the military when it was drastically cut after WW1
anyone with extensive military knowledge knows it takes time to:
build the ships
---getting those new ships ready for sea/testing/sea trials/etc
processing recruits into the military
--training those troops
----moving those troops where needed
arming/fitting/supplying those ships/troops/bases [ie = Wake Island ]
PH was still in the process of enlarging/increasing/supplying itself
etc etc etc
TIME TIME--it all takes massive amounts of time--it's NOT like a movie where it takes a few minutes

please please--
some of you have very limited knowledge on the subject
......more importantly, you think in TV/movie/unrealistic terms--as do a lot of people on a lot of aspects

Of course you know less than nothing.

. The United States under Franklin Roosevelt was far from a world class military force:
"...a historian’s July 22, 2010, article on President Franklin Roosevelt and Great Britain in WW II. David Woolner wrote that in June 1939, which was three months before England declared war on Germany, "the roughly 180,000-man U.S. Army ranked 19th in the world--smaller than Portugal’s!"
U.S. army was smaller than the army for Portugal before World War II



FDR's hatred of the successful was so intense, the wanted to tax them at a marginal rate of 100%....

"FDR proposed a 100 percent top tax rate. At a time of “grave national danger,” Roosevelt told Congress in April 1942, “no American citizen ought to have a net income, after he has paid his taxes, of more than $25,000 a year.”
When Income Was Taxed at 94%: How FDR Tackled Debt and Reckless Republicans




He hated them and only when war was on the horizon did he promise not to nationalize industry:
He suddenly needed capitalism!


1. Careful students of the Roosevelt presidency knew that war must be near because FDR had decided to change the tone of the political debate in Washington. For almost eight years, Wall Street bankers and corporate leaders had been his favorite scapegoats for explaining why the Great Depression was persisting. The premise of his New Deal, after all was that businessmen had failed and that government should regulate, plan and direct much of the American economy to break the hold of the Great Depression.”

2. On May 16, 1940, Roosevelt had addressed Congress and asked for more than a billion dollars for defense, with a commitment for fifty thousand military aircraft. He knew, also, that he needed the good will of business to win the war: no longer would he call them “privileged princes…thirsting for power.”


3. On May 26, 1940 his Fireside Chat signaled a new relationship with business: he would insure their profits, and assuage their fears that he would nationalize their factories.
a. “…we are calling upon the resources, the efficiency and the ingenuity of the American manufacturers of war material of all kinds -- airplanes and tanks and guns and ships, and all the hundreds of products that go into this material. The Government of the United States itself manufactures few of the implements of war. Private industry will continue to be the source of most of this material, and private industry will have to be speeded up to produce it at the rate and efficiency called for by the needs of the times…. Private industry will have the responsibility of providing the best, speediest and most efficient mass production of which it is capable.” On National Defense - May 26, 1940

 

[PoliticalChic]

If FDR wanted the US to get involved in war, why would he choose to get a poorly prepared US military involved in a war on two fronts?

FDR is the reason WHY the American military was so poorly prepared. General MacArthur personally lobbied Roosevelt to properly fund the American military , but FDR insisted on wasting money on his "Raw Deal" initiatives.

The ironic thing is, if America had built up its defensive capabilities between 1933 and 1939, neither Germany nor Japan would have pulled the shit they did by starting WWII- a war that we are STILL paying for at the nation's VA hospitals and pensions being paid for service in the Roosevelt World War.

Had FDR listened to MacArthur and armed this nation, Hitler would have thought twice and would have likely thought that the Holocaust wasn't such a copacetic idea as it would piss off America. And even if he did pull that foolishness, the war would have been over quickly.

..they just started rebuilding/enlarging the military when it was drastically cut after WW1
anyone with extensive military knowledge knows it takes time to:
build the ships
---getting those new ships ready for sea/testing/sea trials/etc
processing recruits into the military
--training those troops
----moving those troops where needed
arming/fitting/supplying those ships/troops/bases [ie = Wake Island ]
PH was still in the process of enlarging/increasing/supplying itself
etc etc etc
TIME TIME--it all takes massive amounts of time--it's NOT like a movie where it takes a few minutes

please please--
some of you have very limited knowledge on the subject
......more importantly, you think in TV/movie/unrealistic terms--as do a lot of people on a lot of aspects

My post are linked, sourced and documented.

You, on the other hand, are our best source of greenhouse gases.



