Zone1 Pray for me please.

[frigidweirdo]

It is not at all like that. Sometimes it feels like I'm talking to myself. Then it turns out I wasn't.

And how do you know you weren't? How does a kid with an imaginary friend know they weren't?

 

[Meriweather]

And how do you know you weren't? How does a kid with an imaginary friend know they weren't?

It's a matter of coming to know reality. Think about how you come to know what is real.

 

[frigidweirdo]

It's a matter of coming to know reality. Think about how you come to know what is real.

So, the answer is, you don't.

Like a schizophrenic knows what they're seeing is real, you know God is real.

The human brain makes a lot of stuff up, we know this is true, we've got the experiments to prove it.

 

[BreezeWood]

It's a matter of coming to know reality. Think about how you come to know what is real.

your issue would be resolved if anyone were ever to speak to someone deceased they had great affection with - for whatever reason their is no communication w/ the heavens which if really thought out makes the most sense of all.

death is an unassailable barrier.

 

[Meriweather]

So, the answer is, you don't.

No, that wasn't my answer. It's your own conclusion.

 

[frigidweirdo]

No, that wasn't my answer. It's your own conclusion.

Well, what other conclusion is there?

Your answer is basically "well, I just know". There's no proof, no logic, no facts, nothing. Just "I talk to some imaginary friend and I'm not alone".

Maybe it's good for you, just like imaginary friends can be good for people too. Doesn't make it real.

 

[Meriweather]

Well, what other conclusion is there?

Your answer is basically "well, I just know". There's no proof, no logic, no facts, nothing. Just "I talk to some imaginary friend and I'm not alone".

Maybe it's good for you, just like imaginary friends can be good for people too. Doesn't make it real.

Did you ever play with dolls, puppets, stuffed animals when you were little? Did you pretend they talked, ran away, drank tea, ate cookies? Did you ever get astride a stick horse and ride to the rescue? Climb a tree and take-off into outer space? I know imagination. I know pretense, and I know reality.

You mention conclusions, so perhaps you relate better to that. How do you know you have arrived at the right conclusion, made the right decision? Or, we can approach it this way: Have you ever prayed? What did you expect from prayer? Do you recall the song, When You Say Nothing At All? Notting Hill. You can probably find in on Youtube. People close to each other can know what the other is saying when they say nothing at all. If you have ever experienced that, then that should give you an inkling about prayer.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Did you ever play with dolls, puppets, stuffed animals when you were little? Did you pretend they talked, ran away, drank tea, ate cookies? Did you ever get astride a stick horse and ride to the rescue? Climb a tree and take-off into outer space? I know imagination. I know pretense, and I know reality.

You mention conclusions, so perhaps you relate better to that. How do you know you have arrived at the right conclusion, made the right decision? Or, we can approach it this way: Have you ever prayed? What did you expect from prayer? Do you recall the song, When You Say Nothing At All? Notting Hill. You can probably find in on Youtube. People close to each other can know what the other is saying when they say nothing at all. If you have ever experienced that, then that should give you an inkling about prayer.

Problem is, around the world, different people "know" different things.

This is a map of religion. In the red parts, people speak with the Christian God, in the green parts with the Muslim God, in the blue part, with the Jewish God, in Hinduism, Buddhism etc they also have their own Gods.

Surely if people were able to talk to God, and God was there with them, everyone would believe the same thing. But they don't. Then you have whole swathes of people who just don't believe at all, why doesn't God talk to them?

Again, I've seen people who have prayed, and their lives sucked. You say it's because without prayer their lives would have sucked even more, I don't necessarily believe that's the case and if it is, it's like someone taking a placebo and their life getting better simply because it changes how they see things.

What I see, is religion being convenient for humans. Not all humans. Religion has its political side, but it also has its "imaginary friend" side, which helps people. It helps kids. You say you know the difference, but I also know the picture I posted DOES NOT have straight lines when I look at it, but DOES have straight lines when I use a ruler.

What conclusion can I come to from that picture? That the human brain is not always logical. That it makes things up. We know schizophrenics exist. Why? Because things don't always work properly. We know people pray to gods and get answers, why? Because we know people will things into being, like imaginary friends. We understand the brain, to a certain extent.

Also if we go look at M-theory, string theory, what atoms are. All we are are bits of energy that follows certain rules. Do we even think? Why do you do what you do? When did you become conscious? When did you start to have free will? Why do kids have traits from their parents? Because they have free will or because they don't?

Lots of things we KNOW and choose to ignore when it doesn't fit with out limited views of the world.

 

[Meriweather]

Problem is, around the world, different people "know" different things.

View attachment 1071162
This is a map of religion. In the red parts, people speak with the Christian God, in the green parts with the Muslim God, in the blue part, with the Jewish God, in Hinduism, Buddhism etc they also have their own Gods.

