Prediction: GOP will Vote to Pay Bond Holders while holding up SS Checks

[Rshermr]

What part of "there is NOTHING of value in the SS Trust Fund don'tcha now understand?
You're stupid assertion that this is DEBT NEUTRAL is truely just zealot denial..
It's about the same as blowing the rent money on losing lottery tickets, putting the rent on your credit card and CLAIMING that was "debt neutral" and didn't cost you a penny because you were EXPECTING the debt to occur.. You just ignored it and acted irresponsibly.

There is nothing of value in the Trust Fund.. NOT EVEN REAL DEBT INSTRUMENTS.. Just an accounting entry and a promise.. And it has been ADDING TO OUR National Debt for years before YOU even realized it was happening..

Spare me the snooty lectures..

And I'll address this as well. Fuck you and the horse you rode in on first.

I've been posting all over these threads that the Gov't has Raped the Funds. Hell they've been doing so since the 60's. Which is why we have Intragovernmental debt. They spent it and put a stack of IOU's into this catagory.

My point is on the Debt Ceiling and how they are Fear Mongering that it will not get paid if we don't open Gov't. I say that's BS, because of how the DEBT IS FUCKING ACCOUNTED FOR.

And my point there is SPOT ON. Not that they haven't spent the damn funds already.

Perhaps, me boy, a simple link to a source that suggests you are correct that "they" have been raping ss since the 60's. Dipshit. You post information that says no such thing. and then say it says something that it does not You look delusional to anyone reading your drivel.

You really can not be so stupid as to not understand intergovernmental debt, can you. Certainly looks like it is beyond you. It is a simple thing. It is treasury securities that are purchased by various government agencies. Including the social security administration. So, the trust funds set up to hold ss surplus revenues hold special treasury securities. Now, me boy, that would be because it is much safer to hold federal securities than cash. Putting the cash under the ss mattress would be a bad thing.

So, those ss trusts hold federal securities. Which you claim are worthless. But, me boy, each and every time they sell those securities they get the value they paid for those securiities back again. Plus some amount of interest. Every single time they want to do so, they do so. And they never, ever are told that the funds are empty and they can not get their value back.

Sorry you find this so difficult to understand. People in the rational world have no problem with it. It is simply a standard securities transaction. Maybe you should take up something simpler.

Relative to shutting down the gov, or part of it, you are again unable to understand something so simple. Please, me boy. Enlighten me. Find a source that supports your hypotheses. Because only you know what you are talking about.

 

[flacaltenn]

YAWN............

First off. Social Security payments are funded each month by taxation. There is actually a surplus of funds each month and this will continue until it peaks in 2021 or so at 3 TRILLION DOLLARS. We currently have INTERGOVERNMENTAL BORROWING FROM THIS TRUST of 2.7 TRILLION DOLLARS.

I can't believe anyone this ill-informed can vote.. Did ya miss the SS balance during the time that the DaliBama was playing Robin Hood and robbing the payroll taxes for SS premiums?? Ran a deficit for 2 years at least.. A HUGE deficit.. And it continues.. IN FACT --



IT'S ALREADY BROKE.. As far as income from taxation.. No "surplus of funds" as you asserted.. Guess you missed that part.. And as usual it went BROKE about 6 years before the PROJECTED date that the Govt was asserting..



I assume you meant "fear mongering by the RIGHT" which would be justified since EVEN THE SSAdmin is "fear-mongering"...

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/history/pdf/tr09summary.pdf

Neither the redemption of trust fund bonds, nor
interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury,
which must finance redemptions and interest payments through
some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government
spending, or additional borrowing from the public.

What part of "there is NOTHING of value in the SS Trust Fund don'tcha now understand?
You're stupid assertion that this is DEBT NEUTRAL is truely just zealot denial..
It's about the same as blowing the rent money on losing lottery tickets, putting the rent on your credit card and CLAIMING that was "debt neutral" and didn't cost you a penny because you were EXPECTING the debt to occur.. You just ignored it and acted irresponsibly.

There is nothing of value in the Trust Fund.. NOT EVEN REAL DEBT INSTRUMENTS.. Just an accounting entry and a promise.. And it has been ADDING TO OUR National Debt for years before YOU even realized it was happening..

Spare me the snooty lectures..

STFU

I stated correctly that if you borrow from the Fed it would add debt to the Interest Bearing side.

I stated that the Gov't owes money to SS trust which is included in Intergovernmental Debt.

In that way you pay off the debt of one and add it to the other. aka The Debt Ceiling stays THE FUCKING SAME..................

Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application)

You will notice DEBT TO THE PUBLIC AND INTRAGOVERNMENTAL DEBT.

One goes up, the other goes down the same because it is DEBT OWED TO OURSELVES THAT IS NOT INTEREST BEARING. The DEBT CEILING DOESN'T CHANGE A FUCKING CENT.

Which is what I was saying..........Has our Gov't RAPED THESE FUNDS..............

Your damn skippy. 4.8 TRILLION between SS, Medcare and Pensions.

Out of luck today Skippy in the STFU department. You rode in here stating that ----

First off. Social Security payments are funded each month by taxation. There is actually a surplus of funds each month and this will continue until it peaks in 2021 or so at 3 TRILLION DOLLARS.

---- with no apparent knowledge of the fact that the days of the SS SURPLUS had already ended. THAT immediately reduces your cred.

And you PRETENDED that those IOUs sitting in a ledger at SSA actually represent DEBT.. In fact --- you still do.. Except that the theft OCCURED --- and the DEBT has yet to be ISSUED.. NOTHING of that debt ever got funded by the folks who stole the money. When the DEBT IS TRUELY issued --- it will be against CURRENT taxpayers as the Treasury actually goes to fund that debt by soliciting money for REAL BONDS. The OFF BOOK debt is just a PROMISE to issue debt --- not real debt requiring REAL interest payments and NEGOTIABLE instruments.

And NOW you contend that the debt CEILING (something that wasn't discussed) won't change. You are wrong.. THe OFF-BOOK SS "promises" are in addition to the actual spending ceiling that is called the debt ceiling. The ceiling represents CURRENT COMMITMENTS to stakeholders and outlays of ACTUAL ISSUED debt.. As the INTRADEPARTMENTAL PROMISES get paid out --- this WILL affect the debt ceiling. Despite all the bleating and lying of your sources to the contrary. The country is almost 17T in ACTUAL DEBT COMMITMENTS.. SS "promises" and other non-funded entitlements are in addition to that.

