The reality behind Health Care Reform

[loosecannon]

What will come of this is more people will live and the US will come to its senses and send the Insurance cos who have created this mess to hell where they belong and we will get single payer for all.

If not now then when? The dems took single payer off the table from day one. These are the same folks who won't take nuking Iran off the table. Then they took the watered down public option off the table. What is left is a wishlist written by the insurance co's.

This was easily predictable when it was reported that the lobbying to launch a health care "reform" bill was paid for by the health insurance industry. What followed was a bait and switch scheme operated from the WH.

If we can't trust either the dems or the repubs to do the right thing even while health care costs are increasing more than 10%/year how will we ever get a single payer system if we can't do it now? Esp when these bills only make health insurance companies more powerful and "too big to fail".

You wait and see, within ten years we will be bailing out health insurance co's because they are unable to handle the costs of care as mandated by the exchanges.

Instead of A $37 trillion medicare liabilities shortfall we will have a $10 trillion insurance company bailout and our costs for healthcare will be 1/3 of our salary.

And the dems will be able to skate because they found a way to save medicare, provide insurance for everybody and never had to raise taxes to do it. It is brilliant, and evil.

 

[Oddball]

And the dems will be able to skate because they found a way to save medicare, provide insurance for everybody and never had to raise taxes to do it.

Wanna buy some nice seaside property in Arizona, cheap?

 

[Oddball]

So, what's the medical pathology that causes people to die from lack of purchase of any product?

there is none. Nobody ever died due to a lack of health insurance. People die because of natural causes. Period.

Health care can improve the odds of avoiding death by natural causes, but in the present system you don't need health insurance to get health care. But you will under the "reform care plan". You will no longer be able to contract directly with health care providers for care covered under the plans in the exchange. That option will no longer exist unless you do so illegally or leave the country to do so.

And food can improve the odds that you will not die the natural death of starvation.

And shelter can improve the odds that you will not die the natural death of exposeur.

Those aren't medical pathologies, simpleton.

 

[loosecannon]

And food can improve the odds that you will not die the natural death of starvation.

And shelter can improve the odds that you will not die the natural death of exposeur.

I would have survived 50 years with not one iotta of healthcare.

We have evolved into something un natural ugly and bizarre. People now MUST be kept alive by any affordable means until they emaciate and shrivel and finally expire after months or years bedridden and unable to even shit for themselves.

It is now routine to replace knees and heart valves, in fact people expect it simply because it can be done. With virtually no consideration given to any kind of mandate to preserve your own health via healthy living people expect, and often demand that medical care provide the miracle of longevity that they themselves often invested nothing into themselves.

We are an obese nation, eating poisonous food, living sedentary lives, plagued by diabetes and an ever increasing palate of degenerative diseases that we contributed to.

And we want medicine to fix all of that for us because it is our "right".

Medicine was supposed to be a last option if genetics, good luck and good living failed you. Not a substitute for our own personal health care.

Like I said, in ten years we will be spending 1/3 of our incomes to satisfy the gluttonous hunger for ever more and more health care that Americans seek to consume.

It's a bottomless pit.

 

[Truthmatters]

What will come of this is more people will live and the US will come to its senses and send the Insurance cos who have created this mess to hell where they belong and we will get single payer for all.

If not now then when? The dems took single payer off the table from day one. These are the same folks who won't take nuking Iran off the table. Then they took the watered down public option off the table. What is left is a wishlist written by the insurance co's.

This was easily predictable when it was reported that the lobbying to launch a health care "reform" bill was paid for by the health insurance industry. What followed was a bait and switch scheme operated from the WH.

If we can't trust either the dems or the repubs to do the right thing even while health care costs are increasing more than 10%/year how will we ever get a single payer system if we can't do it now? Esp when these bills only make health insurance companies more powerful and "too big to fail".

You wait and see, within ten years we will be bailing out health insurance co's because they are unable to handle the costs of care as mandated by the exchanges.

Instead of A $37 trillion medicare liabilities shortfall we will have a $10 trillion insurance company bailout and our costs for healthcare will be 1/3 of our salary.

And the dems will be able to skate because they found a way to save medicare, provide insurance for everybody and never had to raise taxes to do it. It is brilliant, and evil.

Nope in ten years the congress will have already won the needed public support to override the wheelings and dealings of the medical insurance scam. The people will end up with power.

 

[loosecannon]

And the dems will be able to skate because they found a way to save medicare, provide insurance for everybody and never had to raise taxes to do it.

Wanna buy some nice seaside property in Arizona, cheap?

I already have some, thanks tho.

 

[loosecannon]

Nope in ten years the congress will have already won the needed public support to override the wheelings and dealings of the medical insurance scam. The people will end up with power.

The congess already had that public support before the health care debate started. Nearly 70% of Americans favored a single payer option in January.

