The Palestinian Tragedy.

[toomuchtime_]

The idea that the same Zionist terrorists who massacred, raped and mutilated Palestine's native residents(1) "bought" any land is absurd.

During the Nakba, over 500 Palestinian towns and villages were destroyed and their residents massacred or expelled.

Yes, some tiny percentage of the land was sold but that amount is statistically insignificant.

The vast majority of land acquired by foreign Jews and militant Zionist terrorist gangs was taken by force for a "Greater Israel".


(1) “Deir Yasin Massacre, 09.04.1948”

https://www.countercurrents.org/alhelsi100410.htm

EXCERPT " One of the worst Zionist massacres committed against Palestinians is the Deir Yasin massacre. Defenceless Palestinian civilians were tortured before being massacres and their bodies mutilated. Women and children were raped, babies were butchered and pregnant women were bayoneted." CONTINUED

The Nakba was the result of the Arabs trying to eradicate, in their own words, the Jews in 1947 - 1949 and failing and then rejecting peace when Israel accepted UN 194 and offered to allow those Palestinians who wanted to live in peace with Israel to return. No land was stolen, but when the retreating Arab armies signed a truce with Israel, the truce lines became the new borders of Israel according to the UN.

Deir Jassim was a badly botched operation by Irgun and Legi, and there are several versions of what happened, just as there are about The Arab massacre of hundreds of surrendering Jews at Gush Etzion at about the same time.

The kibbutz fell within a day; the Arab forces massacred 127 of the 133 surrendering defenders. The total number of dead during the final assault, including those killed in the massacre and those who committed suicide, was estimated to be between 75 and 250. Only three men and one woman survived.

Gush Etzion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Were you not such an ignorant bigot, you would understand there is no connection between the earlier land sales, mostly in the first quarter of the century and Israel's War of Independence a generation later.

 

[Grau]

"HOWLING 'ANTI SEMITE, AGAIN AND AGAIN"

Again, it's all in your imagination. Israel has been searching for peace for over 100 years, but the Palestinians continue to make war against it for imagined offenses, and you, as you have been demonstrating just hate Jews.

We've all read your lies about "Israel searching for peace...." that are easily debunked by anyone with even a cursory knowledge of the region.

“Israel Does Not Want Peace”

Israel does not want peace

Rejectionism is embedded in Israel's most primal beliefs. There, at the deepest level, lies the concept that this land is destined for the Jews alone.

www.haaretz.com

EXCERPT “Israel does not want peace. There is nothing I have ever written that I would be happier to be proved wrong about. But the evidence is piling up. In fact, it can be said that Israel has never wanted peace – a just peace, that is, one based on a just compromise for both sides.

In recent years, Israel has moved away from even the aspiration to make peace. It has despaired utterly of it. Peace has disappeared from the Israeli agenda, “ CONTINUED

Re: .....and you, as you have been demonstrating just hate Jews

And what would our gaggle of Hasbara trolls do without their "anti Semite card" that Shulamit Aloni regards as "The Trick"

“Don’t be caught out by ‘the trick’”

Don’t be caught out by ‘the trick'

In August 2002 former Israeli Minister of Education Shulamit Aloni was interviewed on the radio and television program Democracy Now .

www.scoop.co.nz

EXCERPTS "“Well, it’s a trick, we always use it. When from Europe somebody is criticizing Israel, then we bring up the Holocaust. When in this country people are criticizing Israel, then they are anti-Semitic.....

And it’s very easy to blame people who criticize certain acts of the Israeli government as anti-Semitic, and to bring up the Holocaust, and the suffering of the Jewish people, and that is to justify everything we do to the Palestinians.”CONTINUED

Zionist terrorist gangs never wanted peace, they want and continue to steal land:

 

[Grau]

Were you not such an ignorant bigot, you would understand there is no connection between the earlier land sales, mostly in the first quarter of the century and Israel's War of Independence a generation later.

I don't waste time on insulting proven losers:

"When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser" Socrates

 

[gipper]

"HOWLING 'ANTI SEMITE, AGAIN AND AGAIN"




We've all read your lies about "Israel searching for peace...." that are easily debunked by anyone with even a cursory knowledge of the region.

“Israel Does Not Want Peace”

Israel does not want peace

Rejectionism is embedded in Israel's most primal beliefs. There, at the deepest level, lies the concept that this land is destined for the Jews alone.

www.haaretz.com

EXCERPT “Israel does not want peace. There is nothing I have ever written that I would be happier to be proved wrong about. But the evidence is piling up. In fact, it can be said that Israel has never wanted peace – a just peace, that is, one based on a just compromise for both sides.

