Trump, Minorities, the GOP and the Art of the Sale

[Seawytch]

Surprising...since he's going after the PC you hate so much...and it's working!

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/08/14/opinion/sunday/donald-trump-is-making-america-meaner.html?_r=0

I'm not a one-issue voter. Are you?
.

Wait, so you DO like Trump's un-"PCedness"?

I certainly do, in that he has the freedom to so often expose himself as a buffoon.

I'll say it for the zillionth time: The beauty of freedom of expression is that it points out the crazies, loud and clear. Perhaps more importantly, it points out who agrees with them. I want to know who these people are, where they are, and what they are thinking.

Shutting them down, shouting them down, intimidating them into silence, or punishing them for expressing themselves is not just flying in the face of the spirit of Freedom of Speech; it's removing the best way of identifying them. Not to mention being childish and cowardly.

I sincerely don't know why this is so complicated.
.

Did you see what all Trump's "Freedom of expression" has wrought?

Donald Trump is Making America Meaner

n the middle of a physics class at the high school one day this spring, a group of white students suddenly began jeering at their Latino classmates and chanting: “Build a wall! Build a wall!” [...]

The Trump-inspired malice seems ubiquitous. A Georgetown University study found a surge of anti-Muslim violence, from murders to attacks on mosques, coinciding with Trump’s hostility toward Muslims. In March, a man attacked Muslim and Latino students in Kansas, shouting“brown trash” and “Trump will take our country from you guys.”​

He's redefined politeness as "PC" and bullying as "telling it like it is"

I don't want them identified, I want them living in their basements, scared to come out.

There are plenty of people on all parts of the spectrum contributing to this nasty climate.

To blame one person or one side is silly and intellectually dishonest.
.

Except there are studies that show an increase in anti Muslim violence as a result of this "one person" being on the National Stage.

When Islamophobia Turns Violent: The 2016 U.S. Presidential Elections

 

[Mac1958]

I'm not a one-issue voter. Are you?
.

Wait, so you DO like Trump's un-"PCedness"?

I certainly do, in that he has the freedom to so often expose himself as a buffoon.

I'll say it for the zillionth time: The beauty of freedom of expression is that it points out the crazies, loud and clear. Perhaps more importantly, it points out who agrees with them. I want to know who these people are, where they are, and what they are thinking.

Shutting them down, shouting them down, intimidating them into silence, or punishing them for expressing themselves is not just flying in the face of the spirit of Freedom of Speech; it's removing the best way of identifying them. Not to mention being childish and cowardly.

I sincerely don't know why this is so complicated.
.

Did you see what all Trump's "Freedom of expression" has wrought?

Donald Trump is Making America Meaner

n the middle of a physics class at the high school one day this spring, a group of white students suddenly began jeering at their Latino classmates and chanting: “Build a wall! Build a wall!” [...]

The Trump-inspired malice seems ubiquitous. A Georgetown University study found a surge of anti-Muslim violence, from murders to attacks on mosques, coinciding with Trump’s hostility toward Muslims. In March, a man attacked Muslim and Latino students in Kansas, shouting“brown trash” and “Trump will take our country from you guys.”​

He's redefined politeness as "PC" and bullying as "telling it like it is"

I don't want them identified, I want them living in their basements, scared to come out.

There are plenty of people on all parts of the spectrum contributing to this nasty climate.

To blame one person or one side is silly and intellectually dishonest.
.

Except there are studies that show an increase in anti Muslim violence as a result of this "one person" being on the National Stage.

When Islamophobia Turns Violent: The 2016 U.S. Presidential Elections

I don't know what your point is. Are you saying that people should be punished or shouted down or shut up or intimidated if they say things you don't like?

I think freedom of expression opens the door to fixing problems. I'm not afraid of words, I value them, even if it gets messy. We're not going to agree.
.

 

[Seawytch]

Wait, so you DO like Trump's un-"PCedness"?

I certainly do, in that he has the freedom to so often expose himself as a buffoon.

I'll say it for the zillionth time: The beauty of freedom of expression is that it points out the crazies, loud and clear. Perhaps more importantly, it points out who agrees with them. I want to know who these people are, where they are, and what they are thinking.

Shutting them down, shouting them down, intimidating them into silence, or punishing them for expressing themselves is not just flying in the face of the spirit of Freedom of Speech; it's removing the best way of identifying them. Not to mention being childish and cowardly.