Surely if people were able to talk to God, and God was there with them, everyone would believe the same thing. But they don't. Then you have whole swathes of people who just don't believe at all, why doesn't God talk to them?

Again, I've seen people who have prayed, and their lives sucked. You say it's because without prayer their lives would have sucked even more, I don't necessarily believe that's the case and if it is, it's like someone taking a placebo and their life getting better simply because it changes how they see things.

What I see, is religion being convenient for humans. Not all humans. Religion has its political side, but it also has its "imaginary friend" side, which helps people. It helps kids. You say you know the difference, but I also know the picture I posted DOES NOT have straight lines when I look at it, but DOES have straight lines when I use a ruler.

What conclusion can I come to from that picture? That the human brain is not always logical. That it makes things up. We know schizophrenics exist. Why? Because things don't always work properly. We know people pray to gods and get answers, why? Because we know people will things into being, like imaginary friends. We understand the brain, to a certain extent.

Also if we go look at M-theory, string theory, what atoms are. All we are are bits of energy that follows certain rules. Do we even think? Why do you do what you do? When did you become conscious? When did you start to have free will? Why do kids have traits from their parents? Because they have free will or because they don't?

Lots of things we KNOW and choose to ignore when it doesn't fit with out limited views of the world.

Why the great lengths to justify non-belief? I began seeking God as a child. I have had experiences of God, a glimpse of the afterlife. "Blessed are those who have not seen yet believe" does not apply to me. I do not have to rely on faith alone. You asked me about prayer. I explained to the best of my ability. Seeking God, persevering in prayer has been well worthwhile. Some people don't want God in their life, and you seem to be one of them. Be happy with your choice. All I can do is testify that God Is. It's not a placebo, and I am not schizophrenic, but guess what. You find that easier to believe than God. I say, reach higher, but if the greatest height you can reach is that I'm a schizophrenic on placebos, that's your limitation when it comes to God.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Why the great lengths to justify non-belief? I began seeking God as a child. I have had experiences of God, a glimpse of the afterlife. "Blessed are those who have not seen yet believe" does not apply to me. I do not have to rely on faith alone. You asked me about prayer. I explained to the best of my ability. Seeking God, persevering in prayer has been well worthwhile. Some people don't want God in their life, and you seem to be one of them. Be happy with your choice. All I can do is testify that God Is. It's not a placebo, and I am not schizophrenic, but guess what. You find that easier to believe than God. I say, reach higher, but if the greatest height you can reach is that I'm a schizophrenic on placebos, that's your limitation when it comes to God.

Why the great lengths to justify it?

You have experiences. But like I've said, what people experience isn't necessarily what is happening.

If you want to be religious, want to follow some made up thing and it makes you happy, then do so.

If you want to engage me in conversation about religion, then do so. But I'm going to say it how I see it, as you do too.

I didn't say you're a schizophrenic, I'm using that as an example of certain people who quite clearly have a brain that sees differently to others. (Starting from an assumption that we see "reality"). If their brains can create things that aren't there, then perhaps our brains do too.

Also we could talk about how emotional humans are.

We are, essentially, sexual creatures. In order to get us to reproduce, things in our brains are designed in certain ways. We need to be pleasured by it, so we have drugs that give us pleasure when he have sex, which also spills over into other areas of our lives. We don't need the rational, our species has survived with the emotional aspect for a long time.

So, we see things from those perspectives.

As to why I go to great efforts to explain this, same as why I look at string theory and try and understand how we function from the smallest levels and why I look at space and the universe. It interests me.

 

[Meriweather]

If you want to be religious, want to follow some made up thing and it makes you happy, then do so.

I'll bet if it makes me happy to have fruit for breakfast, you will graciously grant me permission to do that as well. Neither religion or fruit have much to do with happiness.

We are, essentially, sexual creatures.

Except...that is not all we are. Mankind seems to have begun religious practices early on. Not a lot can be determined why, and these practices seem to center around the belief of both physical and spirit existence.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I'll bet if it makes me happy to have fruit for breakfast, you will graciously grant me permission to do that as well. Neither religion or fruit have much to do with happiness.

Except...that is not all we are. Mankind seems to have begun religious practices early on. Not a lot can be determined why, and these practices seem to center around the belief of both physical and spirit existence.

Religion has loads to do with happiness.

Christianity has a God who loves without question. For a lot of people that's something they need. Then you have the things you do automatically, gives people comfort.

Religion existed early on, because A) it gave a sense of control over the world (I execute this person and God will like me) and B) Because then individuals who craved power within the tribe would claim to talk to God in order to gain that power.

I don't know what floats your boat in terms of religion, but for a lot of people it gives happiness.

 

[Meriweather]

Religion has loads to do with happiness.

How are you defining happiness? In what way(s) do you see religion as providing 'happiness'?