Putin's Bombers Could Devastate Ukraine But He's Holding Back. Here's Why

[Mac1958]

Being a hypocrite is natural to you, I didn't actually expect you to understand.

Attacks won't change the fact that you're another Putin apologist.

 

[bendog]

Russia is doing nothing we haven't done. No need to be a drama queen about it. I don't hate America for what we've done. Yet I won't hold Russia to different standards.

No matter how you cut it, we did not level Bagdad. Falluju ... yeah. But we did not go to Iraq to occupy it.

That's the difference. PUtin wants to put an entire country under his boot. The US doesn't use the military for that. And we've never declared all non-combatants combatants ... with the exception of Japan. And that arguably saved more Japanese in the long run.

But aside from logical fallacy failed comparisons, did anyone notice Russia now says it can legitimately use nukes if Russia is threatened by Nato.

Putin has right to start nuclear war if provoked by Nato, top Russian diplomat warns

'Why not? We are a nuclear power.'

www.yahoo.com

What's a threat to Russia? Telling it to GTFO of Ukraine or else face econ consequences .... and see Ukraine armed to the teeth to defend itself?

Russia may be saying that denying it the right to invade and occupy Ukraine is threatening Russia's right to exist.

It think the reality is if Russia can't do it, Nato is threating Putin's hold on power.

 

[Rogue AI]

Attacks won't change the fact that you're another Putin apologist.

I don't apologize for Putin, he seems capable of making his own decisions and living with them. I simply refuse to jump on the propaganda Twinkle Toes Zelensky bandwagon because he's corrupt trash. That hurts your feelings, because none of you folks are bothering to look at this objectively. This isn't in America's interests.

 

[bendog]

There is a difference between a draft and absolute mobilization. If the government drafts or mobilizes the people they are responsible for setting them apart from noncombatants. That failure in this case falls on Zelensky.

Nagasaki, Hiroshima, Dresden, and other places were specifically targeting civilians, we have no moral high ground here. Placing double standards on others will not aid us in the future. It makes us look like hypocrites and bullies. If we build up too much international resentment, we will pay a heavy price for in in the future, maybe sooner than we think.

Look at our actions over the last 70 years, we have left far more wreckage than successes in our wake. We are the last people who should be judging others. We seriously need to rethink our own goals going forward. Getting ourselves involved in this mess in Ukraine does nothing for us, especially since we have a slew of domestic issues that actually effect the lives of Americans.

Dresden was not on US. We never did area bombing in Europe. My godfather died of PTSD after bombing trains in Italy ... but trains are military targets ... even if crewed by unwilling civilians. War sucks, it's to be avoided.

Yes, we targeted all of Japan as a military target. But we didn't start the war. I knew a medal of honor winner who told me the people on Iwo and Okinawa killed themselves because our guys were more likely to shoot first and look for civilians later. We ended that war with as few US casualites, and Japanese, as possible. we didn't occupy anyplace longer than necessary to rebuild an economy. Do you really fail to see the distinction between the US and Russia.?

Our rationale for Vietnam and Iraq were flawed. But I don't think I'd be saying any American servicemen engaged in indiscriminate bombing of civilians.

 

[bendog]

There is a difference between a draft and absolute mobilization. If the government drafts or mobilizes the people they are responsible for setting them apart from noncombatants. That failure in this case falls on Zelensky.

Nagasaki, Hiroshima, Dresden, and other places were specifically targeting civilians, we have no moral high ground here. Placing double standards on others will not aid us in the future. It makes us look like hypocrites and bullies. If we build up too much international resentment, we will pay a heavy price for in in the future, maybe sooner than we think.

Look at our actions over the last 70 years, we have left far more wreckage than successes in our wake. We are the last people who should be judging others. We seriously need to rethink our own goals going forward. Getting ourselves involved in this mess in Ukraine does nothing for us, especially since we have a slew of domestic issues that actually effect the lives of Americans.