In recent years, Israel has moved away from even the aspiration to make peace. It has despaired utterly of it. Peace has disappeared from the Israeli agenda, “ CONTINUED


And what would our gaggle of Hasbara trolls do without their "anti Semite card" that Shulamit Aloni regards as "The Trick"

“Don’t be caught out by ‘the trick’”

Don’t be caught out by ‘the trick'

In August 2002 former Israeli Minister of Education Shulamit Aloni was interviewed on the radio and television program Democracy Now .

www.scoop.co.nz

EXCERPTS "“Well, it’s a trick, we always use it. When from Europe somebody is criticizing Israel, then we bring up the Holocaust. When in this country people are criticizing Israel, then they are anti-Semitic.....

And it’s very easy to blame people who criticize certain acts of the Israeli government as anti-Semitic, and to bring up the Holocaust, and the suffering of the Jewish people, and that is to justify everything we do to the Palestinians.”CONTINUED

Zionist terrorist gangs never wanted peace, they want and continue to steal land:View attachment 965711

According to Massie every R member of Congress has an “AIPAC person,” but him. AIPAC’s and by extension Israel’s control of the US congress should concern Americans, but few seem to be aware or concerned.

 

[gipper]

"HOWLING 'ANTI SEMITE, AGAIN AND AGAIN"




We've all read your lies about "Israel searching for peace...." that are easily debunked by anyone with even a cursory knowledge of the region.

“Israel Does Not Want Peace”

Israel does not want peace

Rejectionism is embedded in Israel's most primal beliefs. There, at the deepest level, lies the concept that this land is destined for the Jews alone.

www.haaretz.com

EXCERPT “Israel does not want peace. There is nothing I have ever written that I would be happier to be proved wrong about. But the evidence is piling up. In fact, it can be said that Israel has never wanted peace – a just peace, that is, one based on a just compromise for both sides.

In recent years, Israel has moved away from even the aspiration to make peace. It has despaired utterly of it. Peace has disappeared from the Israeli agenda, “ CONTINUED


And what would our gaggle of Hasbara trolls do without their "anti Semite card" that Shulamit Aloni regards as "The Trick"

“Don’t be caught out by ‘the trick’”

Don’t be caught out by ‘the trick'

In August 2002 former Israeli Minister of Education Shulamit Aloni was interviewed on the radio and television program Democracy Now .

www.scoop.co.nz

EXCERPTS "“Well, it’s a trick, we always use it. When from Europe somebody is criticizing Israel, then we bring up the Holocaust. When in this country people are criticizing Israel, then they are anti-Semitic.....

And it’s very easy to blame people who criticize certain acts of the Israeli government as anti-Semitic, and to bring up the Holocaust, and the suffering of the Jewish people, and that is to justify everything we do to the Palestinians.”CONTINUED

Zionist terrorist gangs never wanted peace, they want and continue to steal land:View attachment 965711

According to Massie every R member of Congress has an “AIPAC person,” but him. AIPAC’s and thusly Israel’s control of the US congress should concern Americans, but few seem to be.

Israel does not want peace

Rejectionism is embedded in Israel's most primal beliefs. There, at the deepest level, lies the concept that this land is destined for the Jews alone.

www.haaretz.com

The Nakba was the result of the Arabs trying to eradicate, in their own words, the Jews in 1947 - 1949 and failing and then rejecting peace when Israel accepted UN 194 and offered to allow those Palestinians who wanted to live in peace with Israel to return. No land was stolen, but when the retreating Arab armies signed a truce with Israel, the truce lines became the new borders of Israel according to the UN.

Deir Jassim was a badly botched operation by Irgun and Legi, and there are several versions of what happened, just as there are about The Arab massacre of hundreds of surrendering Jews at Gush Etzion at about the same time.

The kibbutz fell within a day; the Arab forces massacred 127 of the 133 surrendering defenders. The total number of dead during the final assault, including those killed in the massacre and those who committed suicide, was estimated to be between 75 and 250. Only three men and one woman survived.

Gush Etzion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Were you not such an ignorant bigot, you would understand there is no connection between the earlier land sales, mostly in the first quarter of the century and Israel's War of Independence a generation later.

Its probably much worse than the Israeli controlled NY Times is reporting.

Israel Secretly Targets U.S. Lawmakers With Influence Campaign on Gaza War​

Sheera Frenkel
June 5, 2024·6 min read
Israel Secretly Targets U.S. Lawmakers With Influence Campaign on Gaza War

 

[gipper]

The Nakba was the result of the Arabs trying to eradicate, in their own words, the Jews in 1947 - 1949 and failing and then rejecting peace when Israel accepted UN 194 and offered to allow those Palestinians who wanted to live in peace with Israel to return. No land was stolen, but when the retreating Arab armies signed a truce with Israel, the truce lines became the new borders of Israel according to the UN.

Deir Jassim was a badly botched operation by Irgun and Legi, and there are several versions of what happened, just as there are about The Arab massacre of hundreds of surrendering Jews at Gush Etzion at about the same time.

The kibbutz fell within a day; the Arab forces massacred 127 of the 133 surrendering defenders. The total number of dead during the final assault, including those killed in the massacre and those who committed suicide, was estimated to be between 75 and 250. Only three men and one woman survived.