The people however can't win the support of Congress to serve us instead of the insurance giants.

 

[Truthmatters]

And food can improve the odds that you will not die the natural death of starvation.

And shelter can improve the odds that you will not die the natural death of exposeur.

I would have survived 50 years with not one iotta of healthcare.

We have evolved into something un natural ugly and bizarre. People now MUST be kept alive by any affordable means until they emaciate and shrivel and finally expire after months or years bedridden and unable to even shit for themselves.

It is now routine to replace knees and heart valves, in fact people expect it simply because it can be done. With virtually no consideration given to any kind of mandate to preserve your own health via healthy living people expect, and often demand that medical care provide the miracle of longevity that they themselves often invested nothing into themselves.

We are an obese nation, eating poisonous food, living sedentary lives, plagued by diabetes and an ever increasing palate of degenerative diseases that we contributed to.

And we want medicine to fix all of that for us because it is our "right".

Medicine was supposed to be a last option if genetics, good luck and good living failed you. Not a substitute for our own personal health care.

Like I said, in ten years we will be spending 1/3 of our incomes to satisfy the gluttonous hunger for ever more and more health care that Americans seek to consume.

It's a bottomless pit.

You like me were born with asskicking genes that sometimes make it hard for us to understand the lives of those who are not so lucky in the draw in life. We set broken bones and and bandage wounds along with treating ANY disease with all the knowledge we posses. This makes us better as a species NOT worse.

 

[mudwhistle]

The Raw Story » Study: 45,000 Americans die each year for lack of insurance

Its from a Harvard reseach center study asswink

Looks like your source changed the wording of the study's findings.

Here's the correct wording:

45,000 excess deaths annually linked to lack of health insurance: study

The new study, "Health Insurance and Mortality in U.S. Adults," appears in today's [Thursday's] online edition of the American Journal of Public Health.

The Harvard-based researchers found that uninsured, working-age Americans have a 40 percent higher risk of death than their privately insured counterparts, up from a 25 percent excess death rate found in 1993.
45,000 excess deaths annually linked to lack of health insurance: study

You see, I traced the story back to it's source and it turns out that the Harvard based researchers said* they have a higher risk*....not that 45,000 die every year. The writer then changed it to *causes 45,000 deaths* which totally changes what the researchers said.


Ohhhhhhh.......that's different!!!

 

[Truthmatters]

The Raw Story » Study: 45,000 Americans die each year for lack of insurance

Its from a Harvard reseach center study asswink

Looks like your source changed the wording of the study's findings.

Here's the correct wording:

45,000 excess deaths annually linked to lack of health insurance: study

The new study, "Health Insurance and Mortality in U.S. Adults," appears in today's [Thursday's] online edition of the American Journal of Public Health.

The Harvard-based researchers found that uninsured, working-age Americans have a 40 percent higher risk of death than their privately insured counterparts, up from a 25 percent excess death rate found in 1993.
45,000 excess deaths annually linked to lack of health insurance: study

You see, I traced the story back to it's source and it turns out that the Harvard based researchers said* they have a higher risk*....not that 45,000 die every year. The writer then changed it to *causes 45,000 deaths* which totally changes what the researchers said.


Ohhhhhhh.......that's different!!!

The study, which analyzed data from national surveys carried out by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), assessed death rates after taking education, income and many other factors including smoking, drinking and obesity into account. It estimated that lack of health insurance causes 44,789 excess deaths annually.

You are wrong again

 

[mudwhistle]

The Raw Story » Study: 45,000 Americans die each year for lack of insurance

Its from a Harvard reseach center study asswink

Looks like your source changed the wording of the study's findings.

Here's the correct wording:

45,000 excess deaths annually linked to lack of health insurance: study

The new study, "Health Insurance and Mortality in U.S. Adults," appears in today's [Thursday's] online edition of the American Journal of Public Health.

The Harvard-based researchers found that uninsured, working-age Americans have a 40 percent higher risk of death than their privately insured counterparts, up from a 25 percent excess death rate found in 1993.
45,000 excess deaths annually linked to lack of health insurance: study

You see, I traced the story back to it's source and it turns out that the Harvard based researchers said* they have a higher risk*....not that 45,000 die every year. The writer then changed it to *causes 45,000 deaths* which totally changes what the researchers said.


Ohhhhhhh.......that's different!!!

The study, which analyzed data from national surveys carried out by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), assessed death rates after taking education, income and many other factors including smoking, drinking and obesity into account. It estimated that lack of health insurance causes 44,789 excess deaths annually.

You are wrong again

Nope......an estimation is very different from causation.

 

[Truthmatters]

Annnnnnt!

wrong again, you claimed they never said anything about, 45,000 dying remember?

