Thank God for our RIGHT to keep and bear arms

[Skull Pilot]

There is a bizarre fascination by some here with people getting harmed or killed. They comb the news for any act of misery on Earth that they can find.

You do know the bad acts of one person with a gun is proof that all gun owners are killers waiting to go on a shooting spree don't you?

Oh please. We're not talking about all gun owners being guilty.

What we're talking about is guns in society and the impact guns, in the hands of humans, have on society.

You can wriggle and squirm all you like, but the impact is clearly there.

Since most guns are in the hands of people who will never kill anyone with them they have very little effect on society.

Not necessarily.

Firstly, guns being readily available has a big impact. Criminals get guns from bad deals, from stealing from law abiding people and so on. There are consequences to guns being so easily bought and obtained.

Gee criminals break the laws.

None of us knew that.

FYI all of us here who support the second are for draconian punishments for any gun crime

 

[Rustic]

Cute question - intentionally disingenuous. "What house with four people, ages 34, 32, 9 and 2, of which two have birthdays in the month of May, who drive a 4 year old Subaru with rust on the rear panel, is located on the north side of an east-west corridor, the name of which starts with P and ending with K has a small pine tree and an aspen in the left side of the yard as you face the house?"

The US ranks 34th in national homocide rates (in 2013) Intentional homicides (per 100,000 people) | Data | Table

Er..... not at all.

I use first world countries because there are lots of issues with countries who aren't first world.

The US somewhere near the top of many rankings, like GDP, like size of the economy and so on. To compare the USA to a country like Somalia is just ridiculous. To compare the US to a country like South Africa is still ridiculous.

To compare the US with a country like the UK, Canada, Australia, etc, which have the money to spend on social programs, which have the education, the resources to deal with problems effectively, then you see what the US should be and what the US is not.

Germany murder rate 0.7
France murder rate 1.2
UK murder rate 1.0
Spain murder rate 0.6
Sweden murder rate 0.9

US murder rate 3.8

Do you see the difference?

You can try and play little games and pretend that the US should be compared to Honduras, but the reality is the US has a GDP of $55,000, Honduras has a GDP of $4,800.

There's a massive difference.

We have seen an increase in gun ownership and a steady decrease in homicides and violent crimes overall over the past decade in fact violent crime is the lowest it's been in 40 years why is that do you think?

If guns truly are a causation of the high murder rates shouldn't we be seeing an increase in murder and crime in general?

Yes, but that doesn't mean that it's because of gun ownership. Maybe it's because people are wealthier and crime has been moved to certain parts of town where people are left to rot away from everyone else.

Had gun ownership gone done, perhaps crime would also have gone down.

What about crime rates in the rest of the world? Have they gone down with more or less gun ownership?

You're making a claim, yet it's such a flimsy remark, it's almost pointless.

UK crime rates have dropped since 1996, in 1997 stricter gun control was put in place due to the Dunblaine School Massacre (where Jamie Murray was at, at the time)

So, saying that guns have reduced crime, is a little far fetched, don't you thunkt?

In rural America firearms outnumber people many, many times over... The lowest crime rates are in rural areas. People kill people, firearms in law abiding hands have nothing to do with violent crimes.
You control freaks are delusional...

You don't even know my position on this whole thing. You're just jumping to conclusions. And then trying to insult. And it's not the first time. Maybe you should learn to make an argument and not insult.

The pro gun-control nutters try to distort the numbers in their favor by putting homicides, suicides and accidental deaths all in the same category... That's called lying.
The fact remains more "gun control" does not reduce crime numbers… in this country.
What fucked up socialist countries do is irrelevant here.

 

[M14 Shooter]

[
Thank you so much for offering your opinion; unfortunately your opinion(s) are foolish and not based on facts or reality.

See my previous post above, re: irony.

LOL, well, you do prove a few things with your obsessive fascination with guns

1. You're a liar

As the desert said to the grain of sand.

