Trans Activist Lawyer Admits: No Increase in Suicides by Children not Hormonalized and Surgicalized

[Seymour Flops]

From a paper cited by the attorney:

There is no evidence that gender-affirmative treatments reduce suicide.

(2:35)

Instead, the attorney claims that there is evidence that "the medications in question," reduce the risk of depression, anxiety and suicidality.

What is needed is a simple study that measures the suicide rate of purported "transgender children and adolescents" who are medicalized and surgicalized and compares it to such children and teens who are not subjected to that kind of treatment.

Actual suicides are much easier to measure accurately than vague terms like "suicidality," which is always self-reported in such studies by people who will understand immediately that the study has the purpose of promoting gender-affirming treatment.

So, why have there been no such studies? My guess is that there has, but they are not published, because the results did not fit the agenda. When science is as politicized as research into child transgender treatment, then of course the politics will guide the science instead of vice-versa.

 

[shockedcanadian]

From a paper cited by the attorney:

There is no evidence that gender-affirmative treatments reduce suicide.

(2:35)

Instead, the attorney claims that there is evidence that "the medications in question," reduce the risk of depression, anxiety and suicidality.

What is needed is a simple study that measures the suicide rate of purported "transgender children and adolescents" who are medicalized and surgicalized and compares it to such children and teens who are not subjected to that kind of treatment.

Actual suicides are much easier to measure accurately than vague terms like "suicidality," which is always self-reported in such studies by people who will understand immediately that the study has the purpose of promoting gender-affirming treatment.

So, why have there been no such studies? My guess is that there has, but they are not published, because the results did not fit the agenda. When science is as politicized as research into child transgender treatment, then of course the politics will guide the science instead of vice-versa.

Now how many suicides post-surgery?

I didn't even have my dogs scrotum removed as I believed it was cruel.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Now how many suicides post-surgery?

I didn't even have my dogs scrotum removed as I believed it was cruel.

The tittle of you OP is a shameful lie. She did not say that there was no increase in suicides among children who do not receive care, She said that there is insufficient data to prove what the suicide rate is, while also saying that affirmative care does reduce depression and suicidal tendencies

 

[shockedcanadian]

The tittle of you OP is a shameful lie. She did not say that there was no increase in suicides among children who do not receive care, She said that there is insufficient data to prove what the suicide rate is, while also saying that affirmative care does reduce depression and suicidal tendencies

Err, it's not my post sir.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Err, it's not my post sir.

Opps...It was meant for Seymour

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

From a paper cited by the attorney:

There is no evidence that gender-affirmative treatments reduce suicide.

(2:35)

Instead, the attorney claims that there is evidence that "the medications in question," reduce the risk of depression, anxiety and suicidality.

What is needed is a simple study that measures the suicide rate of purported "transgender children and adolescents" who are medicalized and surgicalized and compares it to such children and teens who are not subjected to that kind of treatment.

Actual suicides are much easier to measure accurately than vague terms like "suicidality," which is always self-reported in such studies by people who will understand immediately that the study has the purpose of promoting gender-affirming treatment.

So, why have there been no such studies? My guess is that there has, but they are not published, because the results did not fit the agenda. When science is as politicized as research into child transgender treatment, then of course the politics will guide the science instead of vice-versa.

The tittle of your OP is a shameful lie. She did not say that there was no increase in suicides among children who do not receive care, She said that there is insufficient data to prove what the suicide rate is, while also saying that affirmative care does reduce depression and suicidal tendencies

 

[MisterBeale]

than vague terms like "suicidality," which is always self-reported

It doesn't matter.

At one point in time, I would be surprised if the majority of young folks didn't think about ending it all, when confronted with bullying, the pressures applied on them by society and family to succeed, peer isolation, FOMO, etc.




In fact, I know of two members on this board that lost their kids to suicide, and neither kid were "trans," to my knowledge.

This is a completely irrelevant argument IMO.

 

[MisterBeale]

reduce depression and suicidal tendencies

So does therapy, anti-depressants. . .


