CDZ The Hidden History of the La Raza or Chicano Movement

[JimBowie1958]

Cezar Chavez was a brilliant man who wanted what was best for his people. He was also a very kind man and humble as well as strong. Decent, determined, peaceful whenever possible. His daughter Eloise was one of my very few friends in school. I lost touch with her long ago but still think of her even today.

Yeah, I get that impression as well from what I have read. The people that say he was a radical MArxist, etc, I think are placing the wrong emphasis on the events of his life.

“La raza” was a source of pride for many Latinos, the most militant of whom adopted the motto: “Por la raza todo, fuera de la raza nada” — “For the race, everything, outside the race, nothing.” But it drew resistance from many leaders who sought a place for their people within the broader American society. Cesar Chavez was one of the most outspoken critics.

“I hear about la raza more and more,” Chavez told biographer Peter Matthiessen. “Some people don’t look at it as racism, but when you say ‘la raza,’ you are saying an anti-gringo thing, and our fear is that it won’t stop there. Today it’s anti-gringo, tomorrow it will be anti-Negro, and the day after it will be anti-Filipino, anti-Puerto Rican. And then it will be anti-poor-Mexican, and anti-darker-skinned Mexican.”

 

[JimBowie1958]

The Euros invaded México in 1520. Look around any city or town on México and you can see that the Americanos won. Now the victorious raza is invading el Norte to take back the territory seized illegally in 1848.

IT was agreed to by treaty so there was nothing illegal about it.

It took four centuries to recapture México south of the Río Grande. The northern territories won't take even half as long. La venganza won't be pretty, Smart gringos will emigrage to Israel while there is still time.

Lol, come and take it, dude.

We don't have to come and take it, pendejo, we are already here and controling key urban centers. If we didn't slaughter your beef for you, you wouldn't be able to have your stinking Big Mac for breakfast. The first grade of your public schools is already majority non-white. In a generation we will outvote you and then your drug addicted, ADHD kids will see the revenge of the black, brown and red Americans. Your dinky pistola tucked into your Depends won't help you then because we will control the army and police. Your grandchidren will be picking stoop crops for their Chinese bosses while we amuse ourselves with the few pretty ones left, Puta tu madre

Good luck with that...you've defeated the Pajama boys of America.
Your next test wont be so easy. Puta......

Unless you want the thread killed, please dont engage in race baiting with the provocateurs in the Clean Debate Forum..

 

[JimH52]

You stupid dumb arses just won't give it up until you end up getting 0% of the Hispanic vote. You soooo deserve Donnie!

 

[JimBowie1958]

You stupid dumb arses just won't give it up until you end up getting 0% of the Hispanic vote. You soooo deserve Donnie!

The facts are the facts, and why dont you clean up your language here in the CDF?

 

[Gracie]

Cezar Chavez was a brilliant man who wanted what was best for his people. He was also a very kind man and humble as well as strong. Decent, determined, peaceful whenever possible. His daughter Eloise was one of my very few friends in school. I lost touch with her long ago but still think of her even today.

Yeah, I get that impression as well from what I have read. The people that say he was a radical MArxist, etc, I think are placing the wrong emphasis on the events of his life.

“La raza” was a source of pride for many Latinos, the most militant of whom adopted the motto: “Por la raza todo, fuera de la raza nada” — “For the race, everything, outside the race, nothing.” But it drew resistance from many leaders who sought a place for their people within the broader American society. Cesar Chavez was one of the most outspoken critics.

“I hear about la raza more and more,” Chavez told biographer Peter Matthiessen. “Some people don’t look at it as racism, but when you say ‘la raza,’ you are saying an anti-gringo thing, and our fear is that it won’t stop there. Today it’s anti-gringo, tomorrow it will be anti-Negro, and the day after it will be anti-Filipino, anti-Puerto Rican. And then it will be anti-poor-Mexican, and anti-darker-skinned Mexican.”

Cesar was for farm workers who lived worse than dogs and made farmers extremely wealthy. The conditions were awful and Cesar was not shy to stay silent about it. Hence, calling him everything he was not.

 

[JimBowie1958]

La Raza movement is at its roots fascistic, racist, and it is a stealth movement to reconquer all of North America for the Bronze peoples, i.e. THE RACE and there is no room for whites or blacks on that Bronze Continent.

