Thank God for our RIGHT to keep and bear arms

[Skull Pilot]

People saying 'guns don't kill people' is music to the ears of gun makers, just like 'cigarettes don't cause cancer' was music to the ears of the tobacco producers. Just as 'prescription opiates aren't to blame for addiciton, people addict themselves'.

When the lowest of lowlifes can get people to guy their crap even though it kills them and others and they make billions doing it they view this as heaven. When they can get the very people that are being killed by their product to defend their product, they are in pure white glowing bliss and satan bows before THEM.

No it's more like saying forks don't cause obesity. Or drinking glasses don't cause alcoholism

In the end it is always the person. Always.

 

[Wilbur Right]

The fact is that the vast and overwhelming majority of people who own guns legally will never even point a gun at another person never mind fire at or kill another

I love this convoluted logic.

The fact that the VAST majority or car drivers never drive drunk means there should be no laws against drunk driving.

The fact that the VAST majority of IV drug users never OD means we should have no drug laws.

After all. There are anti drug laws and anti drunk driving laws. But do those laws stop drunk drivers and drug users? Fuck no. So get rid of gun laws, drunk driving laws, drug laws etc. They serve no purpose. Most druggies and drunks are law abiding. Most of the time. And watch this country turn into paradise right before your eyes.

I know you'll agree skull.

 

[Skull Pilot]

The fact is that the vast and overwhelming majority of people who own guns legally will never even point a gun at another person never mind fire at or kill another

I love this convoluted logic.

The fact that the VAST majority or car drivers never drive drunk means there should be no laws against drunk driving.

The fact that the VAST majority of IV drug users never OD means we should have no drug laws.

After all. There are anti drug laws and anti drunk driving laws. But do those laws stop drunk drivers and drug users? Fuck no. So get rid of gun laws, drunk driving laws, drug laws etc. They serve no purpose. Most druggies and drunks are law abiding. Most of the time. And watch this country turn into paradise right before your eyes.

I know you'll agree skull.

We already have laws against illegally owning guns Idiot

So tell me how any law you want to enact will succeed where every law on the book has already failed to stop a minuscule percentage of people from using guns illegally

 

[frigidweirdo]

Oh please. We're not talking about all gun owners being guilty.

What we're talking about is guns in society and the impact guns, in the hands of humans, have on society.

You can wriggle and squirm all you like, but the impact is clearly there.

Since most guns are in the hands of people who will never kill anyone with them they have very little effect on society.

Not necessarily.

Firstly, guns being readily available has a big impact. Criminals get guns from bad deals, from stealing from law abiding people and so on. There are consequences to guns being so easily bought and obtained.

Gee criminals break the laws.

None of us knew that.

FYI all of us here who support the second are for draconian punishments for any gun crime

"Criminals break laws", well the law abiding break laws too.

Criminals don't break all the laws, they break some, and they've been caught.

This debate is getting off the track of taking about real life, and reverting back to people throwing right wing slogans at me. I'm not dealing with stupid slogans. If you want to talk about this topic like an intelligent adult, fine, otherwise, no.

No gun law already enacted has ever stopped anyone from committing a crime with a gun

So tell me how would any law you want to enact do what every other law has already failed to do?

And FYI IF a person is law abiding they do not break the law since as soon as they do break the law they are no longer law abiding

The fact is that the vast and overwhelming majority of people who own guns legally will never even point a gun at another person never mind fire at or kill another

So you want to base any law that will effect the rights of everyone on what a minuscule fractional percentage of what some people might do.

My answer to gun crimes: Life in prison without parole for any crime committed while in possession of a firearm.

You're partially right. Some gun laws might have prevented murders, who knows? We can see into other dimensions.

Most of what I will talk about when it comes to reducing crime is about education, changing society, giving opportunities and hope to people, making people's lives better, and in this manner you can probably reduce crime and murder.

At the same time, if the US were to go mostly gunless, then you could probably reduce murders at the very least, though I doubt that this would be possible. \

So, if I break a small law, I'm not law abiding? How many people do you think have never broken a law? Never gone too fast on the roads? Never J-walked? Never done anything like that?

