Obama, Stephanopoulos Spar Over Definition of 'Tax'

[pal_of_poor]

I'm going to have to agree with Stephanopolis on this one, fines, tickets, fees, are all a different method of taxation. Towns that have speed-traps have just decided on pushing a pass-through tax. It is about the most direct taxation.

That fine needs to be thrown out. My worst nightmare is that they'll pass the bill with the fine, and without the public option.

Why not have the public option, and make it cost about that, or perhaps a bit less, instead of fining those who are your voters, for one thing, and likely to be the poorest. Apparently that is about what they think it'll cost on average, when you don't have insurance, and have to go to the emergency room.

I still don't know how one of the many, many unemployed, are going to purchase insurance. What, you go you buy it, and when it comes time to pay, you say "take it out of my tax credits." If you don't make any money, if you don't have any money, how are you going to pay it in the first place. I think a lot of these congressmen think we've all got a few hundred thousand sitting in the bank, like them, or something of the sort, and we're just choosing to not buy it. I know that not to be the case.

In any case, the "fine-tax" needs to be purged. We see how stupid and complicated things are when we try to mold a really shitty method of doing health care, insurance, into a different form. We just need single-payer, or medicare "E", medicare for everyone else.

 

[mal]

Obama: Mandate is Not a Tax - George's Bottom Line

STEPHANOPOULOS: I -- I don't think I'm making it up. Merriam Webster's Dictionary: Tax -- "a charge, usually of money, imposed by authority on persons or property for public purposes."

OBAMA: George, the fact that you looked up Merriam's Dictionary, the definition of tax increase, indicates to me that you're stretching a little bit right now. Otherwise, you wouldn't have gone to the dictionary to check on the definition. I mean what...

STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, no, but...

OBAMA: ...what you're saying is...

STEPHANOPOULOS: I wanted to check for myself. But your critics say it is a tax increase.

OBAMA: My critics say everything is a tax increase. My critics say that I'm taking over every sector of the economy. You know that. Look, we can have a legitimate debate about whether or not we're going to have an individual mandate or not, but...

STEPHANOPOULOS: But you reject that it’s a tax increase?

OBAMA: I absolutely reject that notion.



Of course, George let him Off WAY too Easy...

But the Illustration was Classic.



peace...


threads merged-del

 

[The Rabbi]

We need a public option if we want to bankrupt the system.
A public option will guarantee non-passage. Of course lack of a public option will guarantee non-passage as well.

 

[keee keee]

I wished someone on one of the five sunday morning shows would of ask him about his involvement with Acorn past and current. Or ask him to release his school records.

 

[Big Black Dog]

Yeah, right... My ex-wife used to swear she wasn't having an "affair" with the next door neighbor - she was only screwing him. Sounds like the same kind of deal to me. Just like I did with her, I'm more than ready to divorce myself from Obama.

 

[VaYank5150]

So, that means you have to force people who aren't burdening the system to pay for that?

Hint: It's only a relatively small percentage of the much ballyhooed "47 million uninsured" who are the burden upon the system.

Moreover, they aren't the exclusive, nor even a significant, reason for the high costs.

So, are you saying we should not attempt to get these people off the hook? Continue making people like myself pay for health insurance for not only MY family, but for those who CHOOSE not to buyu health insurance?

You fail to see the bigger picture.

ONLY those above a certain income (Something like 40K) who don't get health insurance will have this tax. The rest? DON'T have to get insurance and WON'T have this tax!

So see? You will STILL have the "burdens on the system" you had before this idiotic tax and they WON'T be paid for by the tax!! Because not enough folks will be paying the "fine!"

Try some honesty: The TAX on cigarettes and tobacco products, and alcohol: They CALL it a TAX because that's exactly what it is. The purpose of the tax is to punish you for doing these mean old, nasty and unhealthy habits. BUT THEY DON'T TRY TO LIE AND SAY IT ISN'T A FUCKING TAX BECAUSE IT IS!

Taxing soda pop. They CALL it a tax. The purpose of the tax is to punish you for feeding your kids this mean old sugar water. BUT THEY DON'T TRY TO LIE AND SAY IT ISN'T A FUCKING TAX BECAUSE IT IS!

This is the same goddamned fucking thing. It is a TAX whose purpose is to PUNISH your ass for not having health insurance! CALL IT A GODDAMNED FUCKING TAX THEN!!!! BECAUSE THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT IT IS!!!

If you don't have auto insurance, is that verified by the IRS? NO.

THIS IS! AND IF YOU DON'T HAVE A APPROVED HEALTH INSURANCE POLICY THEY ARE GONNA TAX YOU!

Have just one tiny amount of honesty about you! Stephanopoulos did! You REALLY think the folks out there are gonna BUY this bullshit of it not being a tax?

C'mon now...

Cigarette taxes have always been called a tax. I am 41, so as long as the tax has been around for me, it has been called a tax.

