Tesla Powerwall in Australia: Electricity bill dives from $660 to $50

[elektra]

The stated price for a 10 kw/hr Tesla battery for the US is $3500. Why it costs that much in Australia, I don't know. And you can put up to 9 of the batteries together to give one 90 kw/hr storage. With a 5 kw to 10 kw solar array, this is enough to power a home independent of the grid. And, as with everything else associated with home power, the prices will come down significantly as there are other companies developing home power systems as we post.

I quoted the source in this thread, so you are a fucking liar, Old Crock. But that is the classic Liberal Democrat two step, when caught in one lie, start another lie. You could never power a home with Tesla batteries, one they are not designed to power homes and thus you will void the warranty. Two, it would be very unsafe, most likely you will burn down your house. They have problems powering cell phones with rechargeable batteries, now Old Crock makes the ridiculous claim that a Tesla Battery can power a house. Telsa does not even go that far!

 

[elektra]

Funny thing is, there is no guarantee that the Tesla Powerwall will last 6-7 years. There is an implied guarantee that lithium batteries do degrade significantly over time. Every 6-7 years at the least, you will scrap this battery. More if you use it more, like to power your home.

Once again, you pull numbers out of your ass, and they stink.

read:Tesla's Powerwall by the Numbers > ENGINEERING.com

If a person spent $3500 on the Powerwall and another $1500 on the inverter, it would take ten years (simple payback) for the unit to pay for itself. Since it has a 10 year warranty (and so do most inverters), it’s a break even situation at best.

The numbers are in the link Matthew gave, the only thing in anyone's ass, is Old Crock's head up his ass, how you get it by your hemorrhoids is something none of want to know.

 

[Old Rocks]

Tesla Powerwall in Australia: Electricity bill dives from $660 to $50

Quote

WHEN self-confessed nerd Nick Pfitzner became the first Australia resident to have a Tesla Powerwall installed, he expected to save some money when his electricity bill arrived.
However, he was shocked to discover just how efficient the highly anticipated home battery power storage unit had been.
After receiving his latest electricity bill in the post, Mr Pfitzner was pleased to see the amount to be paid was a mere $50.39 (Incl. GST).
Compare this to his previous bill for the same quarter last year and Mr Pfitzner was facing a bill totalling $660.77 (Incl. GST), which means his family had a saving more than 90 per cent.
“It’s an awesome feeling to see we are only paying an average of just $0.59 per day for our power usage,” he told news.com.au.
“I knew it would save me money, but I had never expected to see a saving that big.”
Each Powerwall has a 7 kWh energy storage capacity and works by using a solar panel to convert sunlight into electricity that charges the device.
“The inverter converts direct current electricity from solar panels, the grid and Powerwall into the alternating current used by your home’s lights, appliances and devices,” the website states.

It is nice to see Telsa fucking big corporate energy in the ass!

Math doesn't work out. If that's a MONTHLY bill, at 7KWhr of storage, that $3.5 a day or $105 a month even if the electricity he had to buy at night was priced at $0.50/KWhr.. This is not believable at all.

At $0.25/KWhr -- in the US -- that toxic battery box would take 14000 KWhr or 1400 nights to "pay" for itself. IF you're solar installation is sized at about 2.5 times what you need during the day. !!!!!

Problem with Greenies is that they lie and suck at math..

And you would prefer lead acid storage batteries? No, it is not a toxic box, no more than the many batteries I have for the devices I own are toxic cylinders. Don't know why you are parroting the "Conservative" line, but that line sucks, and has no truth.

 

[Old Rocks]

The stated price for a 10 kw/hr Tesla battery for the US is $3500. Why it costs that much in Australia, I don't know. And you can put up to 9 of the batteries together to give one 90 kw/hr storage. With a 5 kw to 10 kw solar array, this is enough to power a home independent of the grid. And, as with everything else associated with home power, the prices will come down significantly as there are other companies developing home power systems as we post.

