RE: The Occupied Territories Are the Biggest Prison on Earth
※→ P F Tinmore, JoelT1, et al,
This is a good argument. And is part of the Permanent Status of Negotiations (Oslo Accords).
(COMMENT)post: 18330526 said:From your link:
The West Bank and the Gaza Strip were never parts of Jordan, and Jordan's attempt to annex the West Bank was not generally recognized and has now been abandoned. The two parcels of land are parts of the Mandate that have not yet been allocated to Jordan, to Israel, or to any other state, and are a legitimate subject for discussion.
Now, RoccoR has consistently stated the West Bank was Sovereign Jordan territory. Of course I have always disagreed with that premise.
Here is where Rostow and I disagree. He states that the land was part of the Mandate. That is not true. One of the tenets of the Mandate was the non annexation of former Turkish territory. The land was directly ceded to the respective successor states.
He also speaks of land not allocated. For one, who has the authority to allocate land. Plus, the land was already ceded to Palestine.
First, "Palestine, itself, was not a successor state. Palestine was the short title for the "territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine;" as stated in the Palestine Order in Council 1922 (Part I - Preliminaries, Paragraph 1: Title).
Sovereignty does not have to be recognized; but it must be maintain as the supreme authority that claims sovereignty. Recognition is not a prerequisite. [Precedence: Convention on Rights and Duties of States (Montevideo Convention) Article 3: The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.]
Whether or not the intent of the Mandate was to restrict the Arab Palestinian Right to self-determination is moot. The Mandate terminated on 15 May 1948. The Annexation Action by Jordan took place 2 years later in April 1950. The applicability of the Mandate had expired.
The Precedence even becomes more applicable and stronger when coupled with the fact that the Annexation of the West Bank (Unification of the Two Banks) was approved by the "Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented." (Precedence: UN Charter - Chapter I, Article 1(2) "Based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples.)
The Annexation by Jordan was generally considered a unilateral action → made effective by actual possession and legitimized by general recognition. It is sometimes interpreted that Article 47, Fourth Geneva Convention, prohibits any annexation by the Occupying Power of any part of the territory under occupation is arguable.
The want and need by Israel of Political Legitimacy and International Law (considered separate and distinct) relative to its action within East Jerusalem (annexed) and the West Bank is becoming less and less important. The Arab Palestinians have been obstructionists to the establishment of Peace since the unsuccessful attempt by the Arab League, the Holy War Army and the Arab Liberation Army to claim Israeli Independent territory; more than a half century ago has been replayed twice again with failed results. It is the Arab Palestinian opinion, by action and deed, that any territory overrun by Israeli Forces while in pursuit of the aggressor Arab Palestinians, should be return to Arab Palestinian Control so that may reconstitute forces and arsenals for yet another bid against Israel. The Arab Palestinians, like nearly every other nation that opens a conflict and defeated, should be exempt from War Reparations and Restitution for the cost of the conflict.
Pro-Arab Palestinians and the Arab Palestinians themselves, need international assistance so to avoid the customary practice of including payments or exchanges, in any treaty negotiation, intended to cover damage or injury inflicted during a war; as well as the custody of any Arab Palestinian wanted in connection with terrorism.
Most Respectfully,
RStates exist as a person under law even if it lacks the power to exercise its rights. A state does not go out of existence because it is under military occupation.Sovereignty does not have to be recognized; but it must be maintain as the supreme authority that claims sovereignty. Recognition is not a prerequisite. [Precedence: Convention on Rights and Duties of States (Montevideo Convention) Article 3: The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.]
ARTICLE 4
States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.
Palestine, originally a Roman name imposed on ancient Israel, later Britain’s name for the British Mandate, ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood
There is no state of palestine nor has one ever existed.
RE: The Occupied Territories Are the Biggest Prison on Earth
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
The Treaty of Lausanne identifies that geography as:
ARTICLE 3.In the time before the Politicizing the name "Palestine," the undefined territory was encapsulated in the typical description of Syria.
From the Mediterranean to the frontier of Persia, the frontier of Turkey is laid down as follows:
(I ) With Syria:
The frontier described in Article 8 of the Franco-Turkish Agreement of the 20th October, 1921.
(COMMENT)You are still talking about occupied territory. The rules changed when Palestine became a successor state after the Treaty of Lausanne.First, "Palestine, itself, was not a successor state. Palestine was the short title for the "territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine;" as stated in the Palestine Order in Council 1922 (Part I - Preliminaries, Paragraph 1: Title).
The Treaty of Lausanne did not create any country. And even if it did, the inhabitants of the former Enemy Occupied Territory Administration were NOT parties to the agreement. In fact, none of the other countries created out of the Mandate had the capacity to enforce any portion of the Treaty of the Agreement.
Israel is a successor state as of May 1948, by self-determination, in cooperation with the UN Palestine Commission and having completed the Steps Preparatory to Independence. Jordan was a successor nation as of 1946. In the case of Jordan, once part of the territory over which the Mandate for Palestine applied, was by treaty, made Independent.
Article 1, Treaty between Great Britain and Jordan 1946
His Majesty The King recognises Trans-Jordan as a fully independent State and His Highness The Amir as the sovereign thereof.
(REASON)
A cornerstones of In the Arab Palestinian Argument is that:
• The inhabitants of the region, later to become known as the Arab Palestinians, has some right to sovereignty over the territory; and they invoke the “right to self-determination” → including their demand for autonomy — or, in some cases, secession — and believe --- by default --- they have the right to resorted to violence to pursue their aims to disestablish the State of Israel.
The democratic government and societies like Israel – with the freedom of expression and religion → is very different to that of its neighbors and presents a threat to the more or less autocratic secular and theocratic Arab governments in the Middle East which are still tribally and culturally constituted and in religious between various sects.
Most Respectfully,
R
So-called “palestinians” are merely Jordanian Arabs abandoned after the ‘67 War Not coincidentally, the “palestinian” flag is a modified flag of Jordan
Arabs have 22 countries Ample opportunity for self-determination