The Folly of "Peace Talks" Talk

[P F Tinmore]

You still have yet to provide with me with an article or document that says "Israel is inside Palestine" or something that suggests that the borders of Israel with Egypt and Jordan are null. The internationally recognized borders. Please show me something that nullifies them, otherwise you statement that "Israel has no borders" is just jibberish (which we all already knew)

Also, where are the agreements of Palestines borders?

Geesh, Palestine's international borders were defined by post WWI treaties just like all of the other countries that were carved out of the defunct Ottoman Empire. That is all undisputed world history. If you don't believe me, look it up for yourself.

Israel signed agreements that call that territory Palestine and that the international borders are Palestinian. Only an agreement with Palestine can change that.

Why do you think borders are part of the peace process? Land and borders cannot change without Palestinian approval. Why do you think the UN could not partition Palestine without the Palestinians approval? If you don't believe me, you can look that up for yourself also.

 

[HistoryBefore67]

You just don't get the whole NEVER BEEN A SOVEREIGN NATION OF PALESTINE IN THE HISTORY OF PLANET EARTH, do you?

Can we get off the tangent of PFT's idiotic theories and back on the actual topic, please?

 

[Hossfly]

You still have yet to provide with me with an article or document that says "Israel is inside Palestine" or something that suggests that the borders of Israel with Egypt and Jordan are null. The internationally recognized borders. Please show me something that nullifies them, otherwise you statement that "Israel has no borders" is just jibberish (which we all already knew)

Also, where are the agreements of Palestines borders?

Geesh, Palestine's international borders were defined by post WWI treaties just like all of the other countries that were carved out of the defunct Ottoman Empire. That is all undisputed world history. If you don't believe me, look it up for yourself.

Israel signed agreements that call that territory Palestine and that the international borders are Palestinian. Only an agreement with Palestine can change that.

Why do you think borders are part of the peace process? Land and borders cannot change without Palestinian approval. Why do you think the UN could not partition Palestine without the Palestinians approval? If you don't believe me, you can look that up for yourself also.

I don't believe it and I ain't looking it up. It's all a fantasy world to you and you better get off it before the boys in the white coats come after you.

 

[toastman]

You still have yet to provide with me with an article or document that says "Israel is inside Palestine" or something that suggests that the borders of Israel with Egypt and Jordan are null. The internationally recognized borders. Please show me something that nullifies them, otherwise you statement that "Israel has no borders" is just jibberish (which we all already knew)

Also, where are the agreements of Palestines borders?

Geesh, Palestine's international borders were defined by post WWI treaties just like all of the other countries that were carved out of the defunct Ottoman Empire. That is all undisputed world history. If you don't believe me, look it up for yourself.

Israel signed agreements that call that territory Palestine and that the international borders are Palestinian. Only an agreement with Palestine can change that.

Why do you think borders are part of the peace process? Land and borders cannot change without Palestinian approval. Why do you think the UN could not partition Palestine without the Palestinians approval? If you don't believe me, you can look that up for yourself also.

Well if this is all undisputed world history, surely you could find me some documents or articles that show it. So far, you've been ducking the question, because, it's not true.
Why would you ask me to look it up ??? I already did, and I can't find any truth in what you posted

 

[toastman]

You still have yet to provide with me with an article or document that says "Israel is inside Palestine" or something that suggests that the borders of Israel with Egypt and Jordan are null. The internationally recognized borders. Please show me something that nullifies them, otherwise you statement that "Israel has no borders" is just jibberish (which we all already knew)

Also, where are the agreements of Palestines borders?

Geesh, Palestine's international borders were defined by post WWI treaties just like all of the other countries that were carved out of the defunct Ottoman Empire. That is all undisputed world history. If you don't believe me, look it up for yourself.

Israel signed agreements that call that territory Palestine and that the international borders are Palestinian. Only an agreement with Palestine can change that.

Why do you think borders are part of the peace process? Land and borders cannot change without Palestinian approval. Why do you think the UN could not partition Palestine without the Palestinians approval? If you don't believe me, you can look that up for yourself also.

You've made this claim several times without any references.
Since the Palestinians never had any sovereignty over the land, your claim is completely false.
Israel has land and borders that are internationally recognized and they are a member of the U.N.

 

[P F Tinmore]

You still have yet to provide with me with an article or document that says "Israel is inside Palestine" or something that suggests that the borders of Israel with Egypt and Jordan are null. The internationally recognized borders. Please show me something that nullifies them, otherwise you statement that "Israel has no borders" is just jibberish (which we all already knew)

Also, where are the agreements of Palestines borders?