Gush Etzion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Were you not such an ignorant bigot, you would understand there is no connection between the earlier land sales, mostly in the first quarter of the century and Israel's War of Independence a generation later.

When will there be a congressional investigation of foreign interference in our elections by Israel, like the ones concerning Russia?

 

[gipper]

The Nakba was the result of the Arabs trying to eradicate, in their own words, the Jews in 1947 - 1949 and failing and then rejecting peace when Israel accepted UN 194 and offered to allow those Palestinians who wanted to live in peace with Israel to return. No land was stolen, but when the retreating Arab armies signed a truce with Israel, the truce lines became the new borders of Israel according to the UN.

Deir Jassim was a badly botched operation by Irgun and Legi, and there are several versions of what happened, just as there are about The Arab massacre of hundreds of surrendering Jews at Gush Etzion at about the same time.

The kibbutz fell within a day; the Arab forces massacred 127 of the 133 surrendering defenders. The total number of dead during the final assault, including those killed in the massacre and those who committed suicide, was estimated to be between 75 and 250. Only three men and one woman survived.

Gush Etzion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Were you not such an ignorant bigot, you would understand there is no connection between the earlier land sales, mostly in the first quarter of the century and Israel's War of Independence a generation later.

From 2009…

 

[toomuchtime_]

"HOWLING 'ANTI SEMITE, AGAIN AND AGAIN"




We've all read your lies about "Israel searching for peace...." that are easily debunked by anyone with even a cursory knowledge of the region.

“Israel Does Not Want Peace”

Israel does not want peace

Rejectionism is embedded in Israel's most primal beliefs. There, at the deepest level, lies the concept that this land is destined for the Jews alone.

www.haaretz.com

EXCERPT “Israel does not want peace. There is nothing I have ever written that I would be happier to be proved wrong about. But the evidence is piling up. In fact, it can be said that Israel has never wanted peace – a just peace, that is, one based on a just compromise for both sides.

In recent years, Israel has moved away from even the aspiration to make peace. It has despaired utterly of it. Peace has disappeared from the Israeli agenda, “ CONTINUED


And what would our gaggle of Hasbara trolls do without their "anti Semite card" that Shulamit Aloni regards as "The Trick"

“Don’t be caught out by ‘the trick’”

Don’t be caught out by ‘the trick'

In August 2002 former Israeli Minister of Education Shulamit Aloni was interviewed on the radio and television program Democracy Now .

www.scoop.co.nz

EXCERPTS "“Well, it’s a trick, we always use it. When from Europe somebody is criticizing Israel, then we bring up the Holocaust. When in this country people are criticizing Israel, then they are anti-Semitic.....

And it’s very easy to blame people who criticize certain acts of the Israeli government as anti-Semitic, and to bring up the Holocaust, and the suffering of the Jewish people, and that is to justify everything we do to the Palestinians.”CONTINUED

Zionist terrorist gangs never wanted peace, they want and continue to steal land:View attachment 965711

The headline says Israel does not want peace, but the writer says Israel does not want what he thinks would be a just peace, so the article begins with a lie - albeit one that you like - and he goes on to say a just peace is one in which both sides make compromises, but in all the years of negotiations, only Israel has offered any compromises, and the Palestinians have never offered a single compromise; in fact the Palestinians have not changed their position since 1920, the destruction of Israel.

The evidence clearly shows only Israel wants peace.

 

[Shusha]

View attachment 965711

This map is one of the reasons we don't have peace and are unlikely to achieve peace in the foreseeable future.

This map is deliberately deceitful and manipulative. It is intended to underscore Jewish malfeasance.

In order for there to be peace, the West must stop supporting this narrative of Palestinian "loss" alongside Jewish aggression and replace it with a narrative of two peoples, both with equal rights, each seeking self-determination and sovereignty in the territory.

Here is an accurate map of Palestinian political control:

 

[Mac-7]

"HOWLING 'ANTI SEMITE, AGAIN AND AGAIN"




We've all read your lies about "Israel searching for peace...." that are easily debunked by anyone with even a cursory knowledge of the region.

“Israel Does Not Want Peace”

Israel does not want peace

Rejectionism is embedded in Israel's most primal beliefs. There, at the deepest level, lies the concept that this land is destined for the Jews alone.

www.haaretz.com

EXCERPT “Israel does not want peace. There is nothing I have ever written that I would be happier to be proved wrong about. But the evidence is piling up. In fact, it can be said that Israel has never wanted peace – a just peace, that is, one based on a just compromise for both sides.

In recent years, Israel has moved away from even the aspiration to make peace. It has despaired utterly of it. Peace has disappeared from the Israeli agenda, “ CONTINUED


And what would our gaggle of Hasbara trolls do without their "anti Semite card" that Shulamit Aloni regards as "The Trick"

“Don’t be caught out by ‘the trick’”

Don’t be caught out by ‘the trick'

In August 2002 former Israeli Minister of Education Shulamit Aloni was interviewed on the radio and television program Democracy Now .

www.scoop.co.nz

EXCERPTS "“Well, it’s a trick, we always use it. When from Europe somebody is criticizing Israel, then we bring up the Holocaust. When in this country people are criticizing Israel, then they are anti-Semitic.....