I quoted the source in this thread, so you are a fucking liar, Old Crock. But that is the classic Liberal Democrat two step, when caught in one lie, start another lie. You could never power a home with Tesla batteries, one they are not designed to power homes and thus you will void the warranty. Two, it would be very unsafe, most likely you will burn down your house. They have problems powering cell phones with rechargeable batteries, now Old Crock makes the ridiculous claim that a Tesla Battery can power a house. Telsa does not even go that far!

read:Tesla's Powerwall by the Numbers > ENGINEERING.com

Batteries Included; Inverter Not
The first thing to note is that the Powerwall does not include an inverter - it’s just the battery bank, charge controller, and a liquid thermal control system that allows the unit to withstand temperatures from -20C (-4F) to 43C (110F). Tesla says that the device is compatible with “a growing list of inverters” without specifying which brands or models. The Powerwall can deliver 2 kW of continuous power and 3.3 kW of peak power. An inverter capable of handling that costs around $1500, give or take a few hundred. That brings the price tag up to $5000, not including installation. (It must be installed by a qualified electrician.) Powerwalls can be combined to create up to 90 kWh of storage - enough to meet the needs of virtually any residential customer.



Efficiency and Effective Storage
The storage system has a round-trip DC-DC efficiency of 92%. Factor in the typical efficiency of a good inverter, around 95%, and we’re looking at a total round-trip efficiency of 87%. That 10 kWh battery, for all practical purposes, provides 8.7 kWh of AC electricity.


Can You Power Your House with It?
The Powerwall provides three services to residential users who are on the grid: load shifting, photovoltaic (PV) storage, and backup power.


Load Shifting
In this application the battery charges during non-peak hours when the rates are low, and provides power during peak hours when rates are high. For customers enrolled in time-of-day (ToD) pricing plans, this can be a significant cost saver.


Let’s do the math on that using actual ToD numbers from a US power company and assuming the battery is delivering power during the entire stretch of peak hours.

So a for real engineer, one with a Phd in the field, says it can power a house, but you state that it cannot. LOL Oh my, who is one going to believe?

 

[elektra]

The stated price for a 10 kw/hr Tesla battery for the US is $3500. Why it costs that much in Australia, I don't know. And you can put up to 9 of the batteries together to give one 90 kw/hr storage. With a 5 kw to 10 kw solar array, this is enough to power a home independent of the grid. And, as with everything else associated with home power, the prices will come down significantly as there are other companies developing home power systems as we post.

I quoted the source in this thread, so you are a fucking liar, Old Crock. But that is the classic Liberal Democrat two step, when caught in one lie, start another lie. You could never power a home with Tesla batteries, one they are not designed to power homes and thus you will void the warranty. Two, it would be very unsafe, most likely you will burn down your house. They have problems powering cell phones with rechargeable batteries, now Old Crock makes the ridiculous claim that a Tesla Battery can power a house. Telsa does not even go that far!

read:Tesla's Powerwall by the Numbers > ENGINEERING.com

Batteries Included; Inverter Not
The first thing to note is that the Powerwall does not include an inverter - it’s just the battery bank, charge controller, and a liquid thermal control system that allows the unit to withstand temperatures from -20C (-4F) to 43C (110F). Tesla says that the device is compatible with “a growing list of inverters” without specifying which brands or models. The Powerwall can deliver 2 kW of continuous power and 3.3 kW of peak power. An inverter capable of handling that costs around $1500, give or take a few hundred. That brings the price tag up to $5000, not including installation. (It must be installed by a qualified electrician.) Powerwalls can be combined to create up to 90 kWh of storage - enough to meet the needs of virtually any residential customer.



Efficiency and Effective Storage
The storage system has a round-trip DC-DC efficiency of 92%. Factor in the typical efficiency of a good inverter, around 95%, and we’re looking at a total round-trip efficiency of 87%. That 10 kWh battery, for all practical purposes, provides 8.7 kWh of AC electricity.


Can You Power Your House with It?
The Powerwall provides three services to residential users who are on the grid: load shifting, photovoltaic (PV) storage, and backup power.