 

[flacaltenn]

What part of "there is NOTHING of value in the SS Trust Fund don'tcha now understand?
You're stupid assertion that this is DEBT NEUTRAL is truely just zealot denial..
It's about the same as blowing the rent money on losing lottery tickets, putting the rent on your credit card and CLAIMING that was "debt neutral" and didn't cost you a penny because you were EXPECTING the debt to occur.. You just ignored it and acted irresponsibly.

There is nothing of value in the Trust Fund.. NOT EVEN REAL DEBT INSTRUMENTS.. Just an accounting entry and a promise.. And it has been ADDING TO OUR National Debt for years before YOU even realized it was happening..

Spare me the snooty lectures..

And I'll address this as well. Fuck you and the horse you rode in on first.

I've been posting all over these threads that the Gov't has Raped the Funds. Hell they've been doing so since the 60's. Which is why we have Intragovernmental debt. They spent it and put a stack of IOU's into this catagory.

My point is on the Debt Ceiling and how they are Fear Mongering that it will not get paid if we don't open Gov't. I say that's BS, because of how the DEBT IS FUCKING ACCOUNTED FOR.

And my point there is SPOT ON. Not that they haven't spent the damn funds already.

Perhaps, me boy, a simple link to a source that suggests you are correct that "they" have been raping ss since the 60's. Dipshit. You post information that says no such thing. and then say it says something that it does not You look delusional to anyone reading your drivel.

You really can not be so stupid as to not understand intergovernmental debt, can you. Certainly looks like it is beyond you. It is a simple thing. It is treasury securities that are purchased by various government agencies. Including the social security administration. So, the trust funds set up to hold ss surplus revenues hold special treasury securities. Now, me boy, that would be because it is much safer to hold federal securities than cash. Putting the cash under the ss mattress would be a bad thing.

So, those ss trusts hold federal securities. Which you claim are worthless. But, me boy, each and every time they sell those securities they get the value they paid for those securiities back again. Plus some amount of interest. Every single time they want to do so, they do so. And they never, ever are told that the funds are empty and they can not get their value back.

Sorry you find this so difficult to understand. People in the rational world have no problem with it. It is simply a standard securities transaction. Maybe you should take up something simpler.

Relative to shutting down the gov, or part of it, you are again unable to understand something so simple. Please, me boy. Enlighten me. Find a source that supports your hypotheses. Because only you know what you are talking about.

The trust fund holds no market issued securities or bonds that are transferable, saleable or have any intrinsic value.. They are only PROMISES to issue debt when hard cash is required to supplement payments to reciepients. THUS the treasury has NOTHING to account for with the SS DEBT UNTIL it's "redeemed".. That is done by issuing ACTUAL DEBT INSTRUMENTS that go onto the general deficit books and fall under the debt ceiling.

I posted a quote from the SSA saying EXACTLY THAT.. NOTHING OF VALUE comes out of the Trust Fund except a promise to issue new debt.


So --- taxpayers in the 70s 80s 90s and 00s were stolen from.. NOTHING of value was added to the fund except a promise to issue debt when required under the general Treasury ledger. So when this finally happens (NOW for instance) $50B or more of REAL NEW BONDS cover it each year.. AND THOSE get counted under the operating budget and the debt ceiling..

That means that a worker who had a dollar stolen from their payroll tax in those past years COULD NOW be responsible for another dollar of newly issued bond plus interest on BOTH OF THOSE dollars in order to pay an SS recipient $1..

Wake the fuck up folks.. THat's a raw deal WITHOUT all the lying and larceny..

 

[flacaltenn]

Why do you think that the Repubs are screaming for conversations to start on the ENTITLEMENT side of this debt ceiling deal? Because the SS crisis we KNEW was coming is HERE NOW EARLY..

And all that OFF-BOOK debt that ISN'T NOW under the debt ceiling that's under debate is MOVING THAT WAY.. The ficticious trust fund hasn't cost the govt a dime because it doesn't affect the Treasury budget. But NOW --- it's a snowballing to the size of a mountain.. And just INCREASING the debt ceiling because of this "redemption" should be accompanied by SOME FREAKING attempt at MANAGING those expenditures. Silly little shit like offering Warren Buffet 10 cents on the dollar for HIS SS check. OR raising the FICA tax or changing eligibility..

We were told this was coming.. The CongressCritters appointed useless commisions who were ignored. Nothing got fixed. They got away with the theft scott-free..

 

[Vandalshandle]

If the republicans were to vote to suspend SS payments, while paying bondholders interest, then they might as well put their headquarters up for sale. They would be finished. The only voting block that is as solid as the NRA is SS recipiants.

 

[flacaltenn]

If the republicans were to vote to suspend SS payments, while paying bondholders interest, then they might as well put their headquarters up for sale. They would be finished. The only voting block that is as solid as the NRA is SS recipiants.

Who has consistently been the ones trying to AVERT the disaster we knew was coming and is now here??? The opportunity to fix this was when SS was truly running surpluses.. And when the Reps (and my Libertarian buds) suggested that we stop the theft of the surpluses and use them to DEFER FUTURE costs --- the Dems demagogued and screamed bloody murder and tossed baseless accusations about "killing SS". Every dollar of that surplus used to allow individuals to voluntarily DECREASE their future SS payments would have lowered our current rate of debt spending for SS.

All we ever got from the Dems was nonsense about an unworkable ficticious "lock box" and demands to raise the retirement age and boost the caps for the rich..

NOW --- there are no good choices. And all the promises OUGHT TO BE HONORED. So on that we agree.. But how the American public (and Dems in particular) can be so stupid as to ignore this massive theft and cover-up and STILL trust these felons to manage MORE of their lives (like insurance or "universal anything") really strains logic and reason..

 

[flacaltenn]

Note for all you Dem zealot buds of mine..

You need to get the word out that OBAMA is not responsible for all the mounting debt.. For some dam reason -- they will not acknowledge the impact of $50B or $75B SS deficits every year. The prez that inherited the SS crisis was NOT SUPPOSED to be THIS GUY. But the one AFTER him..

Why you guys are pointing out that a lot of the mounting debt is NOT current admin spending, but SS transfer payments is puzzling. It's probably because NO POLITICIAN wants the general public to wake up to the theft and the fact that the "crisis is happening now".

