Shusha
Gold Member
- Dec 14, 2015
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Of course, you "got to stop me". You hold the same sense of Palestinian identity. It is simply a movement formed around the idea of denying the Jewish people (rights, history, homeland, indigeneity, self-determination). It has no substance outside of that. That is the problem.You see, this is where we got to stop you.
Eretz Israel is the homeland of the entire collective of the Jewish people. This is absolutely indisputable. If you dig in the land, you find Jewish history and Jewish culture. The location of their dispossession and diaspora is irrelevant.Palestine is not the homeland of European Jews.
A people can not "settle" their own homeland. That is called return. Israel is the return to and decolonization of the Jewish people in their homeland.It's a settler state.
Yes. In particular, there were TWO distinct collectives of peoples on that land: the Jewish people (as evidenced by their cultural markers including language, religious beliefs, holidays, and other) and the Arabic people (as evidenced by their cultural markers including language, religious beliefs, holidays, and other).There were people on that land, they had been there for centuries.
You are conflating personal title to land with collective rights to self-determination and sovereignty. The fact that your great-grandparents no longer live in the Lahn Valley in Germany removes their legal right (and the right of all their descendants) to live on that property (assuming they sold it or otherwise legally disposed of it), but that does not affect the legal sovereign claim of Germany to that valley, nor the rights of the German people to self-determination in their homeland.They had no more right to that land than I have, claiming land in the Lahn Valley in Germany that my great-grandparents lived on.
Further, if you carry your argument without hypocrisy, then the "Palestinians" in diaspora, since they no longer live on that land, have no rights to that territory, and no right to live there. An argument that "European Palestinian" descendants have a right to return in perpetuity, while "European Jewish" descendants have no such right is a blatant double-standard. And notice how people who hold this double standard never bring up all the other Jewish people in diaspora.
Well, that would be the Israelis.The people who live there now ... have the right to that land.
Again. You are conflating individual rights with collective rights. The fact that your family stopped speaking German, intermarried, and built lives in other countries does not remove the collective right of self-determination from the German people in the German homeland.In the decades since, people in my family have 1) Stopped Speaking German, 2) Intermarried with non-Germans, and 3) Built lives in another country.
Do you see how ridiculous that sounds?
And, again, carried through without hypocrisy, it would mean that the Palestinians who no longer speak Palestinian, who intermarried, and who have build lives in other countries, have no right to return to a territory, even if that territory is recognized in the international community as a national homeland for a collective of peoples (which, arguably, Palestine is not).
Your entire argument is incoherent, applying different standards where it suits your narrative. Either there is a right to self-determination, or there is not. You can't have it both ways. Either there is a collective right to return, or there is not. You can't have it both ways. Either there is a right to territorial integrity or there is not. You can't have it both ways. Sort it out. Demonstrate how you apply it equally to both sides.
And you did not address my main point. Which is the vision of a Palestinian people in the future which is not built on the destruction of the either the Jewish people or the Jewish state as the ONLY avenue to Palestinians self-determination and sovereignty.