. . and of course self-medicating with dope and alcohol, which the majority of kids do.



No evidence that taking these extreme measures of gender-denial "care," should be allowed for something nearly all kids experience.

 

[daveman]

U.S. Study on Puberty Blockers Goes Unpublished Because of Politics, Doctor Says​

The leader of the long-running study said that the drugs did not improve mental health in children with gender distress and that the finding might be weaponized by opponents of the care.

An influential doctor and advocate of adolescent gender treatments said she had not published a long-awaited study of puberty-blocking drugs because of the charged American political environment.

The doctor, Johanna Olson-Kennedy, began the study in 2015 as part of a broader, multimillion-dollar federal project on transgender youth. She and colleagues recruited 95 children from across the country and gave them puberty blockers, which stave off the permanent physical changes — like breasts or a deepening voice — that could exacerbate their gender distress, known as dysphoria.

The researchers followed the children for two years to see if the treatments improved their mental health. An older Dutch study had found that puberty blockers improved well-being, results that inspired clinics around the world to regularly prescribe the medications as part of what is now called gender-affirming care.

But the American trial did not find a similar trend, Dr. Olson-Kennedy said in a wide-ranging interview. Puberty blockers did not lead to mental health improvements, she said, most likely because the children were already doing well when the study began.

“They’re in really good shape when they come in, and they’re in really good shape after two years,” said Dr. Olson-Kennedy, who runs the country’s largest youth gender clinic at the Children’s Hospital of Los Angeles.

That conclusion seemed to contradict an earlier description of the group, in which Dr. Olson-Kennedy and her colleagues noted that one quarter of the adolescents were depressed or suicidal before treatment.

No, it goes unpublished because it didn't reveal the results they wanted.

 

[Polishprince]

The tittle of your OP is a shameful lie. She did not say that there was no increase in suicides among children who do not receive care, She said that there is insufficient data to prove what the suicide rate is, while also saying that affirmative care does reduce depression and suicidal tendencies

Actually "affirmative" care causes depression.

Ultra expensive medications like Lupron used for this have "depression" as one of their major side effects.

Further, the patient will sooner or later figure out they aren't a "woman" at all, but just a fellow in a dress, on female hormones possibly with his dick cut off.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Actually "affirmative" care causes depression.

Ultra expensive medications like Lupron used for this have "depression" as one of their major side effects.

Further, the patient will sooner or later figure out they aren't a "woman" at all, but just a fellow in a dress, on female hormones possibly with his dick cut off.

The existence of people like you causes depression

 

[Seymour Flops]

The tittle of you OP is a shameful lie. She did not say that there was no increase in suicides among children who do not receive care, She said that there is insufficient data to prove what the suicide rate is, while also saying that affirmative care does reduce depression and suicidal tendencies

"Tittle?" What's on your mind, Progressive Patriot?

Are you thinking about teen girls having their breasts lopped off, or teen boys growing breasts due to being given hormones?

It's my OP, and it is not a lie shameful or otherwise.

If there were such an increase in actual suicides, the left would be shouting it from the mountaintops.

Also, no evidence shows that gender-affirming care reduces depression and suicidal tendencies. It only purports to show - based on self-reports - that teens and children who want gender-affirming care and don't get it are more likely to claim to have "suicidal ideation" and other vague terms.

Cross-gender hormones have been shown to be effective in treating depression long before they were used to make boys look more like girls, and vice-versa. So if there is tendancy for less depression due to gender-affirming treatment, that is the simplest explanation.

As another poster pointed out, there is probably not a person in the world who never thought about suicide, so the results of such polls would be based on responders willingness to say so.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

"Tittle?" What's on your mind, Progressive Patriot?

Are you thinking about teen girls having their breasts lopped off, or teen boys growing breasts due to being given hormones?

It's my OP, and it is not a lie shameful or otherwise.

If there were such an increase in actual suicides, the left would be shouting it from the mountaintops.

Also, no evidence shows that gender-affirming care reduces depression and suicidal tendencies. It only purports to show - based on self-reports - that teens and children who want gender-affirming care and don't get it are more likely to claim to have "suicidal ideation" and other vague terms.

