The REAL homosexual Agenda...

[mattskramer]

Dumb logic, so what proof do you have that homosexuality isn't wrong? What proof do you have that walking down the street and punching someone in the face is wrong? Somebody else might consider right, you see the kind of fallacious argument you're making?

Ethics. Greater minds than mine, and people with a great interest in philosophy and people with a great deal of spare time on their hands, have debated and discussed it throughout the centuries. I have studied it off and on for decades. I read about Immanuel Kant’s “Categorical Imperative” along with its values and criticisms. I’ve also considered Jeremy Bentham’s Utilitarianism. I’ve observed people and listened to them as they try to explain why they think that “A” is wrong and “B” is right. I’ve come to the conclusion that there is no rhyme or reason.

People might say that they think that right and wrong comes from the Bible (a fallacious appeal to an assumed authority). Yet, when I show them some obscure instruction within the Bible that would likely be frowned upon by the most fair-minded of people, they are quick to pause. I show them inconsistencies. I also ask them why they choose that particular book as their guide instead choosing a different religious book or thinking for themselves.

People might say that it just seems right to them, I explain that it might seem wrong to me. I think that there are very few, if any consistent and absolute ways of determining what is right and what is wrong. Therefore, I have come to the conclusion that, in general, informed and consenting adults should be free to engage in whatever relationship or activity that they think is okay provided that they don’t directly by force or fraud interfere with the same freedoms of others to do likewise. I do not consent for you to punch me. Yet, even under libertarian philosophy, there are lines that people draw: (Bestiality, Anarchy, Incest, etc.) Yet, I might be wrong. I hold my opinion in reserve, understanding that with more growth and thought, I might adjust my value system in time.

Ultimately, each person, through his own idiosyncratic ways, decides what he thinks is right or wrong. He really makes his own rules. We go with what we believe to be right or wrong at any particular place and time. Some people choose naturalism (the naturalistic fallacy) as a rule. Some people choose that which is popular (the bandwagon fallacy). Some people choose a religious book or person (an appeal to authority) to guide them. As time, location, and understandings progress, people’s positions on ethics change and people adjust their rules to suit them.

 

[007]

Ethics. Greater minds than mine, and people with a great interest in philosophy and people with a great deal of spare time on their hands, have debated and discussed it throughout the centuries. I have studied it off and on for decades. I read about Immanuel Kant’s “Categorical Imperative” along with its values and criticisms. I’ve also considered Jeremy Bentham’s Utilitarianism. I’ve observed people and listened to them as they try to explain why they think that “A” is wrong and “B” is right. I’ve come to the conclusion that there is no rhyme or reason.

People might say that they think that right and wrong comes from the Bible (a fallacious appeal to an assumed authority). Yet, when I show them some obscure instruction within the Bible that would likely be frowned upon by the most fair-minded of people, they are quick to pause. I show them inconsistencies. I also ask them why they choose that particular book as their guide instead choosing a different religious book or thinking for themselves.

People might say that it just seems right to them, I explain that it might seem wrong to me. I think that there are very few, if any consistent and absolute ways of determining what is right and what is wrong. Therefore, I have come to the conclusion that, in general, informed and consenting adults should be free to engage in whatever relationship or activity that they think is okay provided that they don’t directly by force or fraud interfere with the same freedoms of others to do likewise. I do not consent for you to punch me. Yet, even under libertarian philosophy, there are lines that people draw: (Bestiality, Anarchy, Incest, etc.) Yet, I might be wrong. I hold my opinion in reserve, understanding that with more growth and thought, I might adjust my value system in time.

Ultimately, each person, through his own idiosyncratic ways, decides what he thinks is right or wrong. He really makes his own rules. We go with what we believe to be right or wrong at any particular place and time. Some people choose naturalism (the naturalistic fallacy) as a rule. Some people choose that which is popular (the bandwagon fallacy). Some people choose a religious book or person (an appeal to authority) to guide them. As time, location, and understandings progress, people’s positions on ethics change and people adjust their rules to suit them.