1. You're incapable of rebutting sound and logical arguments for controlling guns in America

As the ocean said to the raindrop

1. You have a fetish for guns
2. You are paranoid
3. You suffer from a personality disorder (Nee: a Sociopathic indifference for others)

Ad hom: the final resting place of those who know they have nothing worthwhile to say.

Thank you for continuing to prove that anti-gun loons can only argue from emotion, ignorance and/or dishonesty.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Once again, BULLSHIT
Gun control would not abolish / repeal the 2nd A. and most of those who support gun control also support the right of the ownership of a gun for self defense.

But, as you know, the mindless, meaningless, unnecessary and ineffective gun control you seek, by its very nature, infringes on the right to arms and therefore violate the 2nd.

 

[M14 Shooter]

BULLSHIT ^^^ complete and utter BULLSHIT

Funny how you think this is a meaningful rebuttal to a sound argument against additional gun control laws in the US.

 

[M14 Shooter]

[Qvails in the U.S. Congress as well as the Washington state legislature.

"Temporary confiscation " if a family can prove the gun owner is a dangerous crazy man. What's so bad about this !?

You can't trust Libtards with any interpretation of reasonableness because they are bat shit crazy and will always be unreasonable.

Unquestionably - and proven to the world by virtually every one of your posts.

 

[M14 Shooter]

I believe in the second amendment but it would be insane not to limit fire arms to the crazy people. Lets go to mars!

Good thing this is already covered by state and federal law.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Of course, that's both true and obvious. To expand on the obvious most gun owners obey gun laws - some don't and they are the most likely to claim the 2nd A. is the only gun law that matters...

This is, of course, a lie.

and any law which infringes on a persons right to own, possess or have a gun in their custody and control is one which violates COTUS.

This is, of course, true - every law that infringes in the RKBA violates the constitution. just as every law that abridges free speech violates the constitution.

Of course a non biased reading of Heller (and the 2nd) is evidence that even Scalia understood the 2nd had limitations.

No one has argued otherwise.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Especially since it is categorically FALSE !

Really?

Which first world countries have a murder rate lower than the USA?

Cute question - intentionally disingenuous. "What house with four people, ages 34, 32, 9 and 2, of which two have birthdays in the month of May, who drive a 4 year old Subaru with rust on the rear panel, is located on the north side of an east-west corridor, the name of which starts with P and ending with K has a small pine tree and an aspen in the left side of the yard as you face the house?"

The US ranks 34th in national homocide rates (in 2013) Intentional homicides (per 100,000 people) | Data | Table

Er..... not at all.

I use first world countries because there are lots of issues with countries who aren't first world.

The US somewhere near the top of many rankings, like GDP, like size of the economy and so on. To compare the USA to a country like Somalia is just ridiculous. To compare the US to a country like South Africa is still ridiculous.

To compare the US with a country like the UK, Canada, Australia, etc, which have the money to spend on social programs, which have the education, the resources to deal with problems effectively, then you see what the US should be and what the US is not.

Germany murder rate 0.7
France murder rate 1.2
UK murder rate 1.0
Spain murder rate 0.6
Sweden murder rate 0.9

US murder rate 3.8

Do you see the difference?

You can try and play little games and pretend that the US should be compared to Honduras, but the reality is the US has a GDP of $55,000, Honduras has a GDP of $4,800.

There's a massive difference.

We have seen an increase in gun ownership and a steady decrease in homicides and violent crimes overall over the past decade in fact violent crime is the lowest it's been in 40 years why is that do you think?

If guns truly are a causation of the high murder rates shouldn't we be seeing an increase in murder and crime in general?

Yes, but that doesn't mean that it's because of gun ownership. Maybe it's because people are wealthier and crime has been moved to certain parts of town where people are left to rot away from everyone else.

Had gun ownership gone done, perhaps crime would also have gone down.

What about crime rates in the rest of the world? Have they gone down with more or less gun ownership?

You're making a claim, yet it's such a flimsy remark, it's almost pointless.