Cross-gender hormones have been shown to be effective in treating depression long before they were used to make boys look more like girls, and vice-versa. So if there is tendancy for less depression due to gender-affirming treatment, that is the simplest explanation.

As another poster pointed out, there is probably not a person in the world who never thought about suicide, so the results of such polls would be based on responders willingness to say so.

What’s on my mind? What’s on my mind is the moronic anti trans hysteria that you people wallow in that causes pain and misery to countless trans people who are denied the care that they need. The kind of care that we are talking about here does not involve mastectomies for teenagers . You make up shit to create your own reality and then lie about it. Your OP tittle is a perfect example of that

Another example: Your assertions that “If there were such an increase in actual suicides, the left would be shouting it from the mountaintops.” And “ no evidence shows that gender-affirming care reduces depression and suicidal tendencies”

Anti-Transgender Laws Cause up to 72% Increase in Suicide Attempts Among Transgender and Nonbinary Youth, Study Shows

A first-of-its kind peer-reviewed study found state-level anti-transgender laws increased past year-suicide attempts among a sample of more than 61,000 transgender and nonbinary youth in the United States

September 26, 2024 – Researchers at The Trevor Project, the leading suicide prevention and crisis intervention organization for LGBTQ+ young people, published a study in the peer-reviewed journal, Nature Human Behaviour, that found anti-transgender state-level laws has a significant and causal impact on suicide risk among transgender and nonbinary young people across the United States.

“It is without question that anti-transgender policies, and the dangerous rhetoric surrounding them, take a measurable toll on the health and safety of transgender and nonbinary young people all across the country,” said Jaymes Black (she/they/he pronouns), Chief Executive Officer at The Trevor Project. “As we get closer to critical elections this November, these young people will continue to be reduced to political talking points. I urge every adult – no matter your political beliefs – to remember that transgender and nonbinary young people are our family, our friends, and our neighbors. It’s not necessary to fully understand their experience to acknowledge that they – like all young people – deserve dignity, respect, and the ability to lead healthy and full lives.”

Tell us again how there is “no evidence” There is no evidence in your narrow world because real evidence is never allowed to see the light of day Then you seem to suggest that if these kids who get hormones are less depressed afterwards, they must have been depressed for some reason other than being denied gender affirming care. In short, your posts represent nothing more than egregious examples of appeals to ignorance logical fallacies

Oh and yes, depression is a major risk factor for suicide and there is a high correlation between suicide attempts and actual suicide so don’t even go there

 

[Seymour Flops]

What’s on my mind? What’s on my mind is the moronic anti trans hysteria that you people wallow in that causes pain and misery to countless trans people who are denied the care that they need. The kind of care that we are talking about here does not involve mastectomies for teenagers . You make up shit to create your own reality

Nope.

‘I literally lost organs:’ Why detransitioned teens regret changing genders

A look at the alarming rise of teens who are changing genders and then “detransitioning” back.

nypost.com

When Chloe was 12 years old, she decided she was transgender. At 13, she came out to her parents. That same year, she was put on puberty blockers and prescribed testosterone. At 15, she underwent a double mastectomy. Less than a year later, she realized she’d made a mistake — all by the time she was 16 years old.

and then lie about it. Your OP tittle is a perfect example of that

Another example: Your assertions that “If there were such an increase in actual suicides, the left would be shouting it from the mountaintops.” And “ no evidence shows that gender-affirming care reduces depression and suicidal tendencies”

Anti-Transgender Laws Cause up to 72% Increase in Suicide Attempts Among Transgender and Nonbinary Youth, Study Shows







Tell us again how there is “no evidence” There is no evidence in your narrow world because real evidence is never allowed to see the light of day Then you seem to suggest that if these kids who get hormones are less depressed afterwards, they must have been depressed for some reason other than being denied gender affirming care. In short, your posts represent nothing more than egregious examples of appeals to ignorance logical fallacies

Oh and yes, depression is a major risk factor for suicide and there is a high correlation between suicide attempts and actual suicide so don’t even go there

That article claims that the study is about suicide attempts, not actual suicides. Self-reported again, I imagine?