I haven't yet read the whole OP or the linked content. I have only lept to the conclusion you've drawn based upon it, and that's what I've quoted above. I will read the post and linked content looking for support for the red italicized assertions made in the emboldened text. I don't care if the movement is fascist or racist because:

1. the content should make whether it is or not clear, and
2. upon the content you've provided showing the "movement" is fascist/racist, it'll acquire with me the same status as would any other fascist/racist movement. That is to say, any such movement that aims to achieve something that is problematic is one I'll oppose; such movements that aim to achieve an absurd outcome and/or innocuous outcome is one I won't give a damn about.

In other words, it's important to first understand what the movement seeks to achieve before giving a damn about the tactics -- fascist and/or racist rhetoric -- it will use to achieve its aims.

I dont mean to insult you, but when you have a liberal circle of friends it is often times hard to remain objective.

I wont blame you if you tow the party line, there, 320.

I dug into this topic about ten years ago when I was surprised to learn that one of my history proffs at UTA was a leader in the movement and I was shocked to find out some of the things he had said. I felt betrayed in some strange way and as I dug into what la Raza was I was shocked.

I am simply trying to convey the full meaning of the movement and its historical context.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Cezar Chavez was a brilliant man who wanted what was best for his people. He was also a very kind man and humble as well as strong. Decent, determined, peaceful whenever possible. His daughter Eloise was one of my very few friends in school. I lost touch with her long ago but still think of her even today.

Yeah, I get that impression as well from what I have read. The people that say he was a radical MArxist, etc, I think are placing the wrong emphasis on the events of his life.

“La raza” was a source of pride for many Latinos, the most militant of whom adopted the motto: “Por la raza todo, fuera de la raza nada” — “For the race, everything, outside the race, nothing.” But it drew resistance from many leaders who sought a place for their people within the broader American society. Cesar Chavez was one of the most outspoken critics.

“I hear about la raza more and more,” Chavez told biographer Peter Matthiessen. “Some people don’t look at it as racism, but when you say ‘la raza,’ you are saying an anti-gringo thing, and our fear is that it won’t stop there. Today it’s anti-gringo, tomorrow it will be anti-Negro, and the day after it will be anti-Filipino, anti-Puerto Rican. And then it will be anti-poor-Mexican, and anti-darker-skinned Mexican.”

Cesar was for farm workers who lived worse than dogs and made farmers extremely wealthy. The conditions were awful and Cesar was not shy to stay silent about it. Hence, calling him everything he was not.

That is how the PR game is played, and no ones reputation is safe, no matter who noble or innocent.

 

[Gracie]

Actually, Eloise called herself Chicano. There were different factions...all totally confusing to me...and to her. Kind of like muslims today. Good ones, bad ones, militant ones, tribal ones, kind ones, decent ones...but all are still muslim. Same with hispanics, chicanos, latin americans, etc etc etc. Back then, the "in" thing was to be Chicano.

I went looking for her. I found a pic of her shaking the hand of Obama. I THINK it was her. Hell, last time I saw her, we were in high school. I went thru grammar school with her, and in 8th grade we watched from the school window her dad gathering folks for some kind of parade being planned...which I THINK was the walk he did to Sacramento. We stood side by side, hollering thru the window, giggling and being..well...8th graders.

 

[flacaltenn]

Hey! Time-out.

This is another contentious thread tossed into the CDZ. And it did not make it
past page 2 without SERIOUS issues.

I'm gonna believe that those engaged CAN follow the CDZ rules here and clean up a bit.
But those that can't -- will get ejected.

BTW --- cussing in other languages --- is illegal. So don't make us open a translator.
English only please. (and that is NOT a political statement of any kind)

 

[flacaltenn]

bump.

 

[flacaltenn]

BTW ---- Although I personally don't like the idea of taking controversial threads to the CDZ ---

I think this one can stand if it is limited to the origins and goals of the mentioned movements.
From a debate standpoint -- If you think the characterization by the OP quotes are unfair -- CORRECT them.
And if you think it omits the VALUE of these nationalistic movements -- point out the value.

Don't waste time and time on illegal posts simply objecting to the topic. If it GETS racist -- in either direction -- that would illegal and unfortunate.

FUTURE CDZ threads may be required to meet certain standards. Under discussion in moderation now.
Do NOT reply to this note. PM me if you are unhappy.. Thanks. .

 

[JimBowie1958]

My whole point for posting this here was to avoid the race baiting and provocation that these thread so often get submerged in, and to get some feedback.

I could be wrong and I think the liberals here are up to the challenge to present counter facts.

If I am unfairly misrepresenting la Raza, I wont to know so that I could stop doing it.

I feel fairly cretain that I am not compeltely wrong in mys ummation, but I would not be surprised to find out I am erring on some of the details, nuances and perspective on this movement.