Geesh, Palestine's international borders were defined by post WWI treaties just like all of the other countries that were carved out of the defunct Ottoman Empire. That is all undisputed world history. If you don't believe me, look it up for yourself.

Israel signed agreements that call that territory Palestine and that the international borders are Palestinian. Only an agreement with Palestine can change that.

Why do you think borders are part of the peace process? Land and borders cannot change without Palestinian approval. Why do you think the UN could not partition Palestine without the Palestinians approval? If you don't believe me, you can look that up for yourself also.

You've made this claim several times without any references.
Since the Palestinians never had any sovereignty over the land, your claim is completely false.
Israel has land and borders that are internationally recognized and they are a member of the U.N.

To acquire land that is not yours requires military force.
The acquisition of land by force is illegal.

You should know that.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore; et al,

I'm confused again.

To acquire land that is not yours requires military force.
The acquisition of land by force is illegal.

You should know that.

(QUESTION)

Who acquired what land by force? And who did they use this force against?

v/r
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore; et al,

I'm confused again.

To acquire land that is not yours requires military force.
The acquisition of land by force is illegal.

You should know that.

(QUESTION)

Who acquired what land by force? And who did they use this force against?

v/r
R

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYvimRnlTqE]Alnakba English P2 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[HistoryBefore67]

Land and borders cannot change without Palestinian approval.

Okay, Mr. "Lives in his own little world," let's say that one were to buy your hypothesis...

How would one seek to obtain "approval" from the "Palestinians"?

Would you call the PA?

Would you call Hamas?

What if we're not talking about today but, rather, are talking about 1948.

Who would you call?

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore; et al,

I watched your al Jazeera video. I might have seen it before, it is familiar.

Land and borders cannot change without Palestinian approval.

(COMMENT)

Of course you know that I strongly disagree. The Mandate was not Arab Palestinian to control or have any authority over. The sovereignty was terminated by Turkey and relinquished to the Allied Powers.

The Jewish Agency, under the accepted practices of the day, declared independence, following the GA Resolution 181(II) and accepted the partition. No force of arms was used. Right of self-determination.

Recognition was granted.

Force came into play, when the Arab Palestinian, in coalition with five (5) Arab States, attacked the State of Israel. The Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) and the Arab League broke the peace and invaded Israel.

Israel used that force necessary to defend itself from HoAP/Arab League attack under the rule of self-defense.

It was the HoAP/Arab League that was attempting to use force to acquire land that was not theirs to rule. Ever since that attempt failed, the HoAP/Arab League have been claiming foul.

The HoAP/Arab League had no authority to establish any borders pertaining to the Mandate. Those borders where exclusively left to the Allied Power to determine by Treaty (Article 95 Treaty of Sevres). The HoAP/Arab League had no standing to over rule, alter or change the Convention, Treaty or Mandate.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore; et al,

I watched your al Jazeera video. I might have seen it before, it is familiar.

Land and borders cannot change without Palestinian approval.

(COMMENT)

Of course you know that I strongly disagree. The Mandate was not Arab Palestinian to control or have any authority over. The sovereignty was terminated by Turkey and relinquished to the Allied Powers.

Of course you do. It does not match what Israel told you.

The League of Nations Covenant says different but go ahead and keep running with that.

The Jewish Agency, under the accepted practices of the day, declared independence, following the GA Resolution 181(II) and accepted the partition. No force of arms was used. Right of self-determination.

The Jewish agency was a foreign organization. It declared independence inside Palestine through the force of arms, against the will of the people without acquiring any land or defining any borders.

Resolution 181 was never implemented. It transferred no land, established no borders, and created no state. Why do you keep bringing it up?

Recognition was granted.

Force came into play, when the Arab Palestinian, in coalition with five (5) Arab States, attacked the State of Israel. The Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) and the Arab League broke the peace and invaded Israel.

Israel used that force necessary to defend itself from HoAP/Arab League attack under the rule of self-defense.

About 300,000 Palestinians were expelled and hundreds of Palestinian villages were destroyed before any Arab state entered Palestine.

Israel calls this a defensive war.

It was the HoAP/Arab League that was attempting to use force to acquire land that was not theirs to rule. Ever since that attempt failed, the HoAP/Arab League have been claiming foul.