Those are the types of people that will sit around and ponder why day is day and night is night. They're so damn smart that they lack even one ounce of common sense. When nature has already dictated how things work, and natures design is ultimately more complex than any man can philosophy, then there is no need for explanations or philosophical dissections. It's already been determined by a higher power and design. Nature. God. Whatever. Something smarter than man. But, it doesn't take but one ounce of common sense to see and understand that a man was design to mate, sexually, with a woman. That is how it is. That is right. For a man to mate with man is wrong. It does NOT take a genius to figure that out. Normal physical reactions of revulsion will tell the normal person what's wrong and right. If you don't experience those normal physical revulsion's, then there's some wires crossed in your head and things aren't working as they were meant to.

You homo apologist and excuse makers can blab the psycho-babble from here to eternity, but at the end of the day homosexuality is STILL going to be a mental imbalance, an illness, a defect. No amount of gobbledee gook, blathering, irrelevant jibberish is going to change it.

 

[mattskramer]

Those are the types of people that will sit around and ponder why day is day and night is night. They're so damn smart that they lack even one ounce of common sense.

Who are you talking about? I have intelligence, knowledge, reasoning ability, and common sense.

When nature has already dictated how things work, and natures design is ultimately more complex than any man can philosophy, then there is no need for explanations or philosophical dissections.

Nature does not dictate anything. It merely shows you what naturally is.

It's already been determined by a higher power and design. Nature. God. Whatever. Something smarter than man.

Do you have any irrefutable proof of this? Did this higher power and design create cancer and floods? If so, why did it not also create radiation therapy and dams? What great purpose does it have for the human tail bone? Did nature intend for man to use the bridge of his nose to hold reading glasses?

But, it doesn't take but one ounce of common sense to see and understand that a man was design to mate, sexually, with a woman.

Why did the great designer intend for that? Was it just to make babies? If so, then perhaps contraceptives should be outlawed since they go against nature and Nature’s intention. What of infertile couples? What did nature/god intend for them? I guess that we should prohibit infertile people from uniting.

That is how it is. That is right. For a man to mate with man is wrong. It does NOT take a genius to figure that out. Normal physical reactions of revulsion will tell the normal person what's wrong and right.

So basically that which is unpopular should not be allowed. That which most people find revolting should not be allowed. Is that right? I guess that it was right for Clinton to have been president. He was a good president for our nation since he won the popular vote.

If you don't experience those normal physical revulsion's, then there's some wires crossed in your head and things aren't working as they were meant to.

I did not know that you are a neurosurgeon.

You homo apologist and excuse makers can blab the psycho-babble from here to eternity, but at the end of the day homosexuality is STILL going to be a mental imbalance, an illness, a defect. No amount of gobbledee gook, blathering, irrelevant jibberish is going to change it.

You can babble all that you want with your opinion. It is okay to be gay.
By the way, even with homosexuality and gay marriage, there will still be heterosexual couples. Babies will still be made. Life will go on, whether or not it is natures intention or not.

 

[007]

Who are you talking about? I have intelligence, knowledge, reasoning ability, and common sense.

Nature does not dictate anything. It merely shows you what naturally is.
Do you have any irrefutable proof of this? Did this higher power and design create cancer and floods? If so, why did it not also create radiation therapy and dams? What great purpose does it have for the human tail bone? Did nature intend for man to use the bridge of his nose to hold reading glasses?

Why did the great designer intend for that? Was it just to make babies? If so, then perhaps contraceptives should be outlawed since they go against nature and Nature’s intention. What of infertile couples? What did nature/god intend for them? I guess that we should prohibit infertile people from uniting.

So basically that which is unpopular should not be allowed. That which most people find revolting should not be allowed. Is that right? I guess that it was right for Clinton to have been president. He was a good president for our nation since he won the popular vote.

I did not know that you are a neurosurgeon.

You can babble all that you want with your opinion. It is okay to be gay.
By the way, even with homosexuality and gay marriage, there will still be heterosexual couples. Babies will still be made. Life will go on, whether or not it is natures intention or not.

I should have expected as much matt... you responded with more of what I just said wasn't needed.... "absent minded psycho-babble... pure worthless, inane, prattle."

I have an idea, it should be just as entertaining as this... why don't you start arguing that someone that has a LEG growing out of their FORHEAD is normal. It makes about as much sense as to argue that homosexuality is normal or OK. Both can be recognized by a 3 year old as abnormal, yet you, as a self professed adult with "wisdom" and "common sense" can't see it. I'd be a little embarrassed of myself if I was you.