But so far everything has rolled out pretty much as I expected with few counter points. But with only 31 posts, I dont think it has time to be seriously discussed yet.

 

[Asclepias]

My whole point for posting this here was to avoid the race baiting and provocation that these thread so often get submerged in, and to get some feedback.

I could be wrong and I think the liberals here are up to the challenge to present counter facts.

If I am unfairly misrepresenting la Raza, I wont to know so that I could stop doing it.

I feel fairly cretain that I am not compeltely wrong in mys ummation, but I would not be surprised to find out I am erring on some of the details, nuances and perspective on this movement.

But so far everything has rolled out pretty much as I expected with few counter points. But with only 31 posts, I dont think it has time to be seriously discussed yet.

Obviously you dont want to know Jim. I posted proof that La Raza works with Black groups while you were claiming they hated everyone not Chicano. Even worse you never explained or addressed that inconsistency in your claims.

 

[Picaro]

My whole point for posting this here was to avoid the race baiting and provocation that these thread so often get submerged in, and to get some feedback.

I could be wrong and I think the liberals here are up to the challenge to present counter facts.

If I am unfairly misrepresenting la Raza, I wont to know so that I could stop doing it.

I feel fairly cretain that I am not compeltely wrong in mys ummation, but I would not be surprised to find out I am erring on some of the details, nuances and perspective on this movement.

But so far everything has rolled out pretty much as I expected with few counter points. But with only 31 posts, I dont think it has time to be seriously discussed yet.

La Raza, MecHa, ad nauseam is nothing but the Mexican version of the KKK and skinhead gangs. This isn't debatable. The real issue is how one of their members came to be appointed to a Federal court bench, and their various subsidiaries being given Federal ad state funds and grants to finance their hate group agenda.

 

[JimBowie1958]

My whole point for posting this here was to avoid the race baiting and provocation that these thread so often get submerged in, and to get some feedback.

I could be wrong and I think the liberals here are up to the challenge to present counter facts.

If I am unfairly misrepresenting la Raza, I wont to know so that I could stop doing it.

I feel fairly cretain that I am not compeltely wrong in mys ummation, but I would not be surprised to find out I am erring on some of the details, nuances and perspective on this movement.

But so far everything has rolled out pretty much as I expected with few counter points. But with only 31 posts, I dont think it has time to be seriously discussed yet.

La Raza, MecHa, ad nauseam is nothing but the Mexican version of the KKK and skinhead gangs. This isn't debatable. The real issue is how one of their members came to be appointed to a Federal court bench, and their various subsidiaries being given Federal ad state funds and grants to finance their hate group agenda.

Well the evidence looks particularly damning to me, but that is why I am running it by the folks here who should be able to dig up any counter factual data.

The entire Chicano movement and its 'la Raza' off spring are taking their philosophy from a Nazi collaborator and propagandist, so what else could that movement be other than racist and fascist?

 

[Picaro]

My whole point for posting this here was to avoid the race baiting and provocation that these thread so often get submerged in, and to get some feedback.

I could be wrong and I think the liberals here are up to the challenge to present counter facts.

If I am unfairly misrepresenting la Raza, I wont to know so that I could stop doing it.

I feel fairly cretain that I am not compeltely wrong in mys ummation, but I would not be surprised to find out I am erring on some of the details, nuances and perspective on this movement.

But so far everything has rolled out pretty much as I expected with few counter points. But with only 31 posts, I dont think it has time to be seriously discussed yet.

La Raza, MecHa, ad nauseam is nothing but the Mexican version of the KKK and skinhead gangs. This isn't debatable. The real issue is how one of their members came to be appointed to a Federal court bench, and their various subsidiaries being given Federal ad state funds and grants to finance their hate group agenda.

Well the evidence looks particularly damning to me, but that is why I am running it by the folks here who should be able to dig up any counter factual data.

The entire Chicano movement and its 'la Raza' off spring are taking their philosophy from a Nazi collaborator and propagandist, so what else could that movement be other than racist and fascist?

Yes. The modern vermin accretions are 180 degrees from the earlier movements begun in the late 1940's and 1950's, including Cesar Chavez's and their battles against both growers and the Teamsters.

 

[JimBowie1958]

My whole point for posting this here was to avoid the race baiting and provocation that these thread so often get submerged in, and to get some feedback.

I could be wrong and I think the liberals here are up to the challenge to present counter facts.

If I am unfairly misrepresenting la Raza, I wont to know so that I could stop doing it.

