Two thirds of Israelis support freezing peace talks

[aris2chat]

Likud has led Israel into a dead end. The Arab opposition, supported by the overwhelming majority of UN member states is too strong to allow Israel to annex Judea and Samaria, the one-state solution that the religious right has pushed for with increasing candor for many years.

At the same time, Jews are about to become a minority in Israel if the Occupied Territories are taken into account. This is going to lead to a crisis which the USA will not be able to prevent.

There is no military solution to the conflict, despite the overwhelming military power of the IDF, for which America is paying four million dollars a day. The Arab world is too underdeveloped politically and fractured socially to work out a solution at this time.

Another generation of the status quo may well result in the regional hegemony of a nuclear-armed Iran. Israel cannot survive a nuclear war. It is too small and its population will abandon Tel Aviv for Crown Heights. Previous Crusader states have lasted a couple of centuries. Israel will not have that luxury.

Most neutral observers agree, it is this group that haven't a clue.

Agree that what?? Israel will be overwhelmed by Arabs??

If they do go, it will likely be with a bang.

If Iran attacks Israel, it will effect the palestinians as well. Everything to the east will suffer from the fall out. Iran just want a seat at the table and thinks this is a way to leverage a foot in the doorway.

 

[toastman]

Most neutral observers agree, it is this group that haven't a clue.

Agree that what?? Israel will be overwhelmed by Arabs??

If they do go, it will likely be with a bang.

If Iran attacks Israel, it will effect the palestinians as well. Everything to the east will suffer from the fall out. Iran just want a seat at the table and thinks this is a way to leverage a foot in the doorway.

Well that's obvious. Not to mention the thousands of Americans that would be killed as well and other tourists from all over the world.

It's not Iran that would do something like that however. Iran is the #1 supporter of terror, and nuclear weapons falling into the wrong hands could be disastrous.

 

[proudveteran06]

Originally posted by aris2chat
Blowing up discos, markets and restaurants full of civilians is not morally depraved?
Putting explosives on children and teaching them to kill jews is not morally depraved?

It is indeed.

There are few things in this world more gruesome than a palestinian suicide bombing.

A horrendous spectacle of body parts flying everywhere followed by the most terrifying shouts and scream a human being can hear.

A savagery beyond description that traumatizes anyone unfortunate enough to witness it for the rest of their lives.

But it's no more morally depraved than a state that has spent 65 years and counting murdering the natives of the land (including unarmed men, women, even grannies and children) to preserve an artificial ethnic majority in 60%-80% of their historical homeland.

You actually think Israel attacks Gaza so they can be a majority??
Oh common, even you don't believe that crap Jose.

If Israel attacks militants or militant sites, and civilians die as a result of collateral damage, it's not murder. And yes, that goes for Hamas too. If they launched an anti tank missile at a tank, and civilians died as a result, that would also be considered collateral damage.
But Hamas almost exclusively attacks civilians, and that was very evident during the second intifada.

Which brings me to my next point. Why do Palestinians and their supporters complain that Israel kills them, when Hamas sent their own civilians, sometimes women or young men and in several cases kids, to commit suicide???
Double standard much??

Not going to get a response.

 

[Phoenall]

Let me clarify: Do you support blowing up a bus in Te-Aviv, or just stabbing settlers in Hebron? Please be specific.

Neither.
Neither is facing down an immediate threat.

I would support resistance of an IDF incursion into Gaza. (Edit: From an ethical standpoint. I would oppose weapons of any sort going to the M.E.)

But rule of law would be much preferable in any case.
If Israel will obey the law, they would remove their occupation, and THEN I might even support the wall, as hopefully a temporary measure.

Of course it would have to be moved back to Israeli lines. And the settlements withdrawn, as well.

Were are the Israel lines that you refer to, as the last armistice line was the one they are at now. Does this mean the arab muslim have to withdraw their claims of right of return as well.

Now what have the Palestinians done to negotiate a just settlement of the problem and mutually agreed borders

 

[Phoenall]

Border guards are fair game, as long as Israel is imprisoning children and bombing with impunity.

Does this not also mean anyone in the vicinity of a Palestinian military installation is not also "fair game" AND WE WILL NOT HEAR ANYMORE BLEATING ABOUT WOMEN AND CHILDREN BEING SHOT You cane have it both ways if unarmed/armed border guards on Israeli soil are fair game then anyone wearing the clothing of a terrorist/militia in gaza is also fair game

 

[Phoenall]

Neither.
Neither is facing down an immediate threat.

I would support resistance of an IDF incursion into Gaza.

But rule of law would be much preferable in any case.
If Israel will obey the law, they would remove their occupation, and THEN I might even support the wall, as hopefully a temporary measure.