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Nope.

‘I literally lost organs:’ Why detransitioned teens regret changing genders

A look at the alarming rise of teens who are changing genders and then “detransitioning” back.

nypost.com

When Chloe was 12 years old, she decided she was transgender. At 13, she came out to her parents. That same year, she was put on puberty blockers and prescribed testosterone. At 15, she underwent a double mastectomy. Less than a year later, she realized she’d made a mistake — all by the time she was 16 years old.

That article claims that the study is about suicide attempts, not actual suicides. Self-reported again, I imagine?

First of all Seymour, allow me to get you refocused on where this all started. In case you have forgotten, it started with your lie that the ACLU attorney “admitted” that there is no increase in suicides among children( with gender dysphoria) who do not receive hormones or have surgery . For the record, as I have documented , she said nothing of the kind. Now that you’ve been called out on that, you’re running from your own OP and trying to muddy the waters with a anecdotal horror story.

For your information, neither I nor any advocate for trans kids who I know of would condone surgery of any irreversible medical procedures for a 15 year old. If this actually happened it was wrong

Google Search

Gender-affirming surgeries are typically not performed on children, and the age limit is usually 18 or older:

• Medical guidelines

Nationally-recognized medical guidelines recommend that patients be at least 15 years old to receive gender-affirming surgeries, and only in special circumstances.

• Exceptions

In rare cases, 16 or 17 year-olds may receive gender-affirming surgeries to reduce the impacts of significant gender dysphoria.

• Patient consent

For patients under age 18, consent from any parent or guardian that has medical decision-making rights is required, unless the patient is an emancipated minor.

In addition, best practices-which I have documented require extensive mental health counselling and evaluation of a number of years before any such procedure. This is just another of you dishonest logical fallacies that you have to resort to because you have no real argument. Trying to use one case to condemn any and all gender affirming care is not a winning argument except for very stupid people

 

[Seymour Flops]

First of all Seymour, allow me to get you refocused on where this all started. In case you have forgotten, it started with your lie that the ACLU attorney “admitted” that there is no increase in suicides among children( with gender dysphoria) who do not receive hormones or have surgery . For the record, as I have documented , she said nothing of the kind. Now that you’ve been called out on that, you’re running from your own OP and trying to muddy the waters with a anecdotal horror story.

For your information, neither I nor any advocate for trans kids who I know of would condone surgery of any irreversible medical procedures for a 15 year old. If this actually happened it was wrong

Google Search

Gender-affirming surgeries are typically not performed on children, and the age limit is usually 18 or older:

• Medical guidelines

Nationally-recognized medical guidelines recommend that patients be at least 15 years old to receive gender-affirming surgeries, and only in special circumstances.

• Exceptions

In rare cases, 16 or 17 year-olds may receive gender-affirming surgeries to reduce the impacts of significant gender dysphoria.

• Patient consent

For patients under age 18, consent from any parent or guardian that has medical decision-making rights is required, unless the patient is an emancipated minor.

In addition, best practices-which I have documented require extensive mental health counselling and evaluation of a number of years before any such procedure. This is just another of you dishonest logical fallacies that you have to resort to because you have no real argument. Trying to use one case to condemn any and all gender affirming care is not a winning argument except for very stupid people

Thread 'Celebrated Trans Doctor Sued For Medical Negligence Over Removal Of 14-Year-Old Girl’s Breasts'
Celebrated Trans Doctor Sued For Medical Negligence Over Removal Of 14-Year-Old Girl’s Breasts

From your own post:

In rare cases, 16 or 17 year-olds may receive gender-affirming surgeries to reduce the impacts of significant gender dysphoria.