The fact is the studied found that nearly 45,000 AMERICANS die for want of healthcare.

You are denying facts yet again.

 

[Truthmatters]

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Quote: Originally Posted by Truthmatters
Quote: Originally Posted by mudwhistle
Quote: Originally Posted by Truthmatters
The Raw Story » Study: 45,000 Americans die each year for lack of insurance

Its from a Harvard reseach center study asswink
Looks like your source changed the wording of the study's findings.

Here's the correct wording:


Quote:

45,000 excess deaths annually linked to lack of health insurance: study

The new study, "Health Insurance and Mortality in U.S. Adults," appears in today's [Thursday's] online edition of the American Journal of Public Health.

The Harvard-based researchers found that uninsured, working-age Americans have a 40 percent higher risk of death than their privately insured counterparts, up from a 25 percent excess death rate found in 1993.
45,000 excess deaths annually linked to lack of health insurance: study
You see, I traced the story back to it's source and it turns out that the Harvard based researchers said* they have a higher risk*....not that 45,000 die every year. The writer then changed it to *causes 45,000 deaths* which totally changes what the researchers said.


Ohhhhhhh.......that's different!!!



REMEMBER?

 

[CurveLight]

Not a single response?

The whole "white people will become a minority in the next 20-30 years" was enough to wax any hope of intellectual honesty.

It is a fact, supported by none other than the US census bureau.

You. Don't. Know. What. You. Are. Talking. About.

Stop.

Now.

(or continue and further embarrass yourself)

 

[WillowTree]

The Raw Story » Study: 45,000 Americans die each year for lack of insurance

Its from a Harvard reseach center study asswink

so why is obamalama being genocidal?

 

[Truthmatters]

hey willow do you know how laws are made in this country?

You do realize the president doesnt have such powers even though Bush pretended to?

 

[loosecannon]

The study, which analyzed data from national surveys carried out by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), assessed death rates after taking education, income and many other factors including smoking, drinking and obesity into account. It estimated that lack of health insurance causes 44,789 excess deaths annually.

You are wrong again

Hardly. Health insurance neither causes nor prevents death.

Anybody can buy healthcare just like anybody can buy health insurance.

The problem you lament is either one of poverty or "other priorities". Or both.

 

[CurveLight]

The study, which analyzed data from national surveys carried out by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), assessed death rates after taking education, income and many other factors including smoking, drinking and obesity into account. It estimated that lack of health insurance causes 44,789 excess deaths annually.

You are wrong again

Hardly. Health insurance neither causes nor prevents death.

Anybody can buy healthcare just like anybody can buy health insurance.

The problem you lament is either one of poverty or "other priorities". Or both.

Thanks for proving again the lack of intellectual honesty. Maybe in your fantasy world healthcare and healthins can be bought by anyone who simply wishes to buy it. Outside of that crack filled snow globe it requires money.

(I can only guess how much bullshit will get slung now)

 

[loosecannon]

You like me were born with asskicking genes that sometimes make it hard for us to understand the lives of those who are not so lucky in the draw in life. We set broken bones and and bandage wounds along with treating ANY disease with all the knowledge we posses. This makes us better as a species NOT worse.

But we can't afford to treat every disease no matter what and blissfully ignore our health. It can't possibly be an entitlement to receive anything more than the most basic of healthcare unless the whole of society is extraordinarily healthy.

Left to their own perogatives nerd scientists would commit the entire surplus of the human population to hairbrained programs like particle accelerators, mars missions, and geostationary satelite solar farms in space.

Left to it's own devices the Military industrial complex would commit the entire surplus of the US toward weaponizing our military and wars of elective.

Likewise left to their own perogatives the healthcare industry, poisonous food industry and slothful Americans would commit the entire surplus of the nation to a never ending spiral of increased health services, increasing healthcare costs, more and more poisonous food, more and more slothful living.

That doesn't make us better as a species by a long shot.

I say we fund a single payer system, cap it at 7.5 % of GDP PERIOD, and simply make due. If you want more healthcare buy it!

Mark my words we are gonna end up paying 1/3 of our incomes on healthcare within 10 years. The demographics say so, the trend lines say so and the "reform bill" opens the barn door to let it happen.

Medicare doesn't have a $37 trillion liabilities shortfall for no reason ya know! I don't want that liability attached to my income any more than I want the national debt attached to my income. I didn't choose either one. And I am God Damned pissed that crooked politicians legislated me into something like $166,666.00 in debt because they can't govern within our means.

Enough is enough, this is way past reasonable.

 

[Oddball]

So what?

The entire notion that lack of insurance is the primary cause of any death, let alone 45,000 of them, is completely devoid of any evidence of cause/effect relationship.

Saying such a thing is only but slightly less ridiculous than claiming carrots are deadly, because everyone who has ever eaten them is dead or will die.