There is not tax in place on sugary sodas yet, but I am very hopeful one will come into play very soon. Fast food should be next.

And let's not forget that the whole purpose of overhauling our healthcare system was to get insurance for those who cannot afford it. While <$40K sounds a little high to me, I guess it depends on what part of the country you live in. Either way, if you CHOOSE not to have insurance once Obama passes this legislation, I say penalize or TAX the shit out of them. I am tired of people double dipping on me when they can afford it on their own.

 

[VaYank5150]

I wished someone on one of the five sunday morning shows would of ask him about his involvement with Acorn past and current. Or ask him to release his school records.

Why?

 

[Midnight Marauder]

So, are you saying we should not attempt to get these people off the hook? Continue making people like myself pay for health insurance for not only MY family, but for those who CHOOSE not to buyu health insurance?

You fail to see the bigger picture.

ONLY those above a certain income (Something like 40K) who don't get health insurance will have this tax. The rest? DON'T have to get insurance and WON'T have this tax!

So see? You will STILL have the "burdens on the system" you had before this idiotic tax and they WON'T be paid for by the tax!! Because not enough folks will be paying the "fine!"

Try some honesty: The TAX on cigarettes and tobacco products, and alcohol: They CALL it a TAX because that's exactly what it is. The purpose of the tax is to punish you for doing these mean old, nasty and unhealthy habits. BUT THEY DON'T TRY TO LIE AND SAY IT ISN'T A FUCKING TAX BECAUSE IT IS!

Taxing soda pop. They CALL it a tax. The purpose of the tax is to punish you for feeding your kids this mean old sugar water. BUT THEY DON'T TRY TO LIE AND SAY IT ISN'T A FUCKING TAX BECAUSE IT IS!

This is the same goddamned fucking thing. It is a TAX whose purpose is to PUNISH your ass for not having health insurance! CALL IT A GODDAMNED FUCKING TAX THEN!!!! BECAUSE THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT IT IS!!!

If you don't have auto insurance, is that verified by the IRS? NO.

THIS IS! AND IF YOU DON'T HAVE A APPROVED HEALTH INSURANCE POLICY THEY ARE GONNA TAX YOU!

Have just one tiny amount of honesty about you! Stephanopoulos did! You REALLY think the folks out there are gonna BUY this bullshit of it not being a tax?

C'mon now...

Cigarette taxes have always been called a tax. I am 41, so as long as the tax has been around for me, it has been called a tax.

That's right. BECAUSE IT IS A TAX!!! Just like THIS SHIT IS A TAX!!!

Obama is LYING saying this isn't a tax! And YOU are willfully dishonest, trying to DEFEND his lie!!!

Just CALL IT WHAT IT IS!!! It's a fucking TAX whose purpose is to PUNISH you for not having health insurance! Same as the tax on tobacco and alcohol! Except with those, you actually have a CHOICE whether to PAY it or not! You don't have to BUY something you might not want, to AVOID the punitive tax!

 

[VaYank5150]

Moderators...can you PLEASE medl this thread into one of the MANY others already started about this subject?

 

[Midnight Marauder]

I wished someone on one of the five sunday morning shows would of ask him about his involvement with Acorn past and current. Or ask him to release his school records.

Why?

The standard for Obama is lower than it was for Bush? Why? Bush had to release his transcripts, how come Obama doesn't? Don't you want to read his thesis? Look at his actual grades?

 

[Midnight Marauder]

And let's not forget that the whole purpose of overhauling our healthcare system was to get insurance for those who cannot afford it. While <$40K sounds a little high to me, I guess it depends on what part of the country you live in. Either way, if you CHOOSE not to have insurance once Obama passes this legislation, I say penalize or TAX the shit out of them. I am tired of people double dipping on me when they can afford it on their own.

What you're missing is, there won't BE enough of this tax collected to PAY for indigent care!

 

[keee keee]

Why not!!! He was a corrupt lawyer for this anti American group which is involved in tax fraud, child prostitution, slavery, voter fraud to name just a few things. Waiting for some news stories about this on the state owned media, but doubt I see any, anything anti Obama does not play or get reported!!!!

 

[keee keee]

Was he regestered as a foreign student? Disprove it!!!! Release these records!!! Every president since JFK has released these records, Why is Barry differant, Got something to hide, embarassing. Where is all this transparency we were promised? Another one of the many lies, the American public was told during the election

 

[keee keee]

Don't start calling me a racist because I want to know this!!! Old tactic doesn't work any more.. You cried wolf to many times with that racist thing!!!!

 

[VaYank5150]

You fail to see the bigger picture.

ONLY those above a certain income (Something like 40K) who don't get health insurance will have this tax. The rest? DON'T have to get insurance and WON'T have this tax!

So see? You will STILL have the "burdens on the system" you had before this idiotic tax and they WON'T be paid for by the tax!! Because not enough folks will be paying the "fine!"