The HoAP/Arab League had no authority to establish any borders pertaining to the Mandate. Those borders where exclusively left to the Allied Power to determine by Treaty (Article 95 Treaty of Sevres). The HoAP/Arab League had no standing to over rule, alter or change the Convention, Treaty or Mandate.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[toastman]

P F Tinmore; et al,

I watched your al Jazeera video. I might have seen it before, it is familiar.

Land and borders cannot change without Palestinian approval.

(COMMENT)

Of course you know that I strongly disagree. The Mandate was not Arab Palestinian to control or have any authority over. The sovereignty was terminated by Turkey and relinquished to the Allied Powers.

Of course you do. It does not match what Israel told you.

The League of Nations Covenant says different but go ahead and keep running with that.



The Jewish agency was a foreign organization. It declared independence inside Palestine through the force of arms, against the will of the people without acquiring any land or defining any borders.

Resolution 181 was never implemented. It transferred no land, established no borders, and created no state. Why do you keep bringing it up?

Recognition was granted.

Force came into play, when the Arab Palestinian, in coalition with five (5) Arab States, attacked the State of Israel. The Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) and the Arab League broke the peace and invaded Israel.

Israel used that force necessary to defend itself from HoAP/Arab League attack under the rule of self-defense.

About 300,000 Palestinians were expelled and hundreds of Palestinian villages were destroyed before any Arab state entered Palestine.

Israel calls this a defensive war.

It was the HoAP/Arab League that was attempting to use force to acquire land that was not theirs to rule. Ever since that attempt failed, the HoAP/Arab League have been claiming foul.

The HoAP/Arab League had no authority to establish any borders pertaining to the Mandate. Those borders where exclusively left to the Allied Power to determine by Treaty (Article 95 Treaty of Sevres). The HoAP/Arab League had no standing to over rule, alter or change the Convention, Treaty or Mandate.

Most Respectfully,
R

So much wrong with this post Tinmore. Where do I start ???
Where did you read that they declared Independence through force of arms?? Provide a link .
The reason why he keeps bringing up U.N Resolution 181 is because when Israel declared Independence, they claimed the land that was allotted to them in that resolution (the partition). Nowhere does it say, and I mean nowhere, that land had to be transferred to the Jews in order for them to create a state. Their independence was RECOGNIZED INTERNATIONALLY and by the U.N . And remember, the Palestinian Arabs did NOT, I repeat, DID NOT have sovereignty over any of the territory known at the time as Palestine or the Mandate of Palestine. Owning land and living on it is NOT THE SAME as having sovereignty over the land.
Then there's you claim that 300 000 Palestinian Arabs were expelled by the ISraelis. Another LIE. Yes, some were expelled , but the number you came up with is just massive exaggeration (which is commonly used in Arab propaganda to vilify Israel and gain sympathy for the Palestinians) .
And once again, you've provided zero links or citations for any of the claims you keep making.
Stop making shit up.

 

[toastman]

Another thing is , Arab villages were destroyed AFTER the Arab states invaded, not before. Another Tinmore lie.
You must be extremely bitter towards Israel to continuously make up bullshit claims like this.

So, can you provide ANY references for what you keep claiming????
My guess is no !

 

[toastman]

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore; et al,

I watched your al Jazeera video. I might have seen it before, it is familiar.


(COMMENT)

Of course you know that I strongly disagree. The Mandate was not Arab Palestinian to control or have any authority over. The sovereignty was terminated by Turkey and relinquished to the Allied Powers.

Of course you do. It does not match what Israel told you.

The League of Nations Covenant says different but go ahead and keep running with that.



The Jewish agency was a foreign organization. It declared independence inside Palestine through the force of arms, against the will of the people without acquiring any land or defining any borders.

Resolution 181 was never implemented. It transferred no land, established no borders, and created no state. Why do you keep bringing it up?



About 300,000 Palestinians were expelled and hundreds of Palestinian villages were destroyed before any Arab state entered Palestine.

Israel calls this a defensive war.

It was the HoAP/Arab League that was attempting to use force to acquire land that was not theirs to rule. Ever since that attempt failed, the HoAP/Arab League have been claiming foul.

The HoAP/Arab League had no authority to establish any borders pertaining to the Mandate. Those borders where exclusively left to the Allied Power to determine by Treaty (Article 95 Treaty of Sevres). The HoAP/Arab League had no standing to over rule, alter or change the Convention, Treaty or Mandate.