 

[Polishprince]

What’s on my mind? What’s on my mind is the moronic anti trans hysteria that you people wallow in that causes pain and misery to countless trans people who are denied the care that they need. The kind of care that we are talking about here does not involve mastectomies for teenagers . You make up shit to create your own reality and then lie about it. Your OP tittle is a perfect example of that

If someone wants to be a She-Male or Tranny, there is absolutely no reason for surgery. They can wear a dress, a wig and makeup, doll themselves up any way they want, without undergoing surgery or hormone treatment at all.


Do it without medical treatment saves the Tranny the expense, pain and side effects of taking hormone treatment or getting himself literally emasculated.

Of course, it would take money from the hands of Quacks who walk around and pretend like they can change someone's gender.

A man who has his penis amputated isn't a "woman" no matter how often he insists on it.

 

[Seymour Flops]

If someone wants to be a She-Male or Tranny, there is absolutely no reason for surgery. They can wear a dress, a wig and makeup, doll themselves up any way they want, without undergoing surgery or hormone treatment at all.


Do it without medical treatment saves the Tranny the expense, pain and side effects of taking hormone treatment or getting himself literally emasculated.

Of course, it would take money from the hands of Quacks who walk around and pretend like they can change someone's gender.

A man who has his penis amputated isn't a "woman" no matter how often he insists on it.

For any other form of Body Dysmorphia any health, professional recommending medical or surgical treatments to change the body to fit the persons idealized image of the body they should have would be mocked, scorn, and probably lose their license.

It should be no different for these special category of body dysmorphia commonly referred to as gender dysphoria.

If there’s more than one way to be a girl, why do we have to give hormones and surgery to a 10 year old boy who “wants to be a girl?”

Honestly, it’s a moot point. Because these kinds of child treatments are not about the children at all. They are about a certain type of adult men who fantasize about young “girls“ with “something extra.”

 

[Seymour Flops]

First of all Seymour, allow me to get you refocused on where this all started. In case you have forgotten, it started with your lie that the ACLU attorney “admitted” that there is no increase in suicides among children( with gender dysphoria) who do not receive hormones or have surgery . For the record, as I have documented , she said nothing of the kind. Now that you’ve been called out on that, you’re running from your own OP and trying to muddy the waters with a anecdotal horror story.

Perhaps I gave you too much to listen to. Sustaining attention for more than one monutes is difficult for some people. Skip ahead to 3:50, listen for seven seconds, and you will hear athe lawyer from the ACLU say these exact words:

There is no evidence in these studies that this treatment reduces completed suicides.

For your information, neither I nor any advocate for trans kids who I know of would condone surgery of any irreversible medical procedures for a 15 year old. If this actually happened it was wrong

Google Search

Gender-affirming surgeries are typically not performed on children, and the age limit is usually 18 or older:

• Medical guidelines

Nationally-recognized medical guidelines recommend that patients be at least 15 years old to receive gender-affirming surgeries, and only in special circumstances.

• Exceptions

In rare cases, 16 or 17 year-olds may receive gender-affirming surgeries to reduce the impacts of significant gender dysphoria.

• Patient consent

For patients under age 18, consent from any parent or guardian that has medical decision-making rights is required, unless the patient is an emancipated minor.

In addition, best practices-which I have documented require extensive mental health counselling and evaluation of a number of years before any such procedure. This is just another of you dishonest logical fallacies that you have to resort to because you have no real argument. Trying to use one case to condemn any and all gender affirming care is not a winning argument except for very stupid people

I already proved that it happens with two examples.

Your own post said that it happens.

Why are you denying something so obvious?

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

For any other form of Body Dysmorphia any health, professional recommending medical or surgical treatments to change the body to fit the persons idealized image of the body they should have would be mocked, scorn, and probably lose their license.

It should be no different for these special category of body dysmorphia commonly referred to as gender dysphoria.

If there’s more than one way to be a girl, why do we have to give hormones and surgery to a 10 year old boy who “wants to be a girl?”

Honestly, it’s a moot point. Because these kinds of child treatments are not about the children at all. They are about a certain type of adult men who fantasize about young “girls“ with “something extra.”

Thank you for once again confirming you profound and pathetic ignorance of the issue of gender dysphoria