That's bullshit. Putin INVADED. ALL OF UKRAINE IS A BATTLEFIELD. Your logic is bullshit in light of facts from 1787 (and it was a dirty war) and 1861. Civilians were not targets, and soldiers were not always in unforms.

Now if you want to say the US should not be in for wars, and we should seek peace even after most of us would say it's not gonna work ... that'd be fine. BUT YOU ARE APOLOGIZING FOR PUTIN TARGETING WOMEN AND CHILDREN.

 

[Rogue AI]

No matter how you cut it, we did not level Bagdad. Falluju ... yeah. But we did not go to Iraq to occupy it.

That's the difference. PUtin wants to put an entire country under his boot. The US doesn't use the military for that. And we've never declared all non-combatants combatants ... with the exception of Japan. And that arguably saved more Japanese in the long run.

But aside from logical fallacy failed comparisons, did anyone notice Russia now says it can legitimately use nukes if Russia is threatened by Nato.

Putin has right to start nuclear war if provoked by Nato, top Russian diplomat warns

'Why not? We are a nuclear power.'

www.yahoo.com

What's a threat to Russia? Telling it to GTFO of Ukraine or else face econ consequences .... and see Ukraine armed to the teeth to defend itself?

Russia may be saying that denying it the right to invade and occupy Ukraine is threatening Russia's right to exist.

It think the reality is if Russia can't do it, Nato is threating Putin's hold on power.

We didn't get to the West coast singing Kumbaya and handing out flowers.

I'll just stop you at 'except' in reference to Japan. You ignore Dresden and other direct targeting of civilians. Whether on purpose or accident doesn't make the victims less dead. That's just making false justifications and excuses. Again, I don't hate America for what we've done, but I won't sugar coat nor expect others to live to hypocritical standards.

Didn't we threaten to nuke the Soviets a few times? Do you folks listen to yourselves?

 

[Turtlesoup]

Contra the Western and Ukrainian driven propaganda that is daily fed to people.

The author is a highly regarded expert.

​

As destructive as the Ukraine war is, Russia is causing less damage and killing fewer civilians than it could, U.S. intelligence experts say.​

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...​

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"The destruction is massive," a senior analyst working at the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) tells Newsweek, "especially when compared with what Europeans and Americans are used to seeing."​

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But, the analyst says, the damage associated with a contested ground war involving peer opponents shouldn't blind people to what is really happening. (The analyst requested anonymity in order to speak about classified matters.) "The heart of Kyiv has barely been touched. And almost all of the long-range strikes have been aimed at military targets."​

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...​

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"We need to understand Russia's actual conduct," says a retired Air Force officer, a lawyer by training who has been involved in approving targets for U.S. fights in Iraq and Afghanistan. The officer currently works as an analyst with a large military contractor advising the Pentagon and was granted anonymity in order to speak candidly.​

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"If we merely convince ourselves that Russia is bombing indiscriminately, or [that] it is failing to inflict more harm because its personnel are not up to the task or because it is technically inept, then we are not seeing the real conflict."​

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In the analyst's view, though the war has led to unprecedented destruction in the south and east, the Russian military has actually been showing restraint in its long-range attacks.​

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...​

MSN

www.msn.com

How do I explain this..

Russia shouldn't be in Ukraine at all killing anyone.

 

[Rogue AI]

Dresden was not on US. We never did area bombing in Europe. My godfather died of PTSD after bombing trains in Italy ... but trains are military targets ... even if crewed by unwilling civilians. War sucks, it's to be avoided.

Yes, we targeted all of Japan as a military target. But we didn't start the war. I knew a medal of honor winner who told me the people on Iwo and Okinawa killed themselves because our guys were more likely to shoot first and look for civilians later. We ended that war with as few US casualites, and Japanese, as possible. we didn't occupy anyplace longer than necessary to rebuild an economy. Do you really fail to see the distinction between the US and Russia.?

