The Right Not To Be Offended

[Blagger]

Mind if I cut in?

Thanks.

PoliticalChic.

Hello, we meet at last. Although I agree with you, in the sense that in their very nature colleges, universities and similar places of higher learning that encourage outside thinking to stimulate and inject criticism should welcome debate in all forms, no matter how controversial, the legal fact remains that the building belongs to the governing board and they have the final say on what's classed acceptable behaviour within the property they own or are charged with overseeing/administering. I mean, even though it's classed as free speech, I can't see campus's in this age of kneejerk litigation allowing Neo Nazi properganda to be distributed on campus.

Ravi, hello, again.

This isn't a pre-school or infant environment where children that are of an age where politics has no business are being subjected to political propaganda. In short, they aren't children who need to be protected from political propaganda. Anyone knows that when you put yourself in an institute of higher learning, you're, at some point, going to rub sholders with political activists who will thrust political pamphlets/material under your nose. To think otherwise would be dangerously naive.

Again, inside the classroom should be off limits if the school deems it off limits. Walking through campus, at the student activities building, etc...all fine, imo. It has nothing to do with "protecting" students from differing views and has everything to do with actually learning the subject you've paid to be taught.

Blimey, Ravi, that's an uncharacteristically, yet refreshingly conservative observation you've made there. Bravo.

I jest, of course. Well, sort of.

Anyway.

These leaflets were left on chairs in a classroom that was unoccupied at the time of the 'drop'. The lecture/lesson wasn't noisily disrupted by a band of badge-festooned political subversives with a loudhailer. Surely you aren't telling us that the lesson's monetary value was inpinged upon by some pieces of paper left on empty chairs?

 

[Ravi]

Mind if I cut in?

Thanks.

PoliticalChic.

Hello, we meet at last. Although I agree with you, in the sense that in their very nature colleges, universities and similar places of higher learning that encourage outside thinking to stimulate and inject criticism should welcome debate in all forms, no matter how controversial, the legal fact remains that the building belongs to the governing board and they have the final say on what's classed acceptable behaviour within the property they own or are charged with overseeing/administering. I mean, even though it's classed as free speech, I can't see campus's in this age of kneejerk litigation allowing Neo Nazi properganda to be distributed on campus.

Ravi, hello, again.

This isn't a pre-school or infant environment where children that are of an age where politics has no business are being subjected to political propaganda. In short, they aren't children who need to be protected from political propaganda. Anyone knows that when you put yourself in an institute of higher learning, you're, at some point, going to rub sholders with political activists who will thrust political pamphlets/material under your nose. To think otherwise would be dangerously naive.

Again, inside the classroom should be off limits if the school deems it off limits. Walking through campus, at the student activities building, etc...all fine, imo. It has nothing to do with "protecting" students from differing views and has everything to do with actually learning the subject you've paid to be taught.

Blimey, Ravi, that's an uncharacteristically, yet refreshingly conservative observation you've made there. Bravo.

I jest, of course. Well, sort of.

Anyway.

These leaflets were left on chairs in a classroom that was unoccupied at the time of the 'drop'. The lecture/lesson wasn't noisily disrupted by a band of badge-festooned political subversives with a loudhailer. Surely you aren't telling us that the lesson's monetary value was inpinged upon by some pieces of paper left on empty chairs?

Absolutely it was...in this case and in the case of any literature being placed in a classroom in this manner.

 

[Big Fitz]

1. "Sinclair Community College has banned a student from distributing literature about abortion, birth control, and breast cancer to her classmates after class. The college also bans all distribution of literature on vast areas of campus.

2. “The right to distribute literature about controversial topics is one of Americans’ most hallowed rights,” FIRE [Foundation for Individual Rights in Education ] President Greg Lukianoff said. “If someone’s claim to be offended by speech were all it took to overrule the First Amendment, we would all be reduced to silence. Thankfully the Constitution does not recognize a ‘right not to be offended.’”

3. On February 22, FIRE sent a letter to SCC President Steven Lee Johnson, making clear that “while SCC instructors may limit the expression of students during class time in the service of SCC’s educational mission, such narrowly tailored restrictions for instructional purposes cannot lawfully be extended to restrict all distribution of literature outside of class time.”