And it’s very easy to blame people who criticize certain acts of the Israeli government as anti-Semitic, and to bring up the Holocaust, and the suffering of the Jewish people, and that is to justify everything we do to the Palestinians.”CONTINUED

Zionist terrorist gangs never wanted peace, they want and continue to steal land:View attachment 965711

The arab portion of the Holy Land in 1947 looks a lot better than 2012

Dont you agree?

The Pals never made peace and their situation gets steadily worse

Why not make peace with Israel before there is nothing left?

 

[Grau]

According to Massie every R member of Congress has an “AIPAC person,” but him. AIPAC’s and thusly Israel’s control of the US congress should concern Americans, but few seem to be.

Israel does not want peace

Rejectionism is embedded in Israel's most primal beliefs. There, at the deepest level, lies the concept that this land is destined for the Jews alone.

www.haaretz.com

Its probably much worse than the Israeli controlled NY Times is reporting.

Israel Secretly Targets U.S. Lawmakers With Influence Campaign on Gaza War​

Sheera Frenkel
June 5, 2024·6 min read
Israel Secretly Targets U.S. Lawmakers With Influence Campaign on Gaza War

I have repeatedly asked supporters of Israel's right wing extremists to name just one other country that has infected the US Government with more self serving foreign agents to a greater degree than Israel.

Without exception they have been unable to name another foreign lobby that has succeeded in getting gullible Americans to sacrifice American lives for "Greater Israel" regional hegemony:

“QUIETLY LOBBYING CONGRESS TO APPROVE THE USE OF FORCE IN IRAQ WAS ONE OF AIPAC’S SUCCESSES OVER THE PAST YEAR.”

AIPAC Executive Director Howard Kohr; N.Y. Sun, Jan. 2003

In addition to manipulating American politicians into sending young Americans to die for Israel's regional hegemony, no foreign lobby has been nearly as successful as Israel's in extorting unlimited cash, weaponry, "loans", and stolen secrets.

"How Israel Has Betrayed America"
https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2014/06/06/how-israel-has-betrayed-america/

EXCERPT "A recent report by Newsweek magazine that Israel has spied on the United States at “an alarming level” and has done so “more than any other ally does” raises a very serious issue concerning how much Israel has betrayed America, which is something that the American mainstream media have time and again refused to debate in public." CONTINUED

Finally, Israel's glut of lobbies are the only foreign agents not required to register with the State department which makes it easier for them to control America's politicians.

For anyone attempting to find their local politician, they need only look in the pocket of their nearest AIPAC lobbyist.

Thanks,

 

[Grau]

"ISRAEL WANTS SETTLEMENTS, NOT PEACE"

The headline says Israel does not want peace, but the writer says Israel does not want what he thinks would be a just peace, so the article begins with a lie - albeit one that you like - and he goes on to say a just peace is one in which both sides make compromises, but in all the years of negotiations, only Israel has offered any compromises, and the Palestinians have never offered a single compromise; in fact the Palestinians have not changed their position since 1920, the destruction of Israel.

The evidence clearly shows only Israel wants peace.

Rarely do I ever read such grotesque distortions of Levantine history as when I read excerpts of "Ziono-History" from Israel's army of paid, trained and scripted Hasbara propagandists.

Israel's Hasbara shills routinely omit salient facts about the conquest and subsequent occupation of Palestine.

FACT #1:
According to the 1922 British census and survey of Palestine, Jews comprised only about 8% of Palestine.
Now, through mass murder, terrorism and land theft of Nazi trained and armed Zionist terrorist gangs, Jews control virtually all of former Palestine.
Israel's genocidal Zionists clearly wanted Palestinian land, not peace.

FACT #2
Israel's "Provoke-then-Destroy" Doctrine

"Moshe Dayan, in his diaries said:
"Our strategy was always to provoke the Arabs and get an appropriate response so we could attack and smash them."

https://tekgnosis.typepad.com/tekgnosis/2009/05/the-matrix-report-v-20-pt1.html

That's how foreign Zionist terrorist gangs with foreign military training and foreign arms succeeded in stealing virtually all of Palestine.

FACT #3
Settlements OR Peace.

You deliberately omitted the section of the article I cited that stated that Israel's criminal "Settlements" policy is proof that Israel doesn't want peace and never ha.

As far back as 1937, leading Zionists made it clear that a Jewish state in Palestine was: "...not the end but the beginning......to liberate the entire country." (i.e. Palestine)

“A Jewish state on only part of the land is not the end but the beginning. … The establishment of a state, even if only on a portion of the land, is the maximal reinforcement of our strength at the present time and a powerful boost to our historical endeavors to liberate the entire country.”
David Ben-Gurion,
All the Times Israel Has Rejected Peace With Palestinians

Finally, actions speak louder than words and nothing clarifies Israel's rejection of a just and durable peace more than its "Settlements" policy.