UK crime rates have dropped since 1996, in 1997 stricter gun control was put in place due to the Dunblaine School Massacre (where Jamie Murray was at, at the time)

So, saying that guns have reduced crime, is a little far fetched, don't you thunkt?

Better look at your chart a little closer. Looks like crime rates were lower than today in 1981 long before the gun ban.

 

[Timmy]

Er..... not at all.

I use first world countries because there are lots of issues with countries who aren't first world.

The US somewhere near the top of many rankings, like GDP, like size of the economy and so on. To compare the USA to a country like Somalia is just ridiculous. To compare the US to a country like South Africa is still ridiculous.

To compare the US with a country like the UK, Canada, Australia, etc, which have the money to spend on social programs, which have the education, the resources to deal with problems effectively, then you see what the US should be and what the US is not.

Germany murder rate 0.7
France murder rate 1.2
UK murder rate 1.0
Spain murder rate 0.6
Sweden murder rate 0.9

US murder rate 3.8

Do you see the difference?

You can try and play little games and pretend that the US should be compared to Honduras, but the reality is the US has a GDP of $55,000, Honduras has a GDP of $4,800.

There's a massive difference.

We have seen an increase in gun ownership and a steady decrease in homicides and violent crimes overall over the past decade in fact violent crime is the lowest it's been in 40 years why is that do you think?

If guns truly are a causation of the high murder rates shouldn't we be seeing an increase in murder and crime in general?

Yes, but that doesn't mean that it's because of gun ownership. Maybe it's because people are wealthier and crime has been moved to certain parts of town where people are left to rot away from everyone else.

Had gun ownership gone done, perhaps crime would also have gone down.

What about crime rates in the rest of the world? Have they gone down with more or less gun ownership?

You're making a claim, yet it's such a flimsy remark, it's almost pointless.

UK crime rates have dropped since 1996, in 1997 stricter gun control was put in place due to the Dunblaine School Massacre (where Jamie Murray was at, at the time)

So, saying that guns have reduced crime, is a little far fetched, don't you thunkt?

In rural America firearms outnumber people many, many times over... The lowest crime rates are in rural areas. People kill people, firearms in law abiding hands have nothing to do with violent crimes.
You control freaks are delusional...

You don't even know my position on this whole thing. You're just jumping to conclusions. And then trying to insult. And it's not the first time. Maybe you should learn to make an argument and not insult.

The pro gun-control nutters try to distort the numbers in their favor by putting homicides, suicides and accidental deaths all in the same category... That's called lying.
The fact remains more "gun control" does not reduce crime numbers… in this country.
What fucked up socialist countries do is irrelevant here.

States wh tougher gun laws have less gun crime .

 

[Flash]

Here is a great example of how unreasonable the filthy ass Libtards are when it comes to the right to keep and bear arms.

This proposed legislation will make it virtually impossible to operate a legal gun store in the state of illinois.

You can't ever trust Liberals to be reasonable.

Those incompetent, corrupt and stupid Democrats can't control rampant crime among the minority population of Chicago so now they are going to make it impossible for a law abiding citizen to buy a firearm anywhere in the state.

That is the kind of assholes Liberals are.

Notice that Ms Potato Head (Gabby Gifford) is the evil bitch behind this stupid proposed law.

Proposed gun dealer bill would shut down most Illinois shops

Proposed gun dealer bill would shut down most Illinois shops

SPRINGFIELD - Gun shops would have an array of new regulations that require expensive security systems that would put most of them out of business if legislation coming before the Illinois House passes this week, says the Illinois State Rifle Association.



"Shops would be forced to deploy a long list of costly new business practices in order to maintain their licenses," an alert issued by the ISRA said over the weekend. "It is estimated that these new requirements would add at least $100 to the cost of firearm purchased from a licensed retailer."

 

[Rustic]

We have seen an increase in gun ownership and a steady decrease in homicides and violent crimes overall over the past decade in fact violent crime is the lowest it's been in 40 years why is that do you think?