I sincerely don't know why this is so complicated.
.

Did you see what all Trump's "Freedom of expression" has wrought?

Donald Trump is Making America Meaner

n the middle of a physics class at the high school one day this spring, a group of white students suddenly began jeering at their Latino classmates and chanting: “Build a wall! Build a wall!” [...]

The Trump-inspired malice seems ubiquitous. A Georgetown University study found a surge of anti-Muslim violence, from murders to attacks on mosques, coinciding with Trump’s hostility toward Muslims. In March, a man attacked Muslim and Latino students in Kansas, shouting“brown trash” and “Trump will take our country from you guys.”​

He's redefined politeness as "PC" and bullying as "telling it like it is"

I don't want them identified, I want them living in their basements, scared to come out.

There are plenty of people on all parts of the spectrum contributing to this nasty climate.

To blame one person or one side is silly and intellectually dishonest.
.

Except there are studies that show an increase in anti Muslim violence as a result of this "one person" being on the National Stage.

When Islamophobia Turns Violent: The 2016 U.S. Presidential Elections

I don't know what your point is. Are you saying that people should be punished or shouted down or shut up or intimidated if they say things you don't like?

Punished in a legal sense, no. Punished in that they are so humiliated by the public outcry when they crawl out of their basements to spew their hate that they crawl back in never to be seen again, yes.

I think freedom of expression opens the door to fixing problems. I'm not afraid of words, I value them. We're not going to agree.
.

And I just gave you evidence that this "freedom of expression" of Trump's isn't "fixing" any problems, it's making problems much, much worse. (like bullying in schools and anti Muslim violence) What's that "fixing"?[/QUOTE]

 

[Mac1958]

I certainly do, in that he has the freedom to so often expose himself as a buffoon.

I'll say it for the zillionth time: The beauty of freedom of expression is that it points out the crazies, loud and clear. Perhaps more importantly, it points out who agrees with them. I want to know who these people are, where they are, and what they are thinking.

Shutting them down, shouting them down, intimidating them into silence, or punishing them for expressing themselves is not just flying in the face of the spirit of Freedom of Speech; it's removing the best way of identifying them. Not to mention being childish and cowardly.

I sincerely don't know why this is so complicated.
.

Did you see what all Trump's "Freedom of expression" has wrought?

Donald Trump is Making America Meaner

n the middle of a physics class at the high school one day this spring, a group of white students suddenly began jeering at their Latino classmates and chanting: “Build a wall! Build a wall!” [...]

The Trump-inspired malice seems ubiquitous. A Georgetown University study found a surge of anti-Muslim violence, from murders to attacks on mosques, coinciding with Trump’s hostility toward Muslims. In March, a man attacked Muslim and Latino students in Kansas, shouting“brown trash” and “Trump will take our country from you guys.”​

He's redefined politeness as "PC" and bullying as "telling it like it is"

I don't want them identified, I want them living in their basements, scared to come out.

There are plenty of people on all parts of the spectrum contributing to this nasty climate.

To blame one person or one side is silly and intellectually dishonest.
.

Except there are studies that show an increase in anti Muslim violence as a result of this "one person" being on the National Stage.

When Islamophobia Turns Violent: The 2016 U.S. Presidential Elections

I don't know what your point is. Are you saying that people should be punished or shouted down or shut up or intimidated if they say things you don't like?

Punished in a legal sense, no. Punished in that they are so humiliated by the public outcry when they crawl out of their basements to spew their hate that they crawl back in never to be seen again, yes.

I think freedom of expression opens the door to fixing problems. I'm not afraid of words, I value them. We're not going to agree.
.

And I just gave you evidence that this "freedom of expression" of Trump's isn't "fixing" any problems, it's making problems much, much worse. (like bullying in schools and anti Muslim violence) What's that "fixing"?

[/QUOTE]
I honestly don't know how to communicate something that seems so obvious to me.

He's not fixing problems with his ridiculous rhetoric, but it can expose what people are thinking and open the door to real conversation, if we let it.

I really don't know how else to put this.
.

 

[Seawytch]

Did you see what all Trump's "Freedom of expression" has wrought?

Donald Trump is Making America Meaner

n the middle of a physics class at the high school one day this spring, a group of white students suddenly began jeering at their Latino classmates and chanting: “Build a wall! Build a wall!” [...]