The part of the article you omitted is in red:

"Israel Does Not Want Peace"

Israel does not want peace

Rejectionism is embedded in Israel's most primal beliefs. There, at the deepest level, lies the concept that this land is destined for the Jews alone.

www.haaretz.com

EXCERPT "Rejectionism is embedded in Israel's most primal beliefs. There, at the deepest level, lies the concept that this land is destined for the Jews alone.

The single most overwhelming item of evidence of Israel’s rejection of peace is, of course, the settlements project. From the dawn of its existence, there has never been a more reliable or more precise litmus test for Israel’s true intentions than this particular enterprise." CONTINUED

 

[Grau]

The arab portion of the Holy Land in 1947 looks a lot better than 2012

Dont you agree?

The Pals never made peace and their situation gets steadily worse

Why not make peace with Israel before there is nothing left?

First of all, thanks for your refreshingly civil response.
I fully believe that it's possible to hold different opinions and still discuss them without hostility.


To answer your first question, even though I walked and hitch-hiked around the Middle East for 10 -11 months, I never made it to the Holy Land because the '73 War broke out while I was in and around Palestinian refugee camps in Southern Lebanon and the borders were closed into Israel.

Anyway, I only know the Holy Land through photos, personal accounts and books and don't feel qualified enough to make an informed account of the ways in which life was either much better or much worse.

As you know, Palestine's Jewish population in 1922 only comprised about 8% of the total population.
Even since the Nakba, many foreign Jews have displaced an existing Arab population onto less and less land primarily because of Israel's illegal "Settlements" policy

Not only are most settlers right wing and militant extremists but they frequently murderous and hostile "neighbors" (1) who even deliberately weaponize their own raw sewage (2).

How does an existing population live in peace with invasive and extremist "Settlers" who murder, pollute / poison and destroy with impunity?

As I posted in my comment #32

"Israel Does Not Want Peace":

Israel does not want peace​

"Rejectionism is embedded in Israel's most primal beliefs. There, at the deepest level, lies the concept that this land is destined for the Jews alone."

www.haaretz.com

EXCERPT "Rejectionism is embedded in Israel's most primal beliefs. There, at the deepest level, lies the concept that this land is destined for the Jews alone.

The single most overwhelming item of evidence of Israel’s rejection of peace is, of course, the settlements project. From the dawn of its existence, there has never been a more reliable or more precise litmus test for Israel’s true intentions than this particular enterprise." CONTINUED

Re: Why not make peace with Israel before there is nothing left?

The existing residents of Palestine have already lost most of their land.
What more do they have left to surrender except for what is already being stolen by murderous Zionist "Settlers" from Brooklyn?

Thanks,




(1). "Israel Must Loudly Arrest the Murderous West Bank Settlers"

Israel Must Loudly Arrest the Settlers Who Are Killing West Bank Palestinians

Or risk losing any moral authority in this war.

slate.com

3, November 2023

EXCERPT "Since Hamas’ Oct. 7 attack, settlers there have killed more than 120 Palestinians and injured at least 2,000. They have forcibly expelled more than 800 Palestinians from their homes, blown up their generators and solar panels, and burned down tents of Bedouin herders.

Again: This has been going on not in Gaza but in the West Bank—which is governed by the Palestinian Authority, not by Hamas." CONTINUED


(2). "The devastating environmental effects of Israeli settler-colonialism in the West Bank"

"Israeli settlement expansion is not only illegal, it is also destroying Palestine's environment through the urbanization of the West Bank."

The devastating environmental effects of Israeli settler-colonialism in the West Bank

Israeli settlement expansion is not only illegal, it is also destroying Palestine’s environment through the urbanization of the West Bank.

mondoweiss.net

EXCERPT "Israel dumps 80% of the waste products generated from Israeli settlements in the occupied West Bank. This in turn, “[pollutes] the Palestinian earth and water supply, while Israeli settlers in the West Bank – who produce similar amounts of wastewater to the Palestinian population, despite being outnumbered more than six to one – deliberately poison the water, land and livestock of nearby Palestinian villages”. This means that every year over “2 million cubic metres of raw [untreated] sewage flow into the valleys of streams of the [Palestinian] West Bank…[causing] severe damage through the West Bank… " CONTINUED

 

[Mac-7]

I have repeatedly asked supporters of Israel's right wing extremists to name just one other country that has infected the US Government with more self serving foreign agents to a greater degree than Israel.

Without exception they have been unable to name another foreign lobby that has succeeded in getting gullible Americans to sacrifice American lives for "Greater Israel" regional hegemony:

“QUIETLY LOBBYING CONGRESS TO APPROVE THE USE OF FORCE IN IRAQ WAS ONE OF AIPAC’S SUCCESSES OVER THE PAST YEAR.”