If guns truly are a causation of the high murder rates shouldn't we be seeing an increase in murder and crime in general?

Yes, but that doesn't mean that it's because of gun ownership. Maybe it's because people are wealthier and crime has been moved to certain parts of town where people are left to rot away from everyone else.

Had gun ownership gone done, perhaps crime would also have gone down.

What about crime rates in the rest of the world? Have they gone down with more or less gun ownership?

You're making a claim, yet it's such a flimsy remark, it's almost pointless.

UK crime rates have dropped since 1996, in 1997 stricter gun control was put in place due to the Dunblaine School Massacre (where Jamie Murray was at, at the time)

So, saying that guns have reduced crime, is a little far fetched, don't you thunkt?

In rural America firearms outnumber people many, many times over... The lowest crime rates are in rural areas. People kill people, firearms in law abiding hands have nothing to do with violent crimes.
You control freaks are delusional...

You don't even know my position on this whole thing. You're just jumping to conclusions. And then trying to insult. And it's not the first time. Maybe you should learn to make an argument and not insult.

The pro gun-control nutters try to distort the numbers in their favor by putting homicides, suicides and accidental deaths all in the same category... That's called lying.
The fact remains more "gun control" does not reduce crime numbers… in this country.
What fucked up socialist countries do is irrelevant here.

States wh tougher gun laws have less gun crime .

Na, not really.
Rural areas throughout this country have many, many more firearms than people. Much less crime...
You're Lumping homicides, suicides and accidental deaths all in the same category... People that Do that are boldface liar's.
Lol

 

[2aguy]

We have seen an increase in gun ownership and a steady decrease in homicides and violent crimes overall over the past decade in fact violent crime is the lowest it's been in 40 years why is that do you think?

If guns truly are a causation of the high murder rates shouldn't we be seeing an increase in murder and crime in general?

Yes, but that doesn't mean that it's because of gun ownership. Maybe it's because people are wealthier and crime has been moved to certain parts of town where people are left to rot away from everyone else.

Had gun ownership gone done, perhaps crime would also have gone down.

What about crime rates in the rest of the world? Have they gone down with more or less gun ownership?

You're making a claim, yet it's such a flimsy remark, it's almost pointless.

UK crime rates have dropped since 1996, in 1997 stricter gun control was put in place due to the Dunblaine School Massacre (where Jamie Murray was at, at the time)

So, saying that guns have reduced crime, is a little far fetched, don't you thunkt?

In rural America firearms outnumber people many, many times over... The lowest crime rates are in rural areas. People kill people, firearms in law abiding hands have nothing to do with violent crimes.
You control freaks are delusional...

You don't even know my position on this whole thing. You're just jumping to conclusions. And then trying to insult. And it's not the first time. Maybe you should learn to make an argument and not insult.

The pro gun-control nutters try to distort the numbers in their favor by putting homicides, suicides and accidental deaths all in the same category... That's called lying.
The fact remains more "gun control" does not reduce crime numbers… in this country.
What fucked up socialist countries do is irrelevant here.

States wh tougher gun laws have less gun crime .

Wrong.....

 

[2aguy]

From the AP:
"DETROIT — Police say a young Detroit girl who found a gun under her grandmother's pillow accidentally shot herself and died.

Police say the girl was 4 years old, but relatives at the scene said Mariah Davis was 5.

Sgt. Michael Woody says officers responded to the home around midnight Tuesday. The girl's grandparents were elsewhere in the house at the time of the shooting. Two other children weren't injured.

Assistant Police Chief Steve Dolunt says guns should be unloaded or secured with a child lock. He says Mariah's death is "sad and tragic" and could have been prevented.

Police Cmdr. Jacqueline Pritchett says charges are possible. She says she felt "sick" in her heart when she got the call."

This just happened.
Irresponsible firearm ownership. Criminal negligence. Indefensible, totally avoidable.

Guns don't kill people, little children do, I sawed it in a docuwmentuhrary on BB2.....

I'm sure the video games, TV, and movies aren't helping any either . . . . .