Try some honesty: The TAX on cigarettes and tobacco products, and alcohol: They CALL it a TAX because that's exactly what it is. The purpose of the tax is to punish you for doing these mean old, nasty and unhealthy habits. BUT THEY DON'T TRY TO LIE AND SAY IT ISN'T A FUCKING TAX BECAUSE IT IS!

Taxing soda pop. They CALL it a tax. The purpose of the tax is to punish you for feeding your kids this mean old sugar water. BUT THEY DON'T TRY TO LIE AND SAY IT ISN'T A FUCKING TAX BECAUSE IT IS!

This is the same goddamned fucking thing. It is a TAX whose purpose is to PUNISH your ass for not having health insurance! CALL IT A GODDAMNED FUCKING TAX THEN!!!! BECAUSE THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT IT IS!!!

If you don't have auto insurance, is that verified by the IRS? NO.

THIS IS! AND IF YOU DON'T HAVE A APPROVED HEALTH INSURANCE POLICY THEY ARE GONNA TAX YOU!

Have just one tiny amount of honesty about you! Stephanopoulos did! You REALLY think the folks out there are gonna BUY this bullshit of it not being a tax?

C'mon now...

Cigarette taxes have always been called a tax. I am 41, so as long as the tax has been around for me, it has been called a tax.

That's right. BECAUSE IT IS A TAX!!! Just like THIS SHIT IS A TAX!!!

Obama is LYING saying this isn't a tax! And YOU are willfully dishonest, trying to DEFEND his lie!!!

Just CALL IT WHAT IT IS!!! It's a fucking TAX whose purpose is to PUNISH you for not having health insurance! Same as the tax on tobacco and alcohol! Except with those, you actually have a CHOICE whether to PAY it or not! You don't have to BUY something you might not want, to AVOID the punitive tax!

So, based on your words, the government is taxing me to punish me for buying cigarettes and alcohol, but is also a tax to punish me for not having cigarettes and alcohol?

 

[Midnight Marauder]

I completely understand why Obama doesn't want this called what it is. Because he promised NOT to raise taxes, "not a single dime" on the "middle class." Well hell, that promise is BROKEN with cap and trade anyway. It was broken with SCHIP. It will be broken again with the tax on the kid's sodas.

Add that to the more then 50 promises he's already broken and it's no big deal to just call this what the fuck it is, a TAX, instead of insulting the intelligence of the American people.

Does he and his team REALLY think people are going to buy this? Only his most faithful cult followers will.

How long does he think his honeymoon with Big Media is going to last, straining it like he is? Stephanopoulos is anything BUT a right-wing partisan, and he wasn't going to stand idly at the insult. Why the fuck should anyone else?

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Cigarette taxes have always been called a tax. I am 41, so as long as the tax has been around for me, it has been called a tax.

That's right. BECAUSE IT IS A TAX!!! Just like THIS SHIT IS A TAX!!!

Obama is LYING saying this isn't a tax! And YOU are willfully dishonest, trying to DEFEND his lie!!!

Just CALL IT WHAT IT IS!!! It's a fucking TAX whose purpose is to PUNISH you for not having health insurance! Same as the tax on tobacco and alcohol! Except with those, you actually have a CHOICE whether to PAY it or not! You don't have to BUY something you might not want, to AVOID the punitive tax!

So, based on your words, the government is taxing me to punish me for buying cigarettes and alcohol, but is also a tax to punish me for not having cigarettes and alcohol?

If they were taxing you for NOT buying something? Doesn't matter what it is, it is STILL a tax!

CALL it one and be done with it.

 

[VaYank5150]

That's right. BECAUSE IT IS A TAX!!! Just like THIS SHIT IS A TAX!!!

Obama is LYING saying this isn't a tax! And YOU are willfully dishonest, trying to DEFEND his lie!!!

Just CALL IT WHAT IT IS!!! It's a fucking TAX whose purpose is to PUNISH you for not having health insurance! Same as the tax on tobacco and alcohol! Except with those, you actually have a CHOICE whether to PAY it or not! You don't have to BUY something you might not want, to AVOID the punitive tax!

So, based on your words, the government is taxing me to punish me for buying cigarettes and alcohol, but is also a tax to punish me for not having cigarettes and alcohol?

If they were taxing you for NOT buying something? Doesn't matter what it is, it is STILL a tax!

CALL it one and be done with it.

Nope. It is a penalty.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

So, based on your words, the government is taxing me to punish me for buying cigarettes and alcohol, but is also a tax to punish me for not having cigarettes and alcohol?

If they were taxing you for NOT buying something? Doesn't matter what it is, it is STILL a tax!

CALL it one and be done with it.

Nope. It is a penalty.

You really think all but Obamaphile sycophants are gonna believe that? Stephanopoulos doesn't.

 

[keee keee]

wish the kool-aid drinkers would take a smart pill, or go see the wizard and get a brain!!!