The 5th column

[Hobbit]

I think Catholicism is a Christian denomination that has lost its real meaning in a sea of tradition and ritual. I think they've got some pretty messed up ideas, but as long as they believe that Christ was the savior and they ask him to forgive their sins, then they are saved.

One of the biggest problems I have is that they think all this ritual is needed to get into Heaven. I think baptism is an excellent practice of symbolism, communion is a good tradition of rememberence, and confession is good for the soul. However, I always like to point out that when the thief on the cross asked Jesus to remember him, Jesus didn't say, "Well, you could get into Heaven, but first we need to baptise you. Then you have to give a confession and take communion."

 

[Palestinian Jew]

Since you don't see the violation of the Commandments by all the IMAGES of Christ, nor do you see your own writings of popes and ignore their history of crusades, I would refer you to your own vatican 2 and how it claims to lump every religion under one umbrella claiming all are the same path to God -but subservient to catholocism. Remember Christ is the one true way, not man.

I see Christ as what he represents, and every religion(we'll exclude Islam in this case just so I can aviod another argument with you) promotes his main message: love. So I don't believe that a person must accept the name "Christ" but rather his teachings to be able to go to a better place in the next life.

I've never heard anyone in the Catholic church say that all religions are subservient to catholocism, but then again, my knowledge of the church, after a lifetime of learing, can't compare to your own vast knowledge.

Since you do not seem to understand what idolatry is, maybe I should explain it: its the worship of an object as God. I have never worshipped those images of christ, and NOWHERE does the church ever worship those images. They serve as a daily reminder of Christ's suffering for all of us.

If that is too intellectual for you, refer to the pic of the pope kissing the koran.

Condescension is common among Catholic haters.

In fact, Bible reading is discouraged-lay people lack the necessary training to understand it-the very Word of God!

This is exactly why the lay person has no right to read the bible, because nutcases like you guys can get ahold of it!

The Catholic Bible is different.

Yeah, we have more books.

Revelations is explained as John's dream of the destruction of Babylon thousands of years before. Some revelation! Of course, this is done for good reason. When Revelations is viewed as end-time prophecy, the Catholic church doesn't exactly come out smelling like a rose.

Did the preacher with the neon sign on his back tell you this? Catholics see the book of Revelation as the end times, we just aren't obsessed with it like you are. Focusing on the here and now and what you're doing in life is the important thing to do, not worrying about the future.

The second commandment, "Thou shalt make unto thee no graven images" does not even appear in Catholic teaching. They repair the obvious numeric damage by splitting the tenth commandment in two: 9. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife. 10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's goods.

That guy with the neon sign is really getting to you. Every religion divides their commandments in seperate ways, including different parts of the catholic church. In the local catholic school, children are learning that "though shall not worship false idols".

Baptism, according to Catholicism, is not done by immersion and raising up (the symbolic rebirth), but by a sprinkling.

I'm sure you'll also say you know more about the catholic church than I do too, but we don't sprinkle. Water is poured over the head, which also symolizes being born into christ.

Moreover, infants are baptized. This is an abomination.

Have you ever heard of Confirmation?

The one and only intercessor between God and man is Jesus Christ; not the virgin Mary, not your father confessor, not the dead.

Another misconception.

Although bachelorhood was recommended by the Apostle Paul, it is not required for priests. This is a Catholic concoction.

Catholic priests are bachelors because Christ was a bachelor.

God invites us to pray, which means to talk to Him, not to woodenly chant Catholic prayers.

Your prayers, just like any, can be chanted woodenly.

The Catholic church teaches that the only path to salvation is to be in good standing with the Catholic church and to receive the sacraments. Jesus said (I'm paraphrasing) Believe on me and be baptized.

To be in good standing you have to follow Christ.

 

[sitarro]

Originally posted by NewGuy


2. I don't watch tv you weenie.

I am always suspect of anyone who claims to not watch television . That is as rediculous as the claim that there is nothing worth watching on TV. Do you also refuse to fly in those aluminum tubes known as airplanes , how about cars . Obviously computers are ok as are message boards .
By not watching television ,you rob yourself of a medium that is truely wonderous . Just the discovery channel alone is a reason to have a tv and cable . No book can teach you what you can not only hear but also see . An author can try to describe in words what a lions roar sounds like , it will always be nothing compared to hearing it on television , the only thing better would be to go to Africa and hear it in person .