Of course it would have to be moved back to Israeli lines. And the settlements withdrawn, as well.

>>IDF incursion into Gaza.<< were due to rockets, mortars, bombings and kidnappings by groups like hamas and IJ.

So that makes it ok to kill hundreds of women and children. The Nazis used to claim that killing 10 innocent villagers by firing squad in Italy was justified because resistance partisans had killed one German.

More deflection away from the subject matter and a childish attempt at claiming the Jews are Nazi's. Just another example of Godswins Law.

If the women and children wear the uniform of the gazan terrorists then they are "fair game" according to your board friend. Or if they are inside the perimeter of a known military installation then they are unarmed militia .

But it is only the gazan muslims that claim the women and children were innocent, the many fact finding missions have shown they acted as willing human shields making them valid targets under the Geneva conventions

 

[Phoenall]

You would have to speak to the Palestinians about that FY.

If they don't agree, I surely couldn't.

How can they not agree as they are already stealing land in the Negev and claiming it as their own. So demolish the settlements and demolish the arab muslim settlements in the negev

 

[Phoenall]

Originally posted by aris2chat
>>IDF incursion into Gaza.<< were due to rockets, mortars, bombings and kidnappings by groups like hamas and IJ.

And the "rockets, mortars, bombings and kidnappings" are due to the fact that since 1948 the jewish supremacist state summarily executes any unarmed palestinian civilian who tries to exercise their right to move about their homeland.

All the jewish racial dictatorship has to do to bring the palestinian armed struggle to an immediate end is revoke their policy of assassinating them when they cross into western Palestine.

I guarantee you the "rockets, bombings and kidnappings" will stop in a New York second since those cold-blooded murders are the only cause the palestinian armed struggle even exist to begin with.

And your unbiased source of this information is what exactly.

What homeland would that be as many are from other parts of the M.E. which is why they had the law altered to give them citizenship after 2 years of being an illegal immigrant

I can guarantee that you don't know what you are talking about as the mass murder of Jews stated back ion the 7C when Mohamed wiped out the Jewish tribe in medina that refused to fall down and worship him as god.

 

[Phoenall]

Terrorists operate from highly populated areas, or rather they "hide" among the civilians making them targets of war.

If that is your complaint, then give them back the rest of Palestine. Then they will have room to manoeuvre. And less cause to do so.

As to 'terrorists'; terrorists do not always operate from civilian areas in Israel and Palestine. They also operate from drone bases, and from F15's, they control the border crossings and operate Abrams tanks.

Would that be the lands of Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Israel and parts of Egypt and Saudi Arabia ?

Were will the Jews live when they are forced to leave their homes and property

They had all of the M.E to manoeuvre in and still they mass murdered the Jews because it was a command from their god.

They are not terrorists but defenders against constant arab muslim attacks on children using illegal weapons.

But it is nice to see your true colours and your real views on the Jews. Just another RACIST ISLAMONAZI SCUM who wants ti finish what Mohamed and Hitler started.

 

[Phoenall]

So that makes it ok to kill hundreds of women and children. The Nazis used to claim that killing 10 innocent villagers by firing squad in Italy was justified because resistance partisans had killed one German.

Terrorists operate from highly populated areas, or rather they "hide" among the civilians making them targets of war.

For the second time:

1 - Stop behaving like the progeny of nazi Germany, like a morally depraved state,

2 - revoke the supremacist policy of physically eliminating unarmed palestinian civilians when they cross into the western half of their historical homeland

3 - and the whole palestinian armed struggle will immediately lose its entire meaning.

It's as simple as that.

That would be the Palestinians who want to finish the final solution

Again that would be the Palestinians who admit to targeting children

LIAR as the armed struggle has been going on since Mohamed instigated it in the 7C.

 

[Phoenall]

>>IDF incursion into Gaza.<< were due to rockets, mortars, bombings and kidnappings by groups like hamas and IJ.

So that makes it ok to kill hundreds of women and children. The Nazis used to claim that killing 10 innocent villagers by firing squad in Italy was justified because resistance partisans had killed one German.

Just so you know, using the Nazi comparison just makes you look foolish.
Which is why I encourage you to keep using it.

Using a computer to post on here makes them look foolish, after all the lies told and found out

 

[Phoenall]

Originally posted by toastman
Actually, the Palestinians need to

1) Stop launching rockets into Israel

2) renounce terrorism

3) make a promise that they will never attack Israel unprovoked

It's as simple as that.

Toastman,

This is the moment we are faced with a tragic, bloody catch-22:

Palestinians don't do what you tell them to do (end their armed struggle) because Israel doesn't do what I tell them to do either (stop killing palestinians).