May I guess.....you're a government school grad, huh?

 

[PoliticalChic]

If FDR wanted the US to get involved in war, why would he choose to get a poorly prepared US military involved in a war on two fronts?

FDR is the reason WHY the American military was so poorly prepared. General MacArthur personally lobbied Roosevelt to properly fund the American military , but FDR insisted on wasting money on his "Raw Deal" initiatives.

The ironic thing is, if America had built up its defensive capabilities between 1933 and 1939, neither Germany nor Japan would have pulled the shit they did by starting WWII- a war that we are STILL paying for at the nation's VA hospitals and pensions being paid for service in the Roosevelt World War.

Had FDR listened to MacArthur and armed this nation, Hitler would have thought twice and would have likely thought that the Holocaust wasn't such a copacetic idea as it would piss off America. And even if he did pull that foolishness, the war would have been over quickly.

..they just started rebuilding/enlarging the military when it was drastically cut after WW1
anyone with extensive military knowledge knows it takes time to:
build the ships
---getting those new ships ready for sea/testing/sea trials/etc
processing recruits into the military
--training those troops
----moving those troops where needed
arming/fitting/supplying those ships/troops/bases [ie = Wake Island ]
PH was still in the process of enlarging/increasing/supplying itself
etc etc etc
TIME TIME--it all takes massive amounts of time--it's NOT like a movie where it takes a few minutes

please please--
some of you have very limited knowledge on the subject
......more importantly, you think in TV/movie/unrealistic terms--as do a lot of people on a lot of aspects

President Roosevelt had more than 6 years between his inauguration in 1933 and when WWII festivities broke out in 1939 to build up America's military but really didn't do it. But he really didn't seem to care, diverting the nation's resources to wasteful programs.

Why would he care......his buddies were Hitler, Mussolini, and Stalin.

He co-opted Mussolini's plan and called it the New Deal

Hitler's peeps wrote this about their pal, Franklin:

1. The National Socialists hailed these ‘relief measures’ in ways you will recognize:
   1. May 11, 1933, the Nazi newspaper Volkischer Beobachter, (People’s Observer): “Roosevelt’s Dictatorial Recovery Measures.”
   2. And on January 17, 1934, “We, too, as German National Socialists are looking toward America…” and “Roosevelt’s adoption of National Socialist strains of thought in his economic and social policies” comparable to Hitler’s own dictatorial ‘Fuhrerprinzip.’
   3. And “[Roosevelt], too demands that collective good be put before individual self-interest. Many passages in his book ‘Looking Forward’ could have been written by a National Socialist….one can assume that he feels considerable affinity with the National Socialist philosophy.”
   4. The paper also refers to “…the fictional appearance of democracy.”

But....his first love was Joseph Stalin, and the Soviet Union.

" Fascism did not acquire an evil name in Washington until Hitler became a menace to·the Soviet Union."
Manly, "The Twenty Year Revolution," p. 48

 

[PoliticalChic]

If FDR wanted the US to get involved in war, why would he choose to get a poorly prepared US military involved in a war on two fronts?

FDR is the reason WHY the American military was so poorly prepared. General MacArthur personally lobbied Roosevelt to properly fund the American military , but FDR insisted on wasting money on his "Raw Deal" initiatives.

The ironic thing is, if America had built up its defensive capabilities between 1933 and 1939, neither Germany nor Japan would have pulled the shit they did by starting WWII- a war that we are STILL paying for at the nation's VA hospitals and pensions being paid for service in the Roosevelt World War.

Had FDR listened to MacArthur and armed this nation, Hitler would have thought twice and would have likely thought that the Holocaust wasn't such a copacetic idea as it would piss off America. And even if he did pull that foolishness, the war would have been over quickly.

..they just started rebuilding/enlarging the military when it was drastically cut after WW1
anyone with extensive military knowledge knows it takes time to:
build the ships
---getting those new ships ready for sea/testing/sea trials/etc
processing recruits into the military
--training those troops
----moving those troops where needed
arming/fitting/supplying those ships/troops/bases [ie = Wake Island ]
PH was still in the process of enlarging/increasing/supplying itself
etc etc etc
TIME TIME--it all takes massive amounts of time--it's NOT like a movie where it takes a few minutes

please please--
some of you have very limited knowledge on the subject
......more importantly, you think in TV/movie/unrealistic terms--as do a lot of people on a lot of aspects

President Roosevelt had more than 6 years between his inauguration in 1933 and when WWII festivities broke out in 1939 to build up America's military but really didn't do it. But he really didn't seem to care, diverting the nation's resources to wasteful programs.