BECAUSE ACKNOWLEDGING the effect of the mounting SS liability on the budget and CURRENT TAXPAYERS would be the same as admitting that a crime was committed and the Trust Fund was an accounting fiction.

If I was you ---- I'd point it out anyway so that YOUR guys don't take the fall for spending alone..

 

[Rshermr]

And I'll address this as well. Fuck you and the horse you rode in on first.

I've been posting all over these threads that the Gov't has Raped the Funds. Hell they've been doing so since the 60's. Which is why we have Intragovernmental debt. They spent it and put a stack of IOU's into this catagory.

My point is on the Debt Ceiling and how they are Fear Mongering that it will not get paid if we don't open Gov't. I say that's BS, because of how the DEBT IS FUCKING ACCOUNTED FOR.

And my point there is SPOT ON. Not that they haven't spent the damn funds already.

Perhaps, me boy, a simple link to a source that suggests you are correct that "they" have been raping ss since the 60's. Dipshit. You post information that says no such thing. and then say it says something that it does not You look delusional to anyone reading your drivel.

You really can not be so stupid as to not understand intergovernmental debt, can you. Certainly looks like it is beyond you. It is a simple thing. It is treasury securities that are purchased by various government agencies. Including the social security administration. So, the trust funds set up to hold ss surplus revenues hold special treasury securities. Now, me boy, that would be because it is much safer to hold federal securities than cash. Putting the cash under the ss mattress would be a bad thing.

So, those ss trusts hold federal securities. Which you claim are worthless. But, me boy, each and every time they sell those securities they get the value they paid for those securiities back again. Plus some amount of interest. Every single time they want to do so, they do so. And they never, ever are told that the funds are empty and they can not get their value back.

Sorry you find this so difficult to understand. People in the rational world have no problem with it. It is simply a standard securities transaction. Maybe you should take up something simpler.

Relative to shutting down the gov, or part of it, you are again unable to understand something so simple. Please, me boy. Enlighten me. Find a source that supports your hypotheses. Because only you know what you are talking about.

The trust fund holds no market issued securities or bonds that are transferable, saleable or have any intrinsic value.. They are only PROMISES to issue debt when hard cash is required to supplement payments to reciepients. THUS the treasury has NOTHING to account for with the SS DEBT UNTIL it's "redeemed".. That is done by issuing ACTUAL DEBT INSTRUMENTS that go onto the general deficit books and fall under the debt ceiling.

I posted a quote from the SSA saying EXACTLY THAT.. NOTHING OF VALUE comes out of the Trust Fund except a promise to issue new debt.


So --- taxpayers in the 70s 80s 90s and 00s were stolen from.. NOTHING of value was added to the fund except a promise to issue debt when required under the general Treasury ledger. So when this finally happens (NOW for instance) $50B or more of REAL NEW BONDS cover it each year.. AND THOSE get counted under the operating budget and the debt ceiling..

That means that a worker who had a dollar stolen from their payroll tax in those past years COULD NOW be responsible for another dollar of newly issued bond plus interest on BOTH OF THOSE dollars in order to pay an SS recipient $1..

Wake the fuck up folks.. THat's a raw deal WITHOUT all the lying and larceny..

What the ss program did, me poor ignorant con tool, was to provide value to the treasury by purchasing special treasury securities. Got that yet??? And investment. Simple for most to understand.

What they received was ALSO simple to understand. They received an increase in their holdings of special treasury securities. Which are what the federal government has required the ss funds be invested in. So, they exchanged one asset (funds) for another (treasury securities).

So, it boils down to you (an obvious congenital idiot) screaming that those treasury securities now sitting in the ss trusts have no value. Your problem is, me poor ignorant tool, that those treasury securities do indeed have value, proven by the simple fact that they have been redeemed time after time after time. And have never been found to have less than their face value plus interest.
Exactly the same, me poor ignorant con, as if you had purchased tbills. Exactly the same process.


Again, I challenge you to show a single case where ss has been raided, dipshit. You can not because they have not. You are simply a screaming tool without a rational case to shout about, so you make it up. Dipshit.

 

[Rshermr]

Why do you think that the Repubs are screaming for conversations to start on the ENTITLEMENT side of this debt ceiling deal? Because the SS crisis we KNEW was coming is HERE NOW EARLY..

And all that OFF-BOOK debt that ISN'T NOW under the debt ceiling that's under debate is MOVING THAT WAY.. The ficticious trust fund hasn't cost the govt a dime because it doesn't affect the Treasury budget. But NOW --- it's a snowballing to the size of a mountain.. And just INCREASING the debt ceiling because of this "redemption" should be accompanied by SOME FREAKING attempt at MANAGING those expenditures. Silly little shit like offering Warren Buffet 10 cents on the dollar for HIS SS check. OR raising the FICA tax or changing eligibility..

We were told this was coming.. The CongressCritters appointed useless commisions who were ignored. Nothing got fixed. They got away with the theft scott-free..

What we have, of course, is the same ignorant bs being sold to the american public as always. By con tools like you, who are either to stupid (maybe) or simply too agenda driven(probably) to be willing to state the truth. SS is in no trouble today. It is able to make payments in full for at least another 20 years. We have NO problem, just the normal lying cons trying to privatize ss. Nothing new. Just irrelevant tools like yourself.

Anyone who wants to know the truth can spend an hour or so reading the information available on the net, from impartial sources, and see that{
1. We need to change the tax program for ss now. Change the fica tax to account for increasing costs due primarily to increasing numbers of retirees and increasing costs faced by those retirees.
2. Account in some way for the increasing life expectancy of ss recipients.

Simple. Been done many times before. And will be done again.

Why do repubs scream we need to restructure entitlements?? Simple enough, if you take the time to look at who paid the politicians, mostly repubs but also some dems. Because they actually ALWAYS align themselves with the moneyed interests who pay them. And those that payed them, me lying con, are the very investment firms who would win BIG if the ss program was privatized and they could take it over as an investment program.
Simple, me screaming lying con tool. You do not deal in truth. You lie like a rug, and distort the truth. You may want to look at what just happened with the debt ceiling fight. YOU LOST. And you and your stripe WILL LOOSE AGAIN IN PRIVATIZING THE SS PROGRAM. BECAUSE, ME POOR IGNORANT CON TOOL, IT WILL SIMPLY BE FIXED. BECAUSE, YOU SEE, THE POPULATION OF THIS COUNTRY LIKES SS AS IT IS NOW STRUCTURED.