But it sure as hell isn't the guns. We've always had the 2nd.

Like I've said. People with guns are far more likely to kill than people without guns.

The fact that there are only 2 cities in the US above 250,000 people with lower murders than most of the first world, suggests that guns ARE a problem in society.

Then explain why more people are killed with fists and feet than by all rifles shotguns combined

How many people own rifles and shotguns in the USA?
When ALL GUNS, seeing as we're talking about guns, are taken into account, then we have a lot more murders than anything else combined.

FastStats
United States Crime Rates 1960 - 2014

In 2011 there were 11,203 firearm homicides.
In 2011 there were 14,661 murders.

I make that 76.4% of all murders are committed with firearms. 3/4

Now, funny you'd mention this, because the US murder rate is 4 times larger than the UK murder rate.

3.5 was the firearm homicide rate. This means the US murder rate was 4.66666 per 100,000.

The UK murder rate is 1.0

So, the UK murder rate is slightly lower than the US non-firearm murder rate.

Coincidence?

Nope.....the British didn't have a high murder rate before they banned guns......after they banned guns their gun crime rate spiked and then went back to the same level it was at before they confiscated their guns.....

British criminals do not commit murder...they have as much access to guns as our criminals do, they just don't use them to commit murder.....

 

[2aguy]

Especially since it is categorically FALSE !

Really?

Which first world countries have a murder rate lower than the USA?

Cute question - intentionally disingenuous. "What house with four people, ages 34, 32, 9 and 2, of which two have birthdays in the month of May, who drive a 4 year old Subaru with rust on the rear panel, is located on the north side of an east-west corridor, the name of which starts with P and ending with K has a small pine tree and an aspen in the left side of the yard as you face the house?"

The US ranks 34th in national homocide rates (in 2013) Intentional homicides (per 100,000 people) | Data | Table

Er..... not at all.

I use first world countries because there are lots of issues with countries who aren't first world.

The US somewhere near the top of many rankings, like GDP, like size of the economy and so on. To compare the USA to a country like Somalia is just ridiculous. To compare the US to a country like South Africa is still ridiculous.

To compare the US with a country like the UK, Canada, Australia, etc, which have the money to spend on social programs, which have the education, the resources to deal with problems effectively, then you see what the US should be and what the US is not.

Germany murder rate 0.7
France murder rate 1.2
UK murder rate 1.0
Spain murder rate 0.6
Sweden murder rate 0.9

US murder rate 3.8

Do you see the difference?

You can try and play little games and pretend that the US should be compared to Honduras, but the reality is the US has a GDP of $55,000, Honduras has a GDP of $4,800.

There's a massive difference.

We have seen an increase in gun ownership and a steady decrease in homicides and violent crimes overall over the past decade in fact violent crime is the lowest it's been in 40 years why is that do you think?

If guns truly are a causation of the high murder rates shouldn't we be seeing an increase in murder and crime in general?

Yes, but that doesn't mean that it's because of gun ownership. Maybe it's because people are wealthier and crime has been moved to certain parts of town where people are left to rot away from everyone else.

Had gun ownership gone done, perhaps crime would also have gone down.

What about crime rates in the rest of the world? Have they gone down with more or less gun ownership?

You're making a claim, yet it's such a flimsy remark, it's almost pointless.

UK crime rates have dropped since 1996, in 1997 stricter gun control was put in place due to the Dunblaine School Massacre (where Jamie Murray was at, at the time)

So, saying that guns have reduced crime, is a little far fetched, don't you thunkt?

And here you go....

And their gun crime rate went up 4% last year .....and they are arming more of their police with guns....and incidents where criminals are shooting at police have gone up......just the last few years...you know...after they confiscated their guns....

 

[2aguy]

Especially since it is categorically FALSE !

Really?

Which first world countries have a murder rate lower than the USA?