4. However, the school defended their restriction of free speech rights.

So…

FIRE wrote Johnson a second letter on March 23, copying Ohio Governor John R. Kasich and Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine. FIRE asked Johnson to bring SCC’s policies into compliance with the First Amendment and to reply by March 30, but SCC has not responded. "
Dear College Officials: Apply the Constitution

5. It is critical to defend the Constitution, our rights under same...especially when so many folks see their 'good intentions' as superior to it.

 

[Anguille]

They put bibles in every hotel room.





just saying

Actually, they don't.

How much do you travel around the country? I sure do travel and am platinum member in a good deal of hotel chains. In EVERY room i stay there is a bible in the desk or in the night stand. How do i know this? Because it check my rooms before i unpack.

So as far as i can tell... yes they do put a bible in every room.


So how is that not being offensive? It is the same principal as what is being debated here. It too can be construed as littering.

Apparently you've never stayed in a Marriott, which puts Books of Mormon in the bedside table drawer. Nor in any of the hotels I've worked in which put no religious books at all in the rooms.
I'm sure that in most hotels, any guest that specifically requested no bible would be accommodated.

It's one thing to have a class disrupted because people have to remove flyers from the seats before they can sit down. Quite another to have an unwanted book tucked away in a drawer many people never use anyway.

 

[Ravi]

Actually, they don't.

How much do you travel around the country? I sure do travel and am platinum member in a good deal of hotel chains. In EVERY room i stay there is a bible in the desk or in the night stand. How do i know this? Because it check my rooms before i unpack.

So as far as i can tell... yes they do put a bible in every room.


So how is that not being offensive? It is the same principal as what is being debated here. It too can be construed as littering.

Apparently you've never stayed in a Marriott, which puts Books of Mormon in the bedside table drawer. Nor in any of the hotels I've worked in which put no religious books at all in the rooms.
I'm sure that in most hotels, any guest that specifically requested no bible would be accommodated.

It's one thing to have a class disrupted because people have to remove flyers from the seats before they can sit down. Quite another to have an unwanted book tucked away in a drawer many people never use anyway.

Yep this entire bible in the drawer is a big non sequitor.

Personally I like to use them to build little fires because they make very good kindling.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Actually, they don't.

How much do you travel around the country? I sure do travel and am platinum member in a good deal of hotel chains. In EVERY room i stay there is a bible in the desk or in the night stand. How do i know this? Because it check my rooms before i unpack.

So as far as i can tell... yes they do put a bible in every room.


So how is that not being offensive? It is the same principal as what is being debated here. It too can be construed as littering.

Apparently you've never stayed in a Marriott, which puts Books of Mormon in the bedside table drawer. Nor in any of the hotels I've worked in which put no religious books at all in the rooms.
I'm sure that in most hotels, any guest that specifically requested no bible would be accommodated.

It's one thing to have a class disrupted because people have to remove flyers from the seats before they can sit down. Quite another to have an unwanted book tucked away in a drawer many people never use anyway.

"It's one thing to have a class disrupted because people have to remove flyers from the seats before they can sit down."

Disrupt:

1. To throw into confusion or disorder: Protesters disrupted the candidate's speech.
2. To interrupt or impede the progress, movement, or procedure of: Our efforts in the garden were disrupted by an early frost.
3. To break or burst; rupture.
disruption - definition of disruption by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.


No, really....do you write for Seinfeld??

He asked if doormen should really go on strike, as it would point out how folks really don't need them....
"How do we get out of here? What is that brass round thing? What do we do with it??"

I see your fingerprints all over that bit!

OMG- a flyer on the seat?? How should we handle this disruption????

Oh, that's good.


Can you get me tickets?

 

[Anguille]

Mind if I cut in?

Thanks.

PoliticalChic.

Hello, we meet at last. Although I agree with you, in the sense that in their very nature colleges, universities and similar places of higher learning that encourage outside thinking to stimulate and inject criticism should welcome debate in all forms, no matter how controversial, the legal fact remains that the building belongs to the governing board and they have the final say on what's classed acceptable behaviour within the property they own or are charged with overseeing/administering. I mean, even though it's classed as free speech, I can't see campus's in this age of kneejerk litigation allowing Neo Nazi properganda to be distributed on campus.

Ravi, hello, again.

This isn't a pre-school or infant environment where children that are of an age where politics has no business are being subjected to political propaganda. In short, they aren't children who need to be protected from political propaganda. Anyone knows that when you put yourself in an institute of higher learning, you're, at some point, going to rub sholders with political activists who will thrust political pamphlets/material under your nose. To think otherwise would be dangerously naive.