From what you have said in previous posts , it would appear that everything you believe is based on the bible . Who wrote the bible? Why is it so poorly written that it can be interpreted by any opportunist that wants to steal money . I have a problem believing that a God that is capable of creating something as perfect as a fox would produce such a pathetic excuse for literature . Bible studies? Who could possibly know what the real bible said? The one that is being used today has been screwed around with for centuries , then "scholars " interpret it according to whomever is paying them , what makes you feel you have the truth?
I don't need an ancient book , written by awful writers , to tell me how to act . I do my best to help others in need and try to treat others like I would want to be treated . I believe in the creator , one with an obvious sense of humor , one who is well above human tendencies and needs . I don't believe in a God who sits on a gold throne that demands to be worshipped like the worst dictators in human history . My church is surrounding myself in God's creations , not closing myself off from the world in the buildings preachers construct with the money they collect from their followers . I worship by noticing the splendore that is found all around us . The glorious sunsets in the desert , the hummingbird nourishing itself with the nectar from a flower that it then goes to another to pollenate and continue life . A whale that is bigger than a house but gentle enough to brush alongside your kayak without destroying you . A rainstorm in the redwood forest in Northern California . Yosemite and the Grand Canyon , these are my churches .
I know I will be labeled but I really don't care , if I get condemned for my life , I guess I will have given more credit to the creator than he deserves , I doubt it.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by Palestinian Jew
I see Christ as what he represents, and every religion(we'll exclude Islam in this case just so I can aviod another argument with you) promotes his main message: love. So I don't believe that a person must accept the name "Christ" but rather his teachings to be able to go to a better place in the next life.

Believing you will have another glass of water doesn't make you a fish tank either. The Bible tells you there is one way. Believe what you like.

I've never heard anyone in the Catholic church say that all religions are subservient to catholocism, but then again, my knowledge of the church, after a lifetime of learing, can't compare to your own vast knowledge.

Sorry, we all ought to know why we believe what we do.

Since you do not seem to understand what idolatry is, maybe I should explain it: its the worship of an object as God. I have never worshipped those images of christ, and NOWHERE does the church ever worship those images. They serve as a daily reminder of Christ's suffering for all of us.

I mentioned the images. That is clearly condemned in the Bible. I didn't see you adress that.

Condescension is common among Catholic haters.

Yeah, you are right. I made it up with photoshop and put it world wide. In fact the press ate it up and the catholic church even makes statements about it as if it were a real photo.

This is exactly why the lay person has no right to read the bible, because nutcases like you guys can get ahold of it!

Good thing Jesus never spoke to nutcases, they might actually get saved. -OR even write the books of the Bible and get called the "apostles".

Yeah, we have more books.

Too bad they aren't Biblical.

Catholics see the book of Revelation as the end times, we just aren't obsessed with it like you are. Focusing on the here and now and what you're doing in life is the important thing to do, not worrying about the future.

When Christ says to look for Him to come, and to be ready, you do what you are told. Even a catholic should understand blind faith.

That guy with the neon sign is really getting to you. Every religion divides their commandments in seperate ways, including different parts of the catholic church. In the local catholic school, children are learning that "though shall not worship false idols".

1. No, religions do NOT all devide God's word their own way. CULTS do.

2. You just proved catholocism a cult.

3. Should they worship TRUE idols?

Have you ever heard of Confirmation?

Another ritual.

To be in good standing you have to follow Christ.

Therefore, the whole church by your own admission is following false doctrine and their own way, being a cult, performing rituals, and NOT in good standing with Christ.

 

[Palestinian Jew]

Sitarro, I couldn't express it any better.

Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Palestinian Jew]

Believing you will have another glass of water doesn't make you a fish tank either. The Bible tells you there is one way. Believe what you like.

Its all a matter of interpretation.

I mentioned the images. That is clearly condemned in the Bible. I didn't see you adress that.

I did. Every religion is different. Your bible is different from mine. Its all up to interpretation. It was written 70 years after Christ's death and for the protestants, 1500.

Good thing Jesus never spoke to nutcases, they might actually get saved. -OR even write the books of the Bible and get called the "apostles".

I think they had a little more knowledge of the bible than most lay people, just a little.

Should they worship TRUE idols?

Explain.

No, religions do NOT all devide God's word their own way. CULTS do.

Yes they do. You are interpreting in a way that makes you hate catholics. We have our interpretation, you have yours.

 

[musicman]

Originally posted by Palestinian Jew
.....This is exactly why the lay person has no right to read the bible, because nutcases like you guys can get ahold of it!
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Whether you knew it or not, about midway through that post, you began addressing your remarks to an ex-Catholic. So, let's talk, Dude!