Cute question - intentionally disingenuous. "What house with four people, ages 34, 32, 9 and 2, of which two have birthdays in the month of May, who drive a 4 year old Subaru with rust on the rear panel, is located on the north side of an east-west corridor, the name of which starts with P and ending with K has a small pine tree and an aspen in the left side of the yard as you face the house?"

The US ranks 34th in national homocide rates (in 2013) Intentional homicides (per 100,000 people) | Data | Table

Er..... not at all.

I use first world countries because there are lots of issues with countries who aren't first world.

The US somewhere near the top of many rankings, like GDP, like size of the economy and so on. To compare the USA to a country like Somalia is just ridiculous. To compare the US to a country like South Africa is still ridiculous.

To compare the US with a country like the UK, Canada, Australia, etc, which have the money to spend on social programs, which have the education, the resources to deal with problems effectively, then you see what the US should be and what the US is not.

Germany murder rate 0.7
France murder rate 1.2
UK murder rate 1.0
Spain murder rate 0.6
Sweden murder rate 0.9

US murder rate 3.8

Do you see the difference?

You can try and play little games and pretend that the US should be compared to Honduras, but the reality is the US has a GDP of $55,000, Honduras has a GDP of $4,800.

There's a massive difference.

We have seen an increase in gun ownership and a steady decrease in homicides and violent crimes overall over the past decade in fact violent crime is the lowest it's been in 40 years why is that do you think?

If guns truly are a causation of the high murder rates shouldn't we be seeing an increase in murder and crime in general?

Yes, but that doesn't mean that it's because of gun ownership. Maybe it's because people are wealthier and crime has been moved to certain parts of town where people are left to rot away from everyone else.

Had gun ownership gone done, perhaps crime would also have gone down.

What about crime rates in the rest of the world? Have they gone down with more or less gun ownership?

You're making a claim, yet it's such a flimsy remark, it's almost pointless.

UK crime rates have dropped since 1996, in 1997 stricter gun control was put in place due to the Dunblaine School Massacre (where Jamie Murray was at, at the time)

So, saying that guns have reduced crime, is a little far fetched, don't you thunkt?

UK crime rates have dropped since 1996, in 1997 stricter gun control was put in place due to the Dunblaine School Massacre (where Jamie Murray was at, at the time)




And Americans have increased gun ownership from 320,000,000 million guns in 2013....to 357,000,000 million guns in 2015...and our gun murder rate went down.......our crime rate has gone down since the 1990s as well....and we have been buying and carrying guns more and more.......

Again...it isn't access to guns that create gun murder...it is the culture of the criminals that create murder....

 

[2aguy]

From the AP:
"DETROIT — Police say a young Detroit girl who found a gun under her grandmother's pillow accidentally shot herself and died.

Police say the girl was 4 years old, but relatives at the scene said Mariah Davis was 5.

Sgt. Michael Woody says officers responded to the home around midnight Tuesday. The girl's grandparents were elsewhere in the house at the time of the shooting. Two other children weren't injured.

Assistant Police Chief Steve Dolunt says guns should be unloaded or secured with a child lock. He says Mariah's death is "sad and tragic" and could have been prevented.

Police Cmdr. Jacqueline Pritchett says charges are possible. She says she felt "sick" in her heart when she got the call."

This just happened.
Irresponsible firearm ownership. Criminal negligence. Indefensible, totally avoidable.

Guns don't kill people, little children do, I sawed it in a docuwmentuhrary on BB2.....

I'm sure the video games, TV, and movies aren't helping any either . . . . .


But it sure as hell isn't the guns. We've always had the 2nd.

Like I've said. People with guns are far more likely to kill than people without guns.

The fact that there are only 2 cities in the US above 250,000 people with lower murders than most of the first world, suggests that guns ARE a problem in society.

Then explain why more people are killed with fists and feet than by all rifles shotguns combined

How many people own rifles and shotguns in the USA?
When ALL GUNS, seeing as we're talking about guns, are taken into account, then we have a lot more murders than anything else combined.

FastStats
United States Crime Rates 1960 - 2014

In 2011 there were 11,203 firearm homicides.
In 2011 there were 14,661 murders.

