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Again, nice linky showing:
With little fanfare, the Bush administration has installed three solarenergy systems on the grounds of the White House.
Has Obama done anything...?? HMMMM???...
When evaluating the REAL cost of energy one must include the cost of attain that energy (including the cost of making the equipment, or to find the sources of it) as well as the cost of the POLLUTION that using that form of energy.
And it's that second part, the cost of the pollution, where our economics is (I think) missing the real cost of hydrocarbons.
I don't believe exploiting hydrocarbons IS really a cheaper energy source. (easier to find and explot, yes)
I just think that most of their TOTAL costs have as yet not been QUANTIFIED correctly.
What is the cost, for example, of the disaster in the Gulf?
What is the cost, for example, of spewing crap into the air?
We can't quantify those costs very accurately, and mostly we don't want to quantify those costs AT ALL.
There's NO FREE lunch when it comes to producing or tapping energy, folks.
At this point in time the manufacture of green energy requires the use of hydrocarbon based energy.
This is a fascintating thread in the way it reveals the thinking of many of the people on this board. From those like Kookybill, rejecting the whole idea without the slightest knowledge of the technology or it's potential, to those that oppose it on the political grounds, in that it is normally associated with 'liberal environmentalists'.
Then we have the hard headed number crunchers, that right now reject this technology because it cannot show an immediate cost return. In spite of the fact that the cost curve on this power is downward, while that of fossil fuels are ever upward. Even without the externalized costs of fossil fuels.
Then those that are cautiously interested. Those are the people that count. They are not going to pay for something that does not have a return in a reasonable time, but they are not going to reject a new technology on the basis of someone's political perceptions or luddite leanings.
In the last five years, I have seen the costs of solar drop by a factor of five, efficiencies jump from a top of 14% to 24%. In the next five, we will see an even greater increase in efficiency, and a drop of a factor of 3.
All of us have solar in our future, whether as individual installations, or installations by our utilities. The major question is whether we will manufacturing it ourselves, or buying from others.
This is a fascintating thread in the way it reveals the thinking of many of the people on this board. From those like Kookybill, rejecting the whole idea without the slightest knowledge of the technology or it's potential, to those that oppose it on the political grounds, in that it is normally associated with 'liberal environmentalists'.
Then we have the hard headed number crunchers, that right now reject this technology because it cannot show an immediate cost return. In spite of the fact that the cost curve on this power is downward, while that of fossil fuels are ever upward. Even without the externalized costs of fossil fuels.
Then those that are cautiously interested. Those are the people that count. They are not going to pay for something that does not have a return in a reasonable time, but they are not going to reject a new technology on the basis of someone's political perceptions or luddite leanings.
In the last five years, I have seen the costs of solar drop by a factor of five, efficiencies jump from a top of 14% to 24%. In the next five, we will see an even greater increase in efficiency, and a drop of a factor of 3.
This is a fascintating thread in the way it reveals the thinking of many of the people on this board. From those like Kookybill, rejecting the whole idea without the slightest knowledge of the technology or it's potential, to those that oppose it on the political grounds, in that it is normally associated with 'liberal environmentalists'.
Then we have the hard headed number crunchers, that right now reject this technology because it cannot show an immediate cost return. In spite of the fact that the cost curve on this power is downward, while that of fossil fuels are ever upward. Even without the externalized costs of fossil fuels.
Then those that are cautiously interested. Those are the people that count. They are not going to pay for something that does not have a return in a reasonable time, but they are not going to reject a new technology on the basis of someone's political perceptions or luddite leanings.
In the last five years, I have seen the costs of solar drop by a factor of five, efficiencies jump from a top of 14% to 24%. In the next five, we will see an even greater increase in efficiency, and a drop of a factor of 3.
All of us have solar in our future, whether as individual installations, or installations by our utilities. The major question is whether we will manufacturing it ourselves, or buying from others.
LOL s0n.........you post up about 1,000 posts a year on technology this.........technology that...........and its all theoretical bullshit when it gets down to brass tacks.
)
When evaluating the REAL cost of energy one must include the cost of attain that energy (including the cost of making the equipment, or to find the sources of it) as well as the cost of the POLLUTION that using that form of energy.
And it's that second part, the cost of the pollution, where our economics is (I think) missing the real cost of hydrocarbons.
I don't believe exploiting hydrocarbons IS really a cheaper energy source. (easier to find and explot, yes)
I just think that most of their TOTAL costs have as yet not been QUANTIFIED correctly.
What is the cost, for example, of the disaster in the Gulf?
What is the cost, for example, of spewing crap into the air?
We can't quantify those costs very accurately, and mostly we don't want to quantify those costs AT ALL.
There's NO FREE lunch when it comes to producing or tapping energy, folks.
At this point in time the manufacture of green energy requires the use of hydrocarbon based energy.
Well, this is an interesting experiment. As the cost of the cells come down, we will see a lot more of this.
Oregon Solar Highway - Pavement Interactive
The Oregon Solar Highway is the United States' first solar highway project. It is located south of Portland, OR. Energy produced by this facility feeds into the grid during the daytime, while energy flows to the facility at night, in order to power the interchange lights. The same rate is used for the purchase and sale of electricity produced or consumed at the facility, through a purchase agreement with Portland General Electric.
At this point in time the manufacture of green energy requires the use of hydrocarbon based energy.
How did they make all those mirrors and build that tower, magic?
Well, this is an interesting experiment. As the cost of the cells come down, we will see a lot more of this.
Oregon Solar Highway - Pavement Interactive
The Oregon Solar Highway is the United States' first solar highway project. It is located south of Portland, OR. Energy produced by this facility feeds into the grid during the daytime, while energy flows to the facility at night, in order to power the interchange lights. The same rate is used for the purchase and sale of electricity produced or consumed at the facility, through a purchase agreement with Portland General Electric.
HAPPY NOW!!!
Skull, both KissMy and I posted sites where you can buy the panels for $1.20 a watt. Differant sites and sources.
And what about the cost of installation?
Buying the panels is only half the battle.
Why should the cost of installing panels be anymore than installing a roof?
The point is that the material and installation costs should be justified, over time, when your utility costs disappear.
HOWEVER: If this is such a great deal, the why aren't all builders offering new homes with solar panel roofs? As it is, few even offer them as an option.
Solar energy is going to be a trillion dollar market and will create hundreds of thousands of jobs. The Chinese are poised to capture that market. We should not ignore it.
At one time the manufacture of automobiles required parts brought in on horse drawn wagons. Your point is?
Figured out Bush isn't president anymore yet Shaman?
Again, nice linky showing:
With little fanfare, the Bush administration has installed three solarenergy systems on the grounds of the White House.
Has Obama done anything...?? HMMMM???...Yeah.....he's putin' a lil' science-project together.....
"GOLLY, Daddy!!! It looks bigger'n MINE!!!!!"
Again, nice linky showing:
With little fanfare, the Bush administration has installed three solarenergy systems on the grounds of the White House.
Has Obama done anything...?? HMMMM???...Yeah.....he's putin' a lil' science-project together.....
"GOLLY, Daddy!!! It looks bigger'n MINE!!!!!"