The Trump-inspired malice seems ubiquitous. A Georgetown University study found a surge of anti-Muslim violence, from murders to attacks on mosques, coinciding with Trump’s hostility toward Muslims. In March, a man attacked Muslim and Latino students in Kansas, shouting“brown trash” and “Trump will take our country from you guys.”​

He's redefined politeness as "PC" and bullying as "telling it like it is"

I don't want them identified, I want them living in their basements, scared to come out.

There are plenty of people on all parts of the spectrum contributing to this nasty climate.

To blame one person or one side is silly and intellectually dishonest.
.

Except there are studies that show an increase in anti Muslim violence as a result of this "one person" being on the National Stage.

When Islamophobia Turns Violent: The 2016 U.S. Presidential Elections

I don't know what your point is. Are you saying that people should be punished or shouted down or shut up or intimidated if they say things you don't like?

Punished in a legal sense, no. Punished in that they are so humiliated by the public outcry when they crawl out of their basements to spew their hate that they crawl back in never to be seen again, yes.

I think freedom of expression opens the door to fixing problems. I'm not afraid of words, I value them. We're not going to agree.
.

And I just gave you evidence that this "freedom of expression" of Trump's isn't "fixing" any problems, it's making problems much, much worse. (like bullying in schools and anti Muslim violence) What's that "fixing"?

I honestly don't know how to communicate something that seems so obvious to me.

He's not fixing problems with his ridiculous rhetoric, but it can expose what people are thinking and open the door to real conversation, if we let it.

I really don't know how else to put this.
.[/QUOTE]

What "real conversation" is being had? None, just hate and bullying. That's not a conversation. Trump's rhetoric isn't opening the lines of communication, it's letting the racists and bigots have a microphone and it's hurting children as a result.

Melissa Chance-Majdi
Sad day in America when I have to comfort my 8 year old child who heard that someone with yellow hair named Trump wanted to kick all Muslims out of America. She had began collecting all her favorite things in a bag in case the army came to remove us from our homes. She checked the locks on the door 3-4 times. This is terrorism. No child in America deserves to feel that way.​

 

[Mac1958]

There are plenty of people on all parts of the spectrum contributing to this nasty climate.

To blame one person or one side is silly and intellectually dishonest.
.

Except there are studies that show an increase in anti Muslim violence as a result of this "one person" being on the National Stage.

When Islamophobia Turns Violent: The 2016 U.S. Presidential Elections

I don't know what your point is. Are you saying that people should be punished or shouted down or shut up or intimidated if they say things you don't like?

Punished in a legal sense, no. Punished in that they are so humiliated by the public outcry when they crawl out of their basements to spew their hate that they crawl back in never to be seen again, yes.

I think freedom of expression opens the door to fixing problems. I'm not afraid of words, I value them. We're not going to agree.
.

And I just gave you evidence that this "freedom of expression" of Trump's isn't "fixing" any problems, it's making problems much, much worse. (like bullying in schools and anti Muslim violence) What's that "fixing"?

I honestly don't know how to communicate something that seems so obvious to me.

He's not fixing problems with his ridiculous rhetoric, but it can expose what people are thinking and open the door to real conversation, if we let it.

I really don't know how else to put this.
.

What "real conversation" is being had? None, just hate and bullying. That's not a conversation. Trump's rhetoric isn't opening the lines of communication, it's letting the racists and bigots have a microphone and it's hurting children as a result.

Melissa Chance-Majdi
Sad day in America when I have to comfort my 8 year old child who heard that someone with yellow hair named Trump wanted to kick all Muslims out of America. She had began collecting all her favorite things in a bag in case the army came to remove us from our homes. She checked the locks on the door 3-4 times. This is terrorism. No child in America deserves to feel that way.​

[/QUOTE]
Okay.
.

 

[Dragonlady]

There are plenty of people on all parts of the spectrum contributing to this nasty climate.

To blame one person or one side is silly and intellectually dishonest.
.

I strongly disagree. By speaking openly about his fear of Hispanics, Muslims and blacks, Trump has given voice to those who have long had their views suppressed - racists, Islamophobes, and misogynists, and homophobes. I added in homophobes because Trump talks about restoring "religious freedom", and the only so-called religious freedom being oppressed at the moment is the freedom of Christian extremists to discriminate against gays.