1. he's not concentrating on developing the military right in the middle of the Great Depression!!!
2. the POTUS needs Congress/etc approval-DOLLARS to build up the military--
..a. politicians are not going to spend huge amounts of $$$$ for the military right in the middle of the Great Depression
..b. many were isolationist = they didn't think we needed to build up the military
..look how hard it is now for the POTUS/Congress/etc to agree on just funding the government when there is NOT a Great Depression
etc etc

The Depression caused the United States to retreat further into its post-World War I isolationism

reduced its military presence in the region and improved relations between itself and its neighbors to the south. Presidents Hoover and Roosevelt were to an extent constrained by public opinion, which demanded that primary attention be given to domestic problems

The Great Depression and U.S. Foreign Policy
etc to infinity

. "he's not concentrating on developing the military right in the middle of the Great Depression!!!"

You dunce......FDR created that "Great Depression"
"FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate. Two UCLA economists say they have figured out why the Great Depression dragged on for almost 15 years, and they blame a suspect previously thought to be beyond reproach: President Franklin D. Roosevelt."
FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists ...

newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/FDR-s-Policies-Prolonged-Depression-5409





And to really shred your stupid post, Germany was in the same 'depression,' yet built a huge armed forces and offered all the Liberal policies you love:

Workers Welfare Programs:

In the best passage of Government largess, the Nazi regime fostered a purified liberal concept to enhance the living standard of German citizens across all segments of society. In order to stimulate the spirit of integrity, comradeship and happiness, Adolf Hitler fanned numerous programs and instituted strict rules for officials to carry them in eternal way.

a) Highly Subsidized International vacation trips.

b) Between 1933-1938 Strength through Joy (KDF) movement Organized 134,000 theater and concert events for 32 million people. 2 million people went on cruises and weekend trips and 11 million went on theater trips.

c) Nazis ensured that every citizen had a Radio.

d) 5 day week.

e) Free Public Health....(ObamaCare???)

f) Trade Unions were banned. All workers had to join German labor Front. Strikes for higher wages were banned. People who refused to work were imprisoned. With fall in Inflation, purchasing power increased and wages actually fell.

g) Large factories had to provide rest areas, cafeterias, dressing rooms, even playing fields and swimming pools

h) They also banned "lock outs" for industries. No "reverse strikes"for them either.

LIES YOUR TEACHER TAUGHT YOU: Nazi Hitler Economic Social and Political Policies

 

[PoliticalChic]

President Roosevelt had more than 6 years between his inauguration in 1933 and when WWII festivities broke out in 1939 to build up America's military but really didn't do it.

FDR had started gearing up America's industrial might by building ships, airplanes, and munitions, for Russia and Great Britain under the lend lease program, well before the U.S. officially became a belligerent in WWll. ...

And Lend Lease was the idea that Stalin told Roosevelt to initiate....


"The millionaire industrialist, Armand Hammer played a key role in laying the foundations of Lend-Lease. As a dyed-in-the-wool collaborator of Lenin´s and Stalin’s in procuring Western, especially American, assistance in the industrialization of the USSR..... in November 1940 Armand Hammer met with FDR in the White House. He and the president discussed the idea of developing American military assistance to Britain, the Neutrality Act and Roosevelt’s campaign promises not to embroil the United States in the European war to the contrary. Roosevelt thereupon suggested to Hammer that he discuss this plan with Harry Hopkins. Hopkins twice traveled to New York City, Hammer´s base of operations, to discuss this idea with officials and businessmen there.”
justice4germans.com

a. The program was finally authorized by Congress and signed into effect on March 11, 1941. By November, after much heated debate, Congress extended the terms of Lend-Lease to the Soviet Union, even though the USSR had already been the recipient of American military weapons and had been promised $1 billion in financial aid.
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/fdr-signs-lend-lease

 

[PoliticalChic]

There are a number of times Americans were sacrificed.......sacrificed......by Roosevelt, for Stalin's benefit.

FDR and his commie wife Eleanor were enamored with the USSR.

Many times FDR caved in to Stalins demands over the objections of Churchill, who knew that communism was evil and that Stalin couldn't be trusted. ....