I make that 76.4% of all murders are committed with firearms. 3/4

Now, funny you'd mention this, because the US murder rate is 4 times larger than the UK murder rate.

3.5 was the firearm homicide rate. This means the US murder rate was 4.66666 per 100,000.

The UK murder rate is 1.0

So, the UK murder rate is slightly lower than the US non-firearm murder rate.

Coincidence?

In 1997 there were 200,000,000 million guns in private hands....

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf

In 2013...there were over 320,000,000 guns in private hands and our crime rate dropped....dramatically....our gun murder rate...dropped dramatically......

In 2014 there were 357,000,000 million guns in private hands...and our gun murder rate dropped again....

So....in 1997....200,000,000 million guns in private hands....

in 2013......over 320,000,000 guns...what did our gun murder rate do in that time....

-----

Murder by firearm….

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

And here is the FBI table 8……it is a great table because it goes back4 years to show the rates of decrease….

FBI Table 2004

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8 - Crime in the United States 2008

2014 table…..

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

From 2014…..and I added 2011……

2006

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8 and

2006 fbi table 8

Federal Bureau of Investigation - Uniform Crime Reports - 2000

gun murder rate 1997 -2000


1997..... 10,729
1998..... 9,257
1999..... 8,480
2000..... 8,493
2001..... 8,719
2002... 9,369
2003.... 9,638
2004..... 9,385
2005.... 10,158
2006.... 10,225
2007 10,129
2008-- 9,528
2009-- 9,199
2010- 8,874
2011-- 8,653
2012-- 8,897
2013-- 8,454
2014-- 8,124


Not one thing you believe about guns is true or accurate......

 

[2aguy]

Especially since it is categorically FALSE !

Really?

Which first world countries have a murder rate lower than the USA?

Cute question - intentionally disingenuous. "What house with four people, ages 34, 32, 9 and 2, of which two have birthdays in the month of May, who drive a 4 year old Subaru with rust on the rear panel, is located on the north side of an east-west corridor, the name of which starts with P and ending with K has a small pine tree and an aspen in the left side of the yard as you face the house?"

The US ranks 34th in national homocide rates (in 2013) Intentional homicides (per 100,000 people) | Data | Table

Er..... not at all.

I use first world countries because there are lots of issues with countries who aren't first world.

The US somewhere near the top of many rankings, like GDP, like size of the economy and so on. To compare the USA to a country like Somalia is just ridiculous. To compare the US to a country like South Africa is still ridiculous.

To compare the US with a country like the UK, Canada, Australia, etc, which have the money to spend on social programs, which have the education, the resources to deal with problems effectively, then you see what the US should be and what the US is not.

Germany murder rate 0.7
France murder rate 1.2
UK murder rate 1.0
Spain murder rate 0.6
Sweden murder rate 0.9

US murder rate 3.8

Do you see the difference?

You can try and play little games and pretend that the US should be compared to Honduras, but the reality is the US has a GDP of $55,000, Honduras has a GDP of $4,800.

There's a massive difference.

We have seen an increase in gun ownership and a steady decrease in homicides and violent crimes overall over the past decade in fact violent crime is the lowest it's been in 40 years why is that do you think?

If guns truly are a causation of the high murder rates shouldn't we be seeing an increase in murder and crime in general?

Yes, but that doesn't mean that it's because of gun ownership. Maybe it's because people are wealthier and crime has been moved to certain parts of town where people are left to rot away from everyone else.

Had gun ownership gone done, perhaps crime would also have gone down.

What about crime rates in the rest of the world? Have they gone down with more or less gun ownership?

You're making a claim, yet it's such a flimsy remark, it's almost pointless.

UK crime rates have dropped since 1996, in 1997 stricter gun control was put in place due to the Dunblaine School Massacre (where Jamie Murray was at, at the time)

So, saying that guns have reduced crime, is a little far fetched, don't you thunkt?