 

[Rshermr]

If the republicans were to vote to suspend SS payments, while paying bondholders interest, then they might as well put their headquarters up for sale. They would be finished. The only voting block that is as solid as the NRA is SS recipiants.

Who has consistently been the ones trying to AVERT the disaster we knew was coming and is now here??? The opportunity to fix this was when SS was truly running surpluses.. And when the Reps (and my Libertarian buds) suggested that we stop the theft of the surpluses and use them to DEFER FUTURE costs --- the Dems demagogued and screamed bloody murder and tossed baseless accusations about "killing SS". Every dollar of that surplus used to allow individuals to voluntarily DECREASE their future SS payments would have lowered our current rate of debt spending for SS.

All we ever got from the Dems was nonsense about an unworkable ficticious "lock box" and demands to raise the retirement age and boost the caps for the rich..

NOW --- there are no good choices. And all the promises OUGHT TO BE HONORED. So on that we agree.. But how the American public (and Dems in particular) can be so stupid as to ignore this massive theft and cover-up and STILL trust these felons to manage MORE of their lives (like insurance or "universal anything") really strains logic and reason..

My poor lying con tool:
1. SS is not broke. There are currently over $2.7 TRILLION in the funds now.
2. Those funds hold securities that will be honored, as they ALWAYS HAVE, as payments are required.
3. The funds will run out, and SS payments will decrease in around 1933.
4. As usual, the program will be modified when it is necessary to keep those payments fully funded.
5. And, as usual, the repubs with the agenda to destroy ss will keep on lying like rugs, as you prove.

 

[editec]

Prediction: GOP will Vote to Pay Bond Holders while holding up SS Checks

I doubt they have the balls to do it, but one never knows.

They have told us time after time that they hate social security and think anybody on it is on welfare.

And lord knows they love the moneybaggers who own US Tbills, so while I doubt the GOP would openly do this?

I believe they would dearly love to screw SS recipients.

 

[Rshermr]

So, flacaltenn, just to vet you again, lets look at your lock box statement:

All we ever got from the Dems was nonsense about an unworkable ficticious "lock box" and demands to raise the retirement age and boost the caps for the rich..

Actually, you are lying again (what a surprise):

The term lockbox actually invented by Republicans
Keys to the Social Security Lockbox | PBS NewsHour | Aug. 22, 2001 | PBS

In 1999, Republican Congressman Wally Herger sponsored a "lockbox" bill in the House of Representatives.
Social Security - Just Facts

Not that it matters. Simply proving that you can not tell the truth.

 

[flacaltenn]

Perhaps, me boy, a simple link to a source that suggests you are correct that "they" have been raping ss since the 60's. Dipshit. You post information that says no such thing. and then say it says something that it does not You look delusional to anyone reading your drivel.

You really can not be so stupid as to not understand intergovernmental debt, can you. Certainly looks like it is beyond you. It is a simple thing. It is treasury securities that are purchased by various government agencies. Including the social security administration. So, the trust funds set up to hold ss surplus revenues hold special treasury securities. Now, me boy, that would be because it is much safer to hold federal securities than cash. Putting the cash under the ss mattress would be a bad thing.

So, those ss trusts hold federal securities. Which you claim are worthless. But, me boy, each and every time they sell those securities they get the value they paid for those securiities back again. Plus some amount of interest. Every single time they want to do so, they do so. And they never, ever are told that the funds are empty and they can not get their value back.

Sorry you find this so difficult to understand. People in the rational world have no problem with it. It is simply a standard securities transaction. Maybe you should take up something simpler.

Relative to shutting down the gov, or part of it, you are again unable to understand something so simple. Please, me boy. Enlighten me. Find a source that supports your hypotheses. Because only you know what you are talking about.

The trust fund holds no market issued securities or bonds that are transferable, saleable or have any intrinsic value.. They are only PROMISES to issue debt when hard cash is required to supplement payments to reciepients. THUS the treasury has NOTHING to account for with the SS DEBT UNTIL it's "redeemed".. That is done by issuing ACTUAL DEBT INSTRUMENTS that go onto the general deficit books and fall under the debt ceiling.

I posted a quote from the SSA saying EXACTLY THAT.. NOTHING OF VALUE comes out of the Trust Fund except a promise to issue new debt.


So --- taxpayers in the 70s 80s 90s and 00s were stolen from.. NOTHING of value was added to the fund except a promise to issue debt when required under the general Treasury ledger. So when this finally happens (NOW for instance) $50B or more of REAL NEW BONDS cover it each year.. AND THOSE get counted under the operating budget and the debt ceiling..

That means that a worker who had a dollar stolen from their payroll tax in those past years COULD NOW be responsible for another dollar of newly issued bond plus interest on BOTH OF THOSE dollars in order to pay an SS recipient $1..

Wake the fuck up folks.. THat's a raw deal WITHOUT all the lying and larceny..

What the ss program did, me poor ignorant con tool, was to provide value to the treasury by purchasing special treasury securities. Got that yet??? And investment. Simple for most to understand.

What they received was ALSO simple to understand. They received an increase in their holdings of special treasury securities. Which are what the federal government has required the ss funds be invested in. So, they exchanged one asset (funds) for another (treasury securities).

So, it boils down to you (an obvious congenital idiot) screaming that those treasury securities now sitting in the ss trusts have no value. Your problem is, me poor ignorant tool, that those treasury securities do indeed have value, proven by the simple fact that they have been redeemed time after time after time. And have never been found to have less than their face value plus interest.
Exactly the same, me poor ignorant con, as if you had purchased tbills. Exactly the same process.


Again, I challenge you to show a single case where ss has been raided, dipshit. You can not because they have not. You are simply a screaming tool without a rational case to shout about, so you make it up. Dipshit.

Cut the crap.. I'm gonna explained to you how you've been raped and robbed without apparently knowing a crime has occurred.. But since this news is gonna devastate you and be a whopping big revelation --- I suggest you do the following..

1) Take the day off.
2) Remove all sharp objects and weapons from the room and close the door.
3) Have the number of the local suicide hotline handy.
4) Postpone that big donation that you were writing to your favorite politician.
5) Listen very very carefully..