Are you saying-with a straight face-that lay people have no right to read the Bible???!!
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QUOTE:
Yeah, we have more books.
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Yeah, more books explaining why it's okay for the Catholic church to deviate from the Word of God.
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QUOTE:
Did the preacher with the neon sign on his back tell you this? Catholics see the book of Revelation as the end times, we just aren't obsessed with it like you are.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wrong. Check your Catholic Bible. At the beginning of every new book is the Catholic explanation of that book. Revelations is clearly explained as John's dream of the destruction of Babylon.
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QUOTE:
Focusing on the here and now and what you're doing in life is the important thing to do, not worrying about the future.
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My works are as filthy rags. All men fall short of the glory. Does any of that sound familiar? No, wait- as a Catholic lay person, you don't have the right to read the Bible. Sorry, I forgot.
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QUOTE:
That guy with the neon sign is really getting to you. Every religion divides their commandments in seperate ways, including different parts of the catholic church. In the local catholic school, children are learning that "though shall not worship false idols".
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay, what the hell is that-the eleventh commandment? Only the Catholic church subtracts and re-writes commandments as it sees fit. It is a church of the world-ever changing and seeking approval. I remember latin mass, St. Christopher medals (before he and a bunch of other saints got demoted) and no meat on Fridays. The Word of God is eternal and unchanging.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

QUOTE:
I'm sure you'll also say you know more about the catholic church than I do too, but we don't sprinkle. Water is poured over the head, which also symolizes being born into christ.
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Hence the term "sprinkling" as opposed to "immersion".
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QUOTE:
Have you ever heard of Confirmation?
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Yes.
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QUOTE:
Another misconception.

Catholic priests are bachelors because Christ was a bachelor.
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Peter wasn't. Nowhere in the Bible does it state that a family man can't be a priest.
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QUOTE:
Your prayers, just like any, can be chanted woodenly.
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Agreed.
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QUOTE:
To be in good standing you have to follow Christ.
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And read your catechism, and pray to the virgin Mary, and receive the sacraments.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by sitarro
I am always suspect of anyone who claims to not watch television . That is as rediculous as the claim that there is nothing worth watching on TV.

1. I don't care who you are suspicious of.
2. I have a tv with rabit ears in the middle of sacramento BY CHOICE. I once cut the cord from my tv, wrapped it in duct tape and threw it away for more than 7 years. -Until I got a dvd player. Having a child, it is helpful to view videos on a tv as opposed to painting murals to simulate moving pictures for learning.

Do you also refuse to fly in those aluminum tubes known as airplanes , how about cars . Obviously computers are ok as are message boards .

1. Planes are now a bad thing to be in since they can be shot down by military when hijacked and passengers would have no control nor clue. Since the pilot ( or hijacker) can be armed and locked behined a door where I can't get there if an emergency occurs, that doesn't make me feel any better.

2. Cars are fine with me. Computers are not real great but they are better than tv, and boards are on par with computers in general.

By not watching television ,you rob yourself of a medium that is truely wonderous . Just the discovery channel alone is a reason to have a tv and cable .

You are right. It robs me of HOURS of productive time with family, reading, working, and bettering myself. It also robs me of relaxation as the frequency of colors across a picture tube incite a relaxation subliminally which is more powerful than sleep. This causes the mind to become more exhausted yet addicted to the tube's effects. Combined with subliminal programming in advertisements and such, not to mention animators producing kid's shows who admittedly put in graphic content to just "have fun" with between-frame technology, I really DO rob myself of some miraculous effects.

And to think I could spend 30-70 dollars on it.

No book can teach you what you can not only hear but also see .

You don't read much.

An author can try to describe in words what a lions roar sounds like , it will always be nothing compared to hearing it on television , the only thing better would be to go to Africa and hear it in person .

And....why would you not see it in person or hear it on radio?

From what you have said in previous posts , it would appear that everything you believe is based on the bible . Who wrote the bible? Why is it so poorly written that it can be interpreted by any opportunist that wants to steal money .

Anything can be interpreted any which way a person wants, that doesn't make it fact, nor correct. That also does not make the text bad.

Many people all over the world, many not knowing each other and across many generations wrote the Bible.

I have a problem believing that a God that is capable of creating something as perfect as a fox would produce such a pathetic excuse for literature .

He created the thoughts. They made their way to original Greek and Hebrew. Everything from there was man. Don't blame God for man's shortcomings. Verify your perspective against original text.

