The Value of Education by the numbers

[psikeyhackr]

What Does It Mean to be Educated?
What Does It Mean to be Educated?

psik

 

[BillyV]

College is an obsolete aristocratic instution and must be replaced with paid professional training. The present institution amounts to your Daddy buying you a job, or, if he can't afford that, living like a high-school kid until you graduate because you are afraid to grow up. The real statistic is not that college graduates make more in their lifetime, but that the children of those who make more also make more. The unAmerican aristocrats cover that up by claiming it's their brats' education.
But the ignorant and dyfunctional English of college graduates proves that most of them had no more right to be in college than to be on the college football team, which is based on talent. With expensive housing, expensive food, and expensive entertainment, college athletes get the equivalent of $400 a week plus free tuition. That is the only way to develop talent. The indentured servitude of the present system puts inferior people in superior positions; it is the unspoken cause of the downturn in the economy for the last 50 years.

$1 trillion in student loans outstanding and the level of Pell Grants and other financial aid provided each year proves that is pure crap. Yes, there are college atheletes that get a free pass and often are not up to college level even when they "graduate." But they are a distinct minority of total college students. The numbers speak for themselves, from IRS statistics, 2010 household incomes (www.irs.gov):

Table H-13. Educational Attainment of Householder--Households with Householder 25 Years Old and Over by Median and Mean Income: 2010


Median Mean
$21,254 $30,232 Less than 9th grade
$24,787 $34,138 9th to 12th grade (no diploma)
$38,976 $50,561 High School Graduate (includes equivalency)
$48,722 $61,026 Some College, No Degree
$56,811 $67,790 Associate Degree
$82,109 $104,555 Bachelor's Degree or More

Believe me when I tell you, the degree is worth it; a bachelor's could be worth as much as $1.7 million additional mean income in a 40 year career over a high school degree.

 

[code1211]

I'm new here, so this topic has probably already been discussed ad infinitum, so pardon the redundancy if it has. I think what is dragging the economy down significantly is the number of high school drop-outs. First and foremost our country needs to address this and find a way for kid's to take school seriously; or be on the government dole for the rest of their lives. Jobs today require some sort of education.

Unemployment rate: November 2011

Education Level Achieved
Less than
High School.............................13.2%

High School Grad
No College...............................8.8%

Some College
or Associate Degree .................7.6%

Bachelor's Degree
or Higher..................................4.4%

I'm a little surprised the numbers in these categories are as low as they are.

 

[PrometheusBound]

College is an obsolete aristocratic instution and must be replaced with paid professional training. The present institution amounts to your Daddy buying you a job, or, if he can't afford that, living like a high-school kid until you graduate because you are afraid to grow up. The real statistic is not that college graduates make more in their lifetime, but that the children of those who make more also make more. The unAmerican aristocrats cover that up by claiming it's their brats' education.
But the ignorant and dyfunctional English of college graduates proves that most of them had no more right to be in college than to be on the college football team, which is based on talent. With expensive housing, expensive food, and expensive entertainment, college athletes get the equivalent of $400 a week plus free tuition. That is the only way to develop talent. The indentured servitude of the present system puts inferior people in superior positions; it is the unspoken cause of the downturn in the economy for the last 50 years.

$1 trillion in student loans outstanding and the level of Pell Grants and other financial aid provided each year proves that is pure crap. Yes, there are college atheletes that get a free pass and often are not up to college level even when they "graduate." But they are a distinct minority of total college students. The numbers speak for themselves, from IRS statistics, 2010 household incomes (www.irs.gov):

Table H-13. Educational Attainment of Householder--Households with Householder 25 Years Old and Over by Median and Mean Income: 2010


Median Mean
$21,254 $30,232 Less than 9th grade
$24,787 $34,138 9th to 12th grade (no diploma)
$38,976 $50,561 High School Graduate (includes equivalency)
$48,722 $61,026 Some College, No Degree
$56,811 $67,790 Associate Degree
$82,109 $104,555 Bachelor's Degree or More

Believe me when I tell you, the degree is worth it; a bachelor's could be worth as much as $1.7 million additional mean income in a 40 year career over a high school degree.