AIPAC Executive Director Howard Kohr; N.Y. Sun, Jan. 2003

In addition to manipulating American politicians into sending young Americans to die for Israel's regional hegemony, no foreign lobby has been nearly as successful as Israel's in extorting unlimited cash, weaponry, "loans", and stolen secrets.

"How Israel Has Betrayed America"
https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2014/06/06/how-israel-has-betrayed-america/

EXCERPT "A recent report by Newsweek magazine that Israel has spied on the United States at “an alarming level” and has done so “more than any other ally does” raises a very serious issue concerning how much Israel has betrayed America, which is something that the American mainstream media have time and again refused to debate in public." CONTINUED

Finally, Israel's glut of lobbies are the only foreign agents not required to register with the State department which makes it easier for them to control America's politicians.

For anyone attempting to find their local politician, they need only look in the pocket of their nearest AIPAC lobbyist.

Thanks,

America supports Israel because its the right thing to do

 

[Shusha]

The single most overwhelming item of evidence of Israel’s rejection of peace is, of course, the settlements project.

The notion that Jews living in Judea is an offence so egregious that it renders peace impossible is one of the more ridiculous ideas held by the international community.

There is a sizeable portion of Arabs living in Israel. There is no reason why there can't be a sizeable portion of Jews living in an Arab Palestine.

Rather than an obstacle to peace, Arabs and Jews living together under the same national identity - sharing neighborhoods, work environments, schools, green spaces - has given rise to an actual, lasting peace (at least under the governance of the Jewish people).

It is the Arab declaration that they can not and will not live in the presence of the "other" that perpetuates conflict.

 

[gipper]

First of all, thanks for your refreshingly civil response.
I fully believe that it's possible to hold different opinions and still discuss them without hostility.


To answer your first question, even though I walked and hitch-hiked around the Middle East for 10 -11 months, I never made it to the Holy Land because the '73 War broke out while I was in and around Palestinian refugee camps in Southern Lebanon and the borders were closed into Israel.

Anyway, I only know the Holy Land through photos, personal accounts and books and don't feel qualified enough to make an informed account of the ways in which life was either much better or much worse.

As you know, Palestine's Jewish population in 1922 only comprised about 8% of the total population.
Even since the Nakba, many foreign Jews have displaced an existing Arab population onto less and less land primarily because of Israel's illegal "Settlements" policy

Not only are most settlers right wing and militant extremists but they frequently murderous and hostile "neighbors" (1) who even deliberately weaponize their own raw sewage (2).

How does an existing population live in peace with invasive and extremist "Settlers" who murder, pollute / poison and destroy with impunity?

As I posted in my comment #32

"Israel Does Not Want Peace":

Israel does not want peace​

"Rejectionism is embedded in Israel's most primal beliefs. There, at the deepest level, lies the concept that this land is destined for the Jews alone."

www.haaretz.com

EXCERPT "Rejectionism is embedded in Israel's most primal beliefs. There, at the deepest level, lies the concept that this land is destined for the Jews alone.

The single most overwhelming item of evidence of Israel’s rejection of peace is, of course, the settlements project. From the dawn of its existence, there has never been a more reliable or more precise litmus test for Israel’s true intentions than this particular enterprise." CONTINUED



The existing residents of Palestine have already lost most of their land.
What more do they have left to surrender except for what is already being stolen by murderous Zionist "Settlers" from Brooklyn?

Thanks,




(1). "Israel Must Loudly Arrest the Murderous West Bank Settlers"

Israel Must Loudly Arrest the Settlers Who Are Killing West Bank Palestinians

Or risk losing any moral authority in this war.

slate.com

3, November 2023

EXCERPT "Since Hamas’ Oct. 7 attack, settlers there have killed more than 120 Palestinians and injured at least 2,000. They have forcibly expelled more than 800 Palestinians from their homes, blown up their generators and solar panels, and burned down tents of Bedouin herders.

Again: This has been going on not in Gaza but in the West Bank—which is governed by the Palestinian Authority, not by Hamas." CONTINUED


(2). "The devastating environmental effects of Israeli settler-colonialism in the West Bank"

"Israeli settlement expansion is not only illegal, it is also destroying Palestine's environment through the urbanization of the West Bank."

The devastating environmental effects of Israeli settler-colonialism in the West Bank

Israeli settlement expansion is not only illegal, it is also destroying Palestine’s environment through the urbanization of the West Bank.

mondoweiss.net

EXCERPT "Israel dumps 80% of the waste products generated from Israeli settlements in the occupied West Bank. This in turn, “[pollutes] the Palestinian earth and water supply, while Israeli settlers in the West Bank – who produce similar amounts of wastewater to the Palestinian population, despite being outnumbered more than six to one – deliberately poison the water, land and livestock of nearby Palestinian villages”. This means that every year over “2 million cubic metres of raw [untreated] sewage flow into the valleys of streams of the [Palestinian] West Bank…[causing] severe damage through the West Bank… " CONTINUED

All things dumb uninformed Americans have no knowledge of, but they do know to hate Palestinians.