Bible studies? Who could possibly know what the real bible said? The one that is being used today has been screwed around with for centuries , then "scholars " interpret it according to whomever is paying them , what makes you feel you have the truth?

Again, see above. If what a person believes is in line with orignal text, then it is right.

I don't need an ancient book , written by awful writers , to tell me how to act .

Awful writers don't produce prophecy hundreds of years in advance with names and sequences of events listed in order. This is inspired by God.

I do my best to help others in need and try to treat others like I would want to be treated . I believe in the creator , one with an obvious sense of humor , one who is well above human tendencies and needs . I don't believe in a God who sits on a gold throne that demands to be worshipped like the worst dictators in human history .

Yet you would treat your dog that way, I bet.

My church is surrounding myself in God's creations , not closing myself off from the world in the buildings preachers construct with the money they collect from their followers . I worship by noticing the splendore that is found all around us . The glorious sunsets in the desert , the hummingbird nourishing itself with the nectar from a flower that it then goes to another to pollenate and continue life . A whale that is bigger than a house but gentle enough to brush alongside your kayak without destroying you . A rainstorm in the redwood forest in Northern California . Yosemite and the Grand Canyon , these are my churches .

Fine, where is your relationship with Christ?

I know I will be labeled but I really don't care , if I get condemned for my life , I guess I will have given more credit to the creator than he deserves , I doubt it.

Eternity is longer than 120 years. It might be worth checking out a relationship with Christ.

 

[Palestinian Jew]

sitarro, you'd be better off going to hell on your own accord. Accepting NewGuy's religion will most likely land you in hell, especially since he probably believes that every nonchristian automatically goes to hell, then 90% of his brand of christianity goes to hell.

 

[Palestinian Jew]

Again, see above. If what a person believes is in line with orignal text, then it is right.

Are you talking about ALL original text?

 

[sitarro]

Originally posted by NewGuy
"1. I don't care who you are suspicious of.
2. I have a tv with rabit ears in the middle of sacramento BY CHOICE. I once cut the cord from my tv, wrapped it in duct tape and threw it away for more than 7 years. -Until I got a dvd player. Having a child, it is helpful to view videos on a tv as opposed to painting murals to simulate moving pictures for learning.

1. Planes are now a bad thing to be in since they can be shot down by military when hijacked and passengers would have no control nor clue. Since the pilot ( or hijacker) can be armed and locked behined a door where I can't get there if an emergency occurs, that doesn't make me feel any better."


Planes aren't the bad thing , religious fanatics are . Why would I want you to have access to the cocpit , what are you going to do in an emergency?





"You are right. It robs me of HOURS of productive time with family, reading, working, and bettering myself. It also robs me of relaxation as the frequency of colors across a picture tube incite a relaxation subliminally which is more powerful than sleep. This causes the mind to become more exhausted yet addicted to the tube's effects. Combined with subliminal programming in advertisements and such, not to mention animators producing kid's shows who admittedly put in graphic content to just "have fun" with between-frame technology, I really DO rob myself of some miraculous effects.

And to think I could spend 30-70 dollars on it."


Most tvs in today's world have channel selectors . You aren't forced to watch anything . You can also eliminate those awful commercials . What kind of tv do you watch ? I have never been put to sleep while watching television . . . wait , I need to amend that , Billy Graham put me to sleep while trying to drum up more money for his ministry. Subliminal programming? As long as you wear that tin foil hat they won't get you .


"You don't read much."


I actually read a great deal , mostly books on improving my skills as an illustrator and photographer , resource books on travel (yes , I do fly in those big metal tubes) , informative books on wildlife and nature in general .



"And....why would you not see it in person or hear it on radio?"



Gee I guess I could spend thousands of dollars to travel to Africa and experience what I could watching a big screen with surround sound . Radio?



"Anything can be interpreted any which way a person wants, that doesn't make it fact, nor correct. That also does not make the text bad.

Many people all over the world, many not knowing each other and across many generations wrote the Bible."


So what , it has also been changed by whomever was ruling at the time .



"He created the thoughts. They made their way to original Greek and Hebrew. Everything from there was man. Don't blame God for man's shortcomings. Verify your perspective against original text.
Again, see above. If what a person believes is in line with orignal text, then it is right."


Again , you place a lot of faith in what you think is original text , how do you know what is original text?



"Awful writers don't produce prophecy hundreds of years in advance with names and sequences of events listed in order. This is inspired by God."



No they produce writings that put one to sleep within the first paragraph .



"Yet you would treat your dog that way, I bet."