 

[Gem]

Pale Rider wrote:

Those are the types of people that will sit around and ponder why day is day and night is night. They're so damn smart that they lack even one ounce of common sense. When nature has already dictated how things work, and natures design is ultimately more complex than any man can philosophy, then there is no need for explanations or philosophical dissections. It's already been determined by a higher power and design. Nature. God. Whatever. Something smarter than man. But, it doesn't take but one ounce of common sense to see and understand that a man was design to mate, sexually, with a woman.

I don't think that anyone here or elsewhere would argue that in order to maintain the species - a male must mate with a female.

But as an evolved species, Pale Rider, you will surely agree that humans have found numerous reasons to do things that exceed or even go against their biological purpose.

- We gorge ourselves on too much food for no other reason than it tastes good. Other animals gorge - but they do it because biologically, their bodies and instinct are telling them that it might be awhile before they eat again, because other predators might take their food, or because they are preparing to hibernate. We know that none of those reasons apply to us...we just eat the last slice of pizza because we want to...

- We engage in unsafe activities for fun: driving too fast, jumping out of planes, skiing, getting tattoos. Things that biologically speaking - serve no purpose but to makes us happy, even though it could kill us. You don't see many dogs lining up to do things that serve no purpose but fun and could kill them...but humans, who are more advanced, know that sometimes its worth it.

- We do all sorts of things with our bodies that aren't biologically necessary...I kissed my nieces the other day...a completely biologically inappropriate use for my mouth - how disgusting!!!

You are absolutely right when you say that a male needs to mate with a female in order to further the species. But you can't deny the fact that humans do all sorts of things that go against our biological makeup. I don't see you on the message board raging about how a mouth is used for the intake and mastication of food and/or for communicating...but NOTHING ELSE!!! I don't see you on here screaming to the high heavens about the fact that many married couples have sex with NO INTENTION OF PROCREATING!!! So to use biology to rage against two people using their bodies for something other than making babies just because they are of the same sex....rings false.
And I think its because your objection to homosexuality does not come from a biological concern...but a moral one.

That is how it is. That is right. For a man to mate with man is wrong. It does NOT take a genius to figure that out.

You've attached "right" and "wrong." But I have a feeling thats your religious or spiritual beliefs talking...not your opinion of biology. I'm not here to argue that you shouldn't follow your religious beliefs...only that if you kissed someone hello or goodbye today that you may want to rethink your argument that there is only one way to use our bodies...

Normal physical reactions of revulsion will tell the normal person what's wrong and right. If you don't experience those normal physical revulsion's, then there's some wires crossed in your head and things aren't working as they were meant to.

Again...here's your "right" and "wrong." While I completely agree with you that homosexuality is not "normal," proven by the fact that the majority of humans practice heterosexuality and therefore those who do not are not the norm...I'm not sure why anyone should feel revulsion because someone chose to do something different than the norm (unless your religion or morality is coming into play).

You homo apologist and excuse makers can blab the psycho-babble from here to eternity, but at the end of the day homosexuality is STILL going to be a mental imbalance, an illness, a defect. No amount of gobbledee gook, blathering, irrelevant jibberish is going to change it.

You could be absolutely correct, in a way. It could be that homosexuality is something that occurs when wiring in the brain or body occurs differently when a child is developing in the womb from a heterosexual child. If that is the case, however, then why such vehemence against it? Why the nasty names? Do you point at people who were born with handicaps and call them dirty names? When someone with a learning disability asks to be treated with fairness and dignity do you accuse them of trying to force you into accepting them?

Again...if your religion leads you to believe that homosexuality is morally wrong - that is another issue. But the argument you have put forward in your last few posts is one of biology - which simply doesn't hold water. We, as humans use our bodies in numerous ways that differ from their most basic, biological intentions - and if homosexuality is a "defect," as you call it, or a difference biologically...then people who are gay have no more choice in the matter than you do in your sexual orientation.

Luckily for the continuation of our species...homosexuality occurs in vastly smaller numbers than heterosexuality...and us "breeders" still seem to enjoy propagating the species.