Our rationale for Vietnam and Iraq were flawed. But I don't think I'd be saying any American servicemen engaged in indiscriminate bombing of civilians.

We participated in Dresden. We also firebombed Tokoyo. You're just making excuses, that doesn't help us move forward as a nation. It sets us back.

I believe in general our government and our Constitution, make us superior to Russia in every way. That doesn't mean we can whine about what Russia does if we aren't willing to stop it. That's all we doing, our so-called government is whining, and stupidly thinking they can control the world without getting their hands dirty. Russia is a wasteful distraction, the real threat is red China.

 

[excalibur]

Gabe Lackmann

You failed to mention the main point: Putin wants back the Russian part of Ukraine and to make the rest of Ukraine a neutral country. Biden will agree to this after he tries to establishe himself as a tough guy and convince the American people that it is their patriotic duty to lower their standard of living.

Biden basically said that today about ceding territory (Biden said a while back that a little incursion wasn't a big deal).

Meaning this stupid war could have been avoided except we and the EU encouraged the dope Zelensky to go the war route.

Ukraine should have taken the path that Austria took in 1955, one of neutrality built into their constitution.

Meanwhile, Germany and other EU countries continue purchasing Russian oil and natural gas. But yeah, Biden said today that NATO has never been so united as it is now.

 

[bendog]

We didn't get to the West coast singing Kumbaya and handing out flowers.

I'll just stop you at 'except' in reference to Japan. You ignore Dresden and other direct targeting of civilians. Whether on purpose or accident doesn't make the victims less dead. That's just making false justifications and excuses. Again, I don't hate America for what we've done, but I won't sugar coat nor expect others to live to hypocritical standards.

Didn't we threaten to nuke the Soviets a few times? Do you folks listen to yourselves?

Yes it makes a difference if civilians are targeted or just caught up. The Eighth Airforce in WWII literally took extra casualites in the tens of thousands to make that distinction.

I'm not going to waste my time with discussing native americans. Not exactly an analogy. To say nothing of slavery. But you might do well to study how "white" civilians were treated by both sides in our bloodiest war 1861-65.

 

[excalibur]

We participated in Dresden. We also firebombed Tokoyo. You're just making excuses, that doesn't help us move forward as a nation. It sets us back.

I believe in general our government and our Constitution, make us superior to Russia in every way. That doesn't mean we can whine about what Russia does if we aren't willing to stop it. That's all we doing, our so-called government is whining, and stupidly thinking they can control the world without getting their hands dirty. Russia is a wasteful distraction, the real threat is red China.

The real threat is the Democratic Party and the useful idiot Republicans. The enemy within.

 

[excalibur]

It's like saying "I stabbed him 5 times but it could have been worse". You're a fucking idiot.

And you are a fucking derp. See, two can play that game, derp.

 

[Rogue AI]

That's bullshit. Putin INVADED. ALL OF UKRAINE IS A BATTLEFIELD. Your logic is bullshit in light of facts from 1787 (and it was a dirty war) and 1861. Civilians were not targets, and soldiers were not always in unforms.

Now if you want to say the US should not be in for wars, and we should seek peace even after most of us would say it's not gonna work ... that'd be fine. BUT YOU ARE APOLOGIZING FOR PUTIN TARGETING WOMEN AND CHILDREN.

Sherman's March to the Sea. Thanks for playing.

 

[bendog]

Sherman's March to the Sea. Thanks for playing.

Shermans March to the Sea.

Consequences of the March​

Sherman’s march frightened and appalled Southerners. It hurt morale, for civilians had believed the Confederacy could protect the home front. Sherman had terrorized the countryside; his men had destroyed all sources of food and forage and had left behind a hungry and demoralized people. Although he did not level any towns, he did destroy buildings in places where there was resistance. His men had shown little sympathy for Millen, the site of Camp Lawton, where Union prisoners of war were held. Physical attacks on white civilians were few, although it is not known how enslaved women fared at the hands of the invaders. Often enslaved men posted guards outside the cabins of their female friends and relatives.
--
The point was never to murder civilians.