Unless you get the most talented people and get them study, the trillion in loans is wasted. Your chart can't say whether the Diploma Dumboes who made that money actually deserved their jobs. I don't see how they could under this childish, depressing, and insulting requirement. The only students whose talent the university cares about are the athletes. What kind of football team would they be able to recruit if the players had to live like the rest of the students? Preppies and wannabes.
Your denial of this shows the typical lack of logic of these generic college graduates. Sacrifice has no merit; it is merely brown-nosing. A diploma under these talent-insulting conditions performs the same function in America as a Communist Party membership card did in the defunct Soviet Union. That's why we are going downhill, because no one questions whether this slave education puts inferior people in superior positions.

 

[BillyV]

College is an obsolete aristocratic instution and must be replaced with paid professional training. The present institution amounts to your Daddy buying you a job, or, if he can't afford that, living like a high-school kid until you graduate because you are afraid to grow up. The real statistic is not that college graduates make more in their lifetime, but that the children of those who make more also make more. The unAmerican aristocrats cover that up by claiming it's their brats' education.
But the ignorant and dyfunctional English of college graduates proves that most of them had no more right to be in college than to be on the college football team, which is based on talent. With expensive housing, expensive food, and expensive entertainment, college athletes get the equivalent of $400 a week plus free tuition. That is the only way to develop talent. The indentured servitude of the present system puts inferior people in superior positions; it is the unspoken cause of the downturn in the economy for the last 50 years.

$1 trillion in student loans outstanding and the level of Pell Grants and other financial aid provided each year proves that is pure crap. Yes, there are college atheletes that get a free pass and often are not up to college level even when they "graduate." But they are a distinct minority of total college students. The numbers speak for themselves, from IRS statistics, 2010 household incomes (www.irs.gov):

Table H-13. Educational Attainment of Householder--Households with Householder 25 Years Old and Over by Median and Mean Income: 2010


Median Mean
$21,254 $30,232 Less than 9th grade
$24,787 $34,138 9th to 12th grade (no diploma)
$38,976 $50,561 High School Graduate (includes equivalency)
$48,722 $61,026 Some College, No Degree
$56,811 $67,790 Associate Degree
$82,109 $104,555 Bachelor's Degree or More

Believe me when I tell you, the degree is worth it; a bachelor's could be worth as much as $1.7 million additional mean income in a 40 year career over a high school degree.

Unless you get the most talented people and get them study, the trillion in loans is wasted. Your chart can't say whether the Diploma Dumboes who made that money actually deserved their jobs. I don't see how they could under this childish, depressing, and insulting requirement. The only students whose talent the university cares about are the athletes. What kind of football team would they be able to recruit if the players had to live like the rest of the students? Preppies and wannabes.
Your denial of this shows the typical lack of logic of these generic college graduates. Sacrifice has no merit; it is merely brown-nosing. A diploma under these talent-insulting conditions performs the same function in America as a Communist Party membership card did in the defunct Soviet Union. That's why we are going downhill, because no one questions whether this slave education puts inferior people in superior positions.

“Deserved their jobs?” I don’t know how to respond to that, other than to say that the free market tends to separate the wheat from the chaff; the diploma only earns you entry, not success. And by the way, they do get the most talented people by requiring a certain level of SAT scores and grades from high school, with the limited exceptions of star atheletes (again, very small minority) and affirmative action programs. Yes, the universities love star athletes and big time sports programs – not because they love the athletes, but because the notoriety attracts thousands of students, their main concern.
As for “sacrifice has no merit” that sounds like something right out of the OWS playbook. Employers look at a college graduate as someone who was able to set aside instant gratification and spend four years preparing for a better future as well as someone who has the intelligence to fit the position offered. That person is more likely to be steady and a better problem solver. Given that the company will be investing thousands and sometimes tens of thousands of dollars in a new employee before they are able to contribute, they want those most likely to succeed. A diploma is an indication of that.
Your comparison of a college diploma that you have to work very hard for and pay for often on your own to a Communist Party membership is insulting. You know, life may not be fair, but there are certain paths you can choose that make it more likely you will succeed; whining and complaining about fairness while doing nothing isn’t one of them.