And Israel doesn't do what I tell them to do (stop killing palestinians) because Palestinians don't do what you tell them to do (end their armed struggle).

One thing to remember in all this it was not the Jews that started the killings but the muslims. Once you understand and realise this then you will see were all the blame lies and take the correct steps to have it stopped. So until the Palestinians abide by the Un resolutions, Geneva conventions and International law Israel is not obliged to do any other but defend from any PERCIEVED attacks, aggression or belligerence using as much force as is appropriate at the time. The Palestinians are aware of the rules and constantly infringe them hoping to raise another BLOOD LIBEL because the IDF carried out the threats of armed retaliation to those infringements.

 

[Phoenall]

Let's hear it straight from the horse's mouth, toastman:

Interviewer: "Why didn't Hamas accept the last israeli peace proposal?"

Yassin: "That was a mockery disguised as a peace plan, an empty, meaningless proposal because the Zionists still didn't want to accept our right to live in our homeland."

Interview with Sheik Ahmed Yassin aired on CNN, don't remember the exact date

As I said, toastman, a sad, tragic catch-22.

And as INTERNATIONAL law and history shows it is not their homeland is it, it had not been arab muslim land for 1000 years. They were offered the chance to live in peace as full and equal partners in 1948 but instead chose war, violence, belligerence and bloodshed. So no catch 22 situation at all but a failure to realise that they are losing a little bit more every day.
But your quote is not valid as the person has an axe to grind and his own agenda, so of course he will be a good muslim and LIE about the Jews and Israel

 

[Phoenall]

Although it must be said that all israeli historians are in perfect agreement that Israel's shoot to kill policy preceded the beginning of the palestinian armed struggle by at least 3 years.

But it doesn't matter... the fact is Israel does use the armed struggle as an excuse for ethnic supremacism just like any other racial dictatorship in human history.

So regardless of its validity the palestinian armed struggle is indeed tremedously counterproducent and should be replaced by a peace movement for civil rights in their homeland.

But then we are back to the catch-22 again:

Who does what first?

While the Palestinian muslims policy to "KILL THE JEWS" started 1400 years before the resurrection of the JEWISH HOMELAND

 

[Phoenall]

Originally posted by aris2chat
Blowing up discos, markets and restaurants full of civilians is not morally depraved?
Putting explosives on children and teaching them to kill jews is not morally depraved?

It is indeed.

There are few things in this world more gruesome than a palestinian suicide bombing.

A horrendous spectacle of body parts flying everywhere followed by the most terrifying shouts and scream a human being can hear.

A savagery beyond description that traumatizes anyone unfortunate enough to witness it for the rest of their lives.

But it's no more morally depraved than a state that has spent 65 years and counting murdering the natives of the land (including unarmed men, women, even grannies and children) to preserve an artificial ethnic majority in 60%-80% of their historical homeland.

What abouit the moral bankrupts that LIE about the reality, yes I mean you!. The Jews are not murdering the natives at all, they are killing armed terrorists who are mostly illegal immigrants. We only have the enemies word that they are unarmed, and in view of their constant use of pallywood productions and faked pictures that word is worthless. As is the word of anyone that relies on it as evidence. The borders of Israel are just that, and like all borders are policed. Any illegal immigrants face the penalty for getting caught crossing those borders, whether it is prison and then deportation or shooting makes no matter the INTERNATIONAL LAW is clear on the outcome.

 

[Phoenall]

Likud has led Israel into a dead end. The Arab opposition, supported by the overwhelming majority of UN member states is too strong to allow Israel to annex Judea and Samaria, the one-state solution that the religious right has pushed for with increasing candor for many years.

At the same time, Jews are about to become a minority in Israel if the Occupied Territories are taken into account. This is going to lead to a crisis which the USA will not be able to prevent.

There is no military solution to the conflict, despite the overwhelming military power of the IDF, for which America is paying four million dollars a day. The Arab world is too underdeveloped politically and fractured socially to work out a solution at this time.

Another generation of the status quo may well result in the regional hegemony of a nuclear-armed Iran. Israel cannot survive a nuclear war. It is too small and its population will abandon Tel Aviv for Crown Heights. Previous Crusader states have lasted a couple of centuries. Israel will not have that luxury.

Which is why Israel has no intentions of ever annexing the west bank, they are aware of the demographics and problems in making the Palestinians Israeli citizens. BUT there is one fact that everyone should be made aware of and that is that the UN in accepting Israel as a nation passed into INTERNATIONAL LAW that no nation or person can alter the status of Israel in any way and that it will for ever exist as the NATIONAL HOME OF THE JEWS the only Jewish sovereign nation in the world. So the arab muslims can mass murder all the Jews but the land of Israel remains Jewish .