Actually the 4 dogs I have had in the past were treated at least as well as humans . They stayed in my house with me most of the time , they had their own couches , and I took them for long runs everyday . They were all Afghan Hounds , very independent , not robot dogs . You lose the bet.



"Fine, where is your relationship with Christ? "



What exactly does that mean ? Are you asking if I talk to Christ? What is a relationship with Christ ?


"Eternity is longer than 120 years. It might be worth checking out a relationship with Christ. "


Is that a threat , nothing like religions based on threats .
I don't know what having a relationship with Christ means .

 

[deaddude]

"Believing you will have another glass of water doesn't make you a fish tank either. The Bible tells you there is one way. Believe what you like." Originaly posted by new guy

I have many grievances with this statement so Ill break it into parts

1. Believing you will have another glass of water doesn't make you a fish tank either.

The same could be said for you With your "Oh I have a relationship with christ and your a Catholic so your going to hell and Im going to heaven." You can say it as much as you want, it doesn't make it true. You can regurgitate all of the things your mommy and daddy and reverend poked into you when you were five and it still wont mean jack. NEXT

2. The Bible tells you there is one way.

So do alot of holy books and you know what, that one fucking way is different in all of them. Also why are you putting all of your faith in an ancient book that has been translated, edited, interpreted, has had entire books removed from it and has been generaly raped sideways since its creation. You are probably refering to the king james version as the "Original text" but in the end it is a VERSION Last but not least

3. Believe what you like

If you want me to believe what I like than what the hell is this arguement about. I like to believe that Catholocism is a denomination of Christianity. Islamic like to believe in Allah. You seem to like thinking that everone but you is going to hell.
live and let live

 

[jimnyc]

Deaddude, do you know Palestinian Jew by some chance?

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by deaddude

1. Believing you will have another glass of water doesn't make you a fish tank either.

The same could be said for you With your "Oh I have a relationship with christ and your a Catholic so your going to hell and Im going to heaven." You can say it as much as you want, it doesn't make it true.

Actually, I said what the Bible says: a relationship with Christ is the only way. THAT makes it true.

You can regurgitate all of the things your mommy and daddy and reverend poked into you when you were five and it still wont mean jack. NEXT

:cof:

You are right. They don't believe and I didn't either until 11 years ago. In fact, I would say they are on par with you, apparently.

2. The Bible tells you there is one way.

So do alot of holy books and you know what, that one fucking way is different in all of them. Also why are you putting all of your faith in an ancient book that has been translated, edited, interpreted, has had entire books removed from it and has been generaly raped sideways since its creation. You are probably refering to the king james version as the "Original text" but in the end it is a VERSION Last but not least

Actually, no. Hebrew and Greek are original. -But then, you wouldn't know that. By the way, Biblical prophecy makes the Bible what it claims. You wouldn't know that either. Name just ONE "holy" book that can make the same proven claim.

3. Believe what you like

If you want me to believe what I like than what the hell is this arguement about. I like to believe that Catholocism is a denomination of Christianity. Islamic like to believe in Allah. You seem to like thinking that everone but you is going to hell.
live and let live

I believe the Bible. I believe Christ. If He says that you have to believe in Him and have that relationship with Him, then thats the way it goes. It would appear you have a problem with moral and ethical standards and absolutes. This clouds your judgement and leads you down the path of moral relativism.

Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess.

 

[deaddude]

"Deaddude, do you know Palestinian Jew by some chance?"
originaly posted by Jimnyc


I read his posts but no I dont know him personally if thats what you mean.

From what I gather from his post he is a Catholic, from my post you might assume that I am as well but the answer to this is also no. I am an agnostic.

Why do you ask?


Also new guy your attachment to ad hoc arguement is noted. Oh sorry to use your style of attack but you wouldnt know what ad hoc means. Also the original texts werent in hebrew or greek. They were in Arimaic, and some of the oldest surviving versions are in Coptic.


"I believe the Bible. I believe Christ. If He says that you have to believe in Him and have that relationship with Him, then thats the way it goes. It would appear you have a problem with moral and ethical standards and absolutes. This clouds your judgement and leads you down the path of moral relativism.

Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess."
originaly posted by new guy

I think this is your response to my statement about your quote "believe what you want" well Ill point out that you didnt say "believe what I want you to believe" now you are attacking me for stateing my beliefs after telling me to beleive what I want to. Hypocracy in the air.

Also just because I disagree with you does not mean I "have a problem with moral and ethical standards and absolutes."

