Property Rights Take a Hit

[Toro]

Second of all, "society" doesn't exist in any objectively quantifiable sense, nor does "justice".

I could be a mob boss and spin the same bullshit story about how "society" knows what's good for it in paying up for my protection racket.

That is a very interesting statement in the first line. Most would disagree with you.

As for the mob boss, since by definition organized crime is illegal, your analogy is false, especially since the mob boss does not determine what is good for society.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

No, I wouldn't support selling heroin to a 13 year old. I'd say if drugs were legalized then they would be highly regulated in the same vein as alcohol, so I doubt it would be legal to sell heroin to 13 year olds regardless.

Why would you highly regulate the sale of alcohol or drugs? What business is it of yours who I buy heroin or cocaine from? Why shouldn't I be allowed to deal out of my home in an upscale leafy neighborhood, and have prostitution rings and crack whores coming in and out at all times of the day?

I wouldn't highly regulate anything, I'm simply assuming that it would be a highly regulated market such as alcohol. I'm not worried about who you buy your heroin from, but if the market is providing legitimate sources for you to purchase heroin or prostitutes then I don't see the drug dealers and pimps or whoever staying in business all that long. I just don't think they'd be able to compete because nobody would want to deal with them if they've got more legitimate means to procure what they want.

 

[Toro]

you should be able to. but children should not be included in these endeavors.

I don't think I should be allowed to and I especially don't think that children should.


Hey Dude

Do you think people should be allowed to have sex on their front lawns in the middle of the afternoon? Nobody is getting hurt and those two (or more) people aren't hurting anyone.

 

[Toro]

I wouldn't highly regulate anything, I'm simply assuming that it would be a highly regulated market such as alcohol. I'm not worried about who you buy your heroin from, but if the market is providing legitimate sources for you to purchase heroin or prostitutes then I don't see the drug dealers and pimps or whoever staying in business all that long. I just don't think they'd be able to compete because nobody would want to deal with them if they've got more legitimate means to procure what they want.

If you legalized drugs and prostitution, corporations would set up to provide you with those services, eventually driving the low-lifes out of business.

You are correct about the drug pushers existing because of government regulation. You cannot stop supply and demand. When the government tries to regulate the supply and demand of something too much, the price rises to the point where the rewards to organized crime outweighs the risk, bringing that element of society into the market to supply the demand.

 

[elvis]

I wouldn't highly regulate anything, I'm simply assuming that it would be a highly regulated market such as alcohol. I'm not worried about who you buy your heroin from, but if the market is providing legitimate sources for you to purchase heroin or prostitutes then I don't see the drug dealers and pimps or whoever staying in business all that long. I just don't think they'd be able to compete because nobody would want to deal with them if they've got more legitimate means to procure what they want.

If you legalized drugs and prostitution, corporations would set up to provide you with those services, eventually driving the low-lifes out of business.

You are correct about the drug pushers existing because of government regulation. You cannot stop supply and demand. When the government tries to regulate the supply and demand of something too much, the price rises to the point where the rewards to organized crime outweighs the risk, bringing that element of society into the market to supply the demand.

Why not legalize them?

 

[Toro]

I wouldn't highly regulate anything, I'm simply assuming that it would be a highly regulated market such as alcohol. I'm not worried about who you buy your heroin from, but if the market is providing legitimate sources for you to purchase heroin or prostitutes then I don't see the drug dealers and pimps or whoever staying in business all that long. I just don't think they'd be able to compete because nobody would want to deal with them if they've got more legitimate means to procure what they want.

If you legalized drugs and prostitution, corporations would set up to provide you with those services, eventually driving the low-lifes out of business.

You are correct about the drug pushers existing because of government regulation. You cannot stop supply and demand. When the government tries to regulate the supply and demand of something too much, the price rises to the point where the rewards to organized crime outweighs the risk, bringing that element of society into the market to supply the demand.

Why not legalize them?

Prostitution absolutely definitely should be legal. I see no reason why if two people want to have a commercial transaction for sex, they should not be allowed to.

In theory, I'm in favor of legalizing drugs, but I'm not sure. Make no mistake about it, criminal gangs make literally billions of dollars from this trade. They exist because of the drug trade. However, the costs of legalizing hard drugs such as heroin may be much bigger than those promoting legalization claim. We should legalize pot tomorrow. Booze is a far worse drug than pot.

 

[Oddball]

Second of all, "society" doesn't exist in any objectively quantifiable sense, nor does "justice".

I could be a mob boss and spin the same bullshit story about how "society" knows what's good for it in paying up for my protection racket.

That is a very interesting statement in the first line. Most would disagree with you.

As for the mob boss, since by definition organized crime is illegal, your analogy is false, especially since the mob boss does not determine what is good for society.

In case you hadn't noticed, I don't give a hoot in hell what most would disagree with me about.....The simple fact is that you cannot quantify either nominalized non-corporeal concept, to the point that you can put it in a pickup truck, the opinion of "most people" nonwitstanding.

The only reason you don't give credence to the mob analogy is because you've determined your favored mob to be legitimate.

 

[Toro]

In case you hadn't noticed, I don't give a hoot in hell what most would disagree with me about.....The simple fact is that you cannot quantify either nominalized non-corporeal concept, to the point that you can put it in a pickup truck, the opinion of "most people" nonwitstanding.

The only reason you don't give credence to the mob analogy is because you've determined your favored mob to be legitimate.

Yes, I believe democracy to be legitimate.

Justice is what people believe is right and fair. Society is the common interaction and organization of people.