 

[mattskramer]

I should have expected as much matt... you responded with more of what I just said wasn't needed.... "absent minded psycho-babble... pure worthless, inane, prattle."

What I presented is no psycho-babble. It is sound logic and reasoning. As I expected, you give practically no logical rebuttal to my points. Look. Read up on common fallacies. Then, perhaps, we can have a reasonably intelligent debate.

I have an idea, it should be just as entertaining as this... why don't you start arguing that someone that has a LEG growing out of their FORHEAD is normal.

Such would not be normal. Yet, who is to say that such is right or wrong? Some animals fight each other to the death. That is normal. Does that make what they do right or wrong? Even though we are capable, my wife and I choose to not have children. Other couples choose to not have kids. Yet, very few people decide to not have children. Those who decide not to have kids might not be normal yet, are they wrong? Are they going against nature? Should they be required to have kids?

It makes about as much sense as to argue that homosexuality is normal or OK.

Wow! I’m glad that you made that distinction. Being normal and being OK are not synonymous. Perhaps I’m getting through to you.

Both can be recognized by a 3 year old as abnormal, yet you, as a self professed adult with "wisdom" and "common sense" can't see it. I'd be a little embarrassed of myself if I was you.

Did I ever say that homosexuality is not normal? No. Homosexuality is not normal. It is not the norm. My point is that such does not matter. Normalcy does not make something right or wrong. I am not at all embarrassed. You should be embarrassed for making so many glaring fallacious comments.

By the way, a 3-year-old is often wrong. Abstract and formal reasoning skills don’t usually appear until the child is 10 or 11 years old - and in some cases - never.

Stages of Intellectual Development In Children and Teenagers

 

[Nemo Securus]

Uh. Hello. I just said that what is normal or natural is not necessarily right or wrong. Sodomy might be wrong. It might not be wrong. It is a logical fallacy to conclude that it is wrong on the basis of it not being normal or natural.

Naturalistic fallacy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is not normal for a man to walk down the street and punch you in the face for no reason. I would consider such an act to be wrong.

Is it normal to swim in freezing water in the middle of winter while wearing almost nothing? Does it mean that such activity is wrong or right?

Ice swimming - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Good post! It may not be normal to be homosexual but as long as they are not harming you, why are people so obsessed with hating gay people?

 

[mattskramer]

Good post! It may not be normal to be homosexual but as long as they are not harming you, why are people so obsessed with hating gay people?

Thanks. There might or might not be other reasons for opposing gay behavior, gay relationships, or gay marriage. My main point is that arguing that they are wrong because they are not natural or normal is not one of them. Instead, It is a common faulty argument to make.

 

[Nemo Securus]

While we are on the topic of what is natural...Is it natural to have artificial limbs? No but I'm sure the people who benefit from them appreciate the science greatly. Is it natural to have a nice home with air conditioner and a computer, with which to discuss what is natural? No, but I doubt anyone on here would give up their home because it is not natural. How bout clothing, plumbing, restaurants, automobiles, medicine, I think you get the point. Basically everything in our lives is unnatural. That is to say man made, not given by the Earth. Sooo, that must not be the real reason for the hatred. Someone please explain the REAL reason for the hatred then. One that is not ignorant.

 

[mattskramer]

While we are on the topic of what is natural...Is it natural to have artificial limbs? No but I'm sure the people who benefit from them appreciate the science greatly. Is it natural to have a nice home with air conditioner and a computer, with which to discuss what is natural? No, but I doubt anyone on here would give up their home because it is not natural. How bout clothing, plumbing, restaurants, automobiles, medicine, I think you get the point. Basically everything in our lives is unnatural. That is to say man made, not given by the Earth. Sooo, that must not be the real reason for the hatred. Someone please explain the REAL reason for the hatred then. One that is not ignorant.

My favorite is “smoking cigarettes”. Is it natural to roll up dried leaves into a paper cylender, light one end of the tube, and inhale the smoke? Who is to say what is natural and what is not natural?

By the way, if it were natural for man to fly, then God would have given us wings instead of arms.

 

[Nemo Securus]

My favorite is “smoking cigarettes”. Is it natural to roll up dried leaves into a paper cylender, light one end of the tube, and inhale the smoke? Who is to say what is natural and what is not natural?