There'd be a seriously lack of people in the "law abiding" section. You're probably a criminal.

Most people say a criminal is someone who has been convicted of a crime.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The fact is that the vast and overwhelming majority of people who own guns legally will never even point a gun at another person never mind fire at or kill another

I love this convoluted logic.

The fact that the VAST majority or car drivers never drive drunk means there should be no laws against drunk driving.

The fact that the VAST majority of IV drug users never OD means we should have no drug laws.

After all. There are anti drug laws and anti drunk driving laws. But do those laws stop drunk drivers and drug users? Fuck no. So get rid of gun laws, drunk driving laws, drug laws etc. They serve no purpose. Most druggies and drunks are law abiding. Most of the time. And watch this country turn into paradise right before your eyes.

I know you'll agree skull.

We already have laws against illegally owning guns Idiot

So tell me how any law you want to enact will succeed where every law on the book has already failed to stop a minuscule percentage of people from using guns illegally

What's "illegally owning gun Idiot"? And why are there laws against such people?

 

[2aguy]

The fact is that the vast and overwhelming majority of people who own guns legally will never even point a gun at another person never mind fire at or kill another

I love this convoluted logic.

The fact that the VAST majority or car drivers never drive drunk means there should be no laws against drunk driving.

The fact that the VAST majority of IV drug users never OD means we should have no drug laws.

After all. There are anti drug laws and anti drunk driving laws. But do those laws stop drunk drivers and drug users? Fuck no. So get rid of gun laws, drunk driving laws, drug laws etc. They serve no purpose. Most druggies and drunks are law abiding. Most of the time. And watch this country turn into paradise right before your eyes.

I know you'll agree skull.

Wow...this stupid argument....

Can you tell us who said we shouldn't have laws about criminal use of guns....?

We have laws that state you cannot use a gun to commit a crime...we support those laws. We have laws that state that convicted felons can be arrested if they are caught with a gun...we support that.

What we don't support.....gun laws that do nothing to stop criminals and mass shooters which simply create opportunities to punish normal gun owners to the point of going to jail, and losing the ability to hold a normal job, for clerical errors, and missed paperwork dates.

there are over 357,000,000 guns in the United STates. there were 8,124 gun murders in 2014. 90% of those using guns for murder were convicted felons using a gun illegally, in possession of the gun illegally......and 70-80% of the victims were also convicted felons participating in criminal activity or associating with other convicted felons when they were murdered....

So 356,991,876 million guns in private hands were not used to commit murder...actually more than that because of the 8,124 gun murders, many were multiple murders with the same gun.......

So we are not talking about the Vast Majority....we are talking about almost all guns were not used to commit murder

Wilbur, not one thing you believe about guns is true or factual....

Tell me wilbur...with the way you post...do you think only cops should be allowed to carry guns?

 

[2aguy]

Since most guns are in the hands of people who will never kill anyone with them they have very little effect on society.

Not necessarily.

Firstly, guns being readily available has a big impact. Criminals get guns from bad deals, from stealing from law abiding people and so on. There are consequences to guns being so easily bought and obtained.

Gee criminals break the laws.

None of us knew that.

FYI all of us here who support the second are for draconian punishments for any gun crime

"Criminals break laws", well the law abiding break laws too.

Criminals don't break all the laws, they break some, and they've been caught.

This debate is getting off the track of taking about real life, and reverting back to people throwing right wing slogans at me. I'm not dealing with stupid slogans. If you want to talk about this topic like an intelligent adult, fine, otherwise, no.

No gun law already enacted has ever stopped anyone from committing a crime with a gun

So tell me how would any law you want to enact do what every other law has already failed to do?

And FYI IF a person is law abiding they do not break the law since as soon as they do break the law they are no longer law abiding

The fact is that the vast and overwhelming majority of people who own guns legally will never even point a gun at another person never mind fire at or kill another

So you want to base any law that will effect the rights of everyone on what a minuscule fractional percentage of what some people might do.