Sherman's March to the Sea - New Georgia Encyclopedia

The March to the Sea, the most destructive campaign against a civilian population during the Civil War (1861-65), began in Atlanta on November 15, 1864, and concluded in Savannah on December 21, 1864. Union general William T. Sherman abandoned his supply line and marched across Georgia to the...

www.georgiaencyclopedia.org

But I'm really done with this bullshit and false equivalency argument.

The only reason I came back to the thread was to ASK THE QUESTION:

What if the Russian threat to use nukes "because Nato threatens Russia" is in their view a threat to Russian imperial designs of recovering their lost empire, and the continued rule of Putin?

Because I think Nato and Ukrain's bottom like is for Russia to GTFO, and long term over five or more years, Russia doesn't have a chance. There's plenty of oil and plenty of fertilizer and farmland.

 

[Rogue AI]

Shermans March to the Sea.

Consequences of the March​

Sherman’s march frightened and appalled Southerners. It hurt morale, for civilians had believed the Confederacy could protect the home front. Sherman had terrorized the countryside; his men had destroyed all sources of food and forage and had left behind a hungry and demoralized people. Although he did not level any towns, he did destroy buildings in places where there was resistance. His men had shown little sympathy for Millen, the site of Camp Lawton, where Union prisoners of war were held. Physical attacks on white civilians were few, although it is not known how enslaved women fared at the hands of the invaders. Often enslaved men posted guards outside the cabins of their female friends and relatives.
--
The point was never to murder civilians.

Sherman's March to the Sea - New Georgia Encyclopedia

The March to the Sea, the most destructive campaign against a civilian population during the Civil War (1861-65), began in Atlanta on November 15, 1864, and concluded in Savannah on December 21, 1864. Union general William T. Sherman abandoned his supply line and marched across Georgia to the...

www.georgiaencyclopedia.org

But I'm really done with this bullshit and false equivalency argument.

The only reason I came back to the thread was to ASK THE QUESTION:

What if the Russian threat to use nukes "because Nato threatens Russia" is in their view a threat to Russian imperial designs of recovering their lost empire, and the continued rule of Putin?

Because I think Nato and Ukrain's bottom like is for Russia to GTFO, and long term over five or more years, Russia doesn't have a chance. There's plenty of oil and plenty of fertilizer and farmland.

Sorry, if NATO cared about Ukraine they'd have had boots on the ground in early February. You folks got played. Biden and friends really believed sanctions would stop this, it didn't. Oh they pretend that isn't the case now, only because it failed so thoroughly. Soon Biden will be begging Xi to attack Taiwan to drag attention away from the utter NATO failure in Ukraine.

 

[B. Kidd]

Gabe Lackmann

You failed to mention the main point: Putin wants back the Russian part of Ukraine and to make the rest of Ukraine a neutral country. Biden will agree to this after he tries to establishe himself as a tough guy and convince the American people that it is their patriotic duty to lower their standard of living.

Today's American's will comply like obedient sheep pussie's!

 

[JoeBlow]

And you are a fucking derp. See, two can play that game, derp.

Except that my post made sense, you faggot.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

From some of the posts here, it looks like some of them are looking for any excuse to pat him on the back for it.

I wish I could say that was surprising.

The same people will tell you that Ukraine is just as bad as Russia, if not worse.

Which is really just a code for saying that they don't think what Russia is doing is bad at all.

 

[Esdraelon]

Maybe he's waiting for his crack troops to fight the "Nazis"....

When is Antifa deploying????

You mean "his troops ON crack"

 

[Esdraelon]

You don't destroy land and people you want to rule.

That's why we would always beat our own government.

You have more faith in the humanity of the Left than I do.