Most Respectfully,
R

So much wrong with this post Tinmore. Where do I start ???
Where did you read that they declared Independence through force of arms?? Provide a link .
The reason why he keeps bringing up U.N Resolution 181 is because when Israel declared Independence, they claimed the land that was allotted to them in that resolution (the partition). Nowhere does it say, and I mean nowhere, that land had to be transferred to the Jews in order for them to create a state. Their independence was RECOGNIZED INTERNATIONALLY and by the U.N . And remember, the Palestinian Arabs did NOT, I repeat, DID NOT have sovereignty over any of the territory known at the time as Palestine or the Mandate of Palestine. Owning land and living on it is NOT THE SAME as having sovereignty over the land.
Then there's you claim that 300 000 Palestinian Arabs were expelled by the ISraelis. Another LIE. Yes, some were expelled , but the number you came up with is just massive exaggeration (which is commonly used in Arab propaganda to vilify Israel and gain sympathy for the Palestinians) .
And once again, you've provided zero links or citations for any of the claims you keep making.
Stop making shit up.

The reason why he keeps bringing up U.N Resolution 181 is because when Israel declared Independence, they claimed the land that was allotted to them in that resolution (the partition).

Another Israeli lie.

Israel's military attack on Palestine had already blown past those proposed borders before any Arab country entered Palestine.

Israel did not honor any part of resolution 181.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore; et al,

I watched your al Jazeera video. I might have seen it before, it is familiar.


(COMMENT)

Of course you know that I strongly disagree. The Mandate was not Arab Palestinian to control or have any authority over. The sovereignty was terminated by Turkey and relinquished to the Allied Powers.

Of course you do. It does not match what Israel told you.

The League of Nations Covenant says different but go ahead and keep running with that.



The Jewish agency was a foreign organization. It declared independence inside Palestine through the force of arms, against the will of the people without acquiring any land or defining any borders.

Resolution 181 was never implemented. It transferred no land, established no borders, and created no state. Why do you keep bringing it up?



About 300,000 Palestinians were expelled and hundreds of Palestinian villages were destroyed before any Arab state entered Palestine.

Israel calls this a defensive war.

It was the HoAP/Arab League that was attempting to use force to acquire land that was not theirs to rule. Ever since that attempt failed, the HoAP/Arab League have been claiming foul.

The HoAP/Arab League had no authority to establish any borders pertaining to the Mandate. Those borders where exclusively left to the Allied Power to determine by Treaty (Article 95 Treaty of Sevres). The HoAP/Arab League had no standing to over rule, alter or change the Convention, Treaty or Mandate.

Most Respectfully,
R

So much wrong with this post Tinmore. Where do I start ???
Where did you read that they declared Independence through force of arms?? Provide a link .
The reason why he keeps bringing up U.N Resolution 181 is because when Israel declared Independence, they claimed the land that was allotted to them in that resolution (the partition). Nowhere does it say, and I mean nowhere, that land had to be transferred to the Jews in order for them to create a state. Their independence was RECOGNIZED INTERNATIONALLY and by the U.N . And remember, the Palestinian Arabs did NOT, I repeat, DID NOT have sovereignty over any of the territory known at the time as Palestine or the Mandate of Palestine. Owning land and living on it is NOT THE SAME as having sovereignty over the land.
Then there's you claim that 300 000 Palestinian Arabs were expelled by the ISraelis. Another LIE. Yes, some were expelled , but the number you came up with is just massive exaggeration (which is commonly used in Arab propaganda to vilify Israel and gain sympathy for the Palestinians) .
And once again, you've provided zero links or citations for any of the claims you keep making.
Stop making shit up.

Nowhere does it say, and I mean nowhere, that land had to be transferred to the Jews in order for them to create a state.

Not true.

The state as a person of international law should possess the following qualifications: (a) a permanent population; (b) a defined territory; (c) government; and (d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states.

A basic point should be emphasized: Article 1 is qualified by Article 11 because it prohibits using military force to gain recognition of sovereignty.

However, as a restatement of customary international law, the Montevideo Convention merely codified existing legal norms and its principles and therefore does not apply merely to the signatories, but to all subjects of international law as a whole.

Montevideo Convention - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[toastman]

What does that have to do with anything ?

You still did not prove any of your claims. You just keep repeating the same drivel.

 

[toastman]

Of course you do. It does not match what Israel told you.

The League of Nations Covenant says different but go ahead and keep running with that.