First off... The Trust Fund hold no "bonds".. It holds interdepartmental MEMOs that serve as IOUs. They CANNOT BE SOLD. They are non-transferable. It is merely a promise to issue debt when the "redemption" is required..

Special-issue securities, Social Security trust funds

The Old-Age and Survivors Insurance Trust Fund and the Disability Insurance Trust Fund comprise the Social Security trust funds. Both funds are managed by the Department of the Treasury through their Bureau of Public Debt. Since the beginning of the Social Security program, all securities held by the trust funds have been issued by the Federal Government. There are two general types of such securities:

•Special issues—available only to the trust funds
•Public issues—marketable Treasury bonds available to the public.
The trust funds now hold only special issues, but they have held public issues in the past.

Here's how you were robbed..

A) For all of Rshermr's working life (assuming) every day a dollar of SS surplus was stolen from your pay.. It was taken and spent on OTHER THINGS than SS payments. The Treasury stupidly ACKNOWLEDGED this theft by making a ledger entry in the OFF-BOOK SS account stating that the money was stolen and promised to (in the future) issue REAL DEBT if required to repay the amount WITH interest..

B) The Treasury THEN went about the biz of wasting the taxpayers money and put this COMPLETELY out of it's mind. The memo debt amount NEVER AFFECTED the operating budget of the USA and NEVER COUNTED towards what we now know as the "debt ceiling".. For all practical purposes, the "debt" didn't appear on the credit record of the USA.

C) Multiple commissions and politicians WARNED that these MEMOS were gonna be hard to redeem if the USA was still running a deficit at the time of redemption. That there would be a fantastically painful SS crisis coming.. And then they went back to bickering about trivial shit..

D) Day comes when there is no more surplus to steal.. The SS fund goes into NEGATIVE balance (2010) and cant' pay as they go out of payroll reciepts. SS brainiacs call up the Treasury and request a redemption of $50B in PROMISES..

E) Treasury calls China and offers them a deal on a REAL treasury bond. China says sure if ya pay me enough interest and keep buying Happy Meal toys from us. The BONDS ARE ISSUED.. Debt to the US taxpayers is LOGGED under the OFFICIAL BUDGET and Rshermr starts paying interest to China on that bond. Politicos fight because this raises the OFFICIAL DEBT sky-high and threatens to blow the CEILING right off the Debt.

F) China says ---- we want our MONEY on the bond you sold us in 2010 like we promised. Rshermr is asked to pony ANOTHER PILE of dollars to pay China WITH INTEREST.

What has Rshermr paid to pay $1 to a current SS reciepient?

1) The dollar that was stolen from his paycheck Aug 16th 1971..
2) The ficticious SS INTEREST on the debt memo that sat on a ledger at SSA for 20 years. Probably some MORE Rshermr. pocket change goes out..
3) The dollar that REPAYS China in 2018 for the bond they bought in 2010.
4) The INTEREST on that bond that China bought to bail out the SS fund..

Rshermr pays that $1 to the current recipient (or himself) by paying over $2.5 dollars..
AND he doesn't even realize he's been robbed..

True story.. I swear...

There is NOTHING of value in the SS Trust FUnd.. Lemme have THEM tell you that again..

From the Social Security Admin (you can get the same message from CBO or any number of sources.. )))

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/history/pdf/tr09summary.pdf

Social Security’s annual surpluses of tax income over expenditures are expected to fall sharply this year and to stay about constant in 2010 because of the economic recession,
and to rise only briefly before declining and turning to cash flow deficits beginning in 2016 that grow as the baby-boom generation retires.

[[[[Note from FlaCalTenn --- This is from an '09 report. That paragraph DIDN'T HAPPEN. THe idiots blew the prediction. Because it went Negative in 2010 and has ALREADY stayed that way since.. The crisis is NOW]]]]

The combined difference grows each year, so that by 2016, net revenue
flows from the general fund would total $369 billion (1.8 percent of
GDP). The positive amounts that begin in 2016 for OASDI, and started in
2008 for HI, initially represent payments the Treasury must make to the
trust funds when assets are depleted to help pay benefits in years prior to
exhaustion of the funds. Neither the redemption of trust fund bonds, nor
interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury,
which must finance redemptions and interest payments through
some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government
spending, or additional borrowing from the public.

Nothing of value in it. You pay TWICE for the same benefit.. You were robbed...

You OK with that Rshermr?????? Call that suicide number if you can't handle the truth.. I'm truly sorry for your loss and the fact that you've been duped into believing that the govt was "investing" the money they stole..

Why that's the same story that Bernie Madoff told all his clients.. Who votes for a trainload of orange jumpsuits??
Show of hands...

 

[Rshermr]

So, flactation, or whomever, says the following:

Cut the crap..

I provide truth. You are pitching crap.

I'm gonna explained to you how you've been raped and robbed without apparently knowing a crime has occurred..

Good. Is this in the future, or in the past. Maybe a remedial english class..

But since this news is gonna devastate you and be a whopping big revelation --- I suggest you do the following..

1) Take the day off.
2) Remove all sharp objects and weapons from the room and close the door.
3) Have the number of the local suicide hotline handy.
4) Postpone that big donation that you were writing to your favorite politician.
5) Listen very very carefully..

First off... The Trust Fund hold no "bonds".. It holds interdepartmental MEMOs that serve as IOUs. They CANNOT BE SOLD. They are non-transferable. It is merely a promise to issue debt when the "redemption" is required..

Naa. I do not buy your con tool drivel. I simply disprove it.
The funds, over $2.7 Trillion, pay only to the ss admin as required by law. To the ss admin, they are a very safe investment, which has and continues to pay in full when requested. That, me boy, is the fact. To the ss admin, they are liquid assets that they redeem when necessary.

Nothing of value in it.

That is lie number two (of many by you). It has no value to anyone but the ss administration. To them it has total value. That is, dipshit, the value paid in plus interest.

You pay TWICE for the same benefit.. You were robbed...

And another lie. I paid once for the benefits of the people who were before me, me poor con.

You OK with that Rshermr??????
Call that suicide number if you can't handle the truth.. I'm truly sorry for your loss and the fact that you've been duped into believing that the govt was "investing" the money they stole..

Nice. You just proved you are delusional. Is there a number I can call to have you committed???