The false notion that either FDR's infatuations began due to a need for the Soviet Union in WWII, he rushed to recognize them in 1933- was the first hint.

Consider the following:

a. As former ambassador William Bullitt queried him about why he persuaded the public that "communists had become the friends of democracy" and that he should remind all "that Communists in the United States are just as dangerous enemies as ever, and should not be allowed to crawl into our productive mechanism in order later to wreck it when they get new orders from somewhere abroad."
" "For the President Personal & Secret: Correspondence Between Franklin D. Roosevelt and William C. Bullitt," Orville H. Bullitt, p. 522


b. Roosevelt threw himself into shoring up the USSR at any cost- in July of 1942 he lost 23 out of 34 ships in just one Lend-Lease supply voyage
c. ...151,000 troops were left unsupplied in the Philippines....
d. ....the British colony of Singapore was left without air cover in order to satisfy Stalin's desire for the planes. Found in Paul Johnson's "Modern Times," 'included 200 modern fighter aircraft, originally intended for Britain's highly vulnerable base in Singapore, which had no modern fighters at all. The diversion of these aircraft, plus tanks, to Russia sealed the fate of Singapore." Johnson, Op.Cit., p. 386.

Singapore fell February 15, 1942.

 

[PoliticalChic]

1.I hate to give away the answer up front…but, yup…..everyone knew. (Psssst….Japanese planes sunk an American warship almost exactly four years before Pearl Harbor. A Clue….ya’ think?)

Um, yeah, the USS Panay, a ship that was in China enforcing American imperialism....

Well….to be more precise, Franklin Roosevelt didn’t appear to know….and government school grads still don’t know.

2. Japan knew, the Germans knew- Japan’s allies, the British knew- they sent a spy to make sure the White House knew, the Soviets knew- they had planned it, even Korean-American Kilsoo Haan knew-…more about him later.

Okay, we are going to go into Crazy town here...

Most Americans expected a war with Japan. A lot of people didn't expect a successful aircraft carrier attack because most of the Naval thinking was still in a mindset of battleships, not aircraft carriers, which were still a relatively new thing.

Surprise????
Pearl Harbor….Did Anyone Know It Was Coming????
December 7th....this date.....1941.... 2,335 military personnel killed, 1,177 were killed on board the U.S.S. Arizona.
Was it worth it to preserve the Soviet Union?????

This is where you are a little confused. We didn't "save" the USSR, the USSR saved the rest of the world from the Axis.

Germany made an unrecoverable/drastic/fatal error when it attacked Russia
...there was no way Germany could defeat Russia, much less England/Russia/the Balkans/etc
..the Communists resistance in France/etc started to get active when Germany attacked Russia
Russia is too big/too big of a population
Russia would never surrender--Germany INVADED them
etc to infinity

Exactly.....proving that there was no need for FDR to bend over and grab his ankles for Stalin.

 

[Sunni Man]

Personally I think the world would have been a lot better off if FDR would have abandoned his Raw Deal program and instead made America strong enough militarily that Hitler wouldn't have even considered pissing us off by starting the Holocaust.

The so called Holocaust was a minor event during WWll and wasn't factored into U.S. military strategy or planning of the war effort. ...

 

[Sunni Man]

We didn't "save" the USSR, the USSR saved the rest of the world from the Axis.

Incorrect on several levels. ...

1) A decade earlier Stalin had executed most of the military leadership and officer corps. Leaving the command structure in disarray and staffed by inexperienced officers.

2) Soviet weapons hadn't been upgraded to modern standards, and were no match against the latest German armament and fighter planes.

3) Stalin was constantly begging FDR and Churchill to invade occupied France and start a second front against Germany in order to take pressure off the Soviet soldiers who were barely holding their own against the superior German war machine.

4) The USSR had millions of men to fight but little to fight with.

5) If not for America's ability to supply the Soviet army with vast quantities of weapon's and munitions. Russia would have lost the war to Germany.

 

[PoliticalChic]

We didn't "save" the USSR, the USSR saved the rest of the world from the Axis.

Incorrect on several levels. ...

1) A decade earlier Stalin had executed most of the military leadership and officer corps. Leaving the command structure in disarray and staffed by inexperienced officers.

2) Soviet weapons hadn't been upgraded to modern standards, and were no match against the latest German armament and fighter planes.

