The Cosmological Arguments for God's Existence

[Fort Fun Indiana]

So, lets be crystal clear:

The KALAM argument makes no mention of magical sky daddies, nor is one required for its premises to be true.

And yet, here we see religious people wielding it as support for their magical claims.

So,naturally, it is intellectually correct to respond to them within this context. As I have done with butter cup. Apparently, he is so ashamed of his own magical claims, that he, instead, chooses to lie and say he is not making them.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Craig gets refuted and ACCEPTS refutations at certain points in his debates... and then uses the points that he agreed were debunked...in later debates.

Oh, absolutely. Now, imagine 1000 debates in a row between Craig and Harris, with Craig trotting out the same, debunked arguments in every single one.

And now you have ding.

 

[ding]

"if we identify god with the laws of nature..i..dont see why we need another term for the laws of nature." alexander vilenkin

Because God is the prescriber of the laws of nature. God is no more the laws of nature as a painter is his painting.

Ah, yes, Vilenkin's notion, like Carroll's, amounts to a mathematical construct entailing the law of physics "suspended in nothing" ontologically prior to the existence of the cosmos. G.T. is too stupid to recognize what they're actually describing, and Vilenkin and Carroll are too mired in materialism to put a rational name on what they're describing. Information implies mind.

That may be a part of it. They may also be afraid to express their beliefs to their colleagues.

Either way, it is the realm of philosophy at the point before origin.

But atheists fear the fact that the universe was created.

 

[buttercup]

I never made a claim, one way or the other, on how many things were "uncaused." I merely stated that God is uncaused.

Shameless lie. You said "everything which began to exist". And you believe there is nothing that did not begin to exist, other thn the magical sky daddy.

Therefore, you bekieve there is nothing that did not have a cause, besides the magical sky daddy.

Man, it is hard to have a discussion with someone so willing and ready to be a dishonest little weasel.

You make zero sense. You're emotional, you're angry, and you're really not good at articulating your points.

And you keep conflating the Kalam argument with what I personally believe, when I never even stated on this thread what I personally believe. With the exception of God being eternal. The topic of this thread is the Kalam argument. What is dishonest is to conflate the actual topic with your assumptions about what others believe, and then accuse others of being dishonest when you're the one making strawmen arguments.

 

[ding]

"if we identify god with the laws of nature..i..dont see why we need another term for the laws of nature." alexander vilenkin

Because God is the prescriber of the laws of nature. God is no more the laws of nature as a painter is his painting.

Ah, yes, Vilenkin's notion, like Carroll's, amounts to a mathematical construct entailing the law of physics "suspended in nothing" ontologically prior to the existence of the cosmos. G.T. is too stupid to recognize what they're actually describing, and Vilenkin and Carroll are too mired in materialism to put a rational name on what they're describing. Information implies mind.

I don't usually comment on the intellectual level of the debaters but it's pretty obvious they can't actually make a cogent argument against yours and that's why they are behaving the way they do.

And they don't believe they have religion, lol.

 

[sealybobo]

I didn’t know other people also thought ding was fos. Glad to learn I’m not alone.

Speaking of not being alone..do you think if you sacrificed yourself, to yourself, to appease yourself....for how your self-made garden shed "creation" falling apart.... made you feel....

That you'd consider yourself .....a rational agent?

When you put it that way it sounds crazy.

But when I say it it doesn’t.

God loved man so much that he chose to be born into this world to testify to the truth and sacrifice himself to reconcile justice with mercy.

There it is!

Big deal. Think about all the suffering that happens daily. If he loved us he needs to stop being a deadbeat dad who bounced 2000 years ago.

Exactly!

Its not even in the top 30 worst fates I can think of...let alone would I mind as much knowing that Im all powerful and eternal. One a scale of one... to cry me a river...a guy that has the knowledge that he will live for eternity as the master of everything that will ever exist...calling NOT EVEN one of the worst HUMAN, MORTAL fates you can face a "sacrifice," is like a welfare queen spending her EBT Debit card on Lobster.

Give me a fuckin break.

You can tell him how unimpressed you are when you meet your maker.

Do you really think he will care if you believed in him? He doesn’t sound like a god to me if he’s petty like that. That sounds like something a religion would make up to hook members. And not just believe in a god. You have to believe your ancient fairytales where you claim god visited. And gave his only begotten son, bla bla bla. So not impressed.