 

[Grau]

America supports Israel because its the right thing to do

Because I served in the US Army and took an oath not only to be loyal to America over other countries but also to defend the US against all enemies, foreign and domestic, I cannot support a foreign government (Netanyahu regime) whose actions are so severely detrimental to both US interests and America's overall security.

As long as there are sick, hungry, homeless and suffering Americans, it is not in America's best interest to give the Netanyahu government $ Billions in ordinance to use against sick, hungry, homeless and suffering Palestinian civilians.

Not only is it aiding and abetting what most of the world regards as a criminal genocide (1) but it increases the chance of of a wider conflict with AIPAC manipulating the US into another(2), (3), larger war against the justifiably embittered Islamic World.

I have repeatedly said that Israel is a fascinating country with much to offer but I feel that $ Trillions (4) in America's most advanced weaponry used by the Netanyahu government on so many homeless, hungry, sick and traumatized civilians is not in either Israel's or America's best interest.

There are about 1.7 Billion Muslims in the world, at least some are very likely to feel fully justified in striking Israeli and / or American targets.

Finally, the right thing to do is to stop the killing and suffering because Netanyahu can't kill his way out of this "war" since there will always be some other resistance to replace Hamas.

Thanks,



(1) “Jews Against Genocide statement and action”

Jews Against Genocide statement and action - IJAN

We, Jews Against Genocide, came to Yad Vashem, Israel’s memorial of the genocide committed against Jews, to honor the Palestinian children who are dying in a genocide committed by Jews. We brought dolls to symbolise the children of Gaza, and tried to bring a glimpse of the horror that Gazan’s...

www.ijan.org

EXCERPT “We, Jews Against Genocide, came to Yad Vashem, Israel’s memorial of the genocide committed against Jews, to honor the Palestinian children who are dying in a genocide committed by Jews.

We brought dolls to symbolise the children of Gaza, and tried to bring a glimpse of the horror that Gazan’s face, to Israel’s doorstep. We hope to show Israel, and the world, the absurd reality of using the memory of one genocide to justify another.” CONTINUED



(2). “QUIETLY LOBBYING CONGRESS TO APPROVE THE USE OF FORCE IN IRAQ WAS ONE OF AIPAC’S SUCCESSES OVER THE PAST YEAR.”
AIPAC Executive Director Howard Kohr; N.Y. Sun, Jan. 2003



(3). "Top Pentagon adviser says ‘Israeli lobby’ funds officials who want war"

"Douglas Macgregor blamed pro-Israel policy for driving the United States into the Iraq conflict after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks,"

Top Pentagon adviser says ‘Israeli lobby’ funds officials who want war

Douglas Macgregor blamed pro-Israel policy for driving the United States into the Iraq conflict after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks,

www.jpost.com

EXCERPT "Douglas Macgregor, a top adviser to President Donald Trump’s new acting defense secretary, routinely blames “the Israeli lobby” and “neocons” for pushing the United States into wars.

CNN’s KFile uncovered interviews in which Macgregor, a decorated combat veteran who appears frequently on Fox News and other conservative media, says “pro-Israel” donors and the pro-Israel lobby are behind efforts to drive the United States into war." CONTINUED


(4) "The Costs to American Taxpayers of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: $3 Trillion"
https://www.wrmea.org/003-june/the-...israeli-palestinian-conflict-$3-trillion.html
By Thomas R. Stauffer
EXCERPT "Similarly, aid to Israel—and thus the regional total—also is understated, since much is outside of the foreign aid appropriation process or implicit in other programs. Support for Israel comes to $1.8 trillion, including special trade advantages, preferential contracts, or aid buried in other accounts. In addition to the financial outlay, U.S. aid to Israel costs some 275,000 American jobs each year."CONTINUED

 

[gipper]

America supports Israel because its the right thing to do

Why is it right to support a religious supremacist apartheid state? Did you think it right to support South Africa when it too was a white supremacy apartheid state?

 

[Grau]

The notion that Jews living in Judea is an offence so egregious that it renders peace impossible is one of the more ridiculous ideas held by the international community.

There is a sizeable portion of Arabs living in Israel. There is no reason why there can't be a sizeable portion of Jews living in an Arab Palestine.

Rather than an obstacle to peace, Arabs and Jews living together under the same national identity - sharing neighborhoods, work environments, schools, green spaces - has given rise to an actual, lasting peace (at least under the governance of the Jewish people).

It is the Arab declaration that they can not and will not live in the presence of the "other" that perpetuates conflict.

Re: There is no reason why there can't be a sizeable portion of Jews living in an Arab Palestine.

Because Jews living on Palestinian land have the bad habit of murdering their Arab neighbors and destroying their property.