Load Shifting
In this application the battery charges during non-peak hours when the rates are low, and provides power during peak hours when rates are high. For customers enrolled in time-of-day (ToD) pricing plans, this can be a significant cost saver.


Let’s do the math on that using actual ToD numbers from a US power company and assuming the battery is delivering power during the entire stretch of peak hours.

So a for real engineer, one with a Phd in the field, says it can power a house, but you state that it cannot. LOL Oh my, who is one going to believe?

Are you about done, huffing and puffing Old Crock, we would not want a guy of your age to have a heart attack on his computer keyboard. You have supported this thread and Matthew, you have argued with those who have disagreed with this thread. Now I have used Matthew's source, which you agree with, for my source of the cost, and you somehow think I am wrong but the thread and source you have been arguing in favor of is right? You can't have it both ways dumb ass!

Once again for the Old Man, Old Crock, from the link given by matthew.
What this bill shows us about Tesla’s Powerwall

When installation of the $13,950 Tesla Powerwall was announced, many questioned if the savings would be worth the initial investment.

 

[Lewdog]

What kind of price can you put on saving the world's environment? Even if it was a wash, you get two distinct benefits, first you are helping the environment, and secondly you are no longer grid dependent and have to worry if someone knocks down an electric pole that your electricity will be out for a couple of days.

 

[Old Rocks]

The stated price for a 10 kw/hr Tesla battery for the US is $3500. Why it costs that much in Australia, I don't know. And you can put up to 9 of the batteries together to give one 90 kw/hr storage. With a 5 kw to 10 kw solar array, this is enough to power a home independent of the grid. And, as with everything else associated with home power, the prices will come down significantly as there are other companies developing home power systems as we post.

I quoted the source in this thread, so you are a fucking liar, Old Crock. But that is the classic Liberal Democrat two step, when caught in one lie, start another lie. You could never power a home with Tesla batteries, one they are not designed to power homes and thus you will void the warranty. Two, it would be very unsafe, most likely you will burn down your house. They have problems powering cell phones with rechargeable batteries, now Old Crock makes the ridiculous claim that a Tesla Battery can power a house. Telsa does not even go that far!

read:Tesla's Powerwall by the Numbers > ENGINEERING.com

Batteries Included; Inverter Not
The first thing to note is that the Powerwall does not include an inverter - it’s just the battery bank, charge controller, and a liquid thermal control system that allows the unit to withstand temperatures from -20C (-4F) to 43C (110F). Tesla says that the device is compatible with “a growing list of inverters” without specifying which brands or models. The Powerwall can deliver 2 kW of continuous power and 3.3 kW of peak power. An inverter capable of handling that costs around $1500, give or take a few hundred. That brings the price tag up to $5000, not including installation. (It must be installed by a qualified electrician.) Powerwalls can be combined to create up to 90 kWh of storage - enough to meet the needs of virtually any residential customer.



Efficiency and Effective Storage
The storage system has a round-trip DC-DC efficiency of 92%. Factor in the typical efficiency of a good inverter, around 95%, and we’re looking at a total round-trip efficiency of 87%. That 10 kWh battery, for all practical purposes, provides 8.7 kWh of AC electricity.


Can You Power Your House with It?
The Powerwall provides three services to residential users who are on the grid: load shifting, photovoltaic (PV) storage, and backup power.


Load Shifting
In this application the battery charges during non-peak hours when the rates are low, and provides power during peak hours when rates are high. For customers enrolled in time-of-day (ToD) pricing plans, this can be a significant cost saver.


Let’s do the math on that using actual ToD numbers from a US power company and assuming the battery is delivering power during the entire stretch of peak hours.

So a for real engineer, one with a Phd in the field, says it can power a house, but you state that it cannot. LOL Oh my, who is one going to believe?

Are you about done, huffing and puffing Old Crock, we would not want a guy of your age to have a heart attack on his computer keyboard. You have supported this thread and Matthew, you have argued with those who have disagreed with this thread. Now I have used Matthew's source, which you agree with, for my source of the cost, and you somehow think I am wrong but the thread and source you have been arguing in favor of is right? You can't have it both ways dumb ass!

