Zone1 Question for Christians.

Sending money to an obvious scam artist is a hell of a way to give to the lord. We are supposed to question religious leaders. God warned about false teachers.
Joseph Smith was one of the greatest scam artists in his time. The great irony of his scamming in the name of the Lord brought the Lord into the lives of many people and a new church to worship and serve (not scam) the Lord. True, the man doing the scamming is a liar and a thief--a sheep in wolf's clothing. Like previous televangelists who were great scam artists, the present ones will be found out.

Jimmy Bakker learned the hard way, "Do not store up treasure on earth..." and had deep regrets and heartache about preaching a prosperity gospel.

Who said we are supposed to question religious leaders? That may be the wrong focus. It is better to focus on God. Christ taught us not to do as religious leaders who are also hypocrites do, but to focus on God and His word, bringing this into living one's life.
 
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Joseph Smith was one of the greatest scam artists in his time. The great irony of his scamming in the name of the Lord brought the Lord into the lives of many people and a new church to worship and serve (not scam) the Lord. True, the man doing the scamming is a liar and a thief--a sheep in wolf's clothing. Like previous televangelists who were great scam artists, the present ones will be found out.

Jimmy Bakker learned the hard way, "Do not store up treasure on earth..." and had deep regrets and heartache about preaching a prosperity gospel.

Who said we are supposed to question religious leaders? That may be the wrong focus. It is better to focus on God. Christ taught us not to do as religious leaders who are also hypocrites do, but to focus on God and His word, bringing this into living one's life.
If the gospel they embrace is not the same as portrayed in the Bible, you can't really say they are serving the Christian God, can you? Of course not. They are serving another God that was Joseph Smith's version of what he claimed God to be. He gave them a false religion and removed the possibility of accepting true Christianity for an entire section of people. Are you one of those that claim it doesn't matter what you believe as long as you are sincere?
 
No one can deny that Christian leaders have taken a larger role in politics over the last several years. Whether that is a good or bad thing covers a wide range of subjects and is not what this thread is about. I just have one question that can be better answered by someone who at least has a working knowledge of the Bible

Prophets in the Bible are generally highly revered. For those that believe in the God of the Bible, receiving direct specific knowledge from God deserves respect. However, even back then, it was known that unscrupulous people might claim God told them something when he didn't. That's why anyone claiming to have a prophecy was held to a high and severe standard. Giving false prophecy that didn't actually occur was grounds for death. Falsely claiming authority of God's knowledge was not tolerated. Obviously, today, we don't kill false prophets, but is there anything in the Bible that says false prophecy should be taken lightly? If a prominent religious leader claims God told him something, and it doesn't happen as claimed, should he maintain his standing in the Christian community?
The simple answer is no. The more complex answer is...no.
 
The fact remains that today's Christianity is what we deal with. I just occasionally ask for clarification when today's practices don't seem to match what the Bible teaches.
When God brings judgement, He first disciplines His people.
 
The simple answer is no. The more complex answer is...no.
So, you don't have a problem with unethical charlatans falsely claiming the authority of God given knowledge for personal gain? We can just ignore all those warnings of false teachers?
 
So, you don't have a problem with unethical charlatans falsely claiming the authority of God given knowledge for personal gain? We can just ignore all those warnings of false teachers?
Why are you asking if YOU should ignore them? You're not a Christian. Sounds like you're just trying to stir things up.
 
Why are you asking if YOU should ignore them? You're not a Christian. Sounds like you're just trying to stir things up.
If you can't justify your beliefs, are they worth having?
 
What justification from a believer are you seeking as a non-believer? I know what I believe, and I don't hold with those making grandiose predictions that don't come true.
But do you just ignore it and go on, or do you hold them accountable? I can tell you what the bible says should be done.
 
If the gospel they embrace is not the same as portrayed in the Bible, you can't really say they are serving the Christian God, can you? Of course not. They are serving another God that was Joseph Smith's version of what he claimed God to be. He gave them a false religion and removed the possibility of accepting true Christianity for an entire section of people. Are you one of those that claim it doesn't matter what you believe as long as you are sincere?
The point missed is that God works to draw people to Himself despite scam artists. The scam artist is, of course, not working for God, he is working only for himself. The scam artist is a liar and a thief. The Lord is not and is greater than any scam artist.

There is only One God. All serve him, not anyone else's version. Belief based on reason matters and it matters a lot.
 
The point missed is that God works to draw people to Himself despite scam artists. The scam artist is, of course, not working for God, he is working only for himself. The scam artist is a liar and a thief. The Lord is not and is greater than any scam artist.

There is only One God. All serve him, not anyone else's version. Belief based on reason matters and it matters a lot.
Got it. Doesn't matter what a preacher might be saying. God condones it. Does that apply to Muslims too?
 
Got it. Doesn't matter what a preacher might be saying. God condones it. Does that apply to Muslims too?
No, you don't "Got it." Not yet. God does not condone it. Nor does He let it stand in His way. In living my life in Christ, I don't have time to go investigating every televangelist who thinks he knows who is going to win an election, so I don't allow it to stand in my way, either. Perhaps that's why God chooses atheists to do this? (I don't know.)