Since the Civil Rights Act was passed, discrimination against people of color has been seriously frowned upon in public spaces. Racist talk wasn't allowed in our public discourse. Racism by it's very nature, is grounded in fear of those who are different. Trump is allowing people to voice their fear of Hispanics, Chinese, and other Third Worlders taking their jobs, and when you have fear, anger is right there with it. Republicans wanted these trade deals for their corporate leaders. Reagan believed that if Mexicans had good jobs at home, they wouldn't be coming to the US illegally. American corporations have gotten ever richer by off-shoring manufacturing and production, to Third World shit holes with no environmental legislation, building codes or worker protections. Profit trumps all.

Trump isn't subtle about this racism. He tells the angry, displaced production workers that they're right to blame the immigrants and the Chinese for taking their jobs. The poor Mexicans are the problem, not the global elites, who encourage them by hiring them when the get here.

 

[Mac1958]

There are plenty of people on all parts of the spectrum contributing to this nasty climate.

To blame one person or one side is silly and intellectually dishonest.
.

I strongly disagree. By speaking openly about his fear of Hispanics, Muslims and blacks, Trump has given voice to those who have long had their views suppressed - racists, Islamophobes, and misogynists, and homophobes. I added in homophobes because Trump talks about restoring "religious freedom", and the only so-called religious freedom being oppressed at the moment is the freedom of Christian extremists to discriminate against gays.

Since the Civil Rights Act was passed, discrimination against people of color has been seriously frowned upon in public spaces. Racist talk wasn't allowed in our public discourse. Racism by it's very nature, is grounded in fear of those who are different. Trump is allowing people to voice their fear of Hispanics, Chinese, and other Third Worlders taking their jobs, and when you have fear, anger is right there with it. Republicans wanted these trade deals for their corporate leaders. Reagan believed that if Mexicans had good jobs at home, they wouldn't be coming to the US illegally. American corporations have gotten ever richer by off-shoring manufacturing and production, to Third World shit holes with no environmental legislation, building codes or worker protections. Profit trumps all.

Trump isn't subtle about this racism. He tells the angry, displaced production workers that they're right to blame the immigrants and the Chinese for taking their jobs. The poor Mexicans are the problem, not the global elites, who encourage them by hiring them when the get here.

Your bias is clear right away, in your second sentence.

Regardless, I'm a strong advocate of freedom of expression, whether I agree with the words or not.

And there are plenty of people on both ends of the spectrum using rhetoric that exacerbates our problems, whether their side will admit it or not.
.

 

[LoneLaugher]

There are plenty of people on all parts of the spectrum contributing to this nasty climate.

To blame one person or one side is silly and intellectually dishonest.
.

I strongly disagree. By speaking openly about his fear of Hispanics, Muslims and blacks, Trump has given voice to those who have long had their views suppressed - racists, Islamophobes, and misogynists, and homophobes. I added in homophobes because Trump talks about restoring "religious freedom", and the only so-called religious freedom being oppressed at the moment is the freedom of Christian extremists to discriminate against gays.

Since the Civil Rights Act was passed, discrimination against people of color has been seriously frowned upon in public spaces. Racist talk wasn't allowed in our public discourse. Racism by it's very nature, is grounded in fear of those who are different. Trump is allowing people to voice their fear of Hispanics, Chinese, and other Third Worlders taking their jobs, and when you have fear, anger is right there with it. Republicans wanted these trade deals for their corporate leaders. Reagan believed that if Mexicans had good jobs at home, they wouldn't be coming to the US illegally. American corporations have gotten ever richer by off-shoring manufacturing and production, to Third World shit holes with no environmental legislation, building codes or worker protections. Profit trumps all.

Trump isn't subtle about this racism. He tells the angry, displaced production workers that they're right to blame the immigrants and the Chinese for taking their jobs. The poor Mexicans are the problem, not the global elites, who encourage them by hiring them when the get here.

Your bias is clear right away, in your second sentence.

Regardless, I'm a strong advocate of freedom of expression, whether I agree with the words or not.

And there are plenty of people on both ends of the spectrum using rhetoric that exacerbates our problems, whether their side will admit it or not.
.

Why do you continue to pretend that you are more of an advocate for freedom of expression than anyiune else?

You differ from me only in that you feel sad when an asshole has to be responsible for his words and I don't. Period.