Once again for the Old Man, Old Crock, from the link given by matthew.
What this bill shows us about Tesla’s Powerwall

When installation of the $13,950 Tesla Powerwall was announced, many questioned if the savings would be worth the initial investment.

And you continue to be a lying dumb fuck. That price is for Australia. The price that a US citizen in the US would have to pay is $3500, according to this;

read:Tesla's Powerwall by the Numbers > ENGINEERING.com

The 7-kWh model costs $3,000, while the 10-kWh version is $3,500. Both come with a 10-year warranty, according to Tesla, although details of the warranty have yet to be spelled out. If purchased with a photovoltaic (PV) system and recharged primarily through the PV array, Powerwall could be eligible for the 30 percent solar investment tax credit, the BTS report notes.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

How big is his solar panel? And what is the overall cost of his storage bank?

Jimmy Carter was pushing solar energy. He put panels on the roof of the White House and Reagan removed them. If Carter's plan had been carried through I wonder where it would have gone by now.

Those panels were incredibly inefficient compared to those produced today. What if the government stopped giving money to companies like Solyndra, that was over $500 billion by the way, and gave it to scientist to actually advance the research to improve the technology. So.ar can provide a large amount of energy for the world, but the government needs to approach it likesendi g a man to the moon and stop tying to support companies, instead support research and development.

 

[Old Rocks]

How big is his solar panel? And what is the overall cost of his storage bank?

Jimmy Carter was pushing solar energy. He put panels on the roof of the White House and Reagan removed them. If Carter's plan had been carried through I wonder where it would have gone by now.

Those panels were incredibly inefficient compared to those produced today. What if the government stopped giving money to companies like Solyndra, that was over $500 billion by the way, and gave it to scientist to actually advance the research to improve the technology. So.ar can provide a large amount of energy for the world, but the government needs to approach it likesendi g a man to the moon and stop tying to support companies, instead support research and development.

Your claim is about three orders of magnitude too high.

Solyndra - Wikipedia

Solyndra received a $535 million U.S. Energy Department loan guarantee, the first recipient of a loan guarantee under President Barack Obama's economic stimulus program, the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009.[22] By 2014 the loan program had wiped out its losses, including a $528 million loss from Solyndra, and was operating in the black.[23] Additionally, Solyndra received a $25.1 million tax break from California's Alternative Energy and Advanced Transportation Financing Authority.[24]

Following the bankruptcy, the government was expected to recoup $27 million under the Solyndra restructuring plan, or up to 100% of loaned funds from a $1.5 billion lawsuit filed against Chinese solar-panel makers for alleged price fixing.[2] The outcome of the lawsuits were that: In November 2015 Yingli Green Energy Holding Co Ltd. settled a claim filed by Solyndra for $7.5 million; in April 2016 Trina Solar Ltd. settled a claim filed by Solyndra for $45 million; as of April 2016, Solyndra's suit against Suntech Power Holdings Co Ltd. has not yet settled.[25]

 

[Lewdog]

Ok let me add a couple things too. In the U.S. there is also a tax credit people can get when they install solar energy in their homes, which can help offset the price of the system.

Solar Investment Tax Credit (ITC)

Not to mention, some home owners with solar panel systems not just get reduced electric bills, but some actually produce enough electricity they get a check from the electric companies.