You are, of course, comparing ss to an investment program. Which it is not. It is an annuity with a end date of DEATH. So, if you die at 65, you are probably going to be found to have gotten much less back than you paid in. But if you live to normal life expectancy age, you will have receive well more than you paid in to SS.
PolitiFact | Medicare and Social Security: What you paid compared with what you get

And under no case has the treasury ever robbed the fund, or refused to pay the funds plus interest as promised. Just more of your lies, me lying con tool.

Here's how you were robbed..

A) For all of Rshermr's working life (assuming) every day a dollar of SS surplus was stolen from your pay.. It was taken and spent on OTHER THINGS than SS payments. The Treasury stupidly ACKNOWLEDGED this theft by making a ledger entry in the OFF-BOOK SS account stating that the money was stolen and promised to (in the future) issue REAL DEBT if required to repay the amount WITH interest..

You are, of course, saying that the us gov and the treasury in particularly took the funds used by the ss admin to buy special treasury instruments, as required by law, and used it to buy whatever they had in mind. Which, of course, is what happens any time you buy bonds, either private or governmental. That, of course, is not theft. If it were, we would have the federal courts filled with cases. Because, that is normal. What matters is if the funds paid in to the ss program are paid back with interest. And they are, always. Simple investment. You need to study a little. And stop the lying.

B) The Treasury THEN went about the biz of wasting the taxpayers money and put this COMPLETELY out of it's mind. The memo debt amount NEVER AFFECTED the operating budget of the USA and NEVER COUNTED towards what we now know as the "debt ceiling".. For all practical purposes, the "debt" didn't appear on the credit record of the USA.

Nope. Of course not. The ss admin invested it's funds, and got back what they paid in in full with interest. It does not effect the national debt because it is fully paid for funds by the ss admin. In other words, me lying tool, it is a transfer of assets. Standard investment. SS gives funds, gets bonds. Later, the ss redeems bonds, gets funds to pay benefits. Nice try, but totally dishonest.

C) Multiple commissions and politicians WARNED that these MEMOS were gonna be hard to redeem if the USA was still running a deficit at the time of redemption. That there would be a fantastically painful SS crisis coming.. And then they went back to bickering about trivial shit..

Only agenda driven cons like you, who lie like rugs.

D) Day comes when there is no more surplus to steal.. The SS fund goes into NEGATIVE balance (2010) and cant' pay as they go out of payroll reciepts. SS brainiacs call up the Treasury and request a redemption of $50B in PROMISES..

Funny. You missed the fact that the ss admin is still paying benefits in full, and has borrowed nothing. Wrong again, me lying tool.

E) Treasury calls China and offers them a deal on a REAL treasury bond. China says sure if ya pay me enough interest and keep buying Happy Meal toys from us. The BONDS ARE ISSUED.. Debt to the US taxpayers is LOGGED under the OFFICIAL BUDGET and Rshermr starts paying interest to China on that bond. Politicos fight because this raises the OFFICIAL DEBT sky-high and threatens to blow the CEILING right off the Debt.

Nice fantasy. No basis in truth, me lying con tool.

F) China says ---- we want our MONEY on the bond you sold us in 2010 like we promised. Rshermr is asked to pony ANOTHER PILE of dollars to pay China WITH INTEREST.

More nice fantasy, me lying con tool. Funny how those chinese keep bying our gov bonds. And we keep buying their products. Get a grip.

What has Rshermr paid to pay $1 to a current SS reciepient?

1) The dollar that was stolen from his paycheck Aug 16th 1971..

Not theft. Just the drivel of a con tool, again. If you want to get rid of ss, bring it to a vote in congress. See how that works out, dipshit. GW tried to move that direction, and got his ass kicked.

2) The ficticious SS INTEREST on the debt memo that sat on a ledger at SSA for 20 years. Probably some MORE Rshermr. pocket change goes out..

Perhaps a remedial accounting class would help you, dipshit. On the ledger of the ss admin was an asset. In the form of a performing security. Which has and will always pay back.

3) The dollar that REPAYS China in 2018 for the bond they bought in 2010.

More fantasy. The ss funds do not pay china. They are invested in bonds as required by law, and pay back to the ss admin when requested.

4) The INTEREST on that bond that China bought to bail out the SS fund..

China does not bail out anything, me lying con tool.

Rshermr pays that $1 to the current recipient (or himself) by paying over $2.5 dollars..
AND he doesn't even realize he's been robbed..

Nonsense. All impartial studies prove you are lying. As usual. If I am still living, and do continue to live beyond the average age of death in this country, I make more back from ss than I paid in. If not, I get less. Kinda like insurance, me boy.

True story.. I swear...

Funny. You lie like a rug and then say true story.

There is NOTHING of value in the SS Trust FUnd.. Lemme have THEM tell you that again..

From the Social Security Admin (you can get the same message from CBO or any number of sources.. )))

Sorry. Your source says just the opposite. It states, in short, that ss payments are now greater in size than are ss tax receipts. Nothing new their, me boy. It says that there is sufficient value in the ss trust funds to pay full benefits until 2037. And thereafter, to pay 75% of benefits until 2083. And outlines how the future shortfall can be eliminated. Which it will, of course, and as it always has.

So, no, there is indeed something of value in the ss fund. If you look elsewhere, you will find that to be over $2.7 TRILLION Payable only to the ss administration. Very, very safe. So, to me, that is of value. Sorry you think it is not of value. But then, you ARE a congenital con tool idiot. By the way, dipshit, their is no SS Trust FUnd. But they do have a number of investment funds, totaling over $2.7 trillion.

Why that's the same story that Bernie Madoff told all his clients.. Who votes for a trainload of orange jumpsuits??

Now, problem is Maddoff committed fraud. The ss admin never, ever has. See the difference yet, dipshit?

Show of hands...

What ARE you doing with your hands, me boy??

 

[flacaltenn]

So, flactation, or whomever, says the following:

Cut the crap..

I provide truth. You are pitching crap.

I'm gonna explained to you how you've been raped and robbed without apparently knowing a crime has occurred..

Good. Is this in the future, or in the past. Maybe a remedial english class..

Naa. I do not buy your con tool drivel. I simply disprove it.
The funds, over $2.7 Trillion, pay only to the ss admin as required by law. To the ss admin, they are a very safe investment, which has and continues to pay in full when requested. That, me boy, is the fact. To the ss admin, they are liquid assets that they redeem when necessary.