But I’m not attacking god. I’m attacking your ancient god stories. Aka lies.

 

[buttercup]

So, lets be crystal clear:

The KALAM argument makes no mention of magical sky daddies, nor is one required for its premises to be true.

And yet, here we see religious people wielding it as support for their magical claims.

So,naturally, it is intellectually correct to respond to them within this context. As I have done with butter cup. Apparently, he is so ashamed of his own magical claims, that he, instead, chooses to lie and say he is not making them.

Did you honestly think I was a "he" all this time, or you just trolling? I'm not a he, and it always amazes me when people think I am. I would think that the feminine username and the cutesy avatars would give that away, but I guess not.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

And you keep conflating the Kalam argument with what I personally believe

Excuse you, that is you doing that, as you present it as support for your beliefs. And this is what, in intellectually correct fashion, I am responding to.

I understand the KALAM argument. I also understand that, if you are now claiming you are only dissecting the KALAM argument and are, in no way, presenting it as support and basis for your beliefs, you are LYING.

So yes, when you wield this argument, you are brining with it the premise that everything but god has a cause. That is a fact. Amd you won't admit it, for whatever reason.

 

[LittleNipper]

Baseless assertions about that which we know not.

So, you don't accept evolution and uniformitarianism because such are based on baseless assertions...

Yeah. Because observing evolution in a lab... under a microscope... having a vast fossil record supporting the widely accepted, peer-reviewed and elevated to Theory claim, highest elevation there is in Science...

is nothing close to what we would call a "base," for an assertion.

aye yaye yaye, the fundies. Its a full moon?

SO, they have observed in a lab under a microscope fruit flies changing into a brand new species? And "peer" review includes Creationist scientists or excludes them as in denial and disagreeable?

 

[badger2]

#347. 'All metaphysical theses (e.g., that there must be a simple substance, an uncaused cause, or a necessary being that is the ground of all contingent beings) can be countered by an antithesis that demonstrates that these theses are incompatible with the constitution of time and space. The antinomies are thus structured around the conflict between a thesis that asserts that there must be an indivisible substance and an antithesis that asserts that there cannot be an indivisible instance since everything is divided by time and space....Even though everything that can be experienced is subjected to time, the principle of noncontradiction ensures Kant that it is possible and legitimate to think an indivisible identity that is exempt from time....Sovereignty is by definition unconditional in the sense that it is not dependent on anything other than itself. In contrast, Derrida argues that the unconditional is the spacing of time that divides every instance in advance and makes it essentially dependent on what is other than itself. What makes X (possible [italics]) is at the same time what makes it (impossible [it.]) for X to be in itself. Such is the minimal formula for the illogical logic of identity that deconstructive reason employs.'
(Haegglund, Radical Atheism, Derrida and Kant)

 

[BreezeWood]

And this is why everyone makes fun of ding the 10 cent charlatan.

I didn’t know other people also thought ding was fos. Glad to learn I’m not alone.

Speaking of not being alone..do you think if you sacrificed yourself, to yourself, to appease yourself....for how your self-made garden shed "creation" falling apart.... made you feel....

That you'd consider yourself .....a rational agent?

When you put it that way it sounds crazy.

But when I say it it doesn’t.

God loved man so much that he chose to be born into this world to testify to the truth and sacrifice himself to reconcile justice with mercy.

Still sounds crazy.

When you're guaranteed eternity as the alpha and omega...there's no loss...its a lossless proposition, sacrifice is impossible without loss. Not to mention the statement "reconcile justice with mercy" is asinine, since theyre not mutually exclusive and therefore dont even require reconciliation.

Oh fuck wait...Im talking to DING.

No wonder its tedious and that every single word of every sentence is fucktarded and wrong.

But he was born into this world and was fully human when he suffered death. Feel free to diminish it if you like but it’s not a sentence I would like to experience.

.

But he was born into this world and was fully human when he suffered death. Feel free to diminish it if you like but it’s not a sentence I would like to experience.

good luck with that sinner ... the experience will be yours.

they could only sacrifice themselves for sins already committed were it a selfsacrifice. however it would not be valid for future sins even if the "original" was removed. being a sinner is what separates christians from the 1st century events to triumph over sin to be admitted to the Everlasting.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Did you honestly think I was a "he" all this time, or you just trolling?