My answer to gun crimes: Life in prison without parole for any crime committed while in possession of a firearm.

You're partially right. Some gun laws might have prevented murders, who knows? We can see into other dimensions.

Most of what I will talk about when it comes to reducing crime is about education, changing society, giving opportunities and hope to people, making people's lives better, and in this manner you can probably reduce crime and murder.

At the same time, if the US were to go mostly gunless, then you could probably reduce murders at the very least, though I doubt that this would be possible. \

So, if I break a small law, I'm not law abiding? How many people do you think have never broken a law? Never gone too fast on the roads? Never J-walked? Never done anything like that?

There'd be a seriously lack of people in the "law abiding" section. You're probably a criminal.

Most people say a criminal is someone who has been convicted of a crime.

At the same time, if the US were to go mostly gunless, then you could probably reduce murders at the very least, though I doubt that this would be possible. \

Wrong......our gun murder rate has nothing to do with access to guns.....Britain's gun crime rate stayed the same after they confiscated guns....and their murder rate in all categories is smaller than our non gun murder rate.....so it is their criminal culture, not guns, that defines their gun murder rate.

So, if I break a small law, I'm not law abiding? How many people do you think have never broken a law? Never gone too fast on the roads? Never J-walked? Never done anything like that?

Wrong...normal, law abiding gun owners do not use guns to commit crimes...they do not rape, rob or murder other people with their guns....what you guys are advocating for with all of your gun laws is to create a situation, where a normal gun owner, who does not commit a crime with a gun, becomes a criminal for making a mistake on unnecessary paperwork, or missing a deadline for submitting unnecessary paperwork......that is what your gun control laws for gun registration, licensing gun owners, magazine limits and universal background checks do.......all while not stopping actual criminals...criminals who use guns to rob, rape and murder other people, are not stopped.....

Please...be more accurate.

 

[2aguy]

The fact is that the vast and overwhelming majority of people who own guns legally will never even point a gun at another person never mind fire at or kill another

I love this convoluted logic.

The fact that the VAST majority or car drivers never drive drunk means there should be no laws against drunk driving.

The fact that the VAST majority of IV drug users never OD means we should have no drug laws.

After all. There are anti drug laws and anti drunk driving laws. But do those laws stop drunk drivers and drug users? Fuck no. So get rid of gun laws, drunk driving laws, drug laws etc. They serve no purpose. Most druggies and drunks are law abiding. Most of the time. And watch this country turn into paradise right before your eyes.

I know you'll agree skull.

We already have laws against illegally owning guns Idiot

So tell me how any law you want to enact will succeed where every law on the book has already failed to stop a minuscule percentage of people from using guns illegally

What's "illegally owning gun Idiot"? And why are there laws against such people?

Felons cannot legally own a gun. They have committed a crime which means they can't be trusted with a gun......normal, law abiding people....don't use their guns to rape, rob or murder people.....yet you want to create paperwork requirements that will put those people in danger of being a criminal for clerical errors and missed paperwork submission dates...........and if they break those arbitrary and pointless laws....you want to destroy their lives...by putting them in jail, making them felons, and hence unemployable, and take their money and their guns.........

 

[2aguy]

Gun control in Europe, Australia, and Japan does not stop their actual criminals from getting guns....

 

[Wilbur Right]

Tell me wilbur...with the way you post...do you think only cops should be allowed to carry guns?

No you dumb fuck. Everyone should be able to own a gun. Including felons. You think felons don't have a need to defend themselves?

You think domestic abusers don't need to defend themselves?

Everybody in this great country needs a gun to defend themselves.

No matter what. No gun laws..no drunk driving laws, no.drug laws.

What business is it of your if a.person drives drunk? Does drugs? Has a gun?

It isn't any of your business..right?
Then why are there laws?

 

[Wilbur Right]

Wrong......our gun murder rate has nothing to do with access to guns..