Do you believe that people should be allowed to have sex on their front lawns in the middle of the afternoon?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

If you legalized drugs and prostitution, corporations would set up to provide you with those services, eventually driving the low-lifes out of business.

You are correct about the drug pushers existing because of government regulation. You cannot stop supply and demand. When the government tries to regulate the supply and demand of something too much, the price rises to the point where the rewards to organized crime outweighs the risk, bringing that element of society into the market to supply the demand.

Why not legalize them?

Prostitution absolutely definitely should be legal. I see no reason why if two people want to have a commercial transaction for sex, they should not be allowed to.

In theory, I'm in favor of legalizing drugs, but I'm not sure. Make no mistake about it, criminal gangs make literally billions of dollars from this trade. They exist because of the drug trade. However, the costs of legalizing hard drugs such as heroin may be much bigger than those promoting legalization claim. We should legalize pot tomorrow. Booze is a far worse drug than pot.

There is a huge market in illegal guns too, shall we legalize THAT also?

 

[elvis]

Why not legalize them?

Prostitution absolutely definitely should be legal. I see no reason why if two people want to have a commercial transaction for sex, they should not be allowed to.

In theory, I'm in favor of legalizing drugs, but I'm not sure. Make no mistake about it, criminal gangs make literally billions of dollars from this trade. They exist because of the drug trade. However, the costs of legalizing hard drugs such as heroin may be much bigger than those promoting legalization claim. We should legalize pot tomorrow. Booze is a far worse drug than pot.

There is a huge market in illegal guns too, shall we legalize THAT also?

Yes.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

If I'm not paying rent then am I free to stop paying my taxes? Or would I be arrested and have my property confiscated? Not paying taxes on property constitutes anarchy?

No, you are not free to stop paying taxes. You are free in a democratic society to convince everyone else to stop paying taxes. If the people in a democracy agree with you, then you no longer have to pay taxes because the democratic polity will pass laws to stop paying taxes.

We will have anarchy because you cannot pick and choose which laws you will obey. All laws are a democratic compromise. More practically, someone has to pay the police and the armed forces and the courts and the public prosecutors and so on.

And yet YOU argue we should allow Prostitution and illegal drugs as legal. Go figure.

 

[Care4all]

No, I wouldn't support selling heroin to a 13 year old. I'd say if drugs were legalized then they would be highly regulated in the same vein as alcohol, so I doubt it would be legal to sell heroin to 13 year olds regardless.

Why would you highly regulate the sale of alcohol or drugs? What business is it of yours who I buy heroin or cocaine from? Why shouldn't I be allowed to deal out of my home in an upscale leafy neighborhood, and have prostitution rings and crack whores coming in and out at all times of the day?

I wouldn't highly regulate anything, I'm simply assuming that it would be a highly regulated market such as alcohol. I'm not worried about who you buy your heroin from, but if the market is providing legitimate sources for you to purchase heroin or prostitutes then I don't see the drug dealers and pimps or whoever staying in business all that long. I just don't think they'd be able to compete because nobody would want to deal with them if they've got more legitimate means to procure what they want.

They could probably still stay in business if they offered the product black market at cheaper prices than the regulated product.

 

[Oddball]

Yes, I believe democracy to be legitimate.

The framers of the American republic, along with myself, disagree with you.

Justice is what people believe is right and fair. Society is the common interaction and organization of people.

So, you're an anarchist now??

Do you believe that people should be allowed to have sex on their front lawns in the middle of the afternoon?

Red herring, born of the naïve presumption that the only reason people don't do this or that is because there's a law against it.

 

[Citizen]

Yes, I believe democracy to be legitimate.

The framers of the American republic, along with myself, disagree with you.

Justice is what people believe is right and fair. Society is the common interaction and organization of people.

So, you're an anarchist now??

Do you believe that people should be allowed to have sex on their front lawns in the middle of the afternoon?

Red herring, born of the naïve presumption that the only reason people don't do this or that is because there's a law against it.

My opinion is the same as Thomas Jefferson, who said:

"Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual."

 

[Oddball]

I don't need any help from you , Eric.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Why would you highly regulate the sale of alcohol or drugs? What business is it of yours who I buy heroin or cocaine from? Why shouldn't I be allowed to deal out of my home in an upscale leafy neighborhood, and have prostitution rings and crack whores coming in and out at all times of the day?

I wouldn't highly regulate anything, I'm simply assuming that it would be a highly regulated market such as alcohol. I'm not worried about who you buy your heroin from, but if the market is providing legitimate sources for you to purchase heroin or prostitutes then I don't see the drug dealers and pimps or whoever staying in business all that long. I just don't think they'd be able to compete because nobody would want to deal with them if they've got more legitimate means to procure what they want.

They could probably still stay in business if they offered the product black market at cheaper prices than the regulated product.

Well if a product is legalized but highly regulated then that's exactly what will happen. However, if it's simply legalized and the market is allowed to operate then I don't see the black market being able to outsell more legitimate businesses.

 

[Toro]

Red herring, born of the naïve presumption that the only reason people don't do this or that is because there's a law against it.

You are ducking the question.

I'm asking you your opinion whether or not it should be legal for people to have sex on their front lawns in the middle of the afternoon? It has nothing to do with whether or not people actually do it. It is whether or not they have the right to do it.

After all, it meets your two standards - it is your property and you should be able to do whatever you want on your own property, and it harms no one else.

 

[Toro]

And yet YOU argue we should allow Prostitution and illegal drugs as legal. Go figure.

I am arguing that if we believe your line of logic - it is my property and it harms no one else - then what business is it of the government's to ban prostitution of taking illegal drugs?