Zero energy homeowners in Issaquah get checks, not bills, from electric company

 

[BuckToothMoron]

Tesla Powerwall in Australia: Electricity bill dives from $660 to $50

Quote

WHEN self-confessed nerd Nick Pfitzner became the first Australia resident to have a Tesla Powerwall installed, he expected to save some money when his electricity bill arrived.
However, he was shocked to discover just how efficient the highly anticipated home battery power storage unit had been.
After receiving his latest electricity bill in the post, Mr Pfitzner was pleased to see the amount to be paid was a mere $50.39 (Incl. GST).
Compare this to his previous bill for the same quarter last year and Mr Pfitzner was facing a bill totalling $660.77 (Incl. GST), which means his family had a saving more than 90 per cent.
“It’s an awesome feeling to see we are only paying an average of just $0.59 per day for our power usage,” he told news.com.au.
“I knew it would save me money, but I had never expected to see a saving that big.”
Each Powerwall has a 7 kWh energy storage capacity and works by using a solar panel to convert sunlight into electricity that charges the device.
“The inverter converts direct current electricity from solar panels, the grid and Powerwall into the alternating current used by your home’s lights, appliances and devices,” the website states.

It is nice to see Telsa fucking big corporate energy in the ass!

I find it strange that the oil and coal companies could have been the ones leading the way to new clean renewables and would now be in the position to dominate the new emerging markets for this energy which will soon be the entire human race as prices continue to drop precipitously for renewable energy types, but they chose the 'we're lazy and don't want to do any more work than sucking stuff out of the ground and getting paid for it' path.

They are dinosaurs now and will fade into history, bitching and screaming the whole way no doubt but even they know their days are numbered.

Tesla just invented the steamboat and all the makers of sails are complaining about losing their jobs. Capitalism is a bitch for the slow and the dead, id'n it.

You might do some research on the subject of solar energy before declaring oil companies dinosaurs. The technology/pricing is a long way off from being on par with fossil fuels, and the only thing driving people to install panels here are the subsidies. Sorry fig newton, capitalism is a bitch, and solar can't compete right now.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

How big is his solar panel? And what is the overall cost of his storage bank?

Jimmy Carter was pushing solar energy. He put panels on the roof of the White House and Reagan removed them. If Carter's plan had been carried through I wonder where it would have gone by now.

Those panels were incredibly inefficient compared to those produced today. What if the government stopped giving money to companies like Solyndra, that was over $500 billion by the way, and gave it to scientist to actually advance the research to improve the technology. So.ar can provide a large amount of energy for the world, but the government needs to approach it likesendi g a man to the moon and stop tying to support companies, instead support research and development.

Your claim is about three orders of magnitude too high.

Solyndra - Wikipedia

Solyndra received a $535 million U.S. Energy Department loan guarantee, the first recipient of a loan guarantee under President Barack Obama's economic stimulus program, the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009.[22] By 2014 the loan program had wiped out its losses, including a $528 million loss from Solyndra, and was operating in the black.[23] Additionally, Solyndra received a $25.1 million tax break from California's Alternative Energy and Advanced Transportation Financing Authority.[24]

Following the bankruptcy, the government was expected to recoup $27 million under the Solyndra restructuring plan, or up to 100% of loaned funds from a $1.5 billion lawsuit filed against Chinese solar-panel makers for alleged price fixing.[2] The outcome of the lawsuits were that: In November 2015 Yingli Green Energy Holding Co Ltd. settled a claim filed by Solyndra for $7.5 million; in April 2016 Trina Solar Ltd. settled a claim filed by Solyndra for $45 million; as of April 2016, Solyndra's suit against Suntech Power Holdings Co Ltd. has not yet settled.[25]

Typo on my part, I meant millions, and that is not 3 0rders of magnitude, it's 1000. Guess we were both wrong

 

[BuckToothMoron]

What kind of price can you put on saving the world's environment? Even if it was a wash, you get two distinct benefits, first you are helping the environment, and secondly you are no longer grid dependent and have to worry if someone knocks down an electric pole that your electricity will be out for a couple of days.

There it is, the typical liberal response. Appeal to the emotion of saving the world. That appeal only works on the weak minded, and it isn't vein close to a wash.

 

[elektra]

What kind of price can you put on saving the world's environment? Even if it was a wash, you get two distinct benefits, first you are helping the environment, and secondly you are no longer grid dependent and have to worry if someone knocks down an electric pole that your electricity will be out for a couple of days.