What you may not know is that when any of the faithful--priests, ministers, laity--are in the news due to their misbehavior, the rest of faithful is mourning as we go about our own work. We will be going about our own work with mud being thrown at us, and some will be crucified (metaphorically speaking) if they happen to be in close association with those doing wrong.
 
But do you just ignore it and go on, or do you hold them accountable? I can tell you what the bible says should be done.
If they're not in my congregation, there is little I can do to hold them accountable. Why do you care? You're not even a Christian. Like I said, you just want to stir things up.
 
No one can deny that Christian leaders have taken a larger role in politics over the last several years. Whether that is a good or bad thing covers a wide range of subjects and is not what this thread is about. I just have one question that can be better answered by someone who at least has a working knowledge of the Bible

Prophets in the Bible are generally highly revered. For those that believe in the God of the Bible, receiving direct specific knowledge from God deserves respect. However, even back then, it was known that unscrupulous people might claim God told them something when he didn't. That's why anyone claiming to have a prophecy was held to a high and severe standard. Giving false prophecy that didn't actually occur was grounds for death. Falsely claiming authority of God's knowledge was not tolerated. Obviously, today, we don't kill false prophets, but is there anything in the Bible that says false prophecy should be taken lightly? If a prominent religious leader claims God told him something, and it doesn't happen as claimed, should he maintain his standing in the Christian community?

Christians have taken a larger role?

The government of our country was 100% Christian throughout the entire 18th and 19th centuries.

The historical illiteracy of the left never fails to amaze me (and embarrass you).
 
I won' bother looking it up, but a wide range of TV preachers claim God told them that trump will win the election.
First I don't know of any preachers who claim God told them who will win the 2024 election. So I sort of question the premise of the OP in the first place if that is actually the question you're asking of Christians.

Secondly I do know that it was widely claimed that numerous pastors said Trump would win a second term in 2020. But if that was indeed prophecy, they wouldn't be the first to make a prophesy about something but not fully understand God's time line. The earliest writers of the New Testament, including the Apostle Paul, assumed Jesus would return quickly, within their lifetime. It was the later writers who concluded that God's timeline for that was most likely misunderstood and the believers should plan to dig in for the longer haul.

If Trump wins tomorrow or whenever the vote count is concluded, then those preachers who predicted a second term will have more credibility in what they believe God told them. If not, then they will know they got it wrong.
 
Christian leaders have always been active in American politics, especially in the beginning. Clergy even volunteered to fight in the Revolutionary War.

As for the prophets in the Bible, they were all ethnic Israelites. Christians are not ethnic Israelites. They are not prophets. The Law and the Prophets ended in a blazing fire a few short decades after Pentecost and the death of the last Old Covenant prophet, John the Baptist. Any prophecy uttered in the subsequent new age—after the burning down of the temple—should bring shame to the fool uttering it (Zec 13:2-5).

And yes, Christians who try to "predict" the future just make themselves look like fools. But when they're wrong, they just continue on as if it were nothing and perhaps offer up some lame apology for their failure. When they're right, which is about as often as a broken clock is right, they gladly relish the accolades.
 
First I don't know of any preachers who claim God told them who will win the 2024 election. So I sort of question the premise of the OP in the first place if that is actually the question you're asking of Christians.

Secondly I do know that it was widely claimed that numerous pastors said Trump would win a second term in 2020. But if that was indeed prophecy, they wouldn't be the first to make a prophesy about something but not fully understand God's time line. The earliest writers of the New Testament, including the Apostle Paul, assumed Jesus would return quickly, within their lifetime. It was the later writers who concluded that God's timeline for that was most likely misunderstood and the believers should plan to dig in for the longer haul.

If Trump wins tomorrow or whenever the vote count is concluded, then those preachers who predicted a second term will have more credibility in what they believe God told them. If not, then they will know they got it wrong.
So you think God is going to communicate directly with a mortal about some event that is going to affect everybody but be so arbitrary as to be misunderstood? Don't be silly. If God wants someone to know something, there won't be any misunderstanding. That's just goofy.
 
So you think God is going to communicate directly with a mortal about some event that is going to affect everybody but be so arbitrary as to be misunderstood? Don't be silly. If God wants someone to know something, there won't be any misunderstanding. That's just goofy.
Not as goofy as those who think God doesn't communicate with people or that they are smart enough to know when or how God will communicate. I learned a long time ago that God is God and I am not given any power whatsoever to either understand or define Him. He gets to decide how, when, why, where He does anything. I don't.
 
Not as goofy as those who think God doesn't communicate with people or that they are smart enough to know when or how God will communicate. I learned a long time ago that God is God and I am not given any power whatsoever to either understand or define Him. He gets to decide how, when, why, where He does anything. I don't.
Are you sure a God who can't make himself clear to one person he is speaking to is worthy of being worshipped? I set the bar for Godship a little higher than that.
 
Are you sure a God who can't make himself clear to one person he is speaking to is worthy of being worshipped?
Maybe you haven't been listening for him. Maybe you don't understand worship. Life isn't fair. Expect to make sacrifices. He did.
 

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