Again, inside the classroom should be off limits if the school deems it off limits. Walking through campus, at the student activities building, etc...all fine, imo. It has nothing to do with "protecting" students from differing views and has everything to do with actually learning the subject you've paid to be taught.

Blimey, Ravi, that's an uncharacteristically, yet refreshingly conservative observation you've made there. Bravo.

I jest, of course. Well, sort of.

Anyway.

These leaflets were left on chairs in a classroom that was unoccupied at the time of the 'drop'. The lecture/lesson wasn't noisily disrupted by a band of badge-festooned political subversives with a loudhailer. Surely you aren't telling us that the lesson's monetary value was inpinged upon by some pieces of paper left on empty chairs?

Blimey, Swagger!! At one point the classroom does become occupied and the disruption comes when people have to clear off the leaflets and find a barrel to toss them into.

 

[Big Fitz]

Actually, they don't.

How much do you travel around the country? I sure do travel and am platinum member in a good deal of hotel chains. In EVERY room i stay there is a bible in the desk or in the night stand. How do i know this? Because it check my rooms before i unpack.

So as far as i can tell... yes they do put a bible in every room.


So how is that not being offensive? It is the same principal as what is being debated here. It too can be construed as littering.

Apparently you've never stayed in a Marriott, which puts Books of Mormon in the bedside table drawer. Nor in any of the hotels I've worked in which put no religious books at all in the rooms.
I'm sure that in most hotels, any guest that specifically requested no bible would be accommodated.

It's one thing to have a class disrupted because people have to remove flyers from the seats before they can sit down. Quite another to have an unwanted book tucked away in a drawer many people never use anyway.

As a former AGM for a marriott chain, I can tell you that is NOT company policy. It may be a local franchise or Utah. I don't know. But it is NOT a chain wide thing.

I've also worked for 6 different hotel chains over the years and every last one would get deliveries from the Gideons asking permission from the local management to have them placed in the rooms. They are put in the rooms by housekeeping and left in a drawer unattended till someone destroys one because they're an asshole (yes Ravi, if you do this I do mean you), or if a guest requests one.

 

[Anguille]

or a dustbin or whatever you people call them.

 

[PoliticalChic]

How much do you travel around the country? I sure do travel and am platinum member in a good deal of hotel chains. In EVERY room i stay there is a bible in the desk or in the night stand. How do i know this? Because it check my rooms before i unpack.

So as far as i can tell... yes they do put a bible in every room.


So how is that not being offensive? It is the same principal as what is being debated here. It too can be construed as littering.

Apparently you've never stayed in a Marriott, which puts Books of Mormon in the bedside table drawer. Nor in any of the hotels I've worked in which put no religious books at all in the rooms.
I'm sure that in most hotels, any guest that specifically requested no bible would be accommodated.

It's one thing to have a class disrupted because people have to remove flyers from the seats before they can sit down. Quite another to have an unwanted book tucked away in a drawer many people never use anyway.

Yep this entire bible in the drawer is a big non sequitor.

Personally I like to use them to build little fires because they make very good kindling.

Gee, you didn't say that about the Pastor who burned the Koran....

but then, as Emerson said, A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.

 

[Anguille]

How much do you travel around the country? I sure do travel and am platinum member in a good deal of hotel chains. In EVERY room i stay there is a bible in the desk or in the night stand. How do i know this? Because it check my rooms before i unpack.

So as far as i can tell... yes they do put a bible in every room.


So how is that not being offensive? It is the same principal as what is being debated here. It too can be construed as littering.

Apparently you've never stayed in a Marriott, which puts Books of Mormon in the bedside table drawer. Nor in any of the hotels I've worked in which put no religious books at all in the rooms.
I'm sure that in most hotels, any guest that specifically requested no bible would be accommodated.

It's one thing to have a class disrupted because people have to remove flyers from the seats before they can sit down. Quite another to have an unwanted book tucked away in a drawer many people never use anyway.

As a former AGM for a marriott chain, I can tell you that is NOT company policy. It may be a local franchise or Utah. I don't know. But it is NOT a chain wide thing.

I've only once opened a bedside table drawer in a Marriott and the was in Springfield, MA. I just assumed it was company policy. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Big Fitz]

Apparently you've never stayed in a Marriott, which puts Books of Mormon in the bedside table drawer. Nor in any of the hotels I've worked in which put no religious books at all in the rooms.
I'm sure that in most hotels, any guest that specifically requested no bible would be accommodated.