That is a great question! You are not helping the environment buy building Solar Panels or Wind Turbines. How does building something save the environment? In this case, how does building millions and millions of things save the Environment? In the past, and today, one electrical power plant supplies power for 100,000's of homes. To replace that one plant, you must use Heavy Industry to process millions of tons of raw materials into a product, that is a million times bigger than that one tiny plant! You are using more stuff to produce much less, which pollutes the environment much more. It is like using 10 renewable cars to go the distant of one car. How is producing 10 instead of 1, help.

In the case of Solar Panels, how does producing a billion solar panels help?

And you can not power your home on Tesla Poweralls. They were designed to slowly charge your car overnight. They are not designed to have a 25 amp drain on them for a hour, or a 10 amp drain for two days.

 

[elektra]

Ok let me add a couple things too. In the U.S. there is also a tax credit people can get when they install solar energy in their homes, which can help offset the price of the system.

Solar Investment Tax Credit (ITC)

Not to mention, some home owners with solar panel systems not just get reduced electric bills, but some actually produce enough electricity they get a check from the electric companies.

Zero energy homeowners in Issaquah get checks, not bills, from electric company

Those are tax payer and rate payer subsidies, meaning you are forcing me to work for you. Why, because your solar panels do not work, so in order to sell them, the government gives you money, and makes me pay for it. That is Tyranny.

 

[elektra]

The stated price for a 10 kw/hr Tesla battery for the US is $3500. Why it costs that much in Australia, I don't know. And you can put up to 9 of the batteries together to give one 90 kw/hr storage. With a 5 kw to 10 kw solar array, this is enough to power a home independent of the grid. And, as with everything else associated with home power, the prices will come down significantly as there are other companies developing home power systems as we post.

I quoted the source in this thread, so you are a fucking liar, Old Crock. But that is the classic Liberal Democrat two step, when caught in one lie, start another lie. You could never power a home with Tesla batteries, one they are not designed to power homes and thus you will void the warranty. Two, it would be very unsafe, most likely you will burn down your house. They have problems powering cell phones with rechargeable batteries, now Old Crock makes the ridiculous claim that a Tesla Battery can power a house. Telsa does not even go that far!

read:Tesla's Powerwall by the Numbers > ENGINEERING.com

Batteries Included; Inverter Not
The first thing to note is that the Powerwall does not include an inverter - it’s just the battery bank, charge controller, and a liquid thermal control system that allows the unit to withstand temperatures from -20C (-4F) to 43C (110F). Tesla says that the device is compatible with “a growing list of inverters” without specifying which brands or models. The Powerwall can deliver 2 kW of continuous power and 3.3 kW of peak power. An inverter capable of handling that costs around $1500, give or take a few hundred. That brings the price tag up to $5000, not including installation. (It must be installed by a qualified electrician.) Powerwalls can be combined to create up to 90 kWh of storage - enough to meet the needs of virtually any residential customer.



Efficiency and Effective Storage
The storage system has a round-trip DC-DC efficiency of 92%. Factor in the typical efficiency of a good inverter, around 95%, and we’re looking at a total round-trip efficiency of 87%. That 10 kWh battery, for all practical purposes, provides 8.7 kWh of AC electricity.


Can You Power Your House with It?
The Powerwall provides three services to residential users who are on the grid: load shifting, photovoltaic (PV) storage, and backup power.


Load Shifting
In this application the battery charges during non-peak hours when the rates are low, and provides power during peak hours when rates are high. For customers enrolled in time-of-day (ToD) pricing plans, this can be a significant cost saver.


Let’s do the math on that using actual ToD numbers from a US power company and assuming the battery is delivering power during the entire stretch of peak hours.

So a for real engineer, one with a Phd in the field, says it can power a house, but you state that it cannot. LOL Oh my, who is one going to believe?

Are you about done, huffing and puffing Old Crock, we would not want a guy of your age to have a heart attack on his computer keyboard. You have supported this thread and Matthew, you have argued with those who have disagreed with this thread. Now I have used Matthew's source, which you agree with, for my source of the cost, and you somehow think I am wrong but the thread and source you have been arguing in favor of is right? You can't have it both ways dumb ass!