That is lie number two (of many by you). It has no value to anyone but the ss administration. To them it has total value. That is, dipshit, the value paid in plus interest.


And another lie. I paid once for the benefits of the people who were before me, me poor con.



Nice. You just proved you are delusional. Is there a number I can call to have you committed???

You are, of course, comparing ss to an investment program. Which it is not. It is an annuity with a end date of DEATH. So, if you die at 65, you are probably going to be found to have gotten much less back than you paid in. But if you live to normal life expectancy age, you will have receive well more than you paid in to SS.
PolitiFact | Medicare and Social Security: What you paid compared with what you get

And under no case has the treasury ever robbed the fund, or refused to pay the funds plus interest as promised. Just more of your lies, me lying con tool.


You are, of course, saying that the us gov and the treasury in particularly took the funds used by the ss admin to buy special treasury instruments, as required by law, and used it to buy whatever they had in mind. Which, of course, is what happens any time you buy bonds, either private or governmental. That, of course, is not theft. If it were, we would have the federal courts filled with cases. Because, that is normal. What matters is if the funds paid in to the ss program are paid back with interest. And they are, always. Simple investment. You need to study a little. And stop the lying.



Nope. Of course not. The ss admin invested it's funds, and got back what they paid in in full with interest. It does not effect the national debt because it is fully paid for funds by the ss admin. In other words, me lying tool, it is a transfer of assets. Standard investment. SS gives funds, gets bonds. Later, the ss redeems bonds, gets funds to pay benefits. Nice try, but totally dishonest.



Only agenda driven cons like you, who lie like rugs.


Funny. You missed the fact that the ss admin is still paying benefits in full, and has borrowed nothing. Wrong again, me lying tool.




Nice fantasy. No basis in truth, me lying con tool.



More nice fantasy, me lying con tool. Funny how those chinese keep bying our gov bonds. And we keep buying their products. Get a grip.


Not theft. Just the drivel of a con tool, again. If you want to get rid of ss, bring it to a vote in congress. See how that works out, dipshit. GW tried to move that direction, and got his ass kicked.


Perhaps a remedial accounting class would help you, dipshit. On the ledger of the ss admin was an asset. In the form of a performing security. Which has and will always pay back.


More fantasy. The ss funds do not pay china. They are invested in bonds as required by law, and pay back to the ss admin when requested.


China does not bail out anything, me lying con tool.


Nonsense. All impartial studies prove you are lying. As usual. If I am still living, and do continue to live beyond the average age of death in this country, I make more back from ss than I paid in. If not, I get less. Kinda like insurance, me boy.

Funny. You lie like a rug and then say true story.



Sorry. Your source says just the opposite. It states, in short, that ss payments are now greater in size than are ss tax receipts. Nothing new their, me boy. It says that there is sufficient value in the ss trust funds to pay full benefits until 2037. And thereafter, to pay 75% of benefits until 2083. And outlines how the future shortfall can be eliminated. Which it will, of course, and as it always has.

So, no, there is indeed something of value in the ss fund. If you look elsewhere, you will find that to be over $2.7 TRILLION Payable only to the ss administration. Very, very safe. So, to me, that is of value. Sorry you think it is not of value. But then, you ARE a congenital con tool idiot. By the way, dipshit, their is no SS Trust FUnd. But they do have a number of investment funds, totaling over $2.7 trillion.

Why that's the same story that Bernie Madoff told all his clients.. Who votes for a trainload of orange jumpsuits??

Now, problem is Maddoff committed fraud. The ss admin never, ever has. See the difference yet, dipshit?

Show of hands...

What ARE you doing with your hands, me boy??

They are NOT liquid assets.. I GAVE YOU the quote from SSAdmin..

Neither the redemption of trust fund bonds, nor
interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury,
which must finance redemptions and interest payments through
some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government
spending, or additional borrowing from the public.

What part of that didn't you understand? When the PROMISES are redeemed the Treasury MUST do one of those 3 things. The promise notes in the Trust are not bonds, they do not show up as commited debt in the Treasury Budget. Since we are operating in deficit, the redemption request REQUIRES that the Treasury issue NEW DEBT (get money from China) to pay off the Promise Note.

When you say that the Treasury PAYS OFF the promise notes as tho they are good are gold --- where the FUCK do you think the money came from?

The taxpayers have paid two and half times for every dollar the politicians stole. The government didn't INVEST anything.

You've provided NO evidence and you've ignored every sourced fact I've posted..

Simple dude.. You are in denial.. I'll leave it to someone else to explain to you what happened when all this comes crashing down.. You've been lied to for DECADES you fool.

Just to show you what REAL FACTS and assertions look like --- let's take this to another source.. How about the CBOffice??

CBO | Federal Debt and Interest Costs

Gross debt, which comprises federal debt held by the public plus Treasury securities held by federal trust funds and other government accounts, is sometimes used to evaluate the government's overall fiscal situation. At the end of 2010, gross federal debt totaled $13.5 trillion--the $9.0 trillion in debt held by the public plus $4.5 trillion in debt held by government accounts. More than half of the latter amount is held by the Social Security trust funds. Because those trust funds and other government accounts are part of the federal government, transactions between them and the Treasury are intragovernmental; that is, the government securities in those funds are an asset to the individual programs but a liability to the rest of the government. The resources needed to redeem the government securities in the trust funds and other accounts in some future year must be generated from taxes, income from other government sources, or borrowing by the government in that year.

We're done unless you SPECIFICALLY answer the 2 questions..

1) What part of that quote from the SS Admin (or CBO) didn't you understand?

2) Where does the money come from when the Treasury pays on the Promise notices?
Which of the three choices in that SSA quote did the payoff come from? additional taxes? reduction in spending? or did it come from additional borrowing?

For #2 ---- Did the value or the money come out of the SS Trust Fund? No it didn't..
I gave you 2 sources for that.. In 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 ---- It came from our OWNERS in China and elsewhere..

Ponder that before you make a further fool of yourself.. Don't get me wrong -- you have the right to remain an ignorant fool.. Just don't bother to answer my questions..

 

[Rshermr]

Sp. flacwhatever, says:

They are NOT liquid assets.. I GAVE YOU the quote from SSAdmin..