 

[rdean]

Progressives have intentionally sabotaged our educational system

 

[rdean]

High school graduation rates are an interesting thing.

In the county that I live in, the school board/public education system calculates the graduation rate based upon the number of students that enter their senior year of high school vs the number that graduate. They report an 89% graduation rate.

However, if one digs a little deeper and compares the number of students that enter their freshman year of high school vs the number that actually graduate 4 years later, that number drops to only 66% graduation rate.
There is one thing missing from this calculation though. It is two hard numbers. X entered high school and 4 years later Y graduated. It doesn't take into account the number of new students that moved into the school system during those 4 years, and this is a growing area (over 900,000 people live in the county today vs 700,000 ten years ago). In the past 20 years, the number of students in high school has increased every year due to the number of people moving into this area.
About a year ago a local reporter did an analysis of the county high school education system and did her best to include the factors of people moving into the county and moving out of the county. Her final estimate was that a mere 51% of entering freshmen actually graduated high school.

There is a lot of talk about trying to provide higher education (college) to as many students as possible, usually via some sort of government funding such as Pell grants. My problem with that is that when almost half the students can't even manage to get a high school diploma it is a waste of effort and resources to try and get them a college degree.

Don't you have to graduated HS to go to college? I did. So where is the problem?

 

[rdean]

I'm new here, so this topic has probably already been discussed ad infinitum, so pardon the redundancy if it has. I think what is dragging the economy down significantly is the number of high school drop-outs. First and foremost our country needs to address this and find a way for kid's to take school seriously; or be on the government dole for the rest of their lives. Jobs today require some sort of education.

Unemployment rate: November 2011

Education Level Achieved
Less than
High School.............................13.2%

High School Grad
No College...............................8.8%

Some College
or Associate Degree .................7.6%

Bachelor's Degree
or Higher..................................4.4%

What is the other 66%?

 

[rdean]

The Department of Education needs to be eliminated and the UFT needs to be disbanded, their top leadership jailed for sedition.

 

[alan1]

High school graduation rates are an interesting thing.

In the county that I live in, the school board/public education system calculates the graduation rate based upon the number of students that enter their senior year of high school vs the number that graduate. They report an 89% graduation rate.

However, if one digs a little deeper and compares the number of students that enter their freshman year of high school vs the number that actually graduate 4 years later, that number drops to only 66% graduation rate.
There is one thing missing from this calculation though. It is two hard numbers. X entered high school and 4 years later Y graduated. It doesn't take into account the number of new students that moved into the school system during those 4 years, and this is a growing area (over 900,000 people live in the county today vs 700,000 ten years ago). In the past 20 years, the number of students in high school has increased every year due to the number of people moving into this area.
About a year ago a local reporter did an analysis of the county high school education system and did her best to include the factors of people moving into the county and moving out of the county. Her final estimate was that a mere 51% of entering freshmen actually graduated high school.

There is a lot of talk about trying to provide higher education (college) to as many students as possible, usually via some sort of government funding such as Pell grants. My problem with that is that when almost half the students can't even manage to get a high school diploma it is a waste of effort and resources to try and get them a college degree.

Don't you have to graduated HS to go to college? I did. So where is the problem?

No, one doesn't need to graduate high school to go to college.
I'll go ahead and explain it to you since you appear to be clueless on the subject matter, and assume that your experience applies to everybody that ever existed.

A high school dropout can attend a Community College (commonly known as a Jr College) and receive government (tax payer) funding to do so.

 

[alan1]

Don't you have to graduated HS to go to college? I did. So where is the problem?

Just pointing out rdean's failed grasp of the English language and grammar that he acquired from his public education.