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by deaddude
"Deaddude, do you know Palestinian Jew by some chance?"
originaly posted by Jimnyc


I read his posts but no I dont know him personally if thats what you mean.

From what I gather from his post he is a Catholic, from my post you might assume that I am as well but the answer to this is also no. I am an agnostic.

Why do you ask?

Because your IP address is 100% identical to his. You don't know him personally, you just happen to be using the exact same computer to post from.

 

[NewGuy]

Planes aren't the bad thing , religious fanatics are . Why would I want you to have access to the cocpit , what are you going to do in an emergency?

Ummm.....does that even matter here?

Newguy:
"You are right. It robs me of HOURS of productive time with family, reading, working, and bettering myself. It also robs me of relaxation as the frequency of colors across a picture tube incite a relaxation subliminally which is more powerful than sleep. This causes the mind to become more exhausted yet addicted to the tube's effects. Combined with subliminal programming in advertisements and such, not to mention animators producing kid's shows who admittedly put in graphic content to just "have fun" with between-frame technology, I really DO rob myself of some miraculous effects.

And to think I could spend 30-70 dollars on it."


you:
Most tvs in today's world have channel selectors . You aren't forced to watch anything . You can also eliminate those awful commercials . What kind of tv do you watch ? I have never been put to sleep while watching television . . . wait , I need to amend that , Billy Graham put me to sleep while trying to drum up more money for his ministry. Subliminal programming? As long as you wear that tin foil hat they won't get you .

If you knew anything about technology, or the brain you would know how stupid you sound.

"You don't read much."


I actually read a great deal , mostly books on improving my skills as an illustrator and photographer , resource books on travel (yes , I do fly in those big metal tubes) , informative books on wildlife and nature in general .

Wow, that sure sounds like it betters your character and understanding of the world around you.

"Anything can be interpreted any which way a person wants, that doesn't make it fact, nor correct. That also does not make the text bad.

Many people all over the world, many not knowing each other and across many generations wrote the Bible."


So what , it has also been changed by whomever was ruling at the time .

Smart statement. Original Hebrew and Greek texts haven't changed.

"He created the thoughts. They made their way to original Greek and Hebrew. Everything from there was man. Don't blame God for man's shortcomings. Verify your perspective against original text.
Again, see above. If what a person believes is in line with orignal text, then it is right."


Again , you place a lot of faith in what you think is original text , how do you know what is original text?

Ummm.....that has never been in dispute world wide. At least gain some insight to the topic BEFORE debate.

"Awful writers don't produce prophecy hundreds of years in advance with names and sequences of events listed in order. This is inspired by God."

No they produce writings that put one to sleep within the first paragraph .

So, that disqualifies the Bible? Nice answer.

"Yet you would treat your dog that way, I bet."


Actually the 4 dogs I have had in the past were treated at least as well as humans . They stayed in my house with me most of the time , they had their own couches , and I took them for long runs everyday . They were all Afghan Hounds , very independent , not robot dogs . You lose the bet.

Actually, I win. Nobody claimed humans to have to be robots to be Christians. You lose by default.

"Fine, where is your relationship with Christ? "

What exactly does that mean ? Are you asking if I talk to Christ? What is a relationship with Christ ?

Hence the whole discussion with you being pointless. Try it, you will understand that which you oppose for once.

"Eternity is longer than 120 years. It might be worth checking out a relationship with Christ. "


Is that a threat , nothing like religions based on threats .
I don't know what having a relationship with Christ means .

No, that is a promise by Christ Himself.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Dishonest libs. Sickening.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by deaddude
"Deaddude, do you know Palestinian Jew by some chance?"
originaly posted by Jimnyc


I read his posts but no I dont know him personally if thats what you mean.

From what I gather from his post he is a Catholic, from my post you might assume that I am as well but the answer to this is also no. I am an agnostic.

Why do you ask?

An agnostic catholic. That was obvious from the start.

 

[Avatar4321]

Originally posted by clumzgirl
This is just more confirmation that Muslims want to take over the world, by force if necessary. I realize the Christians waged the Crusades, but centuries ago. It is scary that in today's world, the battle for souls is so violent. And groups like the ACLU better wake up and smell the stinking blood. You can bet it'll be the second organization (after the Christian religion) to be abolished when the US becomes a Muslim State. I know I sound like Chicken Little, but sometimes I wonder if this is the beginning of the end.

I always have to point out that there wouldnt have been any crusades if the Turks hadnt been invading Europe. They would have happened regardless if Christianity existed or not.