It's one thing to have a class disrupted because people have to remove flyers from the seats before they can sit down. Quite another to have an unwanted book tucked away in a drawer many people never use anyway.

As a former AGM for a marriott chain, I can tell you that is NOT company policy. It may be a local franchise or Utah. I don't know. But it is NOT a chain wide thing.

I've only once opened a bedside table drawer in a Marriott and the was in Springfield, MA. I just assumed it was company policy. Thanks for clarifying.

No problem.

 

[syrenn]

Actually, they don't.

How much do you travel around the country? I sure do travel and am platinum member in a good deal of hotel chains. In EVERY room i stay there is a bible in the desk or in the night stand. How do i know this? Because it check my rooms before i unpack.

So as far as i can tell... yes they do put a bible in every room.


So how is that not being offensive? It is the same principal as what is being debated here. It too can be construed as littering.

Apparently you've never stayed in a Marriott, which puts Books of Mormon in the bedside table drawer. Nor in any of the hotels I've worked in which put no religious books at all in the rooms.
I'm sure that in most hotels, any guest that specifically requested no bible would be accommodated.

It's one thing to have a class disrupted because people have to remove flyers from the seats before they can sit down. Quite another to have an unwanted book tucked away in a drawer many people never use anyway.

Bible, book of morman, koran....all the same as far as i am concerned. I dont look to see what religion is being hawked i just know that it is there. I don't see the flyers as being any less disruptive as the books in draws.

If you don't like them move them or toss them in the trash. There is nothing disruptive or offensive about that.

 

[Two Thumbs]

From what I understand she was distributing them in class. She has no "freedom of speech" right to do so and that ya'll think she does just proves how stupid conservatives really are.

ahh, Ravi, you really should read the link, or at least the first paragraph;

Dear College Officials: Apply the Constitution

Sinclair Community College has banned a student from distributing literature about abortion, birth control, and breast cancer to her classmates after class. The college also bans all distribution of literature on vast areas of campus. Student Ethel Borel-Donohue, who never disrupted class with her literature, came to the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education (FIRE) for help.


The horror of us conservatives coming to the defence of free speech!! How dare we!!

 

[Two Thumbs]

Group: Ohio college's policy violates free speech rights | Lancaster Eagle Gazette | lancastereaglegazette.com

Thanks Ravi.

Sinclair general counsel Lauren Ross said Wednesday that the policy does not violate free speech rights.

"A college has the absolute right to regulate activity like that in a classroom," Ross said.

Student Ethel Borel-Donohue was in a classroom when she distributed the fliers, leaving them on chairs, Ross said.

So, they do allege she distributed them in the classroom. That information is not mentioned in other articles.

So, I would need some confirmation one way or the other before I jump on one side or the other.

In a class room, not during class.

there may be a little 'hmm' to do here.

Off hand she is not disturbing class in anyway, however there are rules about doing such in the classroom.

Is the rule unconstitutional or is it a "when you signed up, you agreed to follow our rules" kinda thing?

 

[Anguille]

How much do you travel around the country? I sure do travel and am platinum member in a good deal of hotel chains. In EVERY room i stay there is a bible in the desk or in the night stand. How do i know this? Because it check my rooms before i unpack.

So as far as i can tell... yes they do put a bible in every room.


So how is that not being offensive? It is the same principal as what is being debated here. It too can be construed as littering.

Apparently you've never stayed in a Marriott, which puts Books of Mormon in the bedside table drawer. Nor in any of the hotels I've worked in which put no religious books at all in the rooms.
I'm sure that in most hotels, any guest that specifically requested no bible would be accommodated.

It's one thing to have a class disrupted because people have to remove flyers from the seats before they can sit down. Quite another to have an unwanted book tucked away in a drawer many people never use anyway.

Bible, book of morman, koran....all the same as far as i am concerned. I dont look to see what religion is being hawked i just know that it is there. I don't see the flyers as being any less disruptive as the books in draws.

If you don't like them move them or toss them in the trash. There is nothing disruptive or offensive about that.

Having been a teacher, I would find it disruptive if my students had to clean off their seats before they could sit down.

 

[Two Thumbs]

1. Let's cut right to the chase, here. The depth of your erroneous thinking can be plumbed in this one sentence:
" You'd be perfectly happy to see planned parenthood brochures and/or korans left on chairs in classrooms?"

