Zone1 Questioning the Book of Mormon

[Carl in Michigan]

So you're telling us Jesus is the Father. Son's don't exist without a Father. So is Jesus the Father?

He wasn't the "son" before being born in the flesh

 

[tyroneweaver]

He wasn't the "son" before being born in the flesh

Is Jesus the Father , seams like a simple question Jesus is not the Father. But to you it seams He is

 

[boevans]

And most hard core evangelicals that Ive met are whack jobs

So nothing is right in Mormonism or evangelicalism.

 

[boevans]

I think the BoMi is the best religious social fiction in American history.

I read at least a book a week.

1. First Book of Nephi
2. Second Book of Nephi
3. Book of Jacob
4. Book of Enos
5. Book of Jarom
6. Book of Omni
7. Words of Mormon
8. Book of Mosiah
9. Book of Alma
10. Book of Helaman
11. Third Nephi
12. Fourth Nephi
13. Book of Mormon
14. Book of Ether
15. Book of Moroni

 

[Cougarbear]

No, Jesus is eternal, three in one with God and the Holy Spirit.

God DID create Jesus in human form though

Well actually, Mary co-created Jesus. And, to be specific, Jesus body was organized from Heavenly Father's sperm and Mary's egg. The Holy Ghost came over Mary and performed the in vitro fertilization. No mystery or magic necessary.
So, Jesus Spirit body, Jehovah, was also created by Father and Mother in Heaven as was you and I. Our spirit bodies were created offspring of glorified resurrected beings, Father and Mother in Heaven. However, our intelligence has always existed in the form of energy. So was Jesus intelligence too. His intelligence was greatest of all in the universe organized by Heavenly Father and Mother. His intelligence was placed in Jehovah's spirit body which is of finer materials than what we have on earth. So were all of ours including Michael, the Arc Angel. Jehovah and Michael were asked to organize the universe so that earth could be prepared for Father's Plan of Salvation for many of His spirit children in heaven. Jehovah, the first spirit born and most intelligent became a member of the Godhead with Elohim, our Father in Heaven.

 

[Cougarbear]

I think the BoMi is the best religious social fiction in American history.

I read at least a book a week.

1. First Book of Nephi
2. Second Book of Nephi
3. Book of Jacob
4. Book of Enos
5. Book of Jarom
6. Book of Omni
7. Words of Mormon
8. Book of Mosiah
9. Book of Alma
10. Book of Helaman
11. Third Nephi
12. Fourth Nephi
13. Book of Mormon
14. Book of Ether
15. Book of Moroni

Pray about it as Moroni askes you to. James asked you to pray about the things you want to know are true in the same way. Do it without a double mind. It is apparent that you read the books with a double mind. You had already decided before reading the Book of Mormon that it was fiction. Now, read it again and pray every time you read to know if it is true and not fiction. Then, I will respond.

 

[Cougarbear]

I have said many times that most Mormons are decent, hardworking people. My problem is not with them generally, but with their devotion to Joseph Smith, who was either a psychopath, deranged, or both.

Again. He peered into a hat and looked at magic rocks and came up with this. That's...just the story of Mormonism.

 

[boevans]

Pray about it as Moroni askes you to. James asked you to pray about the things you want to know are true in the same way. Do it without a double mind. It is apparent that you read the books with a double mind. You had already decided before reading the Book of Mormon that it was fiction. Now, read it again and pray every time you read to know if it is true and not fiction. Then, I will respond.

Yes, it is the making of an ingenuous human mind, a fiction. Just marvelous.

 

[onefour1]

Yes, it is the making of an ingenuous human mind, a fiction. Just marvelous.

Do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Savior of the World?

 

[ding]

suffer from circular reasoning much

How so?

 

[ding]

So you don't believe God created Jesus

No. That's a belief of the LDS I believe. They think they can become gods.

 

[ding]

So the God Jesus worshipped isn't eternal

Here's what Christians believe.

An Ancient Profession of Faith in the Trinity

From the "Athanasian" Creed

(An approved creed, used in the Church's liturgy, formerly attributed to St. Athanasius.)

Now the catholic faith is that we worship One God in Trinity and Trinity in Unity, neither confounding the Persons nor dividing the substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, another of the Holy Spirit. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, is One, the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal.

Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit; the Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated; the Father infinite, the Son infinite, and the Holy Spirit infinite; the Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal. And yet not three eternals but one eternal, as also not three infinites, nor three uncreated, but one uncreated, and one infinite. So, likewise, the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty; and yet not three almighties but one almighty.

So the Father is God, the Son God, and the Holy Spirit God; and yet not three Gods but one God. So the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord; and yet not three Lords but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by Christian truth to acknowledge every Person by Himself to be both God and Lord; so are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say, there be three Gods or three Lords.

The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone, not made nor created but begotten. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and the Son, not made nor created nor begotten but proceeding. So there is one Father not three Fathers, one Son not three Sons, and Holy Spirit not three Holy Spirits. And in this Trinity there is nothing before or after, nothing greater or less, but the whole three Persons are coeternal together and coequal.

So that in all things, as is aforesaid, the Trinity in Unity and the Unity in Trinity is to be worshipped. He therefore who wills to be in a state of salvation, let him think thus of the Trinity.

 

[boevans]

Do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Savior of the World?

I don't believe in Jesus as the Sacrifice for the world, but I do as the most marvelous example of how we are to treat one another.

I am not any sort of Christian, perhaps partially an animist. I do believe do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Do that, and you will find the road home. We are all walking the same road.

 

[tyroneweaver]

Here's what Christians believe.

An Ancient Profession of Faith in the Trinity

From the "Athanasian" Creed

(An approved creed, used in the Church's liturgy, formerly attributed to St. Athanasius.)

Now the catholic faith is that we worship One God in Trinity and Trinity in Unity, neither confounding the Persons nor dividing the substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, another of the Holy Spirit. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, is One, the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal.

Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit; the Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated; the Father infinite, the Son infinite, and the Holy Spirit infinite; the Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal. And yet not three eternals but one eternal, as also not three infinites, nor three uncreated, but one uncreated, and one infinite. So, likewise, the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty; and yet not three almighties but one almighty.

So the Father is God, the Son God, and the Holy Spirit God; and yet not three Gods but one God. So the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord; and yet not three Lords but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by Christian truth to acknowledge every Person by Himself to be both God and Lord; so are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say, there be three Gods or three Lords.

The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone, not made nor created but begotten. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and the Son, not made nor created nor begotten but proceeding. So there is one Father not three Fathers, one Son not three Sons, and Holy Spirit not three Holy Spirits. And in this Trinity there is nothing before or after, nothing greater or less, but the whole three Persons are coeternal together and coequal.

So that in all things, as is aforesaid, the Trinity in Unity and the Unity in Trinity is to be worshipped. He therefore who wills to be in a state of salvation, let him think thus of the Trinity.

it would be hard to find a piece of work that had as many contradictions and mythography as that piece of work, Four hundred years after the death of christ

 

[tyroneweaver]

No. That's a belief of the LDS I believe. They think they can become gods.

And you believe Christ created satan, which we sure as hell don't believe

 

[SweetSue92]

I don't believe in Jesus as the Sacrifice for the world, but I do as the most marvelous example of how we are to treat one another.

I am not any sort of Christian, perhaps partially an animist. I do believe do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Do that, and you will find the road home. We are all walking the same road.

View attachment 1056096

"How to treat one another" is important. But it has nothing to do with the Holiness of God. We can't come close to that without the sacrifice of Jesus.

 

[boevans]

"How to treat one another" is important. But it has nothing to do with the Holiness of God. We can't come close to that without the sacrifice of Jesus.

Your belief, while sincere, is sincerely wrong.

 

[lafayette]

Let's close this thread.

 

[ding]

it would be hard to find a piece of work that had as many contradictions and mythography as that piece of work, Four hundred years after the death of christ

And yet the LDS somehow managed to pull off that feat. But to your point, no, the foundation was the tradition and beliefs of early Christians.

 

[ding]

And you believe Christ created satan, which we sure as hell don't believe

No. Christ did not defeat satan. Christ defeated death. Death is not satan. Death is death.

But why don't you believe that? You guys believe every other crazy thing like you will become a god with your own little universe and your own little people to rule.