LMAO

Then what do gun murders have to do with? Knives?
So many people being shot with knives. Funny shit.

 

[Wilbur Right]

2nd, you dumb shit. You NEED cons to have guns. Matter of fact you need all.criminals.to have guns.

How the fuck else you gonna scare some dude into buying a gun he don't need?

Fear translates into more sales.
The NRA know this. Why don't you?

 

[2aguy]

2nd, you dumb shit. You NEED cons to have guns. Matter of fact you need all.criminals.to have guns.

How the fuck else you gonna scare some dude into buying a gun he don't need?

Fear translates into more sales.
The NRA know this. Why don't you?

So....yes or no....should only the cops have guns...? Please answer like a sane human being......

 

[2aguy]

Wrong......our gun murder rate has nothing to do with access to guns..

LMAO

Then what do gun murders have to do with? Knives?
So many people being shot with knives. Funny shit.

Criminals in Britain, Continental Europe, Japan, and Australia all get guns when they want or need them....and their gun murder rate is lower than ours......in fact, Britain confiscated their guns, and their gun crime rate did not change....in fact, it initially spiked, and then returned to the same level it was at before the confiscation....so Britain shows that taking guns away from people who do not use them for crime, does not effect the gun crime rate....

In Fact...the gun crime rate in Britain went up 4% ....and the violent crime rate in Britain went up 27%

 

[Rustic]

Rural areas have many, many more guns than people and less crime...

They do. However, as I've said in other areas, there are a lot more factors than just people with guns.

However in the UK there are rural areas too, and in all the other countries.

Cities are the main problem. But cities have guns too.

Cities are controlled by progressives and have the strictest "gun" control laws...

Listen, if you want to come up with points that a 5 year old could come up, then I'm sure you can find a forum for that sort of thing.

We're not talking about a city that lives in complete isolation with the state and country around it. We're talking about cities where you can buy a gun in a different state and take it, without border checks, without your bags being screened, without your car being checked, and walk right into that city.

In Europe, well, this is different, because even though many are in the Schengen Zone, none of those countries have an abundance of guns.

Firearms used in crimes are mostly stolen and/or come from south of the border. No criminals buy firearms from gun shows dolt...
Gun Control does not work... Lol

You know what I love? I love people who "know" so much, and yet know nothing.

frontline: hot guns: "How Criminals Get Guns" | PBS

"Ask a cop on the beat how criminals get guns and you're likely to hear this hard boiled response: "They steal them." But this street wisdom is wrong, according to one frustrated Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) agent who is tired of battling this popular misconception."

(And funnily, it was people on the right who told me this first)

""Stolen guns account for only about 10% to 15% of guns used in crimes," Wachtel said."

"Wachtel says one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales. A straw purchase occurs when someone who may not legally acquire a firearm, or who wants to do so anonymously, has a companion buy it on their behalf."

"manner where two people walk into a gun store, one selects a firearm, and then the other uses identification for the purchase and pays for the gun."

"Or, several underage people walk into a store and an adult with them makes the purchases. Both of these are illegal activities."

"The next biggest source of illegal gun transactions where criminals get guns are sales made by legally licensed but corrupt at-home and commercial gun dealers."

"Several recent reports back up Wachtel's own studies about this, and make the case that illegal activity by those licensed to sell guns, known as Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs), is a huge source of crime guns and greatly surpasses the sale of guns stolen from John Q. Citizen."

Progressive source, no credibility.
Nice try...

 

[Rustic]

People saying 'guns don't kill people' is music to the ears of gun makers, just like 'cigarettes don't cause cancer' was music to the ears of the tobacco producers. Just as 'prescription opiates aren't to blame for addiciton, people addict themselves'.

When the lowest of lowlifes can get people to guy their crap even though it kills them and others and they make billions doing it they view this as heaven. When they can get the very people that are being killed by their product to defend their product, they are in pure white glowing bliss and satan bows before THEM.

Fucking pussies like you Are music to criminals ears... Lol

No, people like you are music to criminals' ears, because you'll believe anything you want to, and thus crime never gets dealt with properly.