Yes.

Perfectly. And would be just as able to smile civiliy, or argue intellectually, as my mood suited.

Don't you understand....conservatives don't insist, require or even desire unanimity of thinking, unlike you folks on the Left.

We don't want to silence those who don't agree with us, rather we embrace variety rather than 'equality.'


2. And, -there is no sarcasm in the following- I must tell you how much I appreciate posts by folks like you, or Midcan, or the other doctrinaire liberals/progressives/whatever for without those willing and able to propound said point of view, this board would be hideously boring.

Your tenets are based on feeling and emotion, and a desire to quash the oppositon. I find it far easier to champion logic and liberty, and, it seems to me that conservative ideas will always win in the marketplace of ideas.

So, Bravo!

This saddens me. I would not like any of it left on chairs in classrooms. Classrooms have a specific purpose and distributing political literature is not one of those purposes.

If the school wants it your way, fine. But no one has the right to do it if the school says no...and again, this isn't a freedom of speech issue.

Well, call me a liberal.... I agree with Ravi.

Why?

It's not a private school, it's a community college. Aren't community colleges, public schools?

one can have rigorous rules and regs the other having limited ones?

 

[syrenn]

Apparently you've never stayed in a Marriott, which puts Books of Mormon in the bedside table drawer. Nor in any of the hotels I've worked in which put no religious books at all in the rooms.
I'm sure that in most hotels, any guest that specifically requested no bible would be accommodated.

It's one thing to have a class disrupted because people have to remove flyers from the seats before they can sit down. Quite another to have an unwanted book tucked away in a drawer many people never use anyway.

Bible, book of morman, koran....all the same as far as i am concerned. I dont look to see what religion is being hawked i just know that it is there. I don't see the flyers as being any less disruptive as the books in draws.

If you don't like them move them or toss them in the trash. There is nothing disruptive or offensive about that.

Having been a teacher, I would find it disruptive if my students had to clean off their seats before they could sit down.

Right. YOU would find it disruptive..would they? Usually you are in your seat before class starts. So all of the clearing off of the seats would have occurred before your began class. No disruption of class involved.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Apparently you've never stayed in a Marriott, which puts Books of Mormon in the bedside table drawer. Nor in any of the hotels I've worked in which put no religious books at all in the rooms.
I'm sure that in most hotels, any guest that specifically requested no bible would be accommodated.

It's one thing to have a class disrupted because people have to remove flyers from the seats before they can sit down. Quite another to have an unwanted book tucked away in a drawer many people never use anyway.

Bible, book of morman, koran....all the same as far as i am concerned. I dont look to see what religion is being hawked i just know that it is there. I don't see the flyers as being any less disruptive as the books in draws.

If you don't like them move them or toss them in the trash. There is nothing disruptive or offensive about that.

Having been a teacher, I would find it disruptive if my students had to clean off their seats before they could sit down.

See, now you aren't looking at the service being provided by having flyers on the seats of the gravitationally challenged students...the short ones.

The flyers will increase the height of those, bringing joy to the shorties who never got over the attack by Randy Newman....


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NvgLkuEtkA]YouTube - Randy Newman - Short People[/ame]

 

[Two Thumbs]

Mind if I cut in?

Thanks.

PoliticalChic.

Hello, we meet at last. Although I agree with you, in the sense that in their very nature colleges, universities and similar places of higher learning that encourage outside thinking to stimulate and inject criticism should welcome debate in all forms, no matter how controversial, the legal fact remains that the building belongs to the governing board and they have the final say on what's classed acceptable behaviour within the property they own or are charged with overseeing/administering. I mean, even though it's classed as free speech, I can't see campus's in this age of kneejerk litigation allowing Neo Nazi properganda to be distributed on campus.

Ravi, hello, again.

This isn't a pre-school or infant environment where children that are of an age where politics has no business are being subjected to political propaganda. In short, they aren't children who need to be protected from political propaganda. Anyone knows that when you put yourself in an institute of higher learning, you're, at some point, going to rub sholders with political activists who will thrust political pamphlets/material under your nose. To think otherwise would be dangerously naive.

WTF IS GOING ON!!!

CG is a liberal.
And Swagger, fukkin SWAGGER is the voice of reason.

I need to cut back on the antihistamines, they are screwing with my reality.