 

[PrometheusBound]

$1 trillion in student loans outstanding and the level of Pell Grants and other financial aid provided each year proves that is pure crap. Yes, there are college atheletes that get a free pass and often are not up to college level even when they "graduate." But they are a distinct minority of total college students. The numbers speak for themselves, from IRS statistics, 2010 household incomes (www.irs.gov):

Table H-13. Educational Attainment of Householder--Households with Householder 25 Years Old and Over by Median and Mean Income: 2010


Median Mean
$21,254 $30,232 Less than 9th grade
$24,787 $34,138 9th to 12th grade (no diploma)
$38,976 $50,561 High School Graduate (includes equivalency)
$48,722 $61,026 Some College, No Degree
$56,811 $67,790 Associate Degree
$82,109 $104,555 Bachelor's Degree or More

Believe me when I tell you, the degree is worth it; a bachelor's could be worth as much as $1.7 million additional mean income in a 40 year career over a high school degree.

Unless you get the most talented people and get them study, the trillion in loans is wasted. Your chart can't say whether the Diploma Dumboes who made that money actually deserved their jobs. I don't see how they could under this childish, depressing, and insulting requirement. The only students whose talent the university cares about are the athletes. What kind of football team would they be able to recruit if the players had to live like the rest of the students? Preppies and wannabes.
Your denial of this shows the typical lack of logic of these generic college graduates. Sacrifice has no merit; it is merely brown-nosing. A diploma under these talent-insulting conditions performs the same function in America as a Communist Party membership card did in the defunct Soviet Union. That's why we are going downhill, because no one questions whether this slave education puts inferior people in superior positions.

“Deserved their jobs?” I don’t know how to respond to that, other than to say that the free market tends to separate the wheat from the chaff; the diploma only earns you entry, not success. And by the way, they do get the most talented people by requiring a certain level of SAT scores and grades from high school, with the limited exceptions of star atheletes (again, very small minority) and affirmative action programs. Yes, the universities love star athletes and big time sports programs – not because they love the athletes, but because the notoriety attracts thousands of students, their main concern.
As for “sacrifice has no merit” that sounds like something right out of the OWS playbook. Employers look at a college graduate as someone who was able to set aside instant gratification and spend four years preparing for a better future as well as someone who has the intelligence to fit the position offered. That person is more likely to be steady and a better problem solver. Given that the company will be investing thousands and sometimes tens of thousands of dollars in a new employee before they are able to contribute, they want those most likely to succeed. A diploma is an indication of that.
Your comparison of a college diploma that you have to work very hard for and pay for often on your own to a Communist Party membership is insulting. You know, life may not be fair, but there are certain paths you can choose that make it more likely you will succeed; whining and complaining about fairness while doing nothing isn’t one of them.

What does someone's ability to work without pay (in college) have to do with his ability to work when he is being paid to do so? This sacrifice is just a power play by the employers to get the most slavish employees. As for the free market weeding out the incompetent, what if the group as a whole is inferior to what we would get if talent were rewarded up-front. Again, you could say the same thing about college football players if all the draft picks had to work their way through college. Even the ones who starred in the NFl would prove nothing if done against pros who were inferior as a whole. Something like this actually happened when the NFL didn't pay very much. It is really hypocritical to call college indentured servitude "delayed gratification." Besides, these brown-noses are very bitter about their sacrifice and become crooks or workoholic zombies to make up for lost time.

If we replaced this institution with paid professional training, only the smartest would get into college. Those who support the system know they wouldn't make the cut if it were biased in favor of our best human resources. Also, this slur about whining reveals someone who knows he's got the whole ruling class in his favor and wants to get brownie points by calling anyone with the independence to defy their imposed systems a weakling.

 

[rdean]

Don't you have to graduated HS to go to college? I did. So where is the problem?

Just pointing out rdean's failed grasp of the English language and grammar that he acquired from his public education.

Oh please. So I don't always reread everything I type. Pretty lame if you ask me.

 

[rdean]

Don't you have to graduated HS to go to college? I did. So where is the problem?

Just pointing out rdean's failed grasp of the English language and grammar that he acquired from his public education.

Funny, I was going through your previous posts to get an idea of your positions. Since most are 10 words or less, it's difficult to know. I couldn't find any links. In fact, most seemed to be what you imagine is a "smug" comment, but with no substance.
Either that's saying nothing about you,
Something about you,
or Everything about you.