I feel fairly cretain that I am not compeltely wrong in mys ummation, but I would not be surprised to find out I am erring on some of the details, nuances and perspective on this movement.

But so far everything has rolled out pretty much as I expected with few counter points. But with only 31 posts, I dont think it has time to be seriously discussed yet.

La Raza, MecHa, ad nauseam is nothing but the Mexican version of the KKK and skinhead gangs. This isn't debatable. The real issue is how one of their members came to be appointed to a Federal court bench, and their various subsidiaries being given Federal ad state funds and grants to finance their hate group agenda.

Well the evidence looks particularly damning to me, but that is why I am running it by the folks here who should be able to dig up any counter factual data.

The entire Chicano movement and its 'la Raza' off spring are taking their philosophy from a Nazi collaborator and propagandist, so what else could that movement be other than racist and fascist?

Yes. The modern vermin accretions are 180 degrees from the earlier movements begun in the late 1940's and 1950's, including Cesar Chavez's and their battles against both growers and the Teamsters.

Chavez strikes me as a rather admirable character. What are you focusing on regarding him?

 

[Picaro]

My whole point for posting this here was to avoid the race baiting and provocation that these thread so often get submerged in, and to get some feedback.

I could be wrong and I think the liberals here are up to the challenge to present counter facts.

If I am unfairly misrepresenting la Raza, I wont to know so that I could stop doing it.

I feel fairly cretain that I am not compeltely wrong in mys ummation, but I would not be surprised to find out I am erring on some of the details, nuances and perspective on this movement.

But so far everything has rolled out pretty much as I expected with few counter points. But with only 31 posts, I dont think it has time to be seriously discussed yet.

La Raza, MecHa, ad nauseam is nothing but the Mexican version of the KKK and skinhead gangs. This isn't debatable. The real issue is how one of their members came to be appointed to a Federal court bench, and their various subsidiaries being given Federal ad state funds and grants to finance their hate group agenda.

Well the evidence looks particularly damning to me, but that is why I am running it by the folks here who should be able to dig up any counter factual data.

The entire Chicano movement and its 'la Raza' off spring are taking their philosophy from a Nazi collaborator and propagandist, so what else could that movement be other than racist and fascist?

Yes. The modern vermin accretions are 180 degrees from the earlier movements begun in the late 1940's and 1950's, including Cesar Chavez's and their battles against both growers and the Teamsters.

Chavez strikes me as a rather admirable character. What are you focusing on regarding him?

He was generally honest as a union organizer, unlike the sleazy 'padrone' racketeers before him and the even worse ones that came along after and operate today, and he wasn't at all afraid to criticize and oppose criminal illegal immigration and it's disastrous effects on farm workers and their families, as were most latino american leaders of that era; they knew exactly why they couldn't get ahead and had such a terrible time organizing, and not just farm workers but warehouses, meat packing plants, and other industries that were mercilessly exploiting illegals with the enthusiastic consent of Democrats and Republicans at the time. One of the major black marks against LBJ was his refusal to support the movement against criminal illegal immigration in the 1950's when the Tejano blocs were literally begging him for support. It was also out of character for him as well, and surprising given his previous history of supporting minorities regardless of the negative consequences to his political strength.

A few black leaders also weren't afraid to call out illegal immigration as a major existential problem holding black americans down in the southern tier states, especially Congresswoman Barbara Jordan. of course the Black Caucus and the NAACP tossed her under the bus for not following the 'neo-liberal' PC line those worthless corrupt hacks like to get paid to spout, and paid a heavy political price for that. If anybody should by rights have been the first black and female President it was Jordan. Her early and untimely death was a major blow to any hope of an independent black lobby that didn't suck up to the scumbags of the northern Democratic political machines dominated by New York and Chicago.

Barbara Jordan and the U.S. Commission on Immigration Reform

 

[JimBowie1958]

Found this article from Life Magazine, June 10, 1940 that supports the claims in the OP.

LIFE

 

[JimBowie1958]

Chavez strikes me as a rather admirable character. What are you focusing on regarding him?

He was generally honest as a union organizer, unlike the sleazy 'padrone' racketeers before him and the even worse ones that came along after and operate today, and he wasn't at all afraid to criticize and oppose criminal illegal immigration and it's disastrous effects on farm workers and their families, as were most latino american leaders of that era; they knew exactly why they couldn't get ahead and had such a terrible time organizing, and not just farm workers but warehouses, meat packing plants, and other industries that were mercilessly exploiting illegals with the enthusiastic consent of Democrats and Republicans at the time.

I misunderstood you to be slamming on Chavez, my bad.