I didn't think about it at all. I had to use a pronoun so that i could get on with my life and get to the end of my sentence. Obviously.

But that was another, adorable little distraction designed only to wear people out.

 

[ding]

Speaking of not being alone..do you think if you sacrificed yourself, to yourself, to appease yourself....for how your self-made garden shed "creation" falling apart.... made you feel....

That you'd consider yourself .....a rational agent?

When you put it that way it sounds crazy.

But when I say it it doesn’t.

God loved man so much that he chose to be born into this world to testify to the truth and sacrifice himself to reconcile justice with mercy.

There it is!

Big deal. Think about all the suffering that happens daily. If he loved us he needs to stop being a deadbeat dad who bounced 2000 years ago.

Exactly!

Its not even in the top 30 worst fates I can think of...let alone would I mind as much knowing that Im all powerful and eternal. One a scale of one... to cry me a river...a guy that has the knowledge that he will live for eternity as the master of everything that will ever exist...calling NOT EVEN one of the worst HUMAN, MORTAL fates you can face a "sacrifice," is like a welfare queen spending her EBT Debit card on Lobster.

Give me a fuckin break.

You can tell him how unimpressed you are when you meet your maker.

Do you really think he will care if you believed in him? He doesn’t sound like a god to me if he’s petty like that. That sounds like something a religion would make up to hook members. And not just believe in a god. You have to believe your ancient fairytales where you claim god visited. And gave his only begotten son, bla bla bla. So not impressed.

But I’m not attacking god. I’m attacking your ancient god stories. Aka lies.

Woah, I never said anything about whether he cared if you believed in him. Where'd you get that from?

I only commented about GT puffing his chest out and telling God off.

 

[sealybobo]

Speaking of not being alone..do you think if you sacrificed yourself, to yourself, to appease yourself....for how your self-made garden shed "creation" falling apart.... made you feel....

That you'd consider yourself .....a rational agent?

When you put it that way it sounds crazy.

But when I say it it doesn’t.

God loved man so much that he chose to be born into this world to testify to the truth and sacrifice himself to reconcile justice with mercy.

There it is!

Big deal. Think about all the suffering that happens daily. If he loved us he needs to stop being a deadbeat dad who bounced 2000 years ago.

Exactly!

Its not even in the top 30 worst fates I can think of...let alone would I mind as much knowing that Im all powerful and eternal. One a scale of one... to cry me a river...a guy that has the knowledge that he will live for eternity as the master of everything that will ever exist...calling NOT EVEN one of the worst HUMAN, MORTAL fates you can face a "sacrifice," is like a welfare queen spending her EBT Debit card on Lobster.

Give me a fuckin break.

You can tell him how unimpressed you are when you meet your maker.

If heshe is real, I'll spit in their face on everyone's behalf for condoning all the things condoned in Mosaic Law, and for being as superficial and self centered as ding on the internet and requiring "worship."

Don’t blame god for ding and jerry Falwell

Ding believes he is a future god in waiting. He will never die, live for the rest of eternity with his grandparents and never get sick sad or mad.

It’s really ridiculous isn’t it?

 

[ding]

I didn’t know other people also thought ding was fos. Glad to learn I’m not alone.

Speaking of not being alone..do you think if you sacrificed yourself, to yourself, to appease yourself....for how your self-made garden shed "creation" falling apart.... made you feel....

That you'd consider yourself .....a rational agent?

When you put it that way it sounds crazy.

But when I say it it doesn’t.

God loved man so much that he chose to be born into this world to testify to the truth and sacrifice himself to reconcile justice with mercy.

Still sounds crazy.

When you're guaranteed eternity as the alpha and omega...there's no loss...its a lossless proposition, sacrifice is impossible without loss. Not to mention the statement "reconcile justice with mercy" is asinine, since theyre not mutually exclusive and therefore dont even require reconciliation.

Oh fuck wait...Im talking to DING.

No wonder its tedious and that every single word of every sentence is fucktarded and wrong.

But he was born into this world and was fully human when he suffered death. Feel free to diminish it if you like but it’s not a sentence I would like to experience.

.