3) Stalin was constantly begging FDR and Churchill to invade occupied France and start a second front against Germany in order to take pressure off the Soviet soldiers who were barely holding their own against the superior German war machine.

4) The USSR had millions of men to fight but little to fight with.

5) If not for America's ability to supply the Soviet army with vast quantities of weapon's and munitions. Russia would have lost the war to Germany.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on several points, Sunni

1. "...no match against the latest German armament and fighter planes."
Stalin fueled the German army with resources the Nazis didn't have to run their Blitzkrieg. They were allies until June of '41.

2. Hitler knew who Stalin's three greatest weapons were, tried to avoid them....but once they entered the war, Germany was finished: they were December, January, and February.
It's the reason Hitler attacked in June.
Would have attacked even earlier, but Italy needed him at the time.


3. "Stalin was constantly begging FDR and Churchill to invade occupied France and start a second front against Germany in order to take pressure off the Soviet soldiers...."
Stalin demanded his serf, FDR, attack Fortress Europa via the west coast, Normandy, rather than Italy which had already been conquered, so as to leave all of Eastern Europe to the Red Army.
BTW....Eisenhower also felt Italy was the best venue for D-Day, until Marshall and Roosevelt offered him that fifth star.


4. Russians hated Stalin...
The 850,000 strong army of Gen. Andrei Andreyevich Vlasov, having gone to the other side, Germany, "to save their country from Stalin" and having later surrendered to US forces, "formed the core of those forcebly repatritated between 1944 and 1947."
"Operation Keelhaul; The Story of Forced Repatriation from 1944 to the Present.by Julius Epstein p.27, 53.


a. Gen. Deniken, former commanding general of the White Russian armies which were supported by the USA in 1917-1920, explained that none of these men served in the Nazi army out of love for Germany..."they hated the Germans" he wrote....rather, they knew what awaited them in the 'Soviet paradise.

b. More than a million Soviet citizens joined the Nazis. Ask yourself this: why was it that the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army. "The Secret Betrayal"byNikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.

A number of Russians committed suicide rather than go back after the war.



5. "If not for America's ability to supply the Soviet army with vast quantities of weapon's and munitions. Russia would have lost the war to Germany."
No chance.
"....realistically middle sized Germany could not defeat the much larger Ussr in the long term. Germany would have eventually surrendered to the western allies to prevent total occupation by the USSR ..."
So did the Red Army really singlehandedly defeat the Third Reich Stuff I Done Wrote - The Michael A. Charles Online Presence (comment)


6. "Between June 22, 1941, and January 31, 1942, the Germans had lost 6,000 airplanes and more than 3,200 tanks and similar vehicles; and no less than 918,000 men had been killed, wounded, or gone missing in action, amounting to 28.7 percent of the average strength of the army, namely, 3,2 million men.[33]

(In the Soviet Union, Germany would lose no less than 10 million of its total 13.5 million men killed, wounded, or taken prisoner during the entire war; and the Red Army would end up claiming credit for 90 per cent of all Germans killed in the Second World War.)
Clive Ponting, 'Armageddon: The Second World War,' p. 130; Stephen E. Ambrose 'Americans at War,' p. 72. ”





How'd I do?

Convince you?

 

[Sunni Man]

Hitler's had two main objectives he wanted to accomplish in his invasion of Russia.

Was to decapitate the Soviet leadership and eradicate communism from the country. And to occupy the Ukraine and incorporate it into the German mainland.

Hitler had no desire to send his troop's further into Russia and occupy Siberia, and would have sued for peace with the new Russian government, with eastern Ukraine as the new German border. ...

 

[PoliticalChic]

Hitler's had two main objectives he wanted to accomplish in his invasion of Russia.

Was to decapitate the Soviet leadership and eradicate communism from the country. And to occupy the Ukraine and incorporate it into the German mainland.

Hitler had no desire to send his troop's further into Russia and occupy Siberia, and would have sued for peace with the new Russian government, with eastern Ukraine as the new German border. ...

1.Do you imagine that Stalin would have allowed that?

Stalin knew that Hitler would never defeat him.

2. Nazi Germany population, 80 million, vs Soviet Russia, 170 million and all the natural resources plus the Ukrainian bread-basket



But, Adolf was all about eradicating communism.