By the way, if it were natural for man to fly, then God would have given us wings instead of arms.

Amen! What is natural though, is for human beings to search out their possibilities and limitations in this world. Think about that and apply where necessary.

 

[glockmail]

My favorite is “smoking cigarettes”. Is it natural to roll up dried leaves into a paper cylender, light one end of the tube, and inhale the smoke? Who is to say what is natural and what is not natural?

By the way, if it were natural for man to fly, then God would have given us wings instead of arms.

Its not natural to smoke; not natural to fly; not natural to stick your pecker in a blender or up another man's ass.

 

[52ndStreet]

When will America realize that allowing Homosexuals to engage in Homosexuality, can only
legitimizes other illegal and perverted acts in American society.You can not allow a deviant perverted act in a society, and expect,murderers, rapist, and child molesters,
to feel that their perversions must be banned.

All perverted illegal acts must be banned and made illegal.Including Homosexuality!.
You can't out law a few sick perverted acts, and make one legal.Homosexuality must be made illegal.!

 

[jillian]

 

[dilloduck]

When will America realize that allowing Homosexuals to engage in Homosexuality, can only
legitimizes other illegal and perverted acts in American society.You can not allow a deviant perverted act in a society, and expect,murderers, rapist, and child molesters,
to feel that their perversions must be banned.

All perverted illegal acts must be banned and made illegal.Including Homosexuality!.
You can't out law a few sick perverted acts, and make one legal.Homosexuality must be made illegal.!

As long as Kirk gets to post, i think homos get to have their way with each other.

 

[Anguille]

When will America realize that allowing Homosexuals to engage in Homosexuality, can only
legitimizes other illegal and perverted acts in American society.You can not allow a deviant perverted act in a society, and expect,murderers, rapist, and child molesters,
to feel that their perversions must be banned.

All perverted illegal acts must be banned and made illegal.Including Homosexuality!.
You can't out law a few sick perverted acts, and make one legal.Homosexuality must be made illegal.!

Your post made my skin crawl. Your perverted hatred of homosexuals is a deviant, subversive act and should be banned. No doubt murderers, rapists and all kinds of bullys are rubbing their hands in glee to read your sick comments.

 

[AllieBaba]

I don't think it's about whether homosexuals get to have homosexual sex or not. It's about preserving marriage as a separate and special state, specific to men and women. It's the cornerstone of the family, and as such the cornerstone of society. That's not to say the few who step out of the norm should be persecuted, but it is wrong to mess with the cornerstone of family and society, thereby diminishing the specialness of a male/female union and disrupting society.

I don't think it should be illegal, but I don't think we should be forced to acknowledge it as the same situation as male/female unions.

 

[AllieBaba]

Your post made my skin crawl. Your perverted hatred of homosexuals is a deviant, subversive act and should be banned. No doubt murderers, rapists and all kinds of bullys are rubbing their hands in glee to read your sick comments.

I've no doubt your skin is crawling because you have untreated STDs and possibly a pretty healthy population of crabs.

 

[Glori.B]

Your post made my skin crawl. Your perverted hatred of homosexuals is a deviant, subversive act and should be banned. No doubt murderers, rapists and all kinds of bullys are rubbing their hands in glee to read your sick comments.

tell that to your muslim friend.

Political Forums is full of homos and especially lesbians.

Man oh man, did they go crazy when I would state that homosexuality is sick and perverted.

The admins were always sticking up for their "fudge packers"!

 

[52ndStreet]

Your post made my skin crawl. Your perverted hatred of homosexuals is a deviant, subversive act and should be banned. No doubt murderers, rapists and all kinds of bullys are rubbing their hands in glee to read your sick comments.

Sir I hope your skin will crawl enough ,to drive you to seek help to cure you
from any Homosexual activity, that you may engage in.
Any civilized person will realize, that allowing Homosexuality in any society,
can ultimately lead to the decay and decline of that society.It happened in Greece, and in Rome.Homosexuality is a perverted destructive act,that must
be banned in America.

It is also very unhygenic and bilogically unsound.
The human reproductive essences must never be squandered or discharge unless deposited
in the proper place.Sperm in female Vagina, not in rectum, or another man mouth.
We must adhear to the rules of human reproduction.