Once again for the Old Man, Old Crock, from the link given by matthew.
What this bill shows us about Tesla’s Powerwall

When installation of the $13,950 Tesla Powerwall was announced, many questioned if the savings would be worth the initial investment.

And you continue to be a lying dumb fuck. That price is for Australia. The price that a US citizen in the US would have to pay is $3500, according to this;

read:Tesla's Powerwall by the Numbers > ENGINEERING.com

The 7-kWh model costs $3,000, while the 10-kWh version is $3,500. Both come with a 10-year warranty, according to Tesla, although details of the warranty have yet to be spelled out. If purchased with a photovoltaic (PV) system and recharged primarily through the PV array, Powerwall could be eligible for the 30 percent solar investment tax credit, the BTS report notes.

Hey lying Old Crock, that is the price, according to this thread.

 

[Lewdog]

Ok let me add a couple things too. In the U.S. there is also a tax credit people can get when they install solar energy in their homes, which can help offset the price of the system.

Solar Investment Tax Credit (ITC)

Not to mention, some home owners with solar panel systems not just get reduced electric bills, but some actually produce enough electricity they get a check from the electric companies.

Zero energy homeowners in Issaquah get checks, not bills, from electric company

Those are tax payer and rate payer subsidies, meaning you are forcing me to work for you. Why, because your solar panels do not work, so in order to sell them, the government gives you money, and makes me pay for it. That is Tyranny.

Those tax deductions are for anyone that chooses to use them. You can also get tax deductions for putting in better insulation in your home, energy efficient windows, and other such home improvements. Get over yourself. You aren't paying for everyone else.

 

[elektra]

Those tax deductions are for anyone that chooses to use them. You can also get tax deductions for putting in better insulation in your home, energy efficient windows, and other such home improvements. Get over yourself. You aren't paying for everyone else.

Wrong, I pay for them, and it is not just a tax deduction you get, you get a subsidy. The solar companies get subsidies, the money you get from the utility is a subsidy, somebody pays for those subsidies. That someone is me.

 

[Lewdog]

Those tax deductions are for anyone that chooses to use them. You can also get tax deductions for putting in better insulation in your home, energy efficient windows, and other such home improvements. Get over yourself. You aren't paying for everyone else.

Wrong, I pay for them, and it is not just a tax deduction you get, you get a subsidy. The solar companies get subsidies, the money you get from the utility is a subsidy, somebody pays for those subsidies. That someone is me.

No, it's not you. Since when do you pay all the taxes? Maybe YOU should pay more taxes and help get down the national debt then. I never knew only one person paid all the taxes in the United States! WoW!

 

[elektra]

I find it strange that the oil and coal companies could have been the ones leading the way to new clean renewables and would now be in the position to dominate the new emerging markets for this energy which will soon be the entire human race as prices continue to drop precipitously for renewable energy types, but they chose the 'we're lazy and don't want to do any more work than sucking stuff out of the ground and getting paid for it' path.

They are dinosaurs now and will fade into history, bitching and screaming the whole way no doubt but even they know their days are numbered.

Tesla just invented the steamboat and all the makers of sails are complaining about losing their jobs. Capitalism is a bitch for the slow and the dead, id'n it.

Ha, ha, ha. Yes, Tesla "invented" the steamboat? Batteries did not exist before Tesla, if that is what you think you have zero understanding of this subject. Maybe Tesla made them bigger, that is hardly an advance in technology or a step into the future. Technically it is a step backwards.

Oil Companies are a dinosaur and they will fade into history? The days are numbered? That means Solar and Wind companies days are numbered are even more of a dinosaur. You can not make a Wind Turbine or one Solar panel without Oil or Coal, period. It is impossible.

The great technological advance of Liberal Democrats has been to simply build a lot more, and to make them bigger. Building more uses more oil, making them bigger uses more oil. Liberals and Democrats are destroying the World to save the World. Small minds thinking big? What a joke.