But...the British homicide rate is up 14%....their gun crime rate is up 4%.......after they confiscated guns...

Homicides in England and Wales up 14%

The police-recorded crime figures include a 9% rise in knife crime and a 4% rise in gun crime, which are thought to reflect a rise in gang violence largely in London and Manchester. The rise in gun crime is the first recorded for eight years and includes a 10% rise in London.

Allow me to repeat that..........

The rise in gun crime is the first recorded for eight years and includes a 10% rise in London.

They confiscated their guns...remember....this should not be possible...according to you....

 

[2aguy]

Especially since it is categorically FALSE !

Really?

Which first world countries have a murder rate lower than the USA?

Cute question - intentionally disingenuous. "What house with four people, ages 34, 32, 9 and 2, of which two have birthdays in the month of May, who drive a 4 year old Subaru with rust on the rear panel, is located on the north side of an east-west corridor, the name of which starts with P and ending with K has a small pine tree and an aspen in the left side of the yard as you face the house?"

The US ranks 34th in national homocide rates (in 2013) Intentional homicides (per 100,000 people) | Data | Table

Er..... not at all.

I use first world countries because there are lots of issues with countries who aren't first world.

The US somewhere near the top of many rankings, like GDP, like size of the economy and so on. To compare the USA to a country like Somalia is just ridiculous. To compare the US to a country like South Africa is still ridiculous.

To compare the US with a country like the UK, Canada, Australia, etc, which have the money to spend on social programs, which have the education, the resources to deal with problems effectively, then you see what the US should be and what the US is not.

Germany murder rate 0.7
France murder rate 1.2
UK murder rate 1.0
Spain murder rate 0.6
Sweden murder rate 0.9

US murder rate 3.8

Do you see the difference?

You can try and play little games and pretend that the US should be compared to Honduras, but the reality is the US has a GDP of $55,000, Honduras has a GDP of $4,800.

There's a massive difference.

We have seen an increase in gun ownership and a steady decrease in homicides and violent crimes overall over the past decade in fact violent crime is the lowest it's been in 40 years why is that do you think?

If guns truly are a causation of the high murder rates shouldn't we be seeing an increase in murder and crime in general?

Yes, but that doesn't mean that it's because of gun ownership. Maybe it's because people are wealthier and crime has been moved to certain parts of town where people are left to rot away from everyone else.

Had gun ownership gone done, perhaps crime would also have gone down.

What about crime rates in the rest of the world? Have they gone down with more or less gun ownership?

You're making a claim, yet it's such a flimsy remark, it's almost pointless.

UK crime rates have dropped since 1996, in 1997 stricter gun control was put in place due to the Dunblaine School Massacre (where Jamie Murray was at, at the time)

So, saying that guns have reduced crime, is a little far fetched, don't you thunkt?

And another look at what you say should not be possible...and should not be happening....

Violent crime jumps 27 per cent in new figures released by the Office for National Statistics

 

[2aguy]

There is a bizarre fascination by some here with people getting harmed or killed. They comb the news for any act of misery on Earth that they can find.

You do know the bad acts of one person with a gun is proof that all gun owners are killers waiting to go on a shooting spree don't you?

Oh please. We're not talking about all gun owners being guilty.

What we're talking about is guns in society and the impact guns, in the hands of humans, have on society.

You can wriggle and squirm all you like, but the impact is clearly there.

Since most guns are in the hands of people who will never kill anyone with them they have very little effect on society.

Of course, that's both true and obvious. To expand on the obvious most gun owners obey gun laws - some don't and they are the most likely to claim the 2nd A. is the only gun law that matters, and any law which infringes on a persons right to own, possess or have a gun in their custody and control is one which violates COTUS. Of course a non biased reading of Heller (and the 2nd) is evidence that even Scalia understood the 2nd had limitations.

Yes....you can't use a gun to commit a crime.....you can't own a gun as a felon.....

Those are limitations......you morons think that he gave you a blank check to enact as much gun control as you want to limit every aspect of gun ownership as you can think of......