Additionally, Israel's "Settlers" divert their raw sewage onto their neighbor's property polluting wells, crops, livestock etc.

How would you like neighbors that took pot shots at you while you're cutting your stinky sewage soaked grass?


"Israel Must Loudly Arrest the Murderous West Bank Settlers"

Israel Must Loudly Arrest the Settlers Who Are Killing West Bank Palestinians

Or risk losing any moral authority in this war.

slate.com

3, November 2023

EXCERPT "Since Hamas’ Oct. 7 attack, settlers there have killed more than 120 Palestinians and injured at least 2,000. They have forcibly expelled more than 800 Palestinians from their homes, blown up their generators and solar panels, and burned down tents of Bedouin herders.

Again: This has been going on not in Gaza but in the West Bank—which is governed by the Palestinian Authority, not by Hamas." CONTINUED

 

[Mac-7]

Because I served in the US Army and took an oath not only to be loyal to America over other countries but also to defend the US against all enemies, foreign and domestic, I cannot support a foreign government (Netanyahu regime) whose actions are so severely detrimental to both US interests and America's overall security.

As long as there are sick, hungry, homeless and suffering Americans, it is not in America's best interest to give the Netanyahu government $ Billions in ordinance to use against sick, hungry, homeless and suffering Palestinian civilians.

Not only is it aiding and abetting what most of the world regards as a criminal genocide (1) but it increases the chance of of a wider conflict with AIPAC manipulating the US into another(2), (3), larger war against the justifiably embittered Islamic World.

I have repeatedly said that Israel is a fascinating country with much to offer but I feel that $ Trillions (4) in America's most advanced weaponry used by the Netanyahu government on so many homeless, hungry, sick and traumatized civilians is not in either Israel's or America's best interest.

There are about 1.7 Billion Muslims in the world, at least some are very likely to feel fully justified in striking Israeli and / or American targets.

Finally, the right thing to do is to stop the killing and suffering because Netanyahu can't kill his way out of this "war" since there will always be some other resistance to replace Hamas.

Thanks,



(1) “Jews Against Genocide statement and action”

Jews Against Genocide statement and action - IJAN

We, Jews Against Genocide, came to Yad Vashem, Israel’s memorial of the genocide committed against Jews, to honor the Palestinian children who are dying in a genocide committed by Jews. We brought dolls to symbolise the children of Gaza, and tried to bring a glimpse of the horror that Gazan’s...

www.ijan.org

EXCERPT “We, Jews Against Genocide, came to Yad Vashem, Israel’s memorial of the genocide committed against Jews, to honor the Palestinian children who are dying in a genocide committed by Jews.

We brought dolls to symbolise the children of Gaza, and tried to bring a glimpse of the horror that Gazan’s face, to Israel’s doorstep. We hope to show Israel, and the world, the absurd reality of using the memory of one genocide to justify another.” CONTINUED



(2). “QUIETLY LOBBYING CONGRESS TO APPROVE THE USE OF FORCE IN IRAQ WAS ONE OF AIPAC’S SUCCESSES OVER THE PAST YEAR.”
AIPAC Executive Director Howard Kohr; N.Y. Sun, Jan. 2003



(3). "Top Pentagon adviser says ‘Israeli lobby’ funds officials who want war"

"Douglas Macgregor blamed pro-Israel policy for driving the United States into the Iraq conflict after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks,"

Top Pentagon adviser says ‘Israeli lobby’ funds officials who want war

Douglas Macgregor blamed pro-Israel policy for driving the United States into the Iraq conflict after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks,

www.jpost.com

EXCERPT "Douglas Macgregor, a top adviser to President Donald Trump’s new acting defense secretary, routinely blames “the Israeli lobby” and “neocons” for pushing the United States into wars.

CNN’s KFile uncovered interviews in which Macgregor, a decorated combat veteran who appears frequently on Fox News and other conservative media, says “pro-Israel” donors and the pro-Israel lobby are behind efforts to drive the United States into war." CONTINUED


(4) "The Costs to American Taxpayers of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: $3 Trillion"
https://www.wrmea.org/003-june/the-...israeli-palestinian-conflict-$3-trillion.html
By Thomas R. Stauffer
EXCERPT "Similarly, aid to Israel—and thus the regional total—also is understated, since much is outside of the foreign aid appropriation process or implicit in other programs. Support for Israel comes to $1.8 trillion, including special trade advantages, preferential contracts, or aid buried in other accounts. In addition to the financial outlay, U.S. aid to Israel costs some 275,000 American jobs each year."CONTINUED

I cant see it the way you do

Israel is a decent, civilized nation and people

The palestinians are none of that

They murder, rape, and torture people

Hamas calls themselves freedom fighters yet they hide in hospitals and schools

And they are financed by the worst terrorist country on the planet that is vowed to destroy Israel and after that the Great Satan, aka America

Not to mention that Israel is was legally created by UN resolution and has a right to exist