 

[alan1]

Don't you have to graduated HS to go to college? I did. So where is the problem?

Just pointing out rdean's failed grasp of the English language and grammar that he acquired from his public education.

Funny, I was going through your previous posts to get an idea of your positions. Since most are 10 words or less, it's difficult to know. I couldn't find any links. In fact, most seemed to be what you imagine is a "smug" comment, but with no substance.
Either that's saying nothing about you,
Something about you,
or Everything about you.

You ignored post #30 whilst commenting on this one twice.
Just as you avoided the content of post #8.
Post #30 was a response to your opinion. Why are you avoiding it?
Why are you sidestepping the content of post #8?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Don't confuse getting a degree with being educated.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I'm new here, so this topic has probably already been discussed ad infinitum, so pardon the redundancy if it has. I think what is dragging the economy down significantly is the number of high school drop-outs. First and foremost our country needs to address this and find a way for kid's to take school seriously; or be on the government dole for the rest of their lives. Jobs today require some sort of education.

Unemployment rate: November 2011

Education Level Achieved
Less than
High School.............................13.2%

High School Grad
No College...............................8.8%

Some College
or Associate Degree .................7.6%

Bachelor's Degree
or Higher..................................4.4%

We could try chaining them to their desks.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Everyone knows the best education comes from a Christian College or University. They have the most "scientists".

http://www.usmessageboard.com/educa...e-from-right-wing-christian-universities.html

Are you saying Harvard is a bad place to get a science degree? What college would you recommend?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I never met a PhD working at Walmart. Are there a lot? Which Walmart has the most?

PhD Job Hell: An Open Letter to Thomas H. Benton A.K.A. William A. Pannapacker: How “Graduate School in the Humanities: Just Don’t Go” Destroyed My PhD and Saved My Life

Ph.D. Job Hell: An Open Letter to Thomas H. Benton A.K.A. William A. Pannapacker Author of How

Like a Wal-Mart employee with a PhD is going to advertise the fact. Is working as a waitress or bar tender better?

The problem is the design of the economy. Everyone is brainwashed into concentrating on JOBS and CASH FLOW. Who said we should all know accounting and concentrate on NET WORTH while being aware of PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE?

It is really curious how netbooks got down played and discontinued and we are getting this ULTRAbook marketing, like we are supposed to care how thin a computer is. Spend $1000 instead of $400 son you can lose enough in depreciation the first year to pay for a netbook. LOL

The way out colleges work partly depends on the bad information foisted on kids in grade school.

psik

Netbooks got downgraded because tablets do the same thing, have better battery life, and are easier to carry. In other words, the free market worked to find a better way to do it. If you don't like ultrabooks I suggest you try not buying one.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

High school graduation rates are an interesting thing.

In the county that I live in, the school board/public education system calculates the graduation rate based upon the number of students that enter their senior year of high school vs the number that graduate. They report an 89% graduation rate.

However, if one digs a little deeper and compares the number of students that enter their freshman year of high school vs the number that actually graduate 4 years later, that number drops to only 66% graduation rate.
There is one thing missing from this calculation though. It is two hard numbers. X entered high school and 4 years later Y graduated. It doesn't take into account the number of new students that moved into the school system during those 4 years, and this is a growing area (over 900,000 people live in the county today vs 700,000 ten years ago). In the past 20 years, the number of students in high school has increased every year due to the number of people moving into this area.
About a year ago a local reporter did an analysis of the county high school education system and did her best to include the factors of people moving into the county and moving out of the county. Her final estimate was that a mere 51% of entering freshmen actually graduated high school.

There is a lot of talk about trying to provide higher education (college) to as many students as possible, usually via some sort of government funding such as Pell grants. My problem with that is that when almost half the students can't even manage to get a high school diploma it is a waste of effort and resources to try and get them a college degree.

Don't you have to graduated HS to go to college? I did. So where is the problem?

No, you do not need to graduate high school to go to college.