Quite the change, as Nazi doctrine was based on Karl Marx

A year after Lenin's death, 1924, the NYTimes published a small article about a newly established party in Germany, the National Socialist Labor Party, which "...persists in believing that Lenin and Hitler can be compared or contrasted...Dr. Goebell's....assertion that Lenin was the greatest man second only to Hitler....and that the difference between communism and the Hitler faith was very slight...." November 27, 1925

Common parade of German Wehrmachtand Soviet Red Army on September 23, 1939 in Brest, Eastern Poland at the end of the Poland Campaign. In the center is Major General Heinz Guderian; and on the right is Brigadier General Semyon Krivoshein.

 

[harmonica]

We didn't "save" the USSR, the USSR saved the rest of the world from the Axis.

Incorrect on several levels. ...

1) A decade earlier Stalin had executed most of the military leadership and officer corps. Leaving the command structure in disarray and staffed by inexperienced officers.

2) Soviet weapons hadn't been upgraded to modern standards, and were no match against the latest German armament and fighter planes.

3) Stalin was constantly begging FDR and Churchill to invade occupied France and start a second front against Germany in order to take pressure off the Soviet soldiers who were barely holding their own against the superior German war machine.

4) The USSR had millions of men to fight but little to fight with.

5) If not for America's ability to supply the Soviet army with vast quantities of weapon's and munitions. Russia would have lost the war to Germany.

no way no way no way Germany was going to defeat Russia
plain and simple

first and most importantly, just like in the 1. Revolutionary War and the 2. Vietnam War,
1. the US did not have to win--just not lose
2. the North Vietnamese did not have to win--just not lose
3. in WW2 Russia did not have to win--just not lose
Remember, Germany still had troops in the Balkans, France, AND North Africa--which lasted till May 1943!!!
Germany bit off more than she could chew
LOGISTICS Germany can't handle England AND Russia AND North Africa along with troops in France, the Balkans, AND Norway


....there are not many examples , if at all, of single countries totally occupying/totally defeating/winning etc other countries post 1939
---Germany defeated France--but was still at war- with England-with resistance in France/Balkans/Italy/etc
....please look at the map below and tell me what you see regarding the land mass of Russia vs Germany

Clausewitz:

1. We must select for our attack one point of the enemy's position (i.e., one section of his troops—a division, a corps) and attack it with great superiority,

--Russia is too BIG!

9. Long and unbroken lines of troops should be avoided completely. They would lead only to parallel attacks, which today are no longer feasible.

just as when Germans retreated to Germany, her lines of communication/logistics were closer--defense is easier/etc
Russian lines are getting smaller--Germany's longer as she moves into Russia
it gets more difficult exponentially the longer you extend your forces

12. One of the strongest weapons of offensive warfare is the surprise attack

--after 1941--no surprise
etc
...along with LOGISTICS--the killer/winner of battles--no way the Germans are going to be able to supply Germans efficiently the farther they go into Russia
...here is the PROOF that undeniable refutes lend lease helped Russia defeat Germany-per Stalingrad:

Clausewitz: The Principles of War
https://www.quora.com/In-WW2-if-the...s-Russia-Or-would-Russia-still-have-prevailed
AND finally --Stalingrad was over by Feb 1943!! = end of Germany's offense in Russia = Russia does not lose

 

[Sunni Man]

A year after Lenin's death, 1924, the NYTimes published a small article about a newly established party in Germany, the National Socialist Labor Party, which "...persists in believing that Lenin and Hitler can be compared or contrasted...Dr. Goebell's....assertion that Lenin was the greatest man second only to Hitler....and that the difference between communism and the Hitler faith was very slight...." November 27, 1925

Liberals like to claim that Hitler and the Nazis were members of the "right" wing.

In reality, Hitler's National Socialist Party and Stalin's Communist Party were just two sides of the "leftist" ideology coin. ...

 

[PoliticalChic]

A year after Lenin's death, 1924, the NYTimes published a small article about a newly established party in Germany, the National Socialist Labor Party, which "...persists in believing that Lenin and Hitler can be compared or contrasted...Dr. Goebell's....assertion that Lenin was the greatest man second only to Hitler....and that the difference between communism and the Hitler faith was very slight...." November 27, 1925

Liberals like to claim that Hitler and the Nazis are members of the "right" wing.

In reality, Hitler's National Socialist Party and Stalin's Communist Party were just two sides of the "leftist" ideology coin. ...

Absolutely.

The Nazis endorsed the same welfare policies a the Democrat Party, and there is no daylight between what the communist party stood for, and what the Democrats do.