But he was born into this world and was fully human when he suffered death. Feel free to diminish it if you like but it’s not a sentence I would like to experience.

good luck with that sinner ... the experience will be yours.

they could only sacrifice themselves for sins already committed were it a selfsacrifice. however it would not be valid for future sins even if the "original" was removed. being a sinner is what separates christians from the 1st century events to triumph over sin to be admitted to the Everlasting.

Thanks. We'll see. I'm pretty certain you aren't God and don't speak for him though.

 

[ding]

When you put it that way it sounds crazy.

But when I say it it doesn’t.

God loved man so much that he chose to be born into this world to testify to the truth and sacrifice himself to reconcile justice with mercy.

There it is!

Big deal. Think about all the suffering that happens daily. If he loved us he needs to stop being a deadbeat dad who bounced 2000 years ago.

Exactly!

Its not even in the top 30 worst fates I can think of...let alone would I mind as much knowing that Im all powerful and eternal. One a scale of one... to cry me a river...a guy that has the knowledge that he will live for eternity as the master of everything that will ever exist...calling NOT EVEN one of the worst HUMAN, MORTAL fates you can face a "sacrifice," is like a welfare queen spending her EBT Debit card on Lobster.

Give me a fuckin break.

You can tell him how unimpressed you are when you meet your maker.

If heshe is real, I'll spit in their face on everyone's behalf for condoning all the things condoned in Mosaic Law, and for being as superficial and self centered as ding on the internet and requiring "worship."

Don’t blame god for ding and jerry Falwell

Ding believes he is a future god in waiting. He will never die, live for the rest of eternity with his grandparents and never get sick sad or mad.

It’s really ridiculous isn’t it?

Me? No way. I'm just some guy on a computer. Nothing special about me.

 

[G.T.]

When you put it that way it sounds crazy.

But when I say it it doesn’t.

God loved man so much that he chose to be born into this world to testify to the truth and sacrifice himself to reconcile justice with mercy.

There it is!

Big deal. Think about all the suffering that happens daily. If he loved us he needs to stop being a deadbeat dad who bounced 2000 years ago.

Exactly!

Its not even in the top 30 worst fates I can think of...let alone would I mind as much knowing that Im all powerful and eternal. One a scale of one... to cry me a river...a guy that has the knowledge that he will live for eternity as the master of everything that will ever exist...calling NOT EVEN one of the worst HUMAN, MORTAL fates you can face a "sacrifice," is like a welfare queen spending her EBT Debit card on Lobster.

Give me a fuckin break.

You can tell him how unimpressed you are when you meet your maker.

If heshe is real, I'll spit in their face on everyone's behalf for condoning all the things condoned in Mosaic Law, and for being as superficial and self centered as ding on the internet and requiring "worship."

Don’t blame god for ding and jerry Falwell

Ding believes he is a future god in waiting. He will never die, live for the rest of eternity with his grandparents and never get sick sad or mad.

It’s really ridiculous isn’t it?

I dont blame god, Im being internally critical of the belief.

Id have to believe in God to blame him/her/it, for something, and Ive never been presented with a good enough justification to believe in such a thing.

 

[sealybobo]

There it is!

Big deal. Think about all the suffering that happens daily. If he loved us he needs to stop being a deadbeat dad who bounced 2000 years ago.

Exactly!

Its not even in the top 30 worst fates I can think of...let alone would I mind as much knowing that Im all powerful and eternal. One a scale of one... to cry me a river...a guy that has the knowledge that he will live for eternity as the master of everything that will ever exist...calling NOT EVEN one of the worst HUMAN, MORTAL fates you can face a "sacrifice," is like a welfare queen spending her EBT Debit card on Lobster.

Give me a fuckin break.

You can tell him how unimpressed you are when you meet your maker.

If heshe is real, I'll spit in their face on everyone's behalf for condoning all the things condoned in Mosaic Law, and for being as superficial and self centered as ding on the internet and requiring "worship."

Don’t blame god for ding and jerry Falwell

Ding believes he is a future god in waiting. He will never die, live for the rest of eternity with his grandparents and never get sick sad or mad.

It’s really ridiculous isn’t it?

Me? No way. I'm just some guy on a computer. Nothing special about me.

Where do you go when you die?

 

[ding]

I just hope nobody breaks a kids arm or takes out their frustrations on their dog tonight.

 

[badger2]

#373. Ding's contradicts itself: Jesus did ask others what people thought of him. duh