 

[Phoenall]

Likud has led Israel into a dead end. The Arab opposition, supported by the overwhelming majority of UN member states is too strong to allow Israel to annex Judea and Samaria, the one-state solution that the religious right has pushed for with increasing candor for many years.

At the same time, Jews are about to become a minority in Israel if the Occupied Territories are taken into account. This is going to lead to a crisis which the USA will not be able to prevent.

There is no military solution to the conflict, despite the overwhelming military power of the IDF, for which America is paying four million dollars a day. The Arab world is too underdeveloped politically and fractured socially to work out a solution at this time.

Another generation of the status quo may well result in the regional hegemony of a nuclear-armed Iran. Israel cannot survive a nuclear war. It is too small and its population will abandon Tel Aviv for Crown Heights. Previous Crusader states have lasted a couple of centuries. Israel will not have that luxury.

Jews in Israel proper make up over 75% of the population. The West Bank is different, but I don't think Israel will annex it.

I don't really understand your projection for Israel if a nuclear war breaks out. You really think a country like Iran would commit suicide by nuking another country?
Sorry to inform you but, Israel is going nowhere. The best thing to do for all the haters is to accept this fact. Or not, I actually don't care.

If any Islamic nation decided to use nuclear weapons against Israel then they would be committing suicide. Israel would unleash an arsenal of nuclear warheads on the nation and any that showed signs of supporting that nation. This would render the majority of the M.E a nuclear wasteland littered with the bones of hundreds of millions of muslims. The rest of the world would also retaliate to the use of nuclear weapons and the nations left intact would be invaded and their leaders removed from office. The UN would bar all Islamic nations from its councils and would pass resolutions against them ever gaining nuclear weapons again.

 

[Phoenall]

Likud has led Israel into a dead end. The Arab opposition, supported by the overwhelming majority of UN member states is too strong to allow Israel to annex Judea and Samaria, the one-state solution that the religious right has pushed for with increasing candor for many years.

At the same time, Jews are about to become a minority in Israel if the Occupied Territories are taken into account. This is going to lead to a crisis which the USA will not be able to prevent.

There is no military solution to the conflict, despite the overwhelming military power of the IDF, for which America is paying four million dollars a day. The Arab world is too underdeveloped politically and fractured socially to work out a solution at this time.

Another generation of the status quo may well result in the regional hegemony of a nuclear-armed Iran. Israel cannot survive a nuclear war. It is too small and its population will abandon Tel Aviv for Crown Heights. Previous Crusader states have lasted a couple of centuries. Israel will not have that luxury.

Most neutral observers agree, it is this group that haven't a clue.

BULLCRAP most neutral observers agree that the blame is equally proportional to the religious and moral teaching of the various factions. The muslims will never overrun Israel as INTERNATIONAL LAW prevents this from happening, just as INTERNATIONAL LAW prevents Israel from annexing the west bank. The problem lies in the BLOOD LIBELS, fabrications, lies and propaganda put about by ISLAMONAZIS following in Husseinis footsteps. The fact remains that it is the arab muslim belligerence that keeps them encased in a ring of steel, and by simply pledging to stop all forms of violence and belligerence they could be free of Israeli occupation. The rest of their demands could be met in the fullness of time, but their own people in Egypt and Jordan do not want them to be armed

 

[Phoenall]

Most neutral observers agree, it is this group that haven't a clue.

Agree that what?? Israel will be overwhelmed by Arabs??

If they do go, it will likely be with a bang.

If Iran attacks Israel, it will effect the palestinians as well. Everything to the east will suffer from the fall out. Iran just want a seat at the table and thinks this is a way to leverage a foot in the doorway.

The Iranian leadership have already said that they do not care if 10 million muslims in and around Israel die when they deploy their nuclear weapons as long as Jews die as well. With a mentality like that the rest of the N.E. should be coming together to fight of the Iranian plans of conquest at all cost.

 

[Lipush]

Hamas and the PLO are corrupt, yes, just as Likid and every Israeli government has been disgusting;y corrupt and criminal, since the inception.

But they are still of the Palestinians. If every Hamas and Fatah member was magically vanished from Palestine today, Palestinians would demand someone stand up to protect them from the worst excesses of the IDF.

And sadly those people, once with power, would probably become corrupt.

They are still the leaders in the area.
As with any organisation, if there is encouragement for good governance and punishment for bad they would evolve in the right way.

That said, looking at our own leaders, it is a bloody long journey.

It's LIKUD, not LIKID.

Geezez

Ooops.

I will do as you say and spell it Likit in future.
Didn't have you down as a pedant.

Not about being pedant.

Problem is, you say something in Hebrew with a slight difference, you get an awkward meaning.

(Don't ask)