The source of crime... People. ''Deal" with that, that's the only "proper" way.
Firearms have nothing to do with it. Silly dolt

 

[Rustic]

Cities are controlled by progressives and have the strictest "gun" control laws...

Listen, if you want to come up with points that a 5 year old could come up, then I'm sure you can find a forum for that sort of thing.

We're not talking about a city that lives in complete isolation with the state and country around it. We're talking about cities where you can buy a gun in a different state and take it, without border checks, without your bags being screened, without your car being checked, and walk right into that city.

In Europe, well, this is different, because even though many are in the Schengen Zone, none of those countries have an abundance of guns.

Firearms used in crimes are mostly stolen and/or come from south of the border. No criminals buy firearms from gun shows dolt...
Gun Control does not work... Lol

You know what I love? I love people who "know" so much, and yet know nothing.

frontline: hot guns: "How Criminals Get Guns" | PBS

"Ask a cop on the beat how criminals get guns and you're likely to hear this hard boiled response: "They steal them." But this street wisdom is wrong, according to one frustrated Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) agent who is tired of battling this popular misconception."

(And funnily, it was people on the right who told me this first)

""Stolen guns account for only about 10% to 15% of guns used in crimes," Wachtel said."

"Wachtel says one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales. A straw purchase occurs when someone who may not legally acquire a firearm, or who wants to do so anonymously, has a companion buy it on their behalf."

"manner where two people walk into a gun store, one selects a firearm, and then the other uses identification for the purchase and pays for the gun."

"Or, several underage people walk into a store and an adult with them makes the purchases. Both of these are illegal activities."

"The next biggest source of illegal gun transactions where criminals get guns are sales made by legally licensed but corrupt at-home and commercial gun dealers."

"Several recent reports back up Wachtel's own studies about this, and make the case that illegal activity by those licensed to sell guns, known as Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs), is a huge source of crime guns and greatly surpasses the sale of guns stolen from John Q. Citizen."

Progressive source, no credibility.
Nice try...

Do you know how to spot an idiot?

I'll give you a clue. People who reply to proper answers with complete and utter bullshit.

I've been waiting for the time when I thought it was worth putting you on ignore. Now is that time. Take your shit somewhere else.

Deflection

 

[westwall]

The fact is that the vast and overwhelming majority of people who own guns legally will never even point a gun at another person never mind fire at or kill another

I love this convoluted logic.

The fact that the VAST majority or car drivers never drive drunk means there should be no laws against drunk driving.

The fact that the VAST majority of IV drug users never OD means we should have no drug laws.

After all. There are anti drug laws and anti drunk driving laws. But do those laws stop drunk drivers and drug users? Fuck no. So get rid of gun laws, drunk driving laws, drug laws etc. They serve no purpose. Most druggies and drunks are law abiding. Most of the time. And watch this country turn into paradise right before your eyes.

I know you'll agree skull.

Notice how the laws you mention punish the criminal misuse of the product? Not one law requires the banning of cars for instance. We are all in favor of punishing the criminal misuse of guns. Why is it the legal system always releases the violent criminals back out into society? Why is that?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Of course, that's both true and obvious. To expand on the obvious most gun owners obey gun laws - some don't and they are the most likely to claim the 2nd A. is the only gun law that matters...

This is, of course, a lie.

and any law which infringes on a persons right to own, possess or have a gun in their custody and control is one which violates COTUS.

This is, of course, true - every law that infringes in the RKBA violates the constitution. just as every law that abridges free speech violates the constitution.

Of course a non biased reading of Heller (and the 2nd) is evidence that even Scalia understood the 2nd had limitations.

No one has argued otherwise.

cuokoo ^^^

We all know you were incapable of an honest and/or meaningful response.
Thanks for the proof.

 

[M14 Shooter]

States wh tougher gun laws have less gun crime .

Please compare and contrast the gun laws and the crime statistics for CA and VT.
When you do, you'll find your statement proven wrong.