Look up the term "liquid assets" and you would know that those assets are liquid to the ss admin. They redeem them and they get the funds including interest. EVER SINGLE TIME. The definition of liquid assets, me poor ignorant con. I suspect this is not your fault. You are simply stupid. By the way, I should not have to keep educating you, dipshit. Not my fault you are ignorant.

Neither the redemption of trust fund bonds, nor
interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury,
which must finance redemptions and interest payments through
some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government
spending, or additional borrowing from the public.

Me boy, when you issue bonds, you do not pay the recipient (the ss admin, in this case) to issue those instruments. Nor do you make money on the instuments as the issuer. The RECIPIENT does, dipshit. As always. Get a clue. Relative to how the treasury covers interest and administrative costs of it's issued securities, it is probably done through standard open operations. Perhaps issuing t bills to some group, or many groups. Next?? Trivial in comparison with ss funding.

What part of that didn't you understand? When the PROMISES are redeemed the Treasury MUST do one of those 3 things. The promise notes in the Trust are not bonds, they do not show up as commited debt in the Treasury Budget. Since we are operating in deficit, the redemption request REQUIRES that the Treasury issue NEW DEBT (get money from China) to pay off the Promise Note.

See above dipshit. You are saying that the ss bills which the ss admin purchased with funds must be redeemed for funds. Profound, dipshit. Did you have a point??

When you say that the Treasury PAYS OFF the promise notes as tho they are good are gold --- where the FUCK do you think the money came from?

I did not say good are gold. My english is generally better. Now, what are you suggesting?? That they refuse to pay back the funds that paid for those securities in the first place??
The taxpayers have paid two and half times for every dollar the politicians stole. The government didn't INVEST anything.

You've provided NO evidence and you've ignored every sourced fact I've posted..

Tell me what I have said that you do not believe. I will be happy to provide sources. No problem at all. I am simply used to dealing with rational, honest people. I have that problem with you. And I did not ignore your sources. They do not, as you insist, say that the ss finds were raided. They say exactly the opposite. They do not say that the ss trusts are empty. They say exactly the opposite. You should start by reading your own sources.

Simple dude.. You are in denial.. I'll leave it to someone else to explain to you what happened when all this comes crashing down.. You've been lied to for DECADES you fool.[/QUOTE]
Me poor ignorant con tool, we are NOT talking about the treasury. We are concerned with the ss funds invested in securities issued by the treasury. The treasury, me poor ignorant con tool, gets its value from useing the value provided them by ss admin funds for current expenditures. When it pays back the money in the future, it pays principal amounts plus interest. Got that yet. Treasury gains the current value of the funds, ss admin makes interest and has a secure source to keep the funds. Why is this so hard for you. Just because it is not what you want to believe???

Just to show you what REAL FACTS and assertions look like --- let's take this to another source.. How about the CBOffice??

CBO | Federal Debt and Interest Costs

Gross debt, which comprises federal debt held by the public plus Treasury securities held by federal trust funds and other government accounts, is sometimes used to evaluate the government's overall fiscal situation. At the end of 2010, gross federal debt totaled $13.5 trillion--the $9.0 trillion in debt held by the public plus $4.5 trillion in debt held by government accounts. More than half of the latter amount is held by the Social Security trust funds. Because those trust funds and other government accounts are part of the federal government, transactions between them and the Treasury are intragovernmental; that is, the government securities in those funds are an asset to the individual programs but a liability to the rest of the government. The resources needed to redeem the government securities in the trust funds and other accounts in some future year must be generated from taxes, income from other government sources, or borrowing by the government in that year.

Did you think there is a point here??? Gov issued securities to the ss admin for funds received, and must pay back the ss admin when those funds are needed. Standard investment. Did you have a point???

We're done unless you SPECIFICALLY answer the 2 questions..

OK

1) What part of that quote from the SS Admin (or CBO) didn't you understand?

No part, me poor ignorant con tool. As I have been saying, the us treasury has debt to the ss admin of close to $2.7T. Sorry it is news to you.

2) Where does the money come from when the Treasury pays on the Promise notices?
Which of the three choices in that SSA quote did the payoff come from? additional taxes? reduction in spending? or did it come from additional borrowing?

Any number of sources. Probably normal open market operations by the fed. What is your guess??

For #2 ---- Did the value or the money come out of the SS Trust Fund? No it didn't..
I gave you 2 sources for that.. In 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 ---- It came from our OWNERS in China and elsewhere..

You offer NO proof of that, me boy. Just your opinion. And you knopw how much I value your opinion. The fact is, it could have come from anyone in any country, including our own. It could have come from any investment program that purchased bonds issued by the fed. Or, it could have come from a number of other sources. As the cbo noted. Dipshit.


So, we are all waiting to see where the ss trust funds were robbed. You said it, but can not prove it. Apparently you believe it is because the ss admin invested in treasury securities. Which you believe have no value. But which pay off, year after year after year.

Investments to rational people do not equal robbery. Only to those who are congenital idiots. Like you.
And, still waiting for the proof you say you have that the ss trust funds are empty. Every source says you are lying. Really, go look up the word INTEGRITY.

Your posts align perfectly with only one place. The bat shit crazy con sites that post dogma. Funny. Is that a coincidence me dear con tool? Of course, it makes no difference what you say, since the words of a proven liar are of no import.

 

[flacaltenn]

Didn't answer the question.. From which of the 3 sources (that the SSA and CBO are telling you are options) did the Treasury GET the $50B that SSAdmin ASKED FOR in 2010?

Did it come from:

1) increased taxes
2) reductions in spending
3) issuing new DEBT instruments on the backs of current taxpayers

What was your guess??

"open market operations" ---- NOW ME BOY ---- you're walkin' the plank...
When did I miss it was another "talk like a pirate" day?

I just told you -- the crap in the Trust FUnd is non-negotiable, non-transferable outside of govt..

Guess again me hardy.... Aye..

 

[flacaltenn]

Okay.. I'm worried now. It's been DAYZZZ since I heard from RShermr. I'm afraid he took the news about the Trust Fund being a gimmick very badly..

I warned him to have the Suicide Hotline Number ready.. Can anyone just check in on him and tell me he's OK??

Any other misinformed leftists who don't know they've been raped, pillaged and lied to??
It's a nasty job --- but someone's gotta do it ---- right??