The Jewish agency was a foreign organization. It declared independence inside Palestine through the force of arms, against the will of the people without acquiring any land or defining any borders.

Resolution 181 was never implemented. It transferred no land, established no borders, and created no state. Why do you keep bringing it up?



About 300,000 Palestinians were expelled and hundreds of Palestinian villages were destroyed before any Arab state entered Palestine.

Israel calls this a defensive war.

So much wrong with this post Tinmore. Where do I start ???
Where did you read that they declared Independence through force of arms?? Provide a link .
The reason why he keeps bringing up U.N Resolution 181 is because when Israel declared Independence, they claimed the land that was allotted to them in that resolution (the partition). Nowhere does it say, and I mean nowhere, that land had to be transferred to the Jews in order for them to create a state. Their independence was RECOGNIZED INTERNATIONALLY and by the U.N . And remember, the Palestinian Arabs did NOT, I repeat, DID NOT have sovereignty over any of the territory known at the time as Palestine or the Mandate of Palestine. Owning land and living on it is NOT THE SAME as having sovereignty over the land.
Then there's you claim that 300 000 Palestinian Arabs were expelled by the ISraelis. Another LIE. Yes, some were expelled , but the number you came up with is just massive exaggeration (which is commonly used in Arab propaganda to vilify Israel and gain sympathy for the Palestinians) .
And once again, you've provided zero links or citations for any of the claims you keep making.
Stop making shit up.

The reason why he keeps bringing up U.N Resolution 181 is because when Israel declared Independence, they claimed the land that was allotted to them in that resolution (the partition).

Another Israeli lie.

Israel's military attack on Palestine had already blown past those proposed borders before any Arab country entered Palestine.

Israel did not honor any part of resolution 181.

LIE ! Show me a link that says Israel attacked before the Arabs attacked.

 

[P F Tinmore]

So much wrong with this post Tinmore. Where do I start ???
Where did you read that they declared Independence through force of arms?? Provide a link .
The reason why he keeps bringing up U.N Resolution 181 is because when Israel declared Independence, they claimed the land that was allotted to them in that resolution (the partition). Nowhere does it say, and I mean nowhere, that land had to be transferred to the Jews in order for them to create a state. Their independence was RECOGNIZED INTERNATIONALLY and by the U.N . And remember, the Palestinian Arabs did NOT, I repeat, DID NOT have sovereignty over any of the territory known at the time as Palestine or the Mandate of Palestine. Owning land and living on it is NOT THE SAME as having sovereignty over the land.
Then there's you claim that 300 000 Palestinian Arabs were expelled by the ISraelis. Another LIE. Yes, some were expelled , but the number you came up with is just massive exaggeration (which is commonly used in Arab propaganda to vilify Israel and gain sympathy for the Palestinians) .
And once again, you've provided zero links or citations for any of the claims you keep making.
Stop making shit up.

The reason why he keeps bringing up U.N Resolution 181 is because when Israel declared Independence, they claimed the land that was allotted to them in that resolution (the partition).

Another Israeli lie.

Israel's military attack on Palestine had already blown past those proposed borders before any Arab country entered Palestine.

Israel did not honor any part of resolution 181.

LIE ! Show me a link that says Israel attacked before the Arabs attacked.

Did the Palestinians go to Europe to attack the Zionists, or was it the Zionists who went to Palestine to take over their country?

It is simply a matter of history.

 

[toastman]

Another Israeli lie.

Israel's military attack on Palestine had already blown past those proposed borders before any Arab country entered Palestine.

Israel did not honor any part of resolution 181.

LIE ! Show me a link that says Israel attacked before the Arabs attacked.

Did the Palestinians go to Europe to attack the Zionists, or was it the Zionists who went to Palestine to take over their country?

It is simply a matter of history.

More of the same lies that Rocco and I have disproved several times.

Palestine was not a country, but a Geographical Region

The Zionists did not come to take over Palestine, they were invited by the British. Not only did they encourage European Jews to come, but they also facilitated it.
You already know that the Palestinians did not have sovereignty over the region of Palestine.

Now back to you claim that the Israeli military attacked past the territory allotted to them in the partition plan, are you going to provide evidence or will you continue to duck the question???

It's a known fact that the DAY AFTER ISRAEL DECLARED INDEPENDENCE in the land allotted to them in the partition plan, the Arab neighbors invaded and tried to drive the